@Coach Patrick, yes i understand and we're aligned. I have one more race after IMWI (70.3 North Carolina in October) then I will need your help with offseason and 2020 planning (looking at a half in May and then maybe IMLP as it is a team event?). But for now let's focus on Wisconsin and I'll reach out after the race.
I was really pleased with the responses i got on my race plan from the team and especially some folks who made it to Kona, this is really an awesome group that I'm eager to meet face to face at some point.
Earlier this year i committed to riding a 275 mile event called Cycle for the Cause, a charity ride between Boston and New York for which i had to raise about $3,000. The monies will go to various programs that fight AIDS. The ride will take place in two weeks (will ride from Friday to Sunday 9/22). This is not a race so i'll just take it easy and just ride along.
My next race is North Carolina 70.3 on 10/19, 4 weeks after the charity ride. My goal there is to break 5:30 and run my half under 2 hours. What do i need to do from a training plan perspective in Final Surge?
Thanks again for all the help to get me to run 4:30 in Madison. I have never felt so happy running strong these past 3 miles in a full IM.
@Coach Patrick, I applied the last four weeks for the HIM plan given myself this week and next week to recover. Then next week end i'll do my 275 ride (easy) and the following Monday (so two weeks after my IM) i will train stronger on the HIM plan. I also loaded the two weeks post HIM recovery plan. I think I'm good for now. If you see something very wrong with what i've done in Final Surge please let me know if not I'll do these next 6 weeks and then we can talk about 2020?
Vincent that approach sounds great. I think the most important thing you can do is just pay attention to your body as you get back to training. He might have a new egg or annoying thing going on that we might wanna pay attention to. Could be your back, could be your hamstring, etc. Congratulations on your race. I know exactly the feeling you are describing at the end, it is so powerful isn’t it?
If you haven’t done so already, please submit a quick race report with a picture if you have one, I’d like to share your story out to the team: https://endurancenation.wufoo.com/forms/q7a69dd1purtki/
@Coach Patrick, below is the link to my race report. I don't have any picture yet but will update as soon as i receive it (at least so you can see that i've lost 10 pounds since the Santa Rosa pictures :-)
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Hey man, I saw you submitted your races so I thought I would process them. Of course you have plenty to do between now and the end of the season, but it's always nice to have a pretty good sense of what we’re trying to achieve on a macro scale as early as possible.
To that end I've outlined your year for next year which has a good amount of recovery built-in at the end of October. I like to make sure you do get a chance to rest before we transition you two are run durability program installing the foundation for some of those run skills and fitness that you want to build for 2020.
We will take you out of that and put you into the out season for runners which will be the great way to start the season on the right foot (pun intended!). From there will take you into a brief break with some camp, transition you into the half plan to start building for Connecticut before we inject early, and start ramping things up for Tremont.
It's important to know that a huge part of the process of improving your run performance is also getting stronger on the bike. I don't necessarily want to disconnect those two items and do want to encourage you to continue seeking out epic ride opportunities earlier in the season.
I know things will be tough with Connecticut there, but hopefully we can find some events that will really challenge you and help make you strong on two wheels. This will absolutely help to unlock your running potential.
Let me know what you think!
Your Races
02/09/2020 Half Marathon New Orleans (Rock & Roll)
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Last updated by Coach on 09/16/2019
On 10/21/2019 Load the -- Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 11/17/2019
On 11/18/2019 Load the -- Run Durability for Triathletes 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 12/15/19
On 12/16/2019 Load the -- Run Durability for Triathletes 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 1/12/2020
>> Transition Early <<
On 1/6/2020 Load the OutSeason for Triathletes (Bike Focus) Plan, 14wks to end on 4/12/2020
On 4/13/2020 Load Swim Camp (2 weeks) to end on 4/26/2020
On 4/20/2020 Load the Run Focus Half Plan to end on 05/31/2020
>> Transition Early <<
On 05/18/2020 Load the EN Full Bike Focused to end on 8/23/2020
On 08/24/2020 Load the Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 09/20/20
Your Notes
Embrun (France) 2013
IM Louisville 2015, 2016, 2018
IM Florida 2017
IM Santa Rosa 2019
IM Wisconsin 2019
plus a bunch of Olympics and 70.3sJust completed IM Wisconsin (just shy of 13 hours), preparing 70.3 North Carolina, then will end season
Man, that was fast... thank you very much, I also love looking ahead at what's coming, even if it's a year ahead, it's almost from a visualization standpoint where i want to be (and what i have to do) for the next big race.
One caveat though is that i wanted to get your input first on which races you would recommend so Connecticut and Mt Tremblant may change (but the timing of the races should not change much, i was also considering Chattanooga 70.3 in May and Wisconsin full which is two weeks after Tremblant). The insight from you would be what races would best suit my skills (or less impact my limiters) but at the same time Summer is the best time for me to train and having a race late August / early September is ideal (so that excludes many other races - the only exception maybe is Lake Placid end of July..).
Also as an FYI, i sent an email to Todd at TTbikefit.com, i convinced my wife to come spend a week end in Rhode Island (late October or November) so that i could get a bike fit on my P3 and also get his perspective on whether this is the right bike for me or if i need to look at a new one (if the wife hears this from him maybe she won't veto it :-). I was trying to schedule an appointment on a Saturday morning and I would have the rest of the week-end to visit the region with her.
Good luck with your last few weeks before Kona and I i will look at the details of these plans and already project myself into 2020.
Hope you're doing well finishing your build block for Kona. As you had requested please find attache one picture from my run in Madison (with the red EN jersey!). Body comp is better (i raced at 177lbs, down 10 from Santa Rosa) but still a way to go, i still look not lean. My goal is to exit OutSeason under 170 (for six feet and strong/heavy lower body build) and to race next closer to 165
When we talk again (probably end of October) I'd like to get your insight on IM races for next year (considering Switzerland, Mt Tremblanc, Wisconsin, Chatt, Louisville and Maryland). Cooler temp, good pavement and timing (ideally end of Summer) are key factors here.
