JOS 2020 Bike Week 3-Free your mind & your leg's will follow!
Rule 6 - Free your mind & your leg's will follow!
Here we begin week 3, everyone getting used to the OS. The title of this thread does describe what we are doing continually in the OS. Every trainer ride, every run is the same theme, finding our limits and doing hard work at those levels and beyond. The key here is not just the physical work, but the mental challenge of learning to find your limits, or do an interval that you thought you couldn't.
We all place limits on ourselves, or allow others to do it for us. You Can't, I can't, that's not possible. How many times have we read a workout or started an interval we found difficult to get our arms around, but managed to find the mental fortitude to push through? The OS is as much about the mental training of disciplined execution as it is the physical work... Ride on!
Comments
Thanks @scott dinhofer !
The instructions for tomorrow's bike WKO on final surge are:
-Level 1: 3 x 8' (3') @ Zone 3, @ Zone 4, then Best Effort.
-Level 2: 3 x 10' (3') @ Zone 3, @ Zone 4, then Best Effort.
-Level 3: 3 x 12' (4')@ Zone 3, @ Zone 4, then Best Effort.
is that correct?
Thanks!
The goal statement in the workout says:
"Goal here is to build so that your last interval, and last half of that last interval, is your best effort. Cap effort at 120% of your maximum threshold power, or the equivalent."
I know there has been some discussion about what that means. The way I have interpreted the workout for L3 is that you do 3 x 12'.
First interval starts at low end of Z3 and builds to between Z3 and Z4.
Second interval starts between Z3 and Z4 and builds to top end of Z4.
Last interval starts at top end of Z4 and builds to best effort capping at 120% of your FTP.
Last week was 2 x 15. Did those as first interval built from bottom of Z3 to top end Z4 and second interval was from top end of Z4 to best effort.
That's how I have done it based on the information that was originally in the plans. Some things have changed in the plans based on @scott dinhofer discussions with Coach P so I will defer to him to give the correct answer.
A lot of great work going on last week!! So motivating!! Last week was a little busy and missed a couple of days early in the week. Only got in the build session and the sweet spot session. Decided not to try to cram everything in at the end just to do it. Glad I did because I am feeling good and ready for this week.
Last week got a little bump in the FTP based on the build interval session from 215 to 225. Things have been feeling like they were easing up and it was proven by the work in that session.
@Bill Eckert given the brevity if @Coach Patrick ’s reply, you may be correct. I actually think you are. Going to nudge coach to chime in here. One issue is that the peeps that wrote the zwift and TR files didn’t interpret it as you have. I DO like your interpretation.
Last weeks build intervals. I kept looking at the workout and thinking there was no way I could complete it. I finally just got going and pushed through it. It was not easy and definitely at the limits.
@Bill Eckert That's interesting, because my interpretation in the first week was to do each interval harder than the previous, but not to increase the effort within each interval. Then last week I ramped them up, because that was the message coming from @scott dinhofer . But looking at the instructions on FS, it does seem to read interval 1 at Zone 3, interval 2 at Zone 4, Interval 3 go for it (capped at 1.2).
Would be good to get @Coach Patrick to lay down the law!
Here's to another good week!
@John Katsoudas I have been thinking about using the ramp up instead of the multiple intervals. I like the ramp up because it is easier to build the workout and it gives a more consistent build. Mentally, sometimes I just like having the multiple mini blocks as it helps me get through the interval.
There is no wrong here in the intervals as we are doing serious work, @Bill Eckert raises thenpont of a portion of interval 3 being above threshold
With the holiday, I did Tuesday's ride today. This statement by @scott dinhofer was certainly true for the third interval.
How many times have we read a workout or started an interval we found difficult to get our arms around, but managed to find the mental fortitude to push through?
I managed to get through the third interval without reducing the watts on companion. I decided not to even have the app open, lest I be tempted. I made it!
Ride on!
@Angus Whitfield that's how I initially read it also, and how I did the first few WO's. After reading @scott dinhofer's comments here I tried the last one as ramps in each interval. Can't say I prefer one over the other, and I agree that they're both serious work. For me, the ramp method may allow me to push the intervals harder. Sort of like the "frog in the pot". I don't realize how much harder it's getting because it's increasing gradually and almost imperceptibly at first.
after reading this thread and the thread about week 2, I’m completely confused about what I’m supposed to be doing. I’ve just done the workouts as they were created. Is there an updated wko file to upload into zwift? I’m confused about changing the FTP and increasing the intensity. Is there a way to create the zwo file to do an increase? I have wondered how these files are created to work for everyone with a different FTP. I’m not familiar with how all this works. I just want to get on my bike and ride. 🤷🏻♂️
please let me know if there are updated files. I’m not very good at navigating these forums.
