Do I need WKO5?
I am an enthusiastic user of WKO4. I am one of the 45% of athletes who don't conform to the FTP = 95% of 20 min TT Pnorm, done 10 mins after a 5 mins all out test. (For example, on Sunday on my long ride I did 20 mins Pnorm = 185 watts, but WKO4 'only' gave my new FTP as 168 watts).
I use WKO4 to estimate my FTP by using ad-hoc tests following the WKO4 suggestions for informal testing (that is WKO4 gives a proposed target power for each of a short duration, a medium duration, and a long duration).
I also use WKO4 to provide interval targets (power as well as duration) for intervals at FTP power, and as well as power levels higher than FTP.
I am not a coach and therefore I use the EN Plans in Final Surge, but modify some of the intervals based on WKO4 data.
So I am reaching out to higher level users of WKO5 to ask, would getting WKO5 be helpful to me?
Cheers
Comments
@Peter Greagg I'm not a power user of WKO/TP. But I have been tracking data through them for longer than I can remember, at least a decade. I bought WKO 5 when it came out last year, but did not switch over until the start of my current season (Dec '19), once I noticed that it seemed to treat some cumulative data, like swim TSS, differently. I wanted to have a consistent look for the entire 2019 season.
I use WKO mainly for tracking what used to be called the Performance Management Chart (TSB, CTL, ATL, etc.) I also pay attention to the Ramp rate, my suggested FTP, and newer metrics such as Time to Exhaustion and Stamina. I'm not a numbers geek, I'd rather just work as hard as I should, every day, and WKO helps with that.
The difference I noticed from 4 to 5 is, it's faster, and easier to use. I have stopped creating new charts to delve into the arcana of training, so I don't know if that process is any easier. But for the speed alone, it was worth the $$ I spent. I do not use the online TP, I'd rather pay up front than subscribe.
I’ve been a WKO user for years. I tend to deep dive for a while, learn a bunch, find some useful ideas then drop it for a while. I also bought WKO5 when it came out. I just think it makes sense to keep up with the changing technology and I think the value for price is pretty amazing.
WKO5 has a different look and feel than WKO4 and it took me some time to get used to it. Now I love it.
I invest a lot of time listening to the webinars they put on and always learn a lot. With such a sophisticated program there is always more to learn and I always come away with a nugget of knowledge. As you know, you can use WKO superficially or spend lots of time and become a power user. I’m somewhere in the middle. I tend to take ideas/charts from others and modify them. If you follow along with their FaceBook group there is always a nugget or two to be had.
You have to be careful because it can quickly become a black hole for time.
For running, Stryd just revamped their reporting system. I had designed much of that analysis in WKO, mostly by copying bike reports and changing expressions from “bikepower “ to “runpower “.
In cycling, I’ve stopped measuring FTP and rely on their modeled FTP or mFTP. It requires work to keep the power duration curve accurate. There are charts that tell you how to keep it updated. Their new iLevels help focus on effort levels, duration, and number of repeats for intervals.
I've taken webinars on keeping the model clean, improving FTP, TTE, and Stamina, report writing, Functional Reserve Capacity to name but a few. All give me something to think about. You still have to do the work, but I find the insights really help with staying focused.
I should add, there is a good introduction webinar here: https://youtu.be/4_ixu9OaHGM
Also, the power duration curve modeling has been updated so you should expect minor differences in iLevels, mFTP, PMC, and other such metrics. The original analysis was done by Coggan I believe and his data set was pretty heavy with talented athletes. The new WKO5 PDC algorithm was based off a much larger sample size and includes a much wider variety of athletes.
@Peter Greagg If PDC, interval targets, and mFTP is all you want out of WKO then WKO4 is good enough. I have both, WKO5 user interface is a little nicer and it runs some of the more complicated analyses faster, like when you are comparing large timeframes to each other or doing specialized charts etc. The intro webinar Tom posted above gives you a good overview. If you want to see more or something else we can do a I zoom video call, I can share my screen and we can talk about whatever you interested in. Although, there was or might be a deal from Training Peaks now if you just can't resist.
@matt limbert, i had WKO4 but never really invested the time to learn and found it pretty hard to navigate if you were not an expect. I upgraded to WKO5, it has a much more user friendly UI, I've started reading their materials / webinars but if you were to orgnazie a zoom training with @Peter Greagg and others I would like to attend if you don't mind. thanks
@Vincent Sivirine Sounds good. Let's set sometime later this week.
@matt limbert I would be interested in attending too if you set a zoom. Thanks
@Julien P @Vincent Sivirine How about this Thurs 23 April. Anytime after 3pm ET.
That works for me!
Works for me as well. Thanks
@matt limbert , I’d be happy to join in if you want/need someone else with WKO5 experience.
As you know, I’m pretty comfortable with it, but certainly not an expert!
I’ve spent some part of this quarantine cleaning up all my charts and dashboards to make it easier to get around.
if it’s just a one on one thing, no need for me to pile on.
tom
@Julien P @Vincent Sivirine @Tom Glynn @Peter Carroll
How about tomorrow 23 April. 3pm EST I'll send out a google hangout invite
Thanks @matt limbert, talk to you at 3pm EST today.
@matt limbert i really apologize but i have to attend a 3.30 meeting. If we meet today could we meet anytime after 4.30? thanks
@Vincent Sivirine 4:30 ET. Sounds good.