I'd also like to understand how Zwift races can be incorporated and when in training plan. I've never raced on Zwift so would like to give it a try but is it appropriate to do the EN races on Saturdays during Run Durability? or Outseason?
That is a great picture, thank you for sending it over! I think you’re doing a great job on the body composition so far. One of the bigger additions to getting leaner will actually be adding a little bit of muscle mass in your upper body. This might be a nice project for us to work on in the winter with a simple gym routine two times a week. This can even be done at home depending on what your access is to facilities, so let me know.
Of all of your requests for an end of summer race, the most difficult one to come by as the temperature. Even Chattanooga, which is this weekend at the end of September, is looking to have a high of 97°. These are the times that we live in. In terms of road quality I would put Switzerland and tremblant the top of that list, and tremblant certainly for the experience of the village and making it very family and spouse friendly.
We have some basic information inside the team racing, essentially you have two options. One is to replace the given interval ride that day or that week with the race, the other is to use one of our weekend rides to extend your training time beyond the winter weekend work out prescription. All things on Swift are generally harder than we would like him to be, so it’s important to balance out how you do that work with how fit you are. We can certainly discuss, but I would encourage you to get on Swift and start writing so you are set up for the fall anyway!
Book that call!! https://calendly.com/pmccrann/30min
Chattanooga is always freaken hot. I've raced there twice for 70.3 and mid May it's already over 85F.. this is why i can't go there even if it's only two hours away from Atlanta. I'm narrowing down to Switzerland (my sister lives an hour away in Lausanne and my mum could come see me, she lives in Nice) or Mt Tremblanc. It seems both races are comparable on the bike but CH is flat (three loops around the lake). Switzerland is in a new location in Thun, they moved it from Zurich. If Ironman had a race in Alaska i would go for sure.
First congrats on a great Kona performance. Very inspiring. It's a dream of so many to be there...
So yesterday was 70.3 North Carolina and it went well. I PR'd by about 15 minutes with a 5h33 and broke the 2h mark on the run with a 1:59:30. Super happy with the run and the overall execution. Actually the run was my strongest event of the three.
Bike was the weakest one with a ~ 2h50 (the course is 1.5 miles longer than normal). I basically was not able to hold power in a sustained way. As usual I never felt comfortable on the bike in aero position, did not have much power and when i pushed a desired power i could not do it for more than 10/20 minutes. I will start with a bike fit and i think (unless you disagree) that i will want to have my tri bike on the trainer this winter to get used to riding it for longer periods (instead of my old road bike that is currently on the trainer).
When i look back at this half season we worked together I'm really happy. I've learnt a lot about execution which has allowed me to have solid runs both in Madison and Wilmington. Now for 2020 i just need to run and bike faster, actually i would love to run and bike MUCH faster :-). I'm ready to put the work for it.
Now, it's family and recovery time for 4 weeks. Then mid November I'll start the Run Durabilty 2nd and 3rd blocks.
Thanks again for your support this year and I look forward to the outseason training so that i can build the engine to go faster in 2020.
Breaking two hours in the run is awesome. What a milestone for you. Just to know that even possible.I agree that a large part of performance on race day is your fitness but the other40% of it is believing you can.
Enjoy the breakAndAre use the downtime to sleep in And be "normal." When you're ready tell me what your races areAnd we can go from there!
I will be visiting Todd at TTbikefit on Friday Nov 15 in the morning. If you are around and have time i thought it would be fun to meet face to face.
2 quick questions:
1 - I'm in my second week of recovery after ending my season at 70.3 North Carolina, and I'm bored... could i load the last two weeks of Run Durability 1 before i start RD 2 on 11/17? or should i really try to do not much and recover. I had already taken time off after Wisconsin so i feel i'm ready to go now but.... don't want to do anything stupid.
2 - when i start RD (from mid November to early January) i also wanted to do the Friday Freight Train, Saturday Hand on Ride, maybe the Sunday morning one and even possibly the two short Bumb races on Sunday night and Mondya night. Maybe not each week though. Is that a bad idea and i should really stick to the plan with very little bike or is it ok as long as i don't over exhaust myself.
I decided to load week 3 and 4 of Run Durability block 1, i was getting antsy to start training again and my weight was trending up.. not good. And i feel totally rested mentally and physically.
I watched your RD webinar last night and you were talking about giving your self a target, so i realized i've run 830 miles year to date so my goal is to break 1,000 miles before 12/31. I think it's doable, i've counted 29 hours of running in the plans so that should do the trick.
Also i'm leaning towards 70.3 Chattanooga (closer to home) on 5/17 before Mt Tremblant on 8/21 and am seriously thinking about a second IM later in the year, most likely Arizona. If not Cozumel, if not Florida. Any recommendation?
With the RD program can i race Zwift? i like the Sprint Bump Race (i won last week and Zwift pushed my FTP to 262 and recategorized me as B so that's likely be my last race i win...), I also like the Friday Freight Train. I joined the Hang on Ride on Saturday but got dropped and i think it's pretty tough to go hard for nearly 2 hours (and i don't want to do weight doping). What do you recommend i do until JOS (1/6)?
Vincent - sorry that I missed this message earlier. I feel like you and I’ve been communicating in a different channel, I’m not sure why I don’t see those messages here. I hope you have a great time with Todd, he is an expert and will get you 100% dialed in. I unfortunately am playing catch-up between my two Iron Man races with my political commitments and can’t connect with you this time around. Maybe next time!
yes, you can Race on Zwift. Once a week right now is fine. That type of a shorter race will help keep you sharp while we do good maintenance on your run. I think that run goal is a fantastic one! You will definitely see some solid gains in 2020 if you can come close.
personally I recommend that you do Arizona. The weather in Florida is always iffy as the last two years have shown. And Cozumel is a great destination, so if you want to make it more of a vacation style race then definitely go there. But if you’re looking to race for time in Arizona is the place to go.
Which ever one of the two you choose we can help you out. But the first order of business is getting that run dialed in!
