Weight and body composition issues and plan, am I OK?
I am frustrated and need a few kind words of support!
I am really trying to break into the next level of fitness and competion, and am at the point where my weight is really becoming a deciding factor in my racing and as a performance limiter in running. I am 6'1", 192lbs, and 10% body fat on a tanita scale (Readings are 9-10% so I am erroring on the high side) Even if I drop another 3% or so in body fat for my peak event (which I think is doable), I will be at around 186 which is still over what I think I need to be to achieve my goals. Ideally I want to be around 175lbs. I do not have a large frame, and I am evenly proportioned, I am just carrying a lot of muscle all around my body, especially my upper body.
I come from an elite running/bike racing background in my 20's and was around 165-170lbs with a body fat % around 7-9% (I used to have it measured by calipers). From my late twenties to mid thirties I stopped running, did some recreational riding, and surfed every day. My weight steadily grew to 200ish by my mid thirties, mostly upper body mass.
I went into a tailspin for a few years going through a divorce and stopped doing the sports I love, and paid for it by gaining another 30lbs. So I was 36 and decided to get my fitness back after my doctor said my blood values were horrible. Two years later I am down to 192 and am exactly where I want to be with my bike fitness, but have hit a plateau with my run fitness. I am just carrying too much upper body and I can feel it.
Over the last 2 years some of the weight I lost was muscle, as I regularly tested my body fat %. I want to believe as I continue with my run volume, my body will continue (at a slower pace) adapt and I will slowly return to my target weight. I do not swim in the OS, partly the kool aid and partly because I need to drop mass. No weights ever. The one thing that has been questionable is the quality of my diet which I am focusing on this winter.
I reject the conception that we just get heavier (I know there are unavoidible small increaces, but I think I am outside that range) as we get older, there are too many examples of elite level athletes in thier late thirties. I guess I am just looking for any recommendations on how I can adapt more effectively without risking injury. I have been toying with the idea of a small increase in my run volume by doing short 1-2 mile runs at Z1 on Mondays and Fridays to help my body adapt without risking injury.
Thanks for reading this long diatribe,
Peter
Comments
I'd love to get BACK to the low 190 range in my weight, and lower my BF%, which is about 12-13% right about now. The way I did it in 2006, nutrition!
For me, it just took time and some pretty good nutrition focus to reach my mean MEAN %s of 2006. I'll be looking for that again next year. GRRR!!!
I hear you on your struggles with weight. I am doing a personal test of 1 right now. I have lived at 190 for the last 3-4 years (down from 205 back in the day), racing at about 185. That was on sick volume high training, etc. In the last 5 weeks of OS training I have dropped 10 lbs, down to 178 and I am KICKING MYSELF