Works for me too (albeit I would likely be 10-15 mins late) - is there a hangout?
@Julien P @Vincent Sivirine I will send the link around 4:30.
Sign me up for next time!
I haven't been checking the forums as much as I'd like lately, so hopefully I'll catch the next one!
I want to be a WKO4 (and maybe wko5) expert!
@Scott Alexander We can do something this week or next. Anytime after 3 ET works for me.
@Julien P @Tom Glynn @Vincent Sivirine@Scott Alexander
Here is the link to the WKO5 webinars
Here is the link to the WKO5 education center. (Look through the tabs: 'Gettting Started," "Individualize Your Training", Coach and Train .... those are all have a video lesson.)
The best dashboards to get started with are:
-Power Duration Model
-Interval Targeting Dashboard
Those will do the most to help you clean up your PDC curve and give you accurate interval power and duration targets.
Thank you. While researching this a bit more I came across this case study. The article includes 2 dashboards that can be downloaded - they cover the same type of data. I like the one that shows which MMP bests I lost over the last 7 days (it can help build some intuition on why metrics move the way they do and guide which part of the curve is likely to require more focus)
@Julien P@Tom Glynn@Scott Alexander@matt limbert
Thank you. Next week works better for me, any day as well after 3 or 4pm, or this Friday after 3 ET.
My knowledge of WKO5 has grown exponentially since we last spoke (but the bar was low...). I have watched the webinars, read a lot, i have created my own views for run, bike and indoor bike and even used Tom's advice on how to customize reports by taking a bike report and making it run specific. I'm also spending more time trying to understand / interpret the data and how it should be reflected in my workouts (although for now i literally execute these workouts that are part of @Coach Patrick 's plans (i'm doing the Run Focus Plan, All Abilities (6wks) right now since IMMT is postponed and my first race is 70.3 NC in October (if it happens).
I know that WKO5 is really all about power but are there reports that would give me my run threshold pace (i'm using my 10k PR pace but maybe there is something more specific i could use), and my lactate threshold (for bike and for run) (so pace and HR metrics)?
Looking forward to our next discussion,
@Vincent Sivirine for some run ideas:
for one of my go to charts, I took the PD History Metrics chart for cycling and converted it to running. It looks at metrics over the last 90 days including mF TP, sFTP, TTE, FRC and a few others. (I’m on a bike focus so my run data is pretty bad!)
Another good one is the Critical Run Power & Pace chart. That’s available in WKO
Is this the kind of info you are looking for?
Thanks @Tom Glynn, this is great for pace. I need to find something similar for heart rate if available in WKO
@Vincent Sivirine I don’t do much heart rate analysis. I just looked through the WKO chart library and nothing jumped out at me. I can dig through the Facebook group file section too.
If you can describe the perfect chart I can try my best to create it - no guarantees though - my expression expertise is hit and miss! If I can’t figure it out, maybe someone else can..
@matt limbert @Al Truscott @Tom Glynn
First up, thanks for your considered replies. I really appreciate it. It is the thing that makes the Team so great.
And I am so sorry for the deafening silence on my part. At 68 years old with a 50 year history of slowly deteriorating right knee, my knee collapsed again just after I posted the question.
I fell into a major Pity Party and sulk. My surgeon told me last time I saw him (about 5 years ago), that when I saw him next, it would be for a knee replacement, and that he wouldn't let me run again.
So I thought I wouldn't be able to bike or run again, and wouldn't be needing WKO4, or WKO5 either.
Anyhow, just back from seeing the surgeon with Xrays and MRI. He is going to do some serious re-working of my knee. Yes it has serious arthritis, and the lower leg isn't in line with the upper leg (it is bent inwards). He is going to correct that, and with a clean-up, he is certain I will be able to keep riding. As well, he is quite confident, with proper re-hab, that I will be able to keep running for years. Although, he said it will probably take 12 months to completely recover my running.
So, thank you again.
Peter
@Peter Greagg , sounds like a bad news, good news kind of thing. Having the ability to continue riding and running is huge. If it had to happen sometime, now is a pretty good time with race season no where in site.
I’ve used a bunch of my additional downtime to deep dive into Stryd, WKO, Zwift, and other sports stuff just to keep the motivation up.
Good luck, listen to the doctor and get better soon!
Received an email from Training Peaks today:
As a current WKO4 user, we would like to inform you that as of July 31st, this software will no longer be supported by TrainingPeaks. You'll still be able to use the program locally on any computer that already has it installed, including access to your personal charts.
However, you will no longer be able to:
To help you transition to WKO5, the newest generation of precision training software, we are extending a 50% off coupon code up until June 17th.
Upgrading to WKO5 will help you achieve better results with individualized training zones, deeper insights into your training and the latest science-based training innovations.
It'll be about $85 for the upgrade. Don't really see any reason why I wouldn't, both at the price point and for not being able to continue to sync between TP and WKO.
Made the plunge and purchased wko5 at a discount. I'll do the installation and switch tomorrow night when I'm at home and can concentrate on it.
A little nervous about it. EEK. ;-)
Yes me too. The 50% discount for existing wko4 peeps was persuasive.
BTW, I hasn't realised that my custom charts and reports from wko4 just move over to wko5.
Also, the mFTP calculation in wko5 is a better estimate of FTP, and it doesn't require as much testing according to Tim Cusick.
Haven't used it yet as I am still layed up after major knee surgery, but very happy with my decision to purchase it.