@Coach Patrick - no worries , we'll meet next time. I had a great session with Todd and rode this morning on the new setup, everything feels so much better. Must faster (aero) and comfy ride. It is both a more comfortable position (no back / neck pain anymore), more relaxed and much more aero position. The only thing was that i got blurred vision and got a bit dizzy when riding hard on some segments towards the end of the ride and it was difficult to lift up my head to look far ahead. I will learn how to manage it over the next rides if not we'll have to be a notch less aggressive from a position perspective.
So i signed up for Chattanooga 70.3 in May because i raced it twice and got beat twice. So my goal this year is to race < 5:30 and under 2 hours on the run (more difficult that doing it in Wilmington). I will sign up for Arizona in few weeks. And I'm doing Tremblant. And i'm enjoying the Run Durability program and doing planks (getting close to 2 minutes each) and military push ups (I have not reached 10 on these yet though). Struggling to lose weight, stuck at ~ 180-183 so will start being serious again. Goal is to be close to 170 by end of JOS.
Good luck at IMAZ and let's touch base after the holidays,
I love the progress and the consistency. It DOES take time to get used to a new bike first, so don't get frustrated. The winter is a great time when you are on the trainer, etc. I think your full season looks good...no mercy for your legs or lungs though! 🤣
Enjoy the holidays, stay fit and let's catch up soon!
Thanks @Coach Patrick. Bike fit did really help, i'm getting used to the new position on the bike and am loving it.
Quick training question for you: i missed signing up for IMAZ and now i' considering doing IM Switzerland on 7/12 since i will be in Europe and my sister lives an hour away. There would be 6 weeks between IMSW and IMMT... is that doable, smart, possible? i think it's about what you did between Kona and IMAZ but I'm not you... so am i going to screw up IMMT if i race another IM 6 weeks before or will i leverage the momentum built for IMSW at IMMT?
If not i may consider IMCOZ or else i'll just do a 70.3 to end the season (ie Memphis or North Carolina)
Probably my last post of 2019, so first huge thank you for turning my triathlon career around since I joined EN, it has given me a sense of fun and a purpose that i don't think I had anymore.
This morning i passed the 1000 miles run mark. While still junior compared to some guys on the team for me it's big. I had never run that much in one year and more importantly i'm really enjoying the almost daily runs of RD 2 and RD 3.
I've decided to stick with my initial plan, i'll race 70.3 Chattanooga in May and IMMT in August. Then i'll decide between another 70.3 or IM Florida if it's still open by then but for now i have my next 8 months mapped and I won't change, now time for execution and JOS starting on 1/6.
I have few important questions for you with regards to JOS:
1 - JOS bike workouts vs. Zwift races. I see you and Tim Sullivan and several others racing all the time vs. doing workouts. I also prefer Zwift races vs. suffering alone on a workout. Given that it's my first OS what do you recommend? do i stick with the workouts? can i replace by Zwift races, if yes which ones? the question is really for the non weekends workouts as for week ends i'll eithe ride outside or follow the EN rides.
2 - which bike for Zwift - i currently have my old road bike on the trainer but do you recommend that i switch to my P3 to spend more time with my tri bike (even for workouts or Zwift races) or swith to tri bike after JOS when starting building volume?
3 - Tucson Spring Camp - really designed for the IMSG folks but would you see benefits if i did join? i'm trying to get a friend (who's going to Kona this year) to go with me so he can learn more about you and EN and hopefully then join the team.
Thanks in advance, if it's easier to talk i can setup a call. All the best for 2020
Hey man, just checking in. Thank you for taking the time to write everything out in such an organized manner. And of course, for all of your kind words… We provide guidance but you’re the one who’s doing all the work!
yes to doing this with Races as Workouts, but I would keep it simple math first. So, for the first phase of the season which is five weeks long, I would do all of the plan Workouts. In the second phase, weeks 6 to 10, you can replace one of the weekly workouts with a race that has comparable levels of work. I don’t know when you normally train and that will dictate the type of races and your options to choose from.
in the third and final phase you can do one weekday workout and one of the weekend workouts as Zwift Races. For the weekend we will do a race and then just continue running longer to build the endurance.
in terms of your bike, I would stick with a road bike on the trainer for the whole season. Once we finish that part of your training up we can put your tri bike on there and use that both indoors and out. I think it’s important have a little bit of a break as the year is so long.
The campus in Arizona is simply designed to be volume. We will do some conversations around race execution in St. George and I but really it’s all about training; everyone’s welcome. That said, I just found out yesterday that I may need to change some of the dates so standby & give me some time to see where the camp lands; but I really appreciate you inviting your friend. I hope we can make it work.
All good here, really enjoying Outseason and doing lots of Zwifting for biking and running. Also doing some strength every Sunday with my two friends whom i'm trying to get to join EN. One is Dave Brunner, he qualified for Kona at Louisville few months ago and i think will be joining soon. I told him about you and he's been listening to your podcast and found the ones about Kona extremely insightful.
Between strength training and watching my body comp I'm now back to 180 pounds, 12% body fat and i can do 3x10 pullups! quite an achievement for me :-).
By the way i really liked your last podcast on food behavoir, indeed it's all about having a healthy relationship with food and understanding that if you train super hard on the bike and run but you have poor body comp because of bad eating behavior then you're not maximizing the outcome of all these hours suffering in your paincave. It hit me when i realized that i can push easily 30-40 watts more than my friend Dave but because he's much lighter we have the same watts / kgs. So my goal is now to lower my weight but in a super healthy way.
Also for now i'm sticking to the workouts instead of doing Zwift races, i like the structure and the suffering. I will probably do races after JOS... in a way i'm very academic :-) i like the satisfaction of executing the plan as it's laid out :-)
I have a question for you: I signed up for 70.3 Chattanooga which is three months from now (5/17). How will i articulate the end of JOS to the 70.3 race? not super worried about the bike but more about the run as i don't think i will be running more than 70 or 80 minutes in the JOS plan. Should i increase my long run distance to approach 2 hours for the Sundays JOS runs? also from a Plan perspective i assume that i would need to load the 70.3 plan after JOS (i will be on Spring Break with the kids and wife from 4/4 to 4/11 so i thought i would take this week as a transition week between JOS and 70.3 prep and would do the last 4-5 weeks of the 70.3 Plan. Is that correct?
