Jeff Horn 2019 Official Coach Thread
@Jeff Horn - Hey man, great to chat today!
I'm really glad you are going to roll into something structured for this year as prep for IM St George 2019. I think it's the perfect way to make it happen.
As we discussed, it's run durability for the start, with you picking a Fall event to make sure we have a target.
Along the way you'll want to do some minimal cycling, and ideally pick one or two longer cycling events that are the cornerstones of your bike fitness. They can be road / gravel / MTB, etc.
You can post the the event ideas here and we can roll.
I can't load anything in your Final Surgeaccoutn yes as you were "separated" from Endurance Nation when you cancelled. You can "reunite us baby that's the way It should be" by checking your inbox for a code from Final Surge. I will send it to you via text shortly...
Let's do this!
~ Coach P
Comments
Ok, so brain storming this one
Personally I'd go with 1 (no travel) or 3 (course looks like badlands could be interesting)
Cycling events
Let me know if any of this looks good (or stoopid lol)
Thanks so much for doing the research. I agree, I like the idea of combining the August 24 century with the mid-September marathon. I think three months is a great opportunity for you to turn things around to get on track without trying to ramp up to quickly. My concern about option three in Wyoming is the sheer amount of volume at such a short period of time. If you need to go bigger to stay focused he can put it on the table I would just want to set some benchmarks in place to make sure we keep you healthy. Let me know which option you prefer.
Patrick,
As far as targeting the run goes, I could stay in town to do the local marathon, or do the 45km option in the desert of Wyoming. Personally I think the trail one would be more fun. Long one is not in the cards this year I agree. I could also target the half marathon here 9/16 two weeks before the red 9/28 as a training run in prep for the 45km.
That sounds perfect. If I’m hearing you correctly we can start the run build and work in the half marathon before the 45K trail run. That sounds like the perfect combination. Just give me the green light and I can move forward with mapping that out. In the meantime, how is “basic training“ going?
Patrick,
Yes that is the gist of it. 1/2 leading into the 45k. Basic training is going alright. Running 3x /week just to get the feet under me. Several good routes directly from the house, plenty more scenic ones around town short drive, so that is good. Im currently etting up new pain cave at new house, so plan to be back on zwift bike soon.
Jeff
I look forward to seeing the pictures. If it’s possible, I’d like you to get those runs up to five a week as soon as you can, even if they are really short. I’ll take a 20 or 30 minute run no problems. I love seeing the new Strava routes.
So do I load the run durability program?
Jeff, I will look into this today and get you set up.
Will you put it here, or directly into finalsurge?
I will tell you here. I only load plans into Final Surge for new athletes and CoachEN level athletes. So here you go!!!
IF you need help loading Plans into Final Surge, here is some guidance: https://www.endurancenation.us/help/loading-specific-plan-weeks-into-your-final-surge-calendar/
Your Races
Training Plans (Updated 06/24/2019 by Coach P)
Once you have loaded those plans, let me know and I can work with you to incorporate Zwift races and some longer weekend rides!
~ Coach P
Looks great, thanks.
OK, let me know if you need any help with stuff. The goal now is to get some of those runs coming in consistently. When I looked at your training log I didn’t see anything for a couple weeks so let’s make sure that the right data is being synced. Also, how much longer until you have the pain cave online?
Great pick up on the data. I actually had a cold the last two weeks and it was in the chest, so I shut it down. Finally hacking up the rest of it so starting tonight. Pain cave goes online tomorrow night. And in the plan day one is run test. I don't feel ready for that just coming off some down time. I have adjusted my run power in the zones down a bit to start, as my Vdot is not what it used to be. I will test later after a few weeks of consistency.
Agreed, let’s get about four weeks in before we do anything with regards to a test. You are savvy enough to be able to discern the right level of effort at this point. I’m not so much worried about a particular number as I am about getting you to be consistent.
Getting over a cough can be a real pain, so feel free to use the bike is that modality to just get the time in. At this point, time on the bike at the same heart rate as the run miles is close enough for me. 👍
Slight change of plan. I am thinking ofdoing the Bad Medicine gravel bike ride in Wyoming September 14. 90 miles and 11000 ft of elevation. I will probably skip the century in August for this. This is the same as Billings 1/2 marathon day. Does this sound like a good plan? Ill keep the red desert run end of september.
