@Shaughn Simmons ... I've been with Rouvy for 2.5 yrs now. Very different than animated Zwift world. They have group rides, but it is very much a platform for folks who enjoy training alone. And there are probably 50 or more routes for each "world" in Zwift.
Finished up today's bike workout. THAT was tough. Certainly outside of my comfort zone, but I did my best to stick with it. Didn't see the instructions until just now on how to make it a step gradient - made a note of it and it is now in the vault.
ok folks, I spoke with @Coach Patrick today and got the low down on what they intervals on Tuesday are supposed to be. Apparently they Final Surge workouts were missing a key point, you do the intervals as follows.
A prescribed amount of time in Zone 3, then in Zone 4 and then as a "best effort"
so, in theory you are increasing your load up to the point you start the best effort.
for those like me, that haven't done their intervals yet today, here are this week's intervals for all levels. I will post the interval descriptions at the beginning of week 3 & 4 as well.
Build #2 / Week 2:
MS Choose Your Ability Level:
-Level 1: 2 x 10' (3') as 8' @ Zone 3 to @ Zone 4, then 2' @ Zone 4 to Best Effort.
-Level 2: 2 x 12' (4') as 9' @ Zone 3 to @ Zone 4, then 3' @ Zone 4 to Best Effort.
-Level 3: 2 x 15' (5') as 10' @ Zone 3 to @ Zone 4, then 5' @ Zone 4 to Best Effort.
A great day. Started off feeling pretty shelled. Nothing an hour nap with my dog didn't fix. Then bike dated withthe Hubs on Zwift. I will a single for the next 5 days. Finished the 2x15 at 105%ftp. BEtter than last week.
Asked Coach about the EN zwift jersey. He mentioned a "bump" ride on Sunday or Monday. How do I hook that up?
started doing the warm up after having done a 3 mile run (which for me is a big deal right now) and it was clear to me these intervals weren't going to go well. I'll return to the trainer early tomorrow to get em done and will do the Thursday intervals later afternoon so as to spread them as far apart as I can and get on course.
@Jacklyn Moore - you need to look up the EN Zwift schedule and then go to your companion app, sign up for the event and then be on zwift warming up about 10 minutes before the event. a few minutes before, Zwift will bump you into a holding pen with other riders appearing on trainers until the clock counts down to the start and then the fun begins. Finish the race and you will have the EN jersey in your garage. You can also do the full cruise and crush on sunday to get it.
suggest if you are on group me that you go into the zwift channel and ask questions. Way more knowledgeable people in there that will help you much better than I can!
@Andrew Lustigman: I’ve used Training Peaks for many years, and download all of my WKO data from my bike power meter after the ride, as when outside. That gives me a consistent “indoor TSS” for rides that include variable Apps. My Strava power data comes directly from the Apps and is a full 20w below what my power meter, and RPE tells me is the real value. I swagged the Zwift FTP so that the zones on the FS workout reflected those I see on the power meter. I have had no luck with calibration of my Cyclops, and my SRM head unit does not pair with Zwift. There is probably a better way to do this, but I seem to have dialed in the appropriate settings.
@Jeff Phillips : I had reasonable control over my real power during the ramps by using the “up and down” (10% max) buttons on the Zwift menu.
@Paul Hough@Shaughn Simmons There are some great routes on Rouvy... in fact, the entire St George IM Course is available.... as is the climb to Hawi (minus the headwind). Some Rouvy videos are better than others. ie Lake Placid is videoed during an actual race, but it was raining, and water on the lens often obscures the view! Its hard to read the topography, and shifting seems a bit twitchy at times.
Completed 2x15’ in spirit as below. Ramping the power actually made the time go by... although the pain was real.
1x15’ at IF .81–>.94; 1x15’ at IF .97–>1.1. Half-way to the Tron Bike (50,000m is a LOT of climbing)
@scott dinhofer . Thank you. Looks like the Zwift jersey is more of a goal for the end of the OS. I do not have a 2.5w/kg average at this time. I will get one some day.