@Vincent Sivirine I see you in Zwift all the time when I’m out there, trying give you a thumbs up when I think of it. 👍
Good to see how consistent you been across-the-board with all of your training. Thank you so much for presenting Endurance Nation to your friends as a training option; more than happy to help them out in whatever way I can.
Moving forward towards the 70.3 in general I’m not too concerned about the run because by the end of the OS and you should be around 90 minutes worth of running which isn’t that far from what we would be doing for a half Iron Man.
if you have 2 to 2.25h between your Sat brick run and your Sunday long run you should be all good. Really!
Your transition plan sounds good, including that break. If anything, I’d want to make sure you’ve done 2 x 3h rides before the end of the OS!
@Coach Patrick, thanks for checking in. All good here, family is fine (both here at home and mother in France and sister in Switzerland), just waiting for this stuff to end so we can see what's left and rebuild ...I hope you and your loved ones are fine too.
70.3 Chattanooga got postponed to the same day as IM Mt Tremblant (which may be postponed too, hopefully not). So for now i was thinking that i could re-start OutSeason on 4/11 for the second and third blocks (5 weeks + 4 weeks) which would take me to early June and at that time start the IM ramp up (10-12 weeks before race time on 8/23). What do you think? i don't believe i'll be racing before Tremblant, or if i do it will only be local Olympics.
And i'm also thinking that i could race Louisville or Florida after Tremblant (or instead of Temblant if it gets postponed or if US decides to make it very difficult when you come back from abroad, even Canada...).
Final question for you: next week is test week and i'm still undecided as to whether i go for a PR on a 10K (48:30) or Half Marathon (1:49:54). I feel i'm a bit short on a HM since my longest run has been only 90'but i've been running about 6 times per week and have been a very good student, i must have missed only a very small handful of workouts over since January. What's your recommendation?
@Coach Patrick, quick update. I've in essence finished JOS with this awful 9x5min. ride last on Thursday. I was able to complete it at 270w without stopping nor playing with the bias so i was happy. Ran easy on Friday, Saturday i did not have any legs and felt tired and ready to burn the bike so did an hour pretty hard and then called it a day. And then today i just felt like spending more time doing taxes than getting on my bike or running so i took the day off (instead of tomorrow). I'll be in better form to do the Tuesday FTP test and the run test next week. I've decided i'll go for the HM and want to break my PR of 1:49:54.
I really loved OutSeason but i think it also took a toll on me both physically and mentally. I really like running 6 times a week though. How do i bridge to early June for the 12 week plan for IM Tremblant (assuming the race stays on). I feel i may need a bit of unstructured training for a while.. Do i take the opportunity to develop my run? do i do Zwift races and super easy recovery rides? I'm not sure i see myself doing another round of OS as some teammates are planning to... any advice?
@Vincent Sivirine - I am glad that you saw Fitness Gaines but that you also listen to your body. There is a fine line there between what is possible to do and what is possible to absorb. It sounds like you were doing a good job of managing the space between work and recovery. There's no downside to taking extra recovery when you've done so much work, in other words.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the test data looks like, but we already know that you have built some quality fitness. Nice work.
Here is what we have outlined for you for the rest of the season. There's no need to repeat the whole season at this time. Instead your season plan says:
On 4/13/2020 Load Swim Camp Alternative (2 weeks) to end on 4/26/2020
On 4/20/2020 Load the Run Focus Half Plan to end on 05/31/2020
>> Transition Early <<
On 05/18/2020 Load the EN Full Bike Focused to end on 8/23/2020
On 08/24/2020 Load the Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 09/20/20
I think you can still follow the first two components of that program as part of your transition. The swim camp alternative program is designed to allow you to consolidate your fitness a bit while keeping you active. I created recently because we don't have access to pools right now. As you go through this week, good luck and let me know if you need help making those plan adjustments.
@Coach Patrick thanks. Can you clarify if the week of 4/20 i do the second week of Swim Camp Alternative or the first week of the Run Focus Half Plan. I'll need to plan a virtual HIM on 5/18 since that was the date for Chattanooga 70.3 which got delayed
@Vincent Sivirine - Hey, sorry for the confusion. I mapped out your season we only had a week worth of time for recovery. I decided that it was more important to have a build up to your 70.3 race then to emphasize the recovery portion. Given how fatigued you are right now, I would recommend that we modify that progression a little bit to be as follows:
On 4/13/2020 Load Swim Camp Alternative (2 weeks) to end on 4/26/2020 [2 weeks]
On 4/27/2020 Load the Run Focus Half Plan to end on 05/31/2020 [5 weeks]
>> Transition Early <<
On 05/18/2020 Load the EN Full Bike Focused to end on 8/23/2020
On 08/24/2020 Load the Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 09/20/20
Some ways, this is a compromise. We are emphasizing the rest over the build up to the middle of May.
I guess the bigger question here for you is do you really feel the need to ramp up quickly for the No Longer Happening Half? Or are you willing to give yourself a little more time to peek later in the season? Something along the lines of early June?
@Coach Patrick yes i think that's the question. i guess i could do my own virtual HIM on 5/17 (time trail type) but it's not super motivating... so i was thinking my next big date is really 8/21 for IM Mt Tremblant and before that i most likely will not race so i'm very open to doing whatever you think is best.
I liked the discipline of JOS and felt i improved my fitness quite a bit (will see with the tests this week) but i would also be open to more Zwift races during the week. The IM plan starts on 6/1, the question is really what do i do from second half of April to end of May.