@Jeff Horn your epic lifestyle makes Rhode Island seem pretty damn boring! I think it is 100% fine, what changes are you considering to the cycling part of your training plan to get ready? Given the elevation portion, I assume we either need to start adding in pretty hilly rides at the current distance that we have planned, or if you don’t have hills we need to add overall more time to compensate for the extra time on the bike. What do you think?
Epic daydreams P. Trying to find a suitable gravel bike on the cheap before I commit to this. I have a mountain bike, but its a a tad small and dual suspension. I don't plan to race the thing, but would not like to die in the process. Also met a guy at work that may do it with me. He does a fair bit of gravel riding on the local farm / unimproved roads. I don't think there is much elevation gain to be had, so it will be a volume thing. I think that I can tolerate adding an extra day a week of riding into the plan without doing much harm. Can also increase time in saddle on regular days.
Even if it’s daydreams, the more epic the better! After following EBs exploits out at Lake Tahoe, I can’t help but agree with you that the proper equipment is the way to go. I’m not sure how easy it is to find a decent gravel bike on the cheap, but I do know that both @scott dinhofer and @John Withrow know the shortest path to getting you a bike using the Internet. Probably worth checking in with both of them or creating a thread specific to your search.
Not sure if it's too late for this, but... @Jeff Horn how tall are you? or what size road bike do you normally ride... I have a buddy at work that's itching to get a new Gravel bike and he has a decent used one I could probably get you a good deal on. He's 5'-09" and it's a 53cm Niner RLT 9 Ultegra build with Stan's Arch wheels and Hydro Disc brakes that would likely be ~$1,200 shipped.
I'm sure between me and @scott dinhofer we could find you something sweet. Either start a new thread (and tag me and Scott on it), and/or feel free to email me directly at withrow79@yahoo.com or call my cell 646-831-6791 if you want to discuss... Let us know how much $$ you are willing to spend, how tall you are, and/or if you know your size, and anything else specific you're looking for.
#DoEpicShit
@John Withrow thanks for that info. I just got a bike this week. Found one on PROS CLOSET for 1/2 retail. It is a Salsa Warbird 2019. Looks nearly new that I can tell. Kinda heavy with bottom tier components, but great to start out with. Probably need to upgrade wheels but that is all. Thanks for your help.
Great to follow this thread...getting the gravel itch...
Just wanted to provide an update. I started getting ass in gear back in September/October. Just started with some run durability and had a really good 30 days of steady 15 or so mi/week. My diet hadn't changed much, still too much intake of trash into the furnace. Then I got a right calf (soles or medial gastric) strain - had the twinge of doom and had to shut er down. Layed off running for about 10 days and tried again. No go, still with the strain acting up. Layed off for another 2 weeks, and that brings us up to speed. Starting slow, lots of stretching and rolling and babying. I've been adding in the cycling during that time too.
Around the time of the calf issue I decided to make lifestyle change with nutrition (is the high refined carb diet responsible for niggles?). I went LCHF / keto. I read several books (Banting diet by Noakes, good calories bad calories- gary taubes, the art of low carbohydrate living - volek and phinney, and the art of low carbohydrate performance - again by volley and phinney). Pretty interesting stuff. I've lost about 15 lb so far (still overweight by about 15-20lb), sleeping better and better energy and mood through the day. I do cycle in extra carbs on weekends for increased training supposedly. But so far my fitness is struggling. I literally cannot complete a Tues/Thurs workout. Can barely hold 265 watts for 1.5 minutes (that was my ftp a year and a half ago). I can do prolonged rides at no intensity without too much difficulty. I think i am out of the "adaptation" phase of the diet which is only supposed to be about 3 weeks or so. But the struggle bus is real. Maybe answer is don't be so low on the carbs? I have been running <50gm carb M-F and about 100gm on sat / sun. I am going to start experimenting with UCAN before workouts to see if that makes a difference. I've seen some evidence that it is good for keto/lchf due to low insulin response and slower uptake. Part of this diet was me trying to figure out the last 4-5 IM where I have complete and utter disasters at about 3-4hr into the bike. After looking into it, I think that it is just a super bonk. As a high sugar burner (low fat oxidation rate), and lower on the carb intake side during races, I think that those points in the race just correspond to running out of glycogen and feeling horrible. So I guess the goal here with diet and training is to up my fat oxidation rate so that I can preserve as much glycogen during races as possible. I am not a pointy ender, so during race I can stay in the 60-70% VO2 max range and do ok on fat for fuel.
