How do you refill your bike nutrition on the fly?

Stephen Cogger

This question is stemmed from @Francis Picard 's IMMT 2017 race plan. In the plan he mentioned refilling his powder based nutrition on the fly. With the great suggestion of filling bottles behind the seat with powder and refilling the BTA bottle with water and powder at aid stations. (If I understood correctly)

Historically I have always carried what I would need for the first loop and then stop at special needs and mix new bottles for the second loop. Since I am a middle of the pack guy, special needs is always a bit of a traffic jam.  It hasn't bothered me, just wondering if there is a more efficient method.

Does anyone have other good strategies for carrying nutrition that will nourish you for 112 miles of biking without having to stop at special needs and mix fresh bottles?

This year I am using Tailwind and plan on needing 5 bottles with 3 scoops each to get me through the bike. The first 3 I can start with. (1 BTA, and 2 on the frame)

And, I understand the concept of training with what will be on the course, maybe next year. I have not used Gatorade Endurance and it's too late to change now...

Thanks for any advice,

Steve

Mark Maurer

I use Scratch Labs and I mix up a concentrated bottle. I can mix it so that 4 oz of concentrate is enough to make 24 oz of drink. So as I get close to the aid stations I empty my BTA and then add 4 oz of concentrate (I have a bottle with 4 oz increments marked on the side so it's easy to see how much I'm putting in). When I get to the station I grab some water and fill the BTA and go on. I supplement with GE on the course so one bottle of concentrate is enough for an IM ride. 

Francis Picard

The way I do it is start the race with the BTA and on the downtube are filled with water and powder.

Behind the seat I have my powder in a bottle with lines so I know what is a portion.

Close to the aid station I empty my tube bottle into my BTA;

At the aid station I grab water that I put in the tube rack

Close to next aid station, my first refilled BTA bottle is almost done (on the IMMT course) so I can put powder first in my BTA, then I add some water, I keep the water to cool myself until the next aid station.

At the aid station, grab water again and keep going like that

I dont need to stop to do that, just have to be careful and stay on the right side before or after the aid station

Al Truscott

For the IM (the only time I'd need to refill anything special I was using), I used to fiddle with powder, water, extra bottles, and stuff in Bike Special needs. Last 6 years, I refill my bike nutrition by grabbing something from a volunteer at an aid station. Carbs are carbs; eliminate friction. If I need something else, like protein or electrolytes, well, those come in packages small enough to carry with me in a Bento Box or the equivalent.

Doug Sutherland

+1 with Al

admittedly, I do not love GE, I prefer Scratch too. But the hassle, weight, risk of crashing while mixing, (aerodynamic effects of many bottles?) all brought me to the conclusion: better to build a gut that can withstand most/all of what is on course rather than to run exclusively on a single beverage. I drink GE a lot, nearly every training day, as well as anything available (tailwind, scratch, etc). On race day I load the BTA and Ventum hydration with scratch (2.4L) and when I run out, I throw anything they have in there...

on on the topic, I have not found a suitable bento for my Ventum, so I wear a fanny pack loaded with bars. When that runs out I eat whatever they got.

Brian Smith

@Stephen Cogger
I am a big scratch labs user, but in trying to figure out how to mix and do whatever on my longer training rides posed to be a hassle, so I have now opted to just refill with what is available....just tried the new gatorade endurance formula and it is a learning curve for my stomach I can tell you that, so I hope to get used it in the next weeks...

Paul Curtin

Steve - between now and IMMT there's probably not enough time to practice anything different, so it may be best to still stop at special needs.  But going forward, I'd look at the super-concentrate option over powder; trying to fiddle with power on the fly seems risky, and if it's raining it will be a total mess

Doug Johnson

Something I have done in the past is create the super-concentrate as has been suggested, but take swigs of that throughout the race followed immediately by water.  Not as pleasant but it gets you out of the business of trying to mix magic potions on the bike.

Scott Alexander

My nutrition is completely separated from my hydration.

So I grab water only from the aid stations while moving (hopefully) and top off my BTA bottle. Drink anything left or pour over my body depending on the temps. Add my Nuun tablets while I'm moving (slower than full speed). Carry on.

Stephen Cogger

All great suggestions. I have done the super concentrate in the past and just filled the BTA with water. For some reason this year if I overdo the water my stomach has given me issues, so I am looking at mostly drinking mixed tailwind on the bike.

@Mark Maurer  I like the idea of mixing a super concentrate to squeeze into the BTA bottle at aid stations and marking the bottle so I know exactly how much to add. So right before an aid station add a squirt of the super concentrate, then at aid stations grab a water to squeeze in, pour over me, grab a banana and keep moving. That seems to be the smoothest and safest option. 