MAn I am shelled. It's 730 here and im ready for bed. I am so middle aged. 😜
Did the bike after work. Bumped up to L2 WKO since last week felt a little light. L2 seemed just right. I forgot to check my phone battery before I started and the battery ran out with about 4 minutes left in the 2nd interval. That meant I couldn't increase the power, but it also meant I couldn't decrease it either (and yes my brain wanted me to back off). My best guesstimate is that my FTP is 220 ish and I was at 237 for the last 6 minutes. The last couple of minutes felt like the back end of an FTP test so it's probably about right. By the numbers:
1) NP 202, IF .93 Started at 196 and ended at 220.
2) NP 232, IF 1.07 Started at 205 and ended at 232.
Fortunately my legs feel OK after that. The Z3 work didn't feel very hard at all after the slugfest with the gorilla. (They really need to put some gorillas roaming around in Zwift.)
@Mark Maurer do you use phone only for zwift? (didn't know that was possible!) looks like a strong wko and testing your limits!
@Jacklyn Moore do NOT be concerned about the "race" on the CnC, you can do two things. 1-just ride it at your pace, just make sure you do the work one should do in those rides which is hitting the 2 KOMs and 2 sprints on each lap, HARD.. the full ride took me about 1:50 this weekend, so it should be around 2hrs for you i am guessing. 2-you can "weight dope" AL T does this as he's been slowing down. Adjust your weight in the app beofre the ride, so you will get 2.5 w/KG in your "cruising mode."
here is what the workout looked like as I wrote it on Zwift (after speaking with @Coach Patrick yesterday)
and here is what I executed
First, you'll notice that I add spinups into the warm up. Then for the first part of the interval, I increased my effort by 2% every 4"-1min so that at 5mins into the 10' workout I was at the full effort. When the interval switched to the higher intensity interval, I dropped the effort back to the even 100% line in Zwift and again increased the effort 2% every 30" so that at half way through I was at 110% effort for the balance. It's also clear to me from these workouts that I may need to SWAG my FTP do 235 or 240.
NOTE - I will redo the Thursday workouts as per last week and post links to DL there here later today.
Hi @scott dinhofer - looking ahead at next week's Tuesday intervals, the instructions on Final Surge are also missing that key info on the duration of the final best effort interval
Angus, I posting below, the missing instructions here in the thread as P gave them to me yesterday, I will also be updating the workouts in Zwift for each workout and posting them this weekend.
@scott dinhofer : Your work is much appreciated. The updated workouts will be even harder than my swagged efforts... way to lead! That is one great Zwift WKO graph. I need to figure out how to post those... then actually produce one.
@Jacklyn Moore : Its rare to have the opportunity to lose weight with the push of a button! Just set your weight as low as it can go and start the EN Bump Sprint Race. You just need to ride your bike 13mi to unlock the jersey... then you can reset your weight to whatever you feel comfortable, and ride around in the coolest Jersey in the Zwift world.
@scott dinhofer . OOOHHHH. I just might be able to get that done! Thank you. heeeheee.
@John Culberson . Do you know when the BUMP sprint is? I've looked and can't find it. I looked on the campanion ap. and only found the Sunday morning ride. Is it called something else? According to the Zwift forum there should be a SUnday evening and Monday evening ride but that schdule is OLD.
This may sound stupid but isn't SWAGing the weight cheating? I want the jersey but.....
Looking forward to being 16 and weighing nothing. THANKS!