Ok lots of info here, just giving you an update in case you are looking at workouts wondering why so short, why no finish workout? Goal race again is StGeorge. Congrats on Kona and AZ btw!
Making a significant change like moving to Keto is the real deal. On a
macro level, it’s great for your body composition to get out of the normal
dietary habits, and it’s clear that you are already seeing some of those
changes despite a reduced training load. So clearly this is a change that
needed to happen on some level.
That said, I am not a fan of that type of diet when we are also using high
intensity interval‘s to build our fitness. It’s a great approach for people
who are doing ultra events that don’t require any fast twitch work. But at
the end of the day, our muscles want glycogen and they need carbs.
My recommendation would be to Create some kind of pre-workout meal that
will give you the carbs you need to do the work scheduled. This could be
something as simple as a gel and some sports drink that’s taken 15 minutes
before, or perhaps you choose and we’re healthy option that delivers a
similar amount of carbohydrates.
During the work out I recommend that you continue to drink exercise fluids
and fuel accordingly with gel’s, blocks, etc. The minute you finish the
work out, you can go back to being super clean, but there’s nothing wrong
with feeling your body to do the work it needs to do during the time it’s
doing it.
I hope this advice makes sense.
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick thanks for the input. I noticed a yuge difference in weekend workouts after the thanksgiving carb binge. My HR on run was like 10 bpm lower. I think I will stay low carb but bump daily total up quite a bit. It will still be a far cry from where I was. I will also try to time the carb input a little better in relation to pre workout. Will let you know how it goes.
@Jeff Horn -
Hey, how are the diet changes going for you? I'm excited to hear if it's made a difference!
~ Coach P
Yeah, pretty good here. I upped the carbs to be less restrictive, but still much lower than normal for me M-F, maybe up to 80-120 g/ day. Workouts have been going much better. Then I am not restrictive on Sat/Sun...not junk mind you but just not paying close attention to numbers. Weight has hit plateau however. Still have about 15 lb or so to get rid of..halfway there. It will come off hopefully by race time.
@Jeff Horn Thank you for the update. My guess is that you will be able to break through some of that plateau as we change training plans and begin to include more intensity beyond what exists in the run durability program. Today is January 6 – what is your training plan focus right now?
Hello @Coach Patrick !
I am following your IMSG roadmap that you posted a while back. In out season run focus right now, then Ill transition to swim camp on 2/2 and into bike focus full on 2/10. Running has been going well since last calf strain in Oct/Nov. Not much intensity but working on consistency. Calves are feeling good. Finally getting heart rate down. I'm running every day (even if only a mile). Using Theragun quite a bit on the scar tissue in the calves. Seems to help for what it is worth. This week I will start to filter in some intensity to see how they feel, but nervous as always with injury. I start at the gym next week working in some weights too to build up posterior chain, seemed to help last time with this issue.
I can't seem to get the bike in gear however. I am stuck struggling in D category in Zwift, nothing wrong with that, just seems like i was at top of C last year trying to break into B. Now I can barely hold 2.0 for an hour wtf. I think I missed out on intensity build due to the diet thing and feel like I am way behind the curve for some reason.
After StG I will do trail running into summer, then a stupid long running event in August (a pending lottery?) or maybe Boulder 70.3. I have also signed up for Bighorn 100 at end of June which seems dumb now, but didn't when i signed up. Just wanted to try something different. Had this on calendar last year, signed up but didn't even make it to start line last year, so I don't have much expectations other than to participate and see most of the course.
ultrarunning side, but I am aware from your teammates that ultrarunning can
really take away your high-end strength and speed. This is why Tim Sullivan
continues to race on Zwift, especially the shorter events. At the end of
the day, you can’t have everything, it’s more a question of priorities.
With St. George being so close we don’t have a lot of bandwidth to add in
additional intensity, but it could be a six week project we do in the
summer. How do you feel about that?
Ps keep those calves happy!
Yeah I agree, can't do to much intensity, especially as race gets closer. six week project sounds about right.