Also, when should i put my tri bike on the trainer if i'm planning to do long week end rides on Zwift? right now i have my road bike and i'm pushing it to about 3 hours for Saturday workouts but if i'm planning to spending more time indoors vs. outdoors during the IM build shouldn't i do this on my tri bike?
Finally, i see that you're doing a lot of short fast runs right now. All my runs that follow a bike are currently done easy / slow (except on the Sunday long run of course), should i start to introduce one fast brick per week?
Comments
@Coach Patrick, yes i understand and we're aligned. I have one more race after IMWI (70.3 North Carolina in October) then I will need your help with offseason and 2020 planning (looking at a half in May and then maybe IMLP as it is a team event?). But for now let's focus on Wisconsin and I'll reach out after the race.
I was really pleased with the responses i got on my race plan from the team and especially some folks who made it to Kona, this is really an awesome group that I'm eager to meet face to face at some point.
@Vincent Sivirine Yes, LP is key race 2020!!! 🎉; I am happy to help as you see fit; for now lets keep IMWI on the front burner!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick
Earlier this year i committed to riding a 275 mile event called Cycle for the Cause, a charity ride between Boston and New York for which i had to raise about $3,000. The monies will go to various programs that fight AIDS. The ride will take place in two weeks (will ride from Friday to Sunday 9/22). This is not a race so i'll just take it easy and just ride along.
My next race is North Carolina 70.3 on 10/19, 4 weeks after the charity ride. My goal there is to break 5:30 and run my half under 2 hours. What do i need to do from a training plan perspective in Final Surge?
Thanks again for all the help to get me to run 4:30 in Madison. I have never felt so happy running strong these past 3 miles in a full IM.
Vincent
@Coach Patrick, I applied the last four weeks for the HIM plan given myself this week and next week to recover. Then next week end i'll do my 275 ride (easy) and the following Monday (so two weeks after my IM) i will train stronger on the HIM plan. I also loaded the two weeks post HIM recovery plan. I think I'm good for now. If you see something very wrong with what i've done in Final Surge please let me know if not I'll do these next 6 weeks and then we can talk about 2020?
Thanks and happy training,
Vincent
Vincent that approach sounds great. I think the most important thing you can do is just pay attention to your body as you get back to training. He might have a new egg or annoying thing going on that we might wanna pay attention to. Could be your back, could be your hamstring, etc. Congratulations on your race. I know exactly the feeling you are describing at the end, it is so powerful isn’t it?
If you haven’t done so already, please submit a quick race report with a picture if you have one, I’d like to share your story out to the team: https://endurancenation.wufoo.com/forms/q7a69dd1purtki/
@Coach Patrick, below is the link to my race report. I don't have any picture yet but will update as soon as i receive it (at least so you can see that i've lost 10 pounds since the Santa Rosa pictures :-)
https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/26056/vincent-s-2019-wisconsin-race-report
@Vincent Sivirine
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Hey man, I saw you submitted your races so I thought I would process them. Of course you have plenty to do between now and the end of the season, but it's always nice to have a pretty good sense of what we’re trying to achieve on a macro scale as early as possible.
To that end I've outlined your year for next year which has a good amount of recovery built-in at the end of October. I like to make sure you do get a chance to rest before we transition you two are run durability program installing the foundation for some of those run skills and fitness that you want to build for 2020.
We will take you out of that and put you into the out season for runners which will be the great way to start the season on the right foot (pun intended!). From there will take you into a brief break with some camp, transition you into the half plan to start building for Connecticut before we inject early, and start ramping things up for Tremont.
It's important to know that a huge part of the process of improving your run performance is also getting stronger on the bike. I don't necessarily want to disconnect those two items and do want to encourage you to continue seeking out epic ride opportunities earlier in the season.
I know things will be tough with Connecticut there, but hopefully we can find some events that will really challenge you and help make you strong on two wheels. This will absolutely help to unlock your running potential.
Let me know what you think!
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Your Notes
Embrun (France) 2013
IM Louisville 2015, 2016, 2018
IM Florida 2017
IM Santa Rosa 2019
IM Wisconsin 2019
plus a bunch of Olympics and 70.3sJust completed IM Wisconsin (just shy of 13 hours), preparing 70.3 North Carolina, then will end season
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick
Man, that was fast... thank you very much, I also love looking ahead at what's coming, even if it's a year ahead, it's almost from a visualization standpoint where i want to be (and what i have to do) for the next big race.
One caveat though is that i wanted to get your input first on which races you would recommend so Connecticut and Mt Tremblant may change (but the timing of the races should not change much, i was also considering Chattanooga 70.3 in May and Wisconsin full which is two weeks after Tremblant). The insight from you would be what races would best suit my skills (or less impact my limiters) but at the same time Summer is the best time for me to train and having a race late August / early September is ideal (so that excludes many other races - the only exception maybe is Lake Placid end of July..).
Also as an FYI, i sent an email to Todd at TTbikefit.com, i convinced my wife to come spend a week end in Rhode Island (late October or November) so that i could get a bike fit on my P3 and also get his perspective on whether this is the right bike for me or if i need to look at a new one (if the wife hears this from him maybe she won't veto it :-). I was trying to schedule an appointment on a Saturday morning and I would have the rest of the week-end to visit the region with her.
Good luck with your last few weeks before Kona and I i will look at the details of these plans and already project myself into 2020.
Vincent
Hi @Coach Patrick
Hope you're doing well finishing your build block for Kona. As you had requested please find attache one picture from my run in Madison (with the red EN jersey!). Body comp is better (i raced at 177lbs, down 10 from Santa Rosa) but still a way to go, i still look not lean. My goal is to exit OutSeason under 170 (for six feet and strong/heavy lower body build) and to race next closer to 165
When we talk again (probably end of October) I'd like to get your insight on IM races for next year (considering Switzerland, Mt Tremblanc, Wisconsin, Chatt, Louisville and Maryland). Cooler temp, good pavement and timing (ideally end of Summer) are key factors here.
I'd also like to understand how Zwift races can be incorporated and when in training plan. I've never raced on Zwift so would like to give it a try but is it appropriate to do the EN races on Saturdays during Run Durability? or Outseason?