Thanks for providing a breakdown on the intervals @scott dinhofer
I tried Tuesday's ride as the first set of 12' increase by 1% every 1'30" . It went pretty well and you can see I had a nice gradual increase. My HR maxed out at 160 for that set with an IF of .87, VI 1.01 and EF 1.25
The second 12' didn't quite go as well. I was in ERG mode and about midway, I could no longer turn the cranks and clicked off of ERG to finish. I think overall it was OK, but not sure if I did this correctly. The Second set had a max HR of 176, IF of 1.0, VI 1.05 and EF 1.26
@Sabra Gonzalez - if the last 3-5mins of each effort seemed hard, then you did it correctly. I've asked @Coach Patrick in my coaching thread how torturous these are supposed to feel vs a 2x15 FTP interval at .95-1.0. Will report the answer!
your 2nd interval looks great, looks like you executed agove the top of interval 1! no wonder you collect all those jersies on the CNC rides!
hey folks. I created the fixed ride files for week 2 Thursday rides in Zwift format only. Get them from this Google drive link. Download and place in the folder you have for zwift workouts and select yes for replacing a file with the same name. with the zwift bug, these may show in your list in the app as a 2019 week two WKO.
@Jacklyn Moore Bump Sprint is Mon at 6:15 CST. You can stay in Zn 1, finish, and be wearing your jersey for your normal Tuesday JOS WKO. No pressure to race or even ride hard. @Al Truscott assured me that "weight doping is not cheating" unless you are racing. It is a means to stay with the group and enjoy the Team. The amount of weight that you subtract is up to you. The less weight that you "lose," the harder you will work. Err on the side of "doping" a bit more in the beginning... the group always seems to move at a pace considerably faster than advertised, although there is usually a good-sized group who are not out for blood. The CnC is advertised at 2.5-3w/kg. A rule of thumb might be to be riding 3w/kg early during your second interval on Thursday. Beware, for many, the Bump Race is pretty much all-out from the start!
I'll just add for @scott dinhofer that I use my phone just for running in Zwift. Download the program then carry to the gym or use the TM at home. With Bluetooth from Stryd and Garmin HRM I can take Zwift portable for the run and still capture HR, cadence ect. just using iPhone
@John Culberson . Thank you so much! This sounds like so much fun! Really looking forward to it. It's on the calender.
Bagged on spin class tonight due to the weather. It's NASTY! Daughter asked me to stay home. THe4 wind is bothering her. Can't say NO to my best girl. WIll do tomorrows bike as scheduled. Have a great time everyone!
@scott dinhofer mentioned weight doping for the EN rides (which are otherwise too hard for me to keep with the group). How does one do this (i.e., I assume you lower your weight - but is there a particular correlation)?
A number of you have said you did the WKO at .95 -1.0. What is this referencing?
Thanks for the insight. I appreciate all the knowledge on this thread.
@Andrew Lustigman I've never weight doped in Zwift, but essentially you drop your weight in profile until you arrive at similar watts/ kg that you believe will be necessary to hold during the ride. You're still doing the exact same work, it just makes it easier for you to stay with a group. You'll hear the team say it's okay to weight dope for group rides, but not for races.
The .95-1.0 refers to Intensity Factor (IF), which is your Normalized Power (NP) for the workout divided by your Functional Threshold Power (FTP). A 1.0 IF for an interval means that set was done at FTP. Closer to and above 1.0 is obviously harder work. If you use Training Peaks, the software calculates IF for you if your training zones are input correctly. Training Peaks also has quick posts on a host of cycling power-based acronyms -- IF, NP, TSS, FTP, etc.
For a real life example, in an IM you'll see people race that anywhere from .65-.75 IF, depending on their overall bike strength and ability.
Comments
@Shaughn Simmons ... I've been with Rouvy for 2.5 yrs now. Very different than animated Zwift world. They have group rides, but it is very much a platform for folks who enjoy training alone. And there are probably 50 or more routes for each "world" in Zwift.
Finished up today's bike workout. THAT was tough. Certainly outside of my comfort zone, but I did my best to stick with it. Didn't see the instructions until just now on how to make it a step gradient - made a note of it and it is now in the vault.
ok folks, I spoke with @Coach Patrick today and got the low down on what they intervals on Tuesday are supposed to be. Apparently they Final Surge workouts were missing a key point, you do the intervals as follows.
