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IMLP Training Wk June 13 - 19

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  • @Marc Taylor It's definitely good to get out the and do some climbing.  Not sure if you are talking about all the strong athletes going to LP or the climbing there.  As for the latter, the climbs in LP grade wise I don't think are that crazy, this coming from a guy who last did the course around 230 lbs with a 5034-12-30 gearing.    Just come in with proper gearing and have good EN execution. I could still use more watts or gearing at that weight but I can finish.
    @peter lautenslager Nice race in tough conditions and congrats on the qualification. 
  • @peter lautenslager - congrats on the CQ @ 'cuse! Being able to execute the "death march" better than others if needed in LP will be your weapon, now you've got good training in it!

    @Trish Marshall - I've had some issues with new PT cleats in the past... put bike on a stand and spend some time clipping in and out to see if that wears in the cleats a bit... 

    just starting the week, hopefully the monsoon thunderstorms yesterday wiped out the humidity here, for a day at least. 
  • @Gordon Cherwoniak ... getting comfortable with the hills, mostly referring to all the athletes in the forum ... always amazed at what everyone is doing ... I am gaining steam but still in awe of everyone's accomplishments.  As time draws near to the start ... trusting the process and getting ready for the day.

    MarcT
  • Hey everybody!  ...been peeping in on the comments & training in this thread.  @Marc Taylor I too am in awe of you guys!  I'm new to EN and am still figuring it out, but have been doing the work as much as work/life allows.  I just read that the temp of Mirror Lake was in the 50's?!  wow... I do hope it warms up a bit by then.  I too am trusting the process while getting ready and trying to NOT over-train/over-think, yet still prepare.  See y'all there.

    Edrika
  • I was there and the temp was more like 68 and very comfortable.
  • okay 68 then I hope it does not warm up too much until race day. That a very nice temp for a full suit, the only thing i own.
  • how's everyone's training going this week? I think we've got this thread as P sequestered Mariah for 2 days of business planning now that he's flying solo on running this great community of ours. So that means no new thread of the week until she pops up again. 

    Monday got in a shorter swim & run
    Tuesday got in a good swim & run 2x1mi intervals. Intervals felt much harder than past weeks, but got them done at the right speeds. Then I look at the plan and see i am doing the wrong intervals  :o

    guess i need to READ before executing!
  • edited June 21, 2017 6:12PM

    Ok, lets switch gears a bit a talk transitions.  

    Transitions have become something that I have become better and better at over the years and I’m amazed at the amount of time people squander in T1 & T2.  It’s a black hole of time for many.  Slow is smooth and smooth is fast but that doesn’t mean that slow equals taking your sweet time.  I think psychologically it feels like a pause in the action - but the clock is ticking!

    This weekend at Syracuse 70.3 I had the fastest total transition times in my AG.  The time savings when compared to others is eye opening: 

    • I was :01 second faster then 1st place (OK, that didn’t help me much) However - 
    • 2:34 faster then 3rd, 
    • 2:36 faster then 4th, 
    • 3:29 faster then 5th and a 
    • A whopping 6:00 faster then 6th place.  

    You can’t buy a set of aero wheels, aero helmet or a super bike that will save you that kind of time in a 70.3

    I don’t think there is much technique to it.  It’s pretty much get in, get your stuff and get out.  Everything else you can do on the bike or run as you are moving.  I realize that a full Ironman has more complex transitions.  IMLP has that long path up from Mirror lake to the oval (don’t walk, jog) and grabbing your bags etc, However they also have volunteers that you can basically throw stuff at, say thank you and be on your way.   The same concept remains - get in and get out!

    The best things about a fast transition:

    1. Its free!
    2. You don’t have to be a great athlete
    3. You don’t have to eat right
    4. You don’t have to lose weight
    5. You don’t have to be rich
    6. You don’t have to get up at 5:00AM to practice
    7. You don’t have to be a seasoned pro
    8. Save more time then a set of $3,000 aero wheels 
  • You forgot:

    9. They may buy you a ticket to Hawaii.  
    10. It's the same time savings as 5 watts on the bike and 700 times easier than adding 5 watts to your FTP. 

    Agree you don't have to get up at 5am to practice, but you should definitely practice. Think about the things you do in a race that you don't do in training - quickly get wetsuit down to waist, buckle your aero helmet, get on bike with shoes clipped in, etc. 