@Paul Curtin I agree, with race day a week away, I'm not looking at changing up my nutrition plan. Just searching for an efficient way of getting it all in. Most likely I'll stick to my special needs bag plan for this race and experiment in the future.

Jacklyn Moore

These are great ideas! I never thought to put powder in a bottle with lines! My mix won't super concentrate. It just turns to concrete in the bottom of the bottle. Can't wait to try!!!!

Larry Peters

Hi all, I'm doing my first 70.3 this Sunday. I've tried to read some of the race report things and I read the athlete guide, but I still have some questions (and I definitely need to spend more time reading the forums).

For a 70.3, if I can carry all my fluid on the bike, do you think that is faster than carrying 1 less bottle and getting a refill at an aid station? I want at least 3-4 full bottles to drink during the entire ride. I typically carry 4 bottles during race rehearsal just to be sure I don't run out (one bottle BTA ("Between the arms" for any other newbies; I just had to google that ), two bottles in cages behind my seatpost and one in my jersey pocket (but I now have another cage on my downtube if I want 4 bottles, so I wouldn't have to carry one in my jersey pocket)). I think I have higher than normal fluid requirements.

Before reading EN forums, I assumed it would be faster to carry all my fluid (probably 3 bottles) and not stop for refills (This is what I did on race rehearsals). But when I was reading a race report archive called "The Bottle/Computer/Tools/Race Wheels/Race Day Setup Thread," I got the impression that more people used aid stations to refill rather than carrying all their fluid (but maybe that was in the context of a full IM). After reading that, I realized that if I carried less water (2 bottles instead of 4, for example), my bike would be a fair bit lighter & have a bit less drag. But I've never gotten water from an aid station while riding.

Do the aid stations give fluid to you in a cup or a squeeze bottle?

Do you think the time lost slowing down to get water (or Gatorade endurance) at an aid station is gained back by only carrying 2 instead of 4 bottles (as a hypothetical number) and having less weight? I could see myself carrying 3 bottles, and only stopping at an aid station if I run out and need more fluid. Or I could carry 2 (less weight) and just plan to refill.

Also, in the same "The Bottle/Computer/Tools/Race Wheels/Race Day Setup Thread," archive it sounded like people discouraged use of the behind the seatpost bottle holder (for a number of reasons). Assuming I don't mind reaching back for my bottle (I've practiced this a lot during all long rides), and I can get my leg over it during transition (this can be a bit tough sometimes, actually), does a bottle on the downtube really have a chance at creating less drag than a bottle behind my seatpost? I guess the "X-wing" thing does add more weight than just a cage screwed directly to the frame....Thoughts: downtube vs. behind the seat for 1 bottle cage? 

(If feedback suggests I carry 3 bottles and avoid stopping at an aid station, then the downtube vs. behind the seat question is no longer applicable, because I'll need the behind the seat attachment to be able to carry 3 bottles).

Finally, regarding this Q & A Central forum, we should still try to ask relevant questions in the appropriate forum rather than just posting any and all questions here, right? (like sell stuff in classifieds, vs. selling stuff here)

Robert Sabo

I suggest going lighter and carrying some of your own (probably 2 bottles) to get you beyond the 1st aid station and then use the aid stations carefully.  You need to learn how to use a bike aid station and there is an article in the WIKI (link below).  Unless you take yourself and the water bottle options to a wind tunnel you won't know which set up is most aero.  The seat tube round bottle is probably one of the worst but many of us still use it because of it's convenience.  Also the aero difference is not that great anyway unless you are worried about seconds.

http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Perfecting+Your+Aid+Station+Technique

Larry Peters

Thanks so much for the advice @""Robert Sabo" !! I'll check out that wiki!

Satish Punna

Agree with the posts above- keep it simple.  Start out with 2-3 of your bottles and some gels or whatever for calories.  Once your bottles are down- get nutrition off the course, supplemented with the extra calories you have with you.  Then you can avoid the first aid station, avoid special needs, and titrate the hydration with whats available on course  depending on conditions (hotter= more water/electrolytes from the course).  Practice that on a couple of of your long rides.  As someone once told me awhile ago , a triathlon is not a good time to be attempting a chemistry experiment. 

M.S.Ironman

I have tried several different things but what works best for me is to train and 'get used' to what they have on the course.     I can survive an Ironman bike on GE.    I'm just super glad that Heed isn't the official anything because that stuff was gross.

scott dinhofer

agree with all above on using ON course nutrition and becoming expert at grabbing stuff at aid stations.. 
I previously did the 3 hr concentrated bottle of infinit with 2nd bottle in BSN, but switched to on course nutrition. Yes, gatorade can be repulsive, but not as bad as cough medicine. It's a friggin ironman.. 

The FASTEST way around the course is grabbing the stuff on the course, period. 