A prescribed amount of time in Zone 3, then in Zone 4 and then as a "best effort"
so, in theory you are increasing your load up to the point you start the best effort.
for those like me, that haven't done their intervals yet today, here are this week's intervals for all levels. I will post the interval descriptions at the beginning of week 3 & 4 as well.
Build #2 / Week 2:
MS Choose Your Ability Level:
-Level 1: 2 x 10' (3') as 8' @ Zone 3 to @ Zone 4, then 2' @ Zone 4 to Best Effort.
-Level 2: 2 x 12' (4') as 9' @ Zone 3 to @ Zone 4, then 3' @ Zone 4 to Best Effort.
-Level 3: 2 x 15' (5') as 10' @ Zone 3 to @ Zone 4, then 5' @ Zone 4 to Best Effort.
A great day. Started off feeling pretty shelled. Nothing an hour nap with my dog didn't fix. Then bike dated withthe Hubs on Zwift. I will a single for the next 5 days. Finished the 2x15 at 105%ftp. BEtter than last week.
Asked Coach about the EN zwift jersey. He mentioned a "bump" ride on Sunday or Monday. How do I hook that up?
Great job today.
started doing the warm up after having done a 3 mile run (which for me is a big deal right now) and it was clear to me these intervals weren't going to go well. I'll return to the trainer early tomorrow to get em done and will do the Thursday intervals later afternoon so as to spread them as far apart as I can and get on course.
@Jacklyn Moore - you need to look up the EN Zwift schedule and then go to your companion app, sign up for the event and then be on zwift warming up about 10 minutes before the event. a few minutes before, Zwift will bump you into a holding pen with other riders appearing on trainers until the clock counts down to the start and then the fun begins. Finish the race and you will have the EN jersey in your garage. You can also do the full cruise and crush on sunday to get it.
suggest if you are on group me that you go into the zwift channel and ask questions. Way more knowledgeable people in there that will help you much better than I can!
@Andrew Lustigman: I’ve used Training Peaks for many years, and download all of my WKO data from my bike power meter after the ride, as when outside. That gives me a consistent “indoor TSS” for rides that include variable Apps. My Strava power data comes directly from the Apps and is a full 20w below what my power meter, and RPE tells me is the real value. I swagged the Zwift FTP so that the zones on the FS workout reflected those I see on the power meter. I have had no luck with calibration of my Cyclops, and my SRM head unit does not pair with Zwift. There is probably a better way to do this, but I seem to have dialed in the appropriate settings.
@Jeff Phillips : I had reasonable control over my real power during the ramps by using the “up and down” (10% max) buttons on the Zwift menu.
@Paul Hough @Shaughn Simmons There are some great routes on Rouvy... in fact, the entire St George IM Course is available.... as is the climb to Hawi (minus the headwind). Some Rouvy videos are better than others. ie Lake Placid is videoed during an actual race, but it was raining, and water on the lens often obscures the view! Its hard to read the topography, and shifting seems a bit twitchy at times.
Completed 2x15’ in spirit as below. Ramping the power actually made the time go by... although the pain was real.
1x15’ at IF .81–>.94; 1x15’ at IF .97–>1.1. Half-way to the Tron Bike (50,000m is a LOT of climbing)
@scott dinhofer . Thank you. Looks like the Zwift jersey is more of a goal for the end of the OS. I do not have a 2.5w/kg average at this time. I will get one some day.
MAn I am shelled. It's 730 here and im ready for bed. I am so middle aged. 😜
Did the bike after work. Bumped up to L2 WKO since last week felt a little light. L2 seemed just right. I forgot to check my phone battery before I started and the battery ran out with about 4 minutes left in the 2nd interval. That meant I couldn't increase the power, but it also meant I couldn't decrease it either (and yes my brain wanted me to back off). My best guesstimate is that my FTP is 220 ish and I was at 237 for the last 6 minutes. The last couple of minutes felt like the back end of an FTP test so it's probably about right. By the numbers:
1) NP 202, IF .93 Started at 196 and ended at 220.