    I don't disagree with much of what RnP say, but slow-is-smooth-is-bs. How about, "If you want a fast transition time, you have to transition fast!" ??

    Stopping at a porto is not an option unless you're already having GI issues, in which case your competitive race is likely over anyways.  Tell your family to stay away from TA because that's where you're really racing. No hugs, no hi-fives. Only TC can get away with this because he's earned the right to continue his constant PDA thing with Heather. And his Kona ticket is already punched. 

    The key for me is simplification. No moving parts. Virtually nothing to do but run. Everything that can go on my bike is on my bike. 

    If you are racing for some time/place goal and T1 plan has the words "slowly," "jog," or "sit" in it, throw it out and start over. Assuming reasonable weather, my plan in LP will be: unpiz wetsuit, let the strippers strip, run to my bag which is in a location I know intimately, open (un-knotted!) bag while still running, remove and don helmet, enter tent, ask vol to run with me, hand bag and wetsuit to him, buckle helmet while still running, call out bib # because a vol may actually un-rack my bike for me, grab bike, and continue running until the line. 

    It ain't rocket science. But I guarantee that 99% of folks will sit in T1. 





  • THIS is all great.. @John Withrow reviewed my LP race last year and sees a free minute + in my Transitions... I'll be working for it!

    one thing about IM.. it is NOT always clear if you can have shoes on bike or not in T1.
    at LP last year I did not because of the sketchy bike out. I now feel better about it and plan on practicing it on Thursday along with my Keene Descent practice... BUT in IM-Moo last year, while the athlete guide said yes, at the race briefings they were saying no. I found one of the referees in transition in the AM and he said "no."

    In LP i popped on shoes in Transition, ran out on the oval (it's concrete & i was careful not to change direction) then on the grass i could run faster... 


  • Good Morning...I took the Monday post camp off and yesterday...swim only...I did 4k yards...mixed of 400/300/200/...it was okay but I need to get in open water soon...plan to do that this week ...generally feeling good...I have low expectation this week...then a subtle build to final RR in LP week of July 3rd....I like the transition discussion.... @peter lautenslager what were your T-times?
  • edited June 21, 2017 6:05PM
    I've got all kinds of things to clean up in transitions.  Perhaps next year I'll make the switch but I like to ride in socks, always have so I'll have to sit and put on my socks and shoes.  I will be looking tosimplify things as much as possible.  

    2700M and 30' run on Monday.  Tuesday was a major fatigue and another off day. 
    140' run this morning as I have to move the RR to Friday,
  • This week and next are a bit of a mess, so I am going to hack as best as possible.

    - On Monday, I did a light spin and some stretching after the EN LP camp.  My legs were pretty well fatigued.  Tuesday, I got back into things with an easy 6-mile run and then a very short OWS - I had two kids graduations yesterday - 8th grade and HS, so it was a hectic day.  Today, I must have been still tired from the weekend, because I fell asleep before setting the alarm last night, and then woke up late.  Did a short VO2 set.  Won't have time today for a second workout...
    - Tomorrow, there is a 50-mile ride with people at my job, so I will sneak away from the office for a few hours to ride with clients.  I will have to get up early to drive my bike into the city, so I will not get an early run in.  I will miss the long run scheduled for Thursday for the first time this year...
    - Friday, I will swim and run.
    - Saturday, I will follow the schedule
    - Sunday, I will do the weekly long run.  Then, I need to jump on a 13-hour flight that morning.
    - Next Sunday through Thursday, I will be in hotels and airplanes for work.  However, I am shooting to get in three long runs and three swims - but this is an ambitious goal.
    - I am back to NY/CT late Thursday evening, and I am sure I will need a few days to adjust to the jet lag.
    - Hoping to get my training back on track during the long-holiday weekend and then work hard until we can taper for the race.

    @Peter Lautenslager, @Michael Roberts and @Scott Dinhofer - Thanks for the discussion on T1/T2.  I like the perspective that transitions as free speed opportunities.  By the way, Coach P said this weekend that we could not pre-clip our shoes at LP T1 because of the congestion exiting the transition zone.  I am not sure if that is a game-time decision by the race planners, but I thought I should convey what I heard this weekend.