Thanks
Vincent
That is a great picture, thank you for sending it over! I think you’re doing a great job on the body composition so far. One of the bigger additions to getting leaner will actually be adding a little bit of muscle mass in your upper body. This might be a nice project for us to work on in the winter with a simple gym routine two times a week. This can even be done at home depending on what your access is to facilities, so let me know.
Of all of your requests for an end of summer race, the most difficult one to come by as the temperature. Even Chattanooga, which is this weekend at the end of September, is looking to have a high of 97°. These are the times that we live in. In terms of road quality I would put Switzerland and tremblant the top of that list, and tremblant certainly for the experience of the village and making it very family and spouse friendly.
We have some basic information inside the team racing, essentially you have two options. One is to replace the given interval ride that day or that week with the race, the other is to use one of our weekend rides to extend your training time beyond the winter weekend work out prescription. All things on Swift are generally harder than we would like him to be, so it’s important to balance out how you do that work with how fit you are. We can certainly discuss, but I would encourage you to get on Swift and start writing so you are set up for the fall anyway!
Book that call!! https://calendly.com/pmccrann/30min
@Coach Patrick
Call is booked for next Tuesday 10/1.
Chattanooga is always freaken hot. I've raced there twice for 70.3 and mid May it's already over 85F.. this is why i can't go there even if it's only two hours away from Atlanta. I'm narrowing down to Switzerland (my sister lives an hour away in Lausanne and my mum could come see me, she lives in Nice) or Mt Tremblanc. It seems both races are comparable on the bike but CH is flat (three loops around the lake). Switzerland is in a new location in Thun, they moved it from Zurich. If Ironman had a race in Alaska i would go for sure.
Talk to you next week,
So good to talk with you! I’m really excited to see what your 2020 will look like and what we can achieve together!
@Coach Patrick
First congrats on a great Kona performance. Very inspiring. It's a dream of so many to be there...
So yesterday was 70.3 North Carolina and it went well. I PR'd by about 15 minutes with a 5h33 and broke the 2h mark on the run with a 1:59:30. Super happy with the run and the overall execution. Actually the run was my strongest event of the three.
Bike was the weakest one with a ~ 2h50 (the course is 1.5 miles longer than normal). I basically was not able to hold power in a sustained way. As usual I never felt comfortable on the bike in aero position, did not have much power and when i pushed a desired power i could not do it for more than 10/20 minutes. I will start with a bike fit and i think (unless you disagree) that i will want to have my tri bike on the trainer this winter to get used to riding it for longer periods (instead of my old road bike that is currently on the trainer).
When i look back at this half season we worked together I'm really happy. I've learnt a lot about execution which has allowed me to have solid runs both in Madison and Wilmington. Now for 2020 i just need to run and bike faster, actually i would love to run and bike MUCH faster :-). I'm ready to put the work for it.
Now, it's family and recovery time for 4 weeks. Then mid November I'll start the Run Durabilty 2nd and 3rd blocks.
Thanks again for your support this year and I look forward to the outseason training so that i can build the engine to go faster in 2020.
Cheers
Vincent
Breaking two hours in the run is awesome. What a milestone for you. Just to know that even possible.I agree that a large part of performance on race day is your fitness but the other40% of it is believing you can.
Enjoy the breakAndAre use the downtime to sleep in And be "normal." When you're ready tell me what your races areAnd we can go from there!
http://bit.ly/yourraces
@Coach Patrick
I will be visiting Todd at TTbikefit on Friday Nov 15 in the morning. If you are around and have time i thought it would be fun to meet face to face.
2 quick questions:
1 - I'm in my second week of recovery after ending my season at 70.3 North Carolina, and I'm bored... could i load the last two weeks of Run Durability 1 before i start RD 2 on 11/17? or should i really try to do not much and recover. I had already taken time off after Wisconsin so i feel i'm ready to go now but.... don't want to do anything stupid.
2 - when i start RD (from mid November to early January) i also wanted to do the Friday Freight Train, Saturday Hand on Ride, maybe the Sunday morning one and even possibly the two short Bumb races on Sunday night and Mondya night. Maybe not each week though. Is that a bad idea and i should really stick to the plan with very little bike or is it ok as long as i don't over exhaust myself.
Thanks
Vincent
@Coach Patrick
I decided to load week 3 and 4 of Run Durability block 1, i was getting antsy to start training again and my weight was trending up.. not good. And i feel totally rested mentally and physically.
I watched your RD webinar last night and you were talking about giving your self a target, so i realized i've run 830 miles year to date so my goal is to break 1,000 miles before 12/31. I think it's doable, i've counted 29 hours of running in the plans so that should do the trick.
Also i'm leaning towards 70.3 Chattanooga (closer to home) on 5/17 before Mt Tremblant on 8/21 and am seriously thinking about a second IM later in the year, most likely Arizona. If not Cozumel, if not Florida. Any recommendation?
With the RD program can i race Zwift? i like the Sprint Bump Race (i won last week and Zwift pushed my FTP to 262 and recategorized me as B so that's likely be my last race i win...), I also like the Friday Freight Train. I joined the Hang on Ride on Saturday but got dropped and i think it's pretty tough to go hard for nearly 2 hours (and i don't want to do weight doping). What do you recommend i do until JOS (1/6)?
Thanks
Vincent - sorry that I missed this message earlier. I feel like you and I’ve been communicating in a different channel, I’m not sure why I don’t see those messages here. I hope you have a great time with Todd, he is an expert and will get you 100% dialed in. I unfortunately am playing catch-up between my two Iron Man races with my political commitments and can’t connect with you this time around. Maybe next time!
yes, you can Race on Zwift. Once a week right now is fine. That type of a shorter race will help keep you sharp while we do good maintenance on your run. I think that run goal is a fantastic one! You will definitely see some solid gains in 2020 if you can come close.
personally I recommend that you do Arizona. The weather in Florida is always iffy as the last two years have shown. And Cozumel is a great destination, so if you want to make it more of a vacation style race then definitely go there. But if you’re looking to race for time in Arizona is the place to go.
