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Scott Schneider Official Coach Thread

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  • Ok, this is part two..part one is above.
    1. I went to your Strava profile (here) online. Thanks for telling me about it. Crazy thing though... THERE ARE NO REAL BIKE WORKOUTS. I see you did Oceanside, and a few 20 mile rides...but nothing close to 4 or 5 hours per the training plan. I am hoping that this is just an error / uploading issue. No way you could be ready for an Ironman when riding less than 45 miles a week. Let me know.

    2. Since the only real rides I have are Oceanside and IMSR, I pulled them up. 

    Oceanside:
    • First Hour HR: 131 bpm
    • Avg HR: 135 bpm
    IMSR
    • First Hour HR: 137 bpm
    • Avg HR: 135 bpm

    Notes: 
    • You rode harder at IMSR than you did at Oceanside, despite it being longer.
    • You started the first hour way to hot at IMSR, pegging your HR high.
    • Your HR was dropping all day (vs building) which really sets you up for a tough day (hard to turn that around). 


    Based on your Nutrition Plan and your Race Execution, I am not so sure of how much of our materials you read / steps you followed. I feel super bad for you as this is 100% avoidable. 

    Please let me know on the bike stuff. My ability to fulfill the first time finish guarantee is dependent on you actually following the plan. 

    Thanks!

    ~ Coach P
  • edited May 25, 2018 5:00AM
    @Coach Patrick 
    I really don't care about the first time finish guarantee, that is not why I came to EN. I apologize if that is the impression I am conveying. I just really want to finish an Ironman. I did not follow the plan as well as I should have to ensure a finish. I won't make excuses because you undoubtedly have many athletes you coach who have far busier schedules than I do, but I did cut some workouts short and missed a few as well. I did post a race plan, I have been in the forums, and I printed and reviewed the articles in the Wiki including the race execution plan. I obviously still have work to do to get myself ready, and I appreciate your advice and the resources you have created with EN.
    For my long rides, I would usually do the first 2-3 hours on the Computrainer where I could ensure I was hitting the correct numbers based on the plan. I would then switch bikes and go outside for the remaining 2 hours because three hours seemed to be the max I could stand being on the trainer. My first race rehearsal was replaced by Oceanside. Full disclosure, I didn't get in the second race rehearsal, so my max bike ride length was 5 hours not 6. I'm not sure they all transferred over to Strava between switching bikes and computers.
    I felt like Infinit was a good choice for me because I have used it successfully in my last two 70.3's and have been using it in training, but I will order myself some GE online and begin training with it for Arizona. I am no fan of orange Gatorade but it can't taste any worse than Infinit after five hours. At least it will be cold....
    What are your thoughts on Arizona 70.3 in October as prep for the full? Looks like it is still open.
  • edited May 25, 2018 10:45AM
    Scott - I totally get it. I’m not trying to be a jerk either, believe it or not I’ve had people not ride longer than 90 minutes and then want their money back when Iron Man didn’t work out. My broader point is that it’s harder to help you if I can’t see the collective data. In other words, I need to be able to see what your training look like so I can compare what you did on race day to what you prepared for. The average athlete just has a lot of long rides on Strava, so if your long rides live in different places then it will be helpful to see where they are aggregated. Is that in training Peaks?

     Part of my value for you as an athlete is being able to do that analysis. So let me know.

    The infinIT to Gatorade transition is not an uncommon one. I just had a conversation yesterday with another athlete doing the same thing after similar results. The part that doesn’t add up on race day is how much you lose one swimming in IRONMAN in terms of fluid. You are starting the bike dehydrated and we need to offset that is soon as possible. The sports drink full of calories fundamentally undermines the process. 

    I do like the idea of you having a race before the big show to put your new nutrition plan into place. So I say yes...And if it’s easier, we can reimburse you for that one as it’s within the calendar year timeline.

    Remember the Gatorade has orange, lemon lime, and Cherry flavors. Nothing taste good after four hours but at least you get some variety!

  • edited May 25, 2018 5:43PM

    @Coach Patrick

    Strava seems to be the most accurate. At some point I set up Garmin connect to download to TP, but I have ever really looked at it until this week. There isn't much there.