    Good skills to everyone's training this week!
  • edited June 21, 2017 4:37PM
    Syracuse: I was 3:15 T1 (there is along run from the swim out to the bikes)  1:39 for T2
    Placid 2015 T1 - 6:16  T2 2:55

    As far as I know you cannot clip your shoes at LP.  Could not in 2015.  I prefer to pre-clip my shoes (I ride in bare feet) but it doesn't change much if you can't.  Do as Mike Roberts said.  Grab your stuff on the run, dump the wet suit, helmet on , shoes on, get your bike and go!

    Regarding socks.  I do change into socks for the run.  I go through a little mantra as I do it.  "Sock on, shoe on, sock on shoe on", hat, sunglasses, grab my race belt - go!  Fix everything as you run out of T2
  • @peter lautenslager I am same as you except after "sock/shoe on" it's grab the gallon ziplock bag with my belt, hat, glasses, Coach P racesaver bag, etc. & go.  The ziplock contents get emptied & applied on course.  It makes for crappy race photos coming out of T2, but I'm not buying those anyway.
  • +2 on the "go bag" - everything i need on the course is in that, get out of dodge (er the tent) quick... 
    with you on the sox, now I'll be chanting that in my sleep. 

    From the freshly published Athlete's guide for LP, page 7 - "7. Helmets, bike shoes, and other cycling gear may be placed on the bike or in a transition bag. Shoes and shirt must be worn at all times."

    Kind of contradictory, if my bike shoes are on my bike, what other shoes am I wearing "at all times?"

    I would not leave anything on the bike but my shoes, too easy to get helmet dumped... only possibility would be arm warmers on my aerobars (old sox with the toes cut off so i can trash them at the first aid station)

    At LP last year i was 5:29 & 3:34
    goal is to get T1 down to 5 and T2 down to 3

  • Great discussion about Transitions.... Every second does count... 4.5 minutes is worth 10 seconds per mile on the Marathon.... No One ever finished an Ironman Marathon and said yeah I could have averaged 10 seconds per mile faster for the entire 26.2 miles... But many people have said I could easily take 5 minutes or more out of my transitions...

    To me the saying "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" pertains to anything you do that if you screw it up and have to do it twice will take longer than if you just slowed it down a little and did it right the first time- think getting on or off the bike, buckling unbuckling helmets, socks, shoes, etc... the remainder of my time in transition is spent at redline and that means moving as fast as possible (running hard I dont care about HR)  from swim exit to bags, from bike dismount to bags, etc... Once on the bike, moving and clipped in, I will breath, drink, relax, then go to work but all while moving... on the run I will do sock, shoes, carry watch, belt, and bag with everything else and put myself together while moving somewhat fast but similar to the bike I need just a few slow moments to recoup from the T run....

    Here is some data to think about from my Ironman Races...I dont think its coincidence I started to KQ at the same time I started to win a few fastest AG transitions...  If you look at the top ten guys they usually have the top ten transitions...
    6 KQ's 
    1- First Place Finish at IMLP
    3- Second Place Finish's
    2 -Third Place Finish's
    Swim- AG fastest swim = NEVER
    Run- AG fastest run = NEVER
    Bike- AG fastest bike = 2 times
    Transitions- AG fastest transitions = 8 times

    Ironically my only Ironman Win at IMLP had ZERO first place splits , including the transitions....

    To throw down the Gauntlet .... IMLP 2015 my T1 was 4:36- 4th in AG and T2 was 2:21- 2nd in AG....
  • You guys have motivated me to get even faster in transition!  @Scott Dinhofer you got me at T1  @tim cronk you've set the bar!
  • @peter lautenslager - that may be the only place i get you all day!!
    @tim cronk - noting those #s!!! we'll talk in LP about the process more!

    training update.. 
    hitting it well. Did another weekly FTP test yesterday as per above, and with another week under my belt post Al Camp, I switched back to the Tri bike and got a higher result. Over the next few weeks I will be doing my FTP Tuesday WKO as a 2x20 FTP test and use a best guess average of those#s to nail in my FTP... 

    trying to "ease" back into a solid long running week of over 45 miles (50 would be nice, but it never seems to happen)
    took yesterday afternoon off as legs hurt from the FTP test, ran 16 this AM, going to take a stab at 4 later on this afternoon as a split run
  • edited June 22, 2017 6:08PM
    @Scott Dinhofer - only Superman does a weekly FTP test!  Superman and Dinhofer......can't argue with that intensity wko once a week while you're in your long bike IM plan.......I'll be doing something similar and seeing how relevant that is to my 5 hour power as I progress through the plan........I have found that my FTP and test is one thing and often times my 5 hour power another thing......