2) NP 232, IF 1.07 Started at 205 and ended at 232.
Fortunately my legs feel OK after that. The Z3 work didn't feel very hard at all after the slugfest with the gorilla. (They really need to put some gorillas roaming around in Zwift.)
@Mark Maurer do you use phone only for zwift? (didn't know that was possible!) looks like a strong wko and testing your limits!
@Jacklyn Moore do NOT be concerned about the "race" on the CnC, you can do two things. 1-just ride it at your pace, just make sure you do the work one should do in those rides which is hitting the 2 KOMs and 2 sprints on each lap, HARD.. the full ride took me about 1:50 this weekend, so it should be around 2hrs for you i am guessing. 2-you can "weight dope" AL T does this as he's been slowing down. Adjust your weight in the app beofre the ride, so you will get 2.5 w/KG in your "cruising mode."
My Tuesday workout.
here is what the workout looked like as I wrote it on Zwift (after speaking with @Coach Patrick yesterday)
and here is what I executed
First, you'll notice that I add spinups into the warm up. Then for the first part of the interval, I increased my effort by 2% every 4"-1min so that at 5mins into the 10' workout I was at the full effort. When the interval switched to the higher intensity interval, I dropped the effort back to the even 100% line in Zwift and again increased the effort 2% every 30" so that at half way through I was at 110% effort for the balance. It's also clear to me from these workouts that I may need to SWAG my FTP do 235 or 240.
NOTE - I will redo the Thursday workouts as per last week and post links to DL there here later today.
@scott dinhofer I was using my phone to run Zwift Companion and adjust the bias with that. Zwift was running on the computer.
Hi @scott dinhofer - looking ahead at next week's Tuesday intervals, the instructions on Final Surge are also missing that key info on the duration of the final best effort interval
thanks
Angus
Angus, I posting below, the missing instructions here in the thread as P gave them to me yesterday, I will also be updating the workouts in Zwift for each workout and posting them this weekend.
@scott dinhofer : Your work is much appreciated. The updated workouts will be even harder than my swagged efforts... way to lead! That is one great Zwift WKO graph. I need to figure out how to post those... then actually produce one.
@Jacklyn Moore : Its rare to have the opportunity to lose weight with the push of a button! Just set your weight as low as it can go and start the EN Bump Sprint Race. You just need to ride your bike 13mi to unlock the jersey... then you can reset your weight to whatever you feel comfortable, and ride around in the coolest Jersey in the Zwift world.
@scott dinhofer . OOOHHHH. I just might be able to get that done! Thank you. heeeheee.
@John Culberson . Do you know when the BUMP sprint is? I've looked and can't find it. I looked on the campanion ap. and only found the Sunday morning ride. Is it called something else? According to the Zwift forum there should be a SUnday evening and Monday evening ride but that schdule is OLD.
This may sound stupid but isn't SWAGing the weight cheating? I want the jersey but.....
Looking forward to being 16 and weighing nothing. THANKS!
Thanks for providing a breakdown on the intervals @scott dinhofer
I tried Tuesday's ride as the first set of 12' increase by 1% every 1'30" . It went pretty well and you can see I had a nice gradual increase. My HR maxed out at 160 for that set with an IF of .87, VI 1.01 and EF 1.25
The second 12' didn't quite go as well. I was in ERG mode and about midway, I could no longer turn the cranks and clicked off of ERG to finish. I think overall it was OK, but not sure if I did this correctly. The Second set had a max HR of 176, IF of 1.0, VI 1.05 and EF 1.26
@Sabra Gonzalez - if the last 3-5mins of each effort seemed hard, then you did it correctly. I've asked @Coach Patrick in my coaching thread how torturous these are supposed to feel vs a 2x15 FTP interval at .95-1.0. Will report the answer!
your 2nd interval looks great, looks like you executed agove the top of interval 1! no wonder you collect all those jersies on the CNC rides!