    In Strava, for example, on March 21, I did the first three hours in Trainer Road (2018 IM Wk 13 Sat L1) I then switched bikes and did 1:32 outside. It looks like two separate workouts, but they were back-to-back. March 27, 2:45 on Trainer Road (2018 IM Wk 14 Sat L1) followed by 1:37 outside. Similar April 13. April 17 was my 3-hour run, April 18 indoor/outdoor combo bike ride again, etc. I don't see any bike workouts past April 18 which makes no sense. Garmin also says I only rode my bike 7 miles total in February, so clearly there is an issue... I'm really sorry it is confusing.

    If my math is right, two bottles of GE per hour on the bike equals 360cal and 620mg of sodium. It will take a lot of practice to learn to handle that much GE. For the run, I assume you estimate how many cups to take at each aid station based on approximate quantity/cup? When should I do my sweat test?

    Since the full is basically on the same course, I think Arizona 70.3 is a good place for me to test everything out. I have family in Mesa, so we stay with them.

    I feel ready to get back to work, so I was planning to start a new run durability plan next week unless you have a different recommendation.

  • Thanks for this. One thing that might help is unlocking your training log so I can see summary data...

    Here's how: http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/Default.aspx?topic=Strava+Central

    Again, finding a way to make sure all the data "gets" to your log is critical. It becomes a learning tool for us; without it we are trying to make decisions for improvement off of only half of the information. We "might" be right but would be much nicer if we could KNOW we were on the right track!

    Yes, the GE takes time...so start with 1.5 bottles an hour...not an issue, and build up. On  the run we only take one cup (4oz of GE) at a station. You can't handle more...this is why bike fluids are critical. 

    Sweat test can be on a nice 2.5 hour ride, so call that mid June? I want a few rides of 2-3 hours first to shake out the cobwebs, etc. 

    Races
    • 10/21/2018 IM AZ 70.3
    • 11/18/2018 IM AZ
    Plans
    • On 5/28/2018 Load the -- Run Durability 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 6/24/2018
    • On 6/25/2018 Load the Intermediate Bike Focus Block, 6 Weeks to end on 8/5/2018
    • On 8/6/2018 Load the EN*Full to end on 11/18/2018
    • On 11/19/2018 Load the -- Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 12/16/2018
    • On 12/17/2018 Load the -- Run Durability 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 1/13/2019
    • On 1/14/2019 Load the -- Run Durability 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 2/10/2019
    Coach Notes

    We go Run Durability Program for now to get your legs back, but please replace 2 runs with bikes....just easy time. Then we get into Bike Focus for some volume (nicer weather now!) and then into the Full plan. 

    Let me know what you think!

    ~ Patrick
  • Thanks, Coach. Sounds good.
    I think I unlocked my Strava data. Let me know if it doesn't work. 

  • Scott, thanks for unlocking it. I have dug in and can use this as a tool for syncing training with expectations. As I mentioned before, there's just not a lot of training in there as compared to a normal Ironman cycle.  We usually recommend 14-16 hours in the peak weeks, but you only cracked 11 hours on three occasions. 



    Usually week 15 (camp week) is a big double bike weekend, and then weeks 16 and 18 each have a Race Rehearsal (2.4 mile swim Friday, 112 bike + 1 hour run on Saturday. All of this is  designed to put the finishing, race-specific touches on your fitness.  

    If those workouts are "out there" and didn't make it into Strava, maybe you can manually upload them. Moving forward it's nice to have a "complete" sense of what you did last time so we can modify, etc. 

    Per the above chart, I would argue you had Half IM fitness heading into a Full IM. 

    So now, onwards! I hope the RDP is treating you well...keep me posted!

    ~ Coach P
  • edited June 27, 2018 2:29PM

    @CoachPatrick,

    Started the first week of the Bike Focus block. FTP is down about 10 watts, but not surprising since I haven't really done much riding since Santa Rosa. I have elected not to do Arizona 70.3 and just focus all my attention on the full. I felt like Oceanside threw me out of my groove preparing for IMSR, and I definitely don't want to repeat that experience. I will have to use the RR to test out the Gatorade Endurance.

    My biggest challenge right now is a new one for me - total and complete lack of motivation to train for triathlon. I don't know what my deal is but I told my wife if I wasn't already registered for IMAZ I don't know what I would be doing. Bleh.

  •  Good call on the 70.3. Sounds like you are a little burned out my friend. Nothing wrong with a little break so you can re-energize. Sometimes people get physically over trained, other times it is mental. This sounds like the latter. 