    SS
  • edited June 22, 2017 6:56PM
    I have found that my FTP and test is one thing and often times my 5 hour power another thing......

    @Shaughn Simmons  ^^THIS^^ is exactly the querie I just made of P in my Micro thread... they are very much indeed, thanks for the kudos, I am happy to at least see one end of the needle move up
  • Great info on transitions.  Will be pondering how to do better than younger Trish!

    Took Monday off to get caught up at home post Placid camp.  Ran Tuesday, ftp bike intervals, short brick and 1800y swim yesterday, and long run today.  I'm still having knee issues and got a plan moving forward to run more every other day as my pt requested.  Todays run was a slog.  Hot, slow, no z2 to be had and 4 times I had to walk mid mile to bring my hr down.  I came home, showered and immediately took a nap.  Which happens NEVER post long run.  I was wiped out.  I have my party pants on tap after I finish typing this!  Temps are supposed to drop tomorrow so I'm hoping for a better long-ish run come Sunday!
  • @Edrika Gutierrez ... welcome to the team! Great place and that's what I've heard for the last year (just had my anniversary) trust the process! Watching threads and posts and learning about all the little details is valuable but the MOJO on race day with this group is unparalleled. 

    Been pretty true to training plan ... pushing myself harder than I ever have and expecting a great day for my first finish.

    Starting to heat up here in KS ... long run tonight 90 degrees and 88% humidity, UGH ... hoping for cooler weather for  rides this weekend. 

    Marc


  • Thanks @Marc Taylor !  I'll be needing some of that MOJO!  It's hard wondering if you're training enough, but not wanting to overtrain!  It's been pretty humid here in the DC region as well.  I was drenched after my long run.  Hoping for NO RAIN tomorrow morning so I can get this ride in.  Have a great weekend.

    Edrika
  • THIS is all great.. @John Withrow reviewed my LP race last year and sees a free minute + in my Transitions... I'll be working for it!

    one thing about IM.. it is NOT always clear if you can have shoes on bike or not in T1.
    at LP last year I did not because of the sketchy bike out. I now feel better about it and plan on practicing it on Thursday along with my Keene Descent practice... BUT in IM-Moo last year, while the athlete guide said yes, at the race briefings they were saying no. I found one of the referees in transition in the AM and he said "no."

    In LP i popped on shoes in Transition, ran out on the oval (it's concrete & i was careful not to change direction) then on the grass i could run faster... 


    I agree with @tim cronk and others said...  It's a long run from the water's edge to the Transition bags.  Run.  You will save 30-60 seconds just doing this vs the walkers/joggers.

    Keep your bag very simple.  Grab your helmet and shoes and go.  Toss your goggles and wetsuit to a volunteer.  Put your helmet on while running to your bike while screaming out your race number.  Glasses should be attached to your bike somewhere.  I'm pretty sure at LP, I kept my shoes in my bag, but I didn't put them on in transition, but just ran with them in my hand.  Don't leave them loose with your bike, because if all goes well, a volunteer will have already untracked your bike for you and have it in the aisle way.  Just before you exit transition, either ask a volunteer to hold your bike or lean it against the fence and put your shoes on then.  Very unlikely they let you have your shoes already clipped on your bike for safety reasons because of the very quick and steep downhill.  I figured it was safer and faster to run in bare feet than to sit down in the tent to put them on and then have to run slowly on cleats.

    BE CAREFUL GOING DOWN THE IMMEDIATE HILL OUT OF TRANSITION!!!  It might be the only hill in the entire world that I do not try to go down fast!  If you save 2 mins in T1, then wreck in the first 30 seconds of the bike leg, your race is over...

    As you enter T2, do not grab your T1 bag again (ask me why I know)...  They used to have them hanging on racks right near each other (one high and one low).  Use your brain and grab the correct one.

    T2 is simple because hopefully your bike shoes were left on your bike when you dismounted. Helmet off while running.  T2 bag open, socks and shoes on, grab go bag and leave.  Deal with everything else as you run.

    Good Luck everyone!!!
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