hey folks. I created the fixed ride files for week 2 Thursday rides in Zwift format only. Get them from this Google drive link. Download and place in the folder you have for zwift workouts and select yes for replacing a file with the same name. with the zwift bug, these may show in your list in the app as a 2019 week two WKO.
all THREE levels have separate workouts
Ride ON!!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-RfLBq-NBUMbJwG7NbKe9mzLUAnVaEIJ
@Jacklyn Moore Bump Sprint is Mon at 6:15 CST. You can stay in Zn 1, finish, and be wearing your jersey for your normal Tuesday JOS WKO. No pressure to race or even ride hard. @Al Truscott assured me that "weight doping is not cheating" unless you are racing. It is a means to stay with the group and enjoy the Team. The amount of weight that you subtract is up to you. The less weight that you "lose," the harder you will work. Err on the side of "doping" a bit more in the beginning... the group always seems to move at a pace considerably faster than advertised, although there is usually a good-sized group who are not out for blood. The CnC is advertised at 2.5-3w/kg. A rule of thumb might be to be riding 3w/kg early during your second interval on Thursday. Beware, for many, the Bump Race is pretty much all-out from the start!
I just select a similar erg workout on Rouvy and follow that. Eg., here is what I am doing tomorrow.
I'll just add for @scott dinhofer that I use my phone just for running in Zwift. Download the program then carry to the gym or use the TM at home. With Bluetooth from Stryd and Garmin HRM I can take Zwift portable for the run and still capture HR, cadence ect. just using iPhone
@scott dinhofer Thanks for getting clarification on the Tues. intervals.
@John Culberson . Thank you so much! This sounds like so much fun! Really looking forward to it. It's on the calender.
Bagged on spin class tonight due to the weather. It's NASTY! Daughter asked me to stay home. THe4 wind is bothering her. Can't say NO to my best girl. WIll do tomorrows bike as scheduled. Have a great time everyone!
It was very different (like 215 on Zwift and 285 on TP). I've now set them to be the same (215), and selected the Andy Coogan method.
Two questions:
@scott dinhofer mentioned weight doping for the EN rides (which are otherwise too hard for me to keep with the group). How does one do this (i.e., I assume you lower your weight - but is there a particular correlation)?
A number of you have said you did the WKO at .95 -1.0. What is this referencing?
Thanks for the insight. I appreciate all the knowledge on this thread.
@Andrew Lustigman I've never weight doped in Zwift, but essentially you drop your weight in profile until you arrive at similar watts/ kg that you believe will be necessary to hold during the ride. You're still doing the exact same work, it just makes it easier for you to stay with a group. You'll hear the team say it's okay to weight dope for group rides, but not for races.
The .95-1.0 refers to Intensity Factor (IF), which is your Normalized Power (NP) for the workout divided by your Functional Threshold Power (FTP). A 1.0 IF for an interval means that set was done at FTP. Closer to and above 1.0 is obviously harder work. If you use Training Peaks, the software calculates IF for you if your training zones are input correctly. Training Peaks also has quick posts on a host of cycling power-based acronyms -- IF, NP, TSS, FTP, etc.
For a real life example, in an IM you'll see people race that anywhere from .65-.75 IF, depending on their overall bike strength and ability.
@Andrew Lustigman - gotta get you going on power metrics and what these mean. @Jeff Phillips does a good job of explaining this.
It's all in relation to your FTP.
if your FTP is 215, and you do an interval at 215, thats a 1.0 IF. Intensity factor is essentially the % of FTP you rode something at.
if you are not struggling with a high HR (for me this is 164-168) at the end of your last interval, your FTP is likely set too low.
Great questions/responses here. So much wisdom.
Thurs bike OS done.
Good luck today all!
@Andrew Lustigman - poked through the wiki and came up with this page -
since you aren't going to VT this weekend, I suggest you dive into some of these webinars and increase your knowledge base!