@Larry Peters - i would only do the race with 2 bottles on my bike.. the BTA bottle I drink from and the one stowed behind me that I am refilling it with.. that's it. those extra 2 bottles are a lot of weight & windage. 

Larry Peters

Sweet, thanks @Scott Dinhofer ! I raced with 2 bottles yesterday, refilling on the course went well, and I had a great race!

Paul Hough

What Al said.  I just pitch my bottle(s) at an aid station and grab a bottle of whatever they are offering. 

Gary Lewis

I used Infinit and mixed it to be more concentrated.  I carried two bottles of that.  In my BTB xlab torpedo, I kept my water and refilled that at the aid stations.  I would drink the Infint concentrate and wash it down with water and refill water at the aid stations which I used to refill the BTB.  No on course supplies needed other than water.

Sheila Leard

@Stephen Cogger
 I believe it's important to have fresh water on board in case its hot or you are nibbling on real food and /or chews. If you have a bento box on your frame buy the Tailwind individual pouches, cut them open and put in your bento box. Before the aid station pour the powder to the BTA, grab a water fill it. Grab another water for the frame. Practice this. The individual pouches are handy. Skratch and OSMO also sell them. I've done this by carefully rolling thru the aid station. 

Jacklyn Moore

I am LOVING this thread!
Here's a stupid beginner question. What kind of "bottle" are you using when you start out? A store bought water bottle with home nutrition or a branded sports bottle? Do you have trouble keeping the course bottle in your cages? How do you keep them in? 

Paul Hough

@Jacklyn Moore - For training, I use Camelback and Polar bottles...at ~$10 each I don't toss them.  For racing, I start away with 'throw-away' bottles...the cheap ones I pick up left and right at race give-aways, camp giveaways, prior races, etc.  I don't have any qualms tossing them and replacing with whatever bottle they hand me during the race.  If they are somewhat nice, I'll take the last 2 I picked up during the ride, clean them, and save them for my throw-aways in a future race. 

Jacklyn Moore

@Paul Hough- Thank you. That makes sense. 

Shaughn Simmons

Here is how I do it for a 112 mile ride on race day:

I use GE but this can be done for any nutrition of your choice.

1)  I load up the front horizontal bottle with regular strength

2) I have two, 26 ounces bottles behind my seat with triple strength GE in them.

3) When I arrive in T1, I down 24 ounces of GE before mounting the bike.

4) As needed I take hand ups of WATER only from the bike aid stations, one at the beginning which I use to fill the bottle up front 2/3 full.  Then one at the end that I drink and/or pour on my helmet if I need cooling.

5) Once I pass the aid station, I reach back and use 1/3 of my concentrate and add to the front horizontal bottle.

6) That gives me 8 bottles from the time I have left T1.  At ~2 bottles/hour, if needed, I can take a few hand ups of On Course nutrition at the end.

This keeps it simple and keeps things rolling relatively smoothly for me during a long day.

SS

Jacklyn Moore

@Shaughn Simmons
Does the triple strenth GE desolve on it's own or do you have to warm it up? Any issues with the powder turning to a brick in the bottom of the bottle?

Thank you!

Shaughn Simmons

@Jacklyn Moore
No issues, very fine powder and high solubility.  Shake it up good when you make it......

SS

Satish Punna

@Shaughn Simmons - any GI issues downing 24oz straight out of the swim?  I'd like to try that but worry as my HR is usually so high out of the water it may not digest properly

Shaughn Simmons

@Satish Punna

In a140.6 I never go anaerobic on the swim.  Staying under that threshold should allow you to drink liquid calories in T1.  If I am exiting the water and in T1 with an HR so high that I cannot process liquid calories then I may be burning too many matches way up front for the long day ahead. 

I can't emphasize the importance of placing the long swim right before your long bike during RR1 and RR2 to realize the impacts on nutrition, HR, and to practice/dial in the nutrition.

I weigh between 170-175 lbs on race day and need 24 ounces.....you may need to adjust for your needs.

Satish Punna

@Shaughn Simmons good points- Although I don't go near anaerobic on any swims, my HR at the start of a 70.3 bike is definitely well above 'optimum nutrition' zone, and can take awhile to settle. 

During my one and only 140.6 I was so cold on the bike my HR was 90 (I kid you not) so I cant draw from experience there.  Definitely will try a swim/bike brick as you suggest.  I like your plan- and it allows me to carry enough of my own nutrition for the entire race with only 3 bottles. 

Shaughn Simmons

@Satish Punna

I am referencing a 140.6.....a 70.3 is a whole different ball game.  I have done more than 30 HIMS  (don't confuse volume with speed because I am setting no records),.....my intensity is higher during those events.  I come out of the water, go straight to the bike, drink nothing in T1 and start managing my HR down once on the bike then fueling with liquid calories......