@Jay Tolin -
1-don't worry, if you are achieving a high heart rate and feel like you are really struggling for the last half to third of your last interval, you are doing good work. There isn't really anything empirical about the small differences of one interval style vs another. So long as you are working at or near FTP for the extended periods of time.
2-the programs are written as %s intensity of FTP. So they adjust for anyone. This is why it's important that you ARE finding the intervals to be hard. You shouldn't be buried in the first 2 minutes of a 2x15, but you should feel like you can't get through the 2nd 15 and find that you are making deals with yourself to get through the next minute starting around minute 5 or 6, and then the next one, and then you realize you will finish the interval!
3-Crank up the queen song, and get on your bike and ride!
@John Katsoudas - i'm gonna be thinking about that frog during tomorrow's intervals!
good work @Andrew Lustigman - you missed nothing in Vermont except for huge crowds & ridiculous traffic coming down.. trying to motivate to do Tuesday intervals today since I have an abbreviated week with plane travel on Thursday to the promised land (Vail)
@scott dinhofer thanks for the feedback. I do feel that the intervals have been right on target. I am curious to know how you make the files.
Agree that starting with Zn3, spending solid time in Zn4, and getting a several min in Zn5 is the point. @scott dinhofer is right. It will be easy to know if you are doing enough work. By the end of week 4, you should be standing in the shadow of the Gorilla. The details are not as important as giving it your all, consistently hitting as many workouts as possible, and calling time out when the Gorilla decks you. Of course it should probably be a 30s timeout!
I built a workout that included 12’@low to high Zn3, 12’@low to high Zn4, and 12’@low Zn4 to IF 1.2. All are steady ramps, and I started the third interval at low Zn4 because there will be significant time above FTP as it is! I considered braking interval 3 into blocks of increasing intensity. I’ll see how it goes tomorrow. @Jay Tolin I spent 30min of trial and error, and got it down... go to the Zwift training menu, select custom workout and point, click, and drag stuff. Power values from the Final Surge workout can be assigned to the beginning and end of the “ramp” that is typically used as a warm-up. Probably easier on a computer.
Used the holiday to put in a 30’ sweet spot workout on the Sufferfest this morning. Brought my TSS total up to “as scheduled” last week. Worked up a single headband sweat, so I should be recovered for tomorrow.
@John Culberson . Thank you for helping me figure out the Bump race on Zwift. It was fun!
Rode it similiar to tomorrows ride. NP-141 w. HR 154. Finished 23/29. Not bad for my first race. Jersey earned! Thank you.
@Jacklyn Moore Boom!
@John Culberson Created one with 3 blocks of 3:40 ramping up and 1 block steady for 1 minute at the peak of the interval.
I like @scott dinhofer spin up's in the warm up. Modified his version a little to fit me.
As for whether to ramp up or stay steady in the interval I think it makes no difference as @scott dinhofer has said. You are doing the work either way. If you look at the average watts from one of the ramp up intervals it will be very close to the same as holding steady for the interval. I like the ramp up because it lets me build into the interval. My mind just has an easier time with the changes, whether it be in the ramp up, the multiple blocks, or a combination of the two. I would say it makes it feel easier but there is nothing physically easy about these build intervals. Not trying to confuse anyone or suggest that anyone do the workout this way but sharing below for anyone who wants to take a look.
Link to file for Level 3 if anyone wants to download it.
L3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jafpfv5v3tdr4ki/2020_OS_L3_BF_Wk03_Tue.zwo?dl=0
Also modified the workout for L1 and L2.
L1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iew55tto5bly5il/2020_OS_L1_BF_Wk03_Tue.zwo?dl=0
L2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3s5vynqoyrecujz/2020_OS_L2_BF_Wk03_Tue.zwo?dl=0
Good luck!
The Alpe du Zwift freed my mind this morning....good luck all today!
I really like what @Bill Eckert did. I did a little different edit on my workout. I divided the 12 minutes into 3x4min sets and I did 82,97, and 110% of FTP for the 3 sets. I like what Bill did better. I had this set so that I spent 12 minutes in each zone, but with his you spend more time consecutively.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0yabum4bjzwbfr/3x12__4___build_Z3_Z4_Z5.zwo?dl=0
Tuesday bike done; 3X10' as build intervals starting in Zn3 and finishing in Zn5.