Which ever one of the two you choose we can help you out. But the first order of business is getting that run dialed in!
@Coach Patrick - no worries , we'll meet next time. I had a great session with Todd and rode this morning on the new setup, everything feels so much better. Must faster (aero) and comfy ride. It is both a more comfortable position (no back / neck pain anymore), more relaxed and much more aero position. The only thing was that i got blurred vision and got a bit dizzy when riding hard on some segments towards the end of the ride and it was difficult to lift up my head to look far ahead. I will learn how to manage it over the next rides if not we'll have to be a notch less aggressive from a position perspective.
So i signed up for Chattanooga 70.3 in May because i raced it twice and got beat twice. So my goal this year is to race < 5:30 and under 2 hours on the run (more difficult that doing it in Wilmington). I will sign up for Arizona in few weeks. And I'm doing Tremblant. And i'm enjoying the Run Durability program and doing planks (getting close to 2 minutes each) and military push ups (I have not reached 10 on these yet though). Struggling to lose weight, stuck at ~ 180-183 so will start being serious again. Goal is to be close to 170 by end of JOS.
Good luck at IMAZ and let's touch base after the holidays,
I love the progress and the consistency. It DOES take time to get used to a new bike first, so don't get frustrated. The winter is a great time when you are on the trainer, etc. I think your full season looks good...no mercy for your legs or lungs though! 🤣
Enjoy the holidays, stay fit and let's catch up soon!
~ Coach P
Thanks @Coach Patrick. Bike fit did really help, i'm getting used to the new position on the bike and am loving it.
Quick training question for you: i missed signing up for IMAZ and now i' considering doing IM Switzerland on 7/12 since i will be in Europe and my sister lives an hour away. There would be 6 weeks between IMSW and IMMT... is that doable, smart, possible? i think it's about what you did between Kona and IMAZ but I'm not you... so am i going to screw up IMMT if i race another IM 6 weeks before or will i leverage the momentum built for IMSW at IMMT?
If not i may consider IMCOZ or else i'll just do a 70.3 to end the season (ie Memphis or North Carolina)
Have a great holiday season
@Coach Patrick
Probably my last post of 2019, so first huge thank you for turning my triathlon career around since I joined EN, it has given me a sense of fun and a purpose that i don't think I had anymore.
This morning i passed the 1000 miles run mark. While still junior compared to some guys on the team for me it's big. I had never run that much in one year and more importantly i'm really enjoying the almost daily runs of RD 2 and RD 3.
I've decided to stick with my initial plan, i'll race 70.3 Chattanooga in May and IMMT in August. Then i'll decide between another 70.3 or IM Florida if it's still open by then but for now i have my next 8 months mapped and I won't change, now time for execution and JOS starting on 1/6.
I have few important questions for you with regards to JOS:
1 - JOS bike workouts vs. Zwift races. I see you and Tim Sullivan and several others racing all the time vs. doing workouts. I also prefer Zwift races vs. suffering alone on a workout. Given that it's my first OS what do you recommend? do i stick with the workouts? can i replace by Zwift races, if yes which ones? the question is really for the non weekends workouts as for week ends i'll eithe ride outside or follow the EN rides.
2 - which bike for Zwift - i currently have my old road bike on the trainer but do you recommend that i switch to my P3 to spend more time with my tri bike (even for workouts or Zwift races) or swith to tri bike after JOS when starting building volume?
3 - Tucson Spring Camp - really designed for the IMSG folks but would you see benefits if i did join? i'm trying to get a friend (who's going to Kona this year) to go with me so he can learn more about you and EN and hopefully then join the team.
Thanks in advance, if it's easier to talk i can setup a call. All the best for 2020
Vincent
Hey man, just checking in. Thank you for taking the time to write everything out in such an organized manner. And of course, for all of your kind words… We provide guidance but you’re the one who’s doing all the work!
yes to doing this with Races as Workouts, but I would keep it simple math first. So, for the first phase of the season which is five weeks long, I would do all of the plan Workouts. In the second phase, weeks 6 to 10, you can replace one of the weekly workouts with a race that has comparable levels of work. I don’t know when you normally train and that will dictate the type of races and your options to choose from.
in the third and final phase you can do one weekday workout and one of the weekend workouts as Zwift Races. For the weekend we will do a race and then just continue running longer to build the endurance.
in terms of your bike, I would stick with a road bike on the trainer for the whole season. Once we finish that part of your training up we can put your tri bike on there and use that both indoors and out. I think it’s important have a little bit of a break as the year is so long.
The campus in Arizona is simply designed to be volume. We will do some conversations around race execution in St. George and I but really it’s all about training; everyone’s welcome. That said, I just found out yesterday that I may need to change some of the dates so standby & give me some time to see where the camp lands; but I really appreciate you inviting your friend. I hope we can make it work.
Hey @Coach Patrick
All good here, really enjoying Outseason and doing lots of Zwifting for biking and running. Also doing some strength every Sunday with my two friends whom i'm trying to get to join EN. One is Dave Brunner, he qualified for Kona at Louisville few months ago and i think will be joining soon. I told him about you and he's been listening to your podcast and found the ones about Kona extremely insightful.
Between strength training and watching my body comp I'm now back to 180 pounds, 12% body fat and i can do 3x10 pullups! quite an achievement for me :-).
By the way i really liked your last podcast on food behavoir, indeed it's all about having a healthy relationship with food and understanding that if you train super hard on the bike and run but you have poor body comp because of bad eating behavior then you're not maximizing the outcome of all these hours suffering in your paincave. It hit me when i realized that i can push easily 30-40 watts more than my friend Dave but because he's much lighter we have the same watts / kgs. So my goal is now to lower my weight but in a super healthy way.