    Good news is, since you have already done an Iron Man you can afford to take some downtime. I strongly urge you to do so even though you will want to keep training. Your October and November will thank you.
  • @Coach Patrick that sounds about right. I have been staying very active but just mixing it up, and it has been a good mental break. This week I did a couple runs, some indoor rowing, an open water swim, a bunch of core work, and bodyweight/kettlebell. When should I re-focus on my training program?
  • Good!! Probably 8/6 with the launch of the EN*FULL plan. Until then stay loose and keep one decent run (80’ ish) and decent bike (2.5 hours). Rest as needed. 
  • @Coach Patrick 
    I am jumping back in to the EN*Full plan this week. I have been experiencing a lot of just general fatigue over the last month, which may be why I have not been super motivated to train. I am going to spend the next week or so trying to cut back on caffeine and clean up my diet to see if that makes a difference. If not, may be time to go get checked out. 

    I did the 5k run test today. I felt like I didn't have any gas in the tank, and I struggled to keep a slow pace even for me, averaging a 9:34 pace. My HR average was only 152, so I probably should have pushed harder, but just didn't have it in me for some reason. 

    No extra stress, changes in diet or lack of sleep, so not sure what's up. I would appreciate any suggestions you may have.

  •  Thanks for being so frank. It’s very hard to say exactly what the cause of that kind of fatigue could be. I agree that getting some blood work done as critical as it’s possible there is something more macro at play here. Are usually recommend that athletes double down on the sleep and reduce their training to just one session a day, keeping that aerobic. We need something to do but we don’t need to put any expectations on it. Another words, we want to keep the fire burning but we’re not trying to do anything else with it. 

    Aside from your run speed, have you seen any other changes that have you thinking there’s deeper for Teagan normal? Such as power or difficulty holding pieces in the water? Do you have any other fatigue symptoms outside of training? Such as no desire to get out of bed? How is your mood during the day? Are you still a super happy guy or are you Captain grumpy pants?
  • @Coach Patrick the best way to describe it is I felt like I was missing the last few gears in my motor.  For example, I did a trainer ride on Sunday for 90 minutes, averaging 174w. I struggled through the workout. I did an hour on the trainer last night, averaging 187w and felt pretty solid. Couldn't really point to something and say that was why.

    Run pace is really where I have noticed a drop-off. In March, I did a 12-miler at a 10:00/mi pace, pretty strong for me. Now I am doing 11:00 miles for 6 mile runs.

    I have been cleaning up my diet and cutting back on caffeine, both of which seem to be helping. I will keep you posted.


  • Scott - I hope you don't mind me jumping in here but I highly recommend getting an Iron panel with Ferritin and Vitamin D levels done. Both of these contribute to fatigue. It's not uncommon in Men. Just tell your doctor you have fatigue and training hard. Insurance companies need a reason to pay for it.

    Otherwise go to https://www.insidetracker.com/customer/onboarding/choose-plan/ 
    @Mariah Bridges set up a 20% discount for EN.
  • Scott - I know way too much about InsideTracker and their blog is a wealth of knowledge, I actually help them with content. Im more than happy to chat with you and if you have an HSA you can usually get it through that. Once you have the InsideTracker panel you can upload bloodwork from your doctor free of charge. It tells you what you need and the interventions your specific body needs for performance, its really cool. 

    Thanks Sheila, we love that inner health! 
  • Thank you @Sheila Leard and @Mariah Bridges. I have been feeling more like myself the last few days, so I am hoping it was just a bug or something. It was very frustrating. I will check out InsideTracker either way
  • @Coach Patrick Just checking in. I have been forced to work out indoors almost exclusively late at night thanks to a recent heat wave, but still getting the work in. One of my major issues at IMSR was bike fit. On the recommendation of @Al Truscott , I am planning to go to a bike fitter who is trained in F.I.S.T and Retul. It looks like IMAZ is a race where staying in aero as much as possible will be important, so hopefully that helps. I have also been training exclusively with Gatorade Endurance. So far so good.
  • I am glad to hear that you are on the mend. Don’t feel bad if there still a part of your brain and circulation better to make the investment in something like a blood panel inside tracker so we have the data versus waking up in a few weeks before the race. Just my advice.

    Yes it makes a massive difference and could also contribute to better paces in the bike and the run. I strongly recommend you get it in the sooner the better.