Averages were .93, .93, .94. HR says it was a good wko.
I got the bike done today, 3x12' intervals, but with all the discussion yesterday and the previous two weeks, who knows if I did them "correctly" or as planned. I think I was a little lite, but see below:
Interval 1: 4 min at 90% FTP, 4 min 95% FTP, 4 min at FTP
Interval 2: 10 min at FTP, 2 min at 104% FTP
Interval 3: 6 min at FTP, 2 min at 104%, 2 min at 105%, 2 min at 106%
This was hard, but given above, it seems others may be pushing to that 120% of FTP for some time in Interval 3. I'll modify next week and see how it goes.
Tuesday workout done! That was tough. FTP is right where it needs to be.
Results:
Current FTP is 225.
Interval 1: Avg Power 193, IF 0.86, my Z3 is 180-191.
Interval 2: Avg Power 213, IF 0.95, my Z4 is 214-225.
Interval 3: Avg Power 252, IF 1.13, my Z5 is 248-270.
(The last three minutes were bruuutal! Avg power was 272)
As I was doing this I could not decide if I liked the steps like I did last week or these ramps. With the steps you get a chance to settle in for a couple minutes before moving up. With the ramps it is more of a consistent build like @Jay Tolin said. I felt like the 3:40 mini intervals were almost too long, I really do like a lot of small accomplishments adding up to the bigger accomplishment. I still say there is no right or wrong here. Whatever works for you, gets the work done, and keeps you healthy for the next training session is what you should do.
Ride on!
Nice work @Bill Eckert! I think you did the workout correctly. Last week I did the second 15 minutes at 110%, which was crazy hard. I wish I'd done this with ramps as you did.
@Bill Eckert With the “ramp offense” it seems like your IF’s for each interval were perfect! Great work!
Got in 3X10 becoming a HR athlete as my power meter or head unit is screwed. Hard workout so I know I was in the right place. Problem is with my last time off it seems my max HR has dropped fairly significantly. Some of this I believe is my muscular endurance and not being able to push up the HR as well, but I fear I 've lost those beats for good.
Things are going in the proper direction as the HR is becoming sticky going up during intervals and is dropping faster during the recovery intervals.
Two more things to look in to for my power meter then I've got to start looking at a new unit.
I'm a couple days ahead of everyone here (one of the perks of being a stay-at-home dad is getting to shift the Sat/Sun workouts to Thurs/Fri) so I just finished the Wk3 Thurs WO. I think I'm underestimating my FTP as I haven't tested in a loooong time. I tweaked the WO to have two 18' ramps from 0.85 to 1.0 of estimated FTP. the first block felt downright easy. HR never got above 160 even at the end of the block (should be in the 170's if I'm pushing close to FTP). I bumped up the bias by 4% on the second block to boost the wattage by 10W or so. Got HR up to the high 160's by the end of the second block but never got even close to that place where I was making deals with the devil to make it one more minute. I think I may throw in an FTP ramp test some time next week to see what's up.
I was feeling all good about myself, so I hopped on the Vasa and reminded myself just how bad a swimmer I am :-(
Tuesdays bike session done - level 1. Was concerned I'd need to punt the workout due to some work stressors, but I knew it would feel good to get it done...and it did. I dialed up effort during the intervals in Zwift companion, but at some point realized I was not in erg mode and had some challenges getting it to switch to and stay in erg mode. This was finally solved midway through the second interval. Had to crank up the music for the third interval, but I continued to ramp up the effort and got the HR pretty high in the process.
Last night i rode a Zwift EN race to earn an EN bike jersey. It was a 13.4 mile loop. Took 38 minutes. I started out for 3 minutes at 250 watts. Then settled in. Was able to hold 145 watts most of the ride. HR 150's. Felt like an FTP test!
Because of yesterdays ride I just ran today. Legs were LEAD. Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield. I was the bug today. I have spin class tomorrow. The rumor mill says my class mates have something planned for my birthday. Planning on a morning run.
#CPR#gorilla
Felt good today so modified the TrainerRoad L3 to:
Interval 1: 12@100%
Interval 2: 6@102%, 6@104%
Interval 3: 3@104%, 3@106%, 3@108%, 3@110%
Tough at the end, but +13 NP and -5 avg HR from the first week's Tuesday intervals so that's encouraging!
Could someone kindly post when the EN rides on Zwift are scheduled? Thanks