Also for now i'm sticking to the workouts instead of doing Zwift races, i like the structure and the suffering. I will probably do races after JOS... in a way i'm very academic :-) i like the satisfaction of executing the plan as it's laid out :-)
I have a question for you: I signed up for 70.3 Chattanooga which is three months from now (5/17). How will i articulate the end of JOS to the 70.3 race? not super worried about the bike but more about the run as i don't think i will be running more than 70 or 80 minutes in the JOS plan. Should i increase my long run distance to approach 2 hours for the Sundays JOS runs? also from a Plan perspective i assume that i would need to load the 70.3 plan after JOS (i will be on Spring Break with the kids and wife from 4/4 to 4/11 so i thought i would take this week as a transition week between JOS and 70.3 prep and would do the last 4-5 weeks of the 70.3 Plan. Is that correct?
Thanks
Vincent
@Vincent Sivirine I see you in Zwift all the time when I’m out there, trying give you a thumbs up when I think of it. 👍
Good to see how consistent you been across-the-board with all of your training. Thank you so much for presenting Endurance Nation to your friends as a training option; more than happy to help them out in whatever way I can.
Moving forward towards the 70.3 in general I’m not too concerned about the run because by the end of the OS and you should be around 90 minutes worth of running which isn’t that far from what we would be doing for a half Iron Man.
if you have 2 to 2.25h between your Sat brick run and your Sunday long run you should be all good. Really!
Your transition plan sounds good, including that break. If anything, I’d want to make sure you’ve done 2 x 3h rides before the end of the OS!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick, thanks for checking in. All good here, family is fine (both here at home and mother in France and sister in Switzerland), just waiting for this stuff to end so we can see what's left and rebuild ...I hope you and your loved ones are fine too.
70.3 Chattanooga got postponed to the same day as IM Mt Tremblant (which may be postponed too, hopefully not). So for now i was thinking that i could re-start OutSeason on 4/11 for the second and third blocks (5 weeks + 4 weeks) which would take me to early June and at that time start the IM ramp up (10-12 weeks before race time on 8/23). What do you think? i don't believe i'll be racing before Tremblant, or if i do it will only be local Olympics.
And i'm also thinking that i could race Louisville or Florida after Tremblant (or instead of Temblant if it gets postponed or if US decides to make it very difficult when you come back from abroad, even Canada...).
Final question for you: next week is test week and i'm still undecided as to whether i go for a PR on a 10K (48:30) or Half Marathon (1:49:54). I feel i'm a bit short on a HM since my longest run has been only 90'but i've been running about 6 times per week and have been a very good student, i must have missed only a very small handful of workouts over since January. What's your recommendation?
Cheers
Vincent
@Coach Patrick, quick update. I've in essence finished JOS with this awful 9x5min. ride last on Thursday. I was able to complete it at 270w without stopping nor playing with the bias so i was happy. Ran easy on Friday, Saturday i did not have any legs and felt tired and ready to burn the bike so did an hour pretty hard and then called it a day. And then today i just felt like spending more time doing taxes than getting on my bike or running so i took the day off (instead of tomorrow). I'll be in better form to do the Tuesday FTP test and the run test next week. I've decided i'll go for the HM and want to break my PR of 1:49:54.
I really loved OutSeason but i think it also took a toll on me both physically and mentally. I really like running 6 times a week though. How do i bridge to early June for the 12 week plan for IM Tremblant (assuming the race stays on). I feel i may need a bit of unstructured training for a while.. Do i take the opportunity to develop my run? do i do Zwift races and super easy recovery rides? I'm not sure i see myself doing another round of OS as some teammates are planning to... any advice?
Thanks
Vincent
@Vincent Sivirine - I am glad that you saw Fitness Gaines but that you also listen to your body. There is a fine line there between what is possible to do and what is possible to absorb. It sounds like you were doing a good job of managing the space between work and recovery. There's no downside to taking extra recovery when you've done so much work, in other words.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the test data looks like, but we already know that you have built some quality fitness. Nice work.
Here is what we have outlined for you for the rest of the season. There's no need to repeat the whole season at this time. Instead your season plan says:
I think you can still follow the first two components of that program as part of your transition. The swim camp alternative program is designed to allow you to consolidate your fitness a bit while keeping you active. I created recently because we don't have access to pools right now. As you go through this week, good luck and let me know if you need help making those plan adjustments.
@Coach Patrick thanks. Can you clarify if the week of 4/20 i do the second week of Swim Camp Alternative or the first week of the Run Focus Half Plan. I'll need to plan a virtual HIM on 5/18 since that was the date for Chattanooga 70.3 which got delayed
@Vincent Sivirine - Hey, sorry for the confusion. I mapped out your season we only had a week worth of time for recovery. I decided that it was more important to have a build up to your 70.3 race then to emphasize the recovery portion. Given how fatigued you are right now, I would recommend that we modify that progression a little bit to be as follows:
Some ways, this is a compromise. We are emphasizing the rest over the build up to the middle of May.
I guess the bigger question here for you is do you really feel the need to ramp up quickly for the No Longer Happening Half? Or are you willing to give yourself a little more time to peek later in the season? Something along the lines of early June?
@Coach Patrick yes i think that's the question. i guess i could do my own virtual HIM on 5/17 (time trail type) but it's not super motivating... so i was thinking my next big date is really 8/21 for IM Mt Tremblant and before that i most likely will not race so i'm very open to doing whatever you think is best.
I liked the discipline of JOS and felt i improved my fitness quite a bit (will see with the tests this week) but i would also be open to more Zwift races during the week. The IM plan starts on 6/1, the question is really what do i do from second half of April to end of May.
Also, when should i put my tri bike on the trainer if i'm planning to do long week end rides on Zwift? right now i have my road bike and i'm pushing it to about 3 hours for Saturday workouts but if i'm planning to spending more time indoors vs. outdoors during the IM build shouldn't i do this on my tri bike?
Finally, i see that you're doing a lot of short fast runs right now. All my runs that follow a bike are currently done easy / slow (except on the Sunday long run of course), should i start to introduce one fast brick per week?
Thanks
Vincent