    Don’t worry so much about the indoor training, that’s great mental toughness which is a huge part of being successful at Arizona!
  • @Coach Patrick 
    Had bike fit done this week using 'Retul" and getting blood panel done tomorrow. I feel back to normal, but can't hurt.

    I hit about 9.5 hours of training the past two weeks, but I know I need to manage my time better so I can fit in more training. 14 weeks out from Arizona - another DNF is not an option. 

    Although I didn't get in as much running as I would have liked, I did get about 5.5 hours on the bike and 2300 yards of open water swimming. I had planned to do some lunchtime workouts, but work has been unpredictable. I am going to try a few early morning workouts this week to see how that goes. 

    In the bike wiki, its says if more than 12 weeks out from the race, you can modify indoor cycling workouts to 2/3 the total time. I don't plan to make a habit out of this as I definitely need the work, but I was pressed for time, so I did 2/3 of the long Saturday ride on Trainer Road. Curious what your thoughts are on this?

    Going to try to do a sweat test this week so I can begin dialing in the GE needs. I have some more questions about GE for me, but I will try the forums first. These posts are good accountability for me so thank you for the feedback.
  • @Sheila Leard lab results showed low Vitamin D...good call :)

  • @scottschneider If your levels are below 30 ng/ml start on 5000 IU/day for three months. Then go to 2000 IU/day.
     In 6 months you should get rechecked. Goal is 50-70 ng/ml.
  • @Sheila Leard I already take 2000iu of Vitamin D, plus a multi with probably another 400iu, as well as krill oil (which should have even more). I was at 28 ng/ml....so you think another 5k on top of that?? 
  • We need to be careful at throwing more supplements down the hatch.

    Since you don't have a previous lab on D (or do you) it's hard to  know if the current supplements are bringing your levels up. Too much D can drive down Magnesium. And  .... you need magnesium for absorption of D. Magnesium Malate or Glycinate is a good form to take.  400 mg is safe and many athletes are low in mag.
    • Two other possibilities of why you are not absorbing D is a VDR - vitamin D receptor gene mutation. Its not a bad thing, it's in your DNA. Only way to know is get genetic testing done. 
    • The other thing is PTH - parathyroid hormone. Your doctor can test for this. PTH creates a  delicate balance between calcium and D. 
    I would say stay the course, don't increase D, add magnesium, and take Vit D with food, and get retested to see if your are trending up. 
  •  Thank you Sheila for all the advice! Holy expertise! 😮 

     If you are indoors, I am OK with you cutting the work out to be 2/3. That said, you do need to get a few key long rides in so mentally prepare yourself for that! Yes, that means even indoors. Let me know how the bike feels. 
  • @Coach Patrick - with 8 weeks to go until Arizona, I am starting to get anxious about my training volume. I don't feel like I am missing workouts - hitting 12-13 hours consistently the last month - but after Santa Rosa, I don't want to take any chances. Do you mind taking a peek at my Strava and letting me know if you think I am still on track? I read Al Truscott talking about CTL, but I don't have any idea how to calculate that. Assume it is a feature through TP?

    Thank you

  • I am on it, stay tuned. Yes, CPT L is a function and Training Peaks. But if you use the chrome browser to look at Strava, you can insert the plug-in called STRAVATISTIX And it will show you similar trans when you look at your data in the browser. It is a free plug-in.

  • Coach,

    I apologize if I misunderstood your last post. I tried using Stravistix (now called Elevate) to analyze my Strava data, but it might as well have been in Chinese....I have been consistently hitting 12+ hours of training per week, but I want to make sure I am putting in enough work. I look at your Strava profile and feel like a slacker! Just wanted to get some feedback from you on where I'm at.

    Thank you

  • @Scott Schneider - okay in your strava, and things look good. I like how you have built up the past few weeks with fewer breaks. Rest days are needed every now and then but I like how you are sticking with even an easy run on the "odd" days so that we can keep things rolling for you. It's really important to keep your engine running at this point in the year.

    You still have a bit of time, so we aren't under any specific pressure. Upcoming changes include a singe long run (not split) so that will take some adaptation. If you can keep up the beefy weekend rides, you will be in a a great place by Mid October, when we start transitioning to Race Rehearsal time.

    Do yourself a favor and make sure your nutrition practice is in a good place...you are going to need it as the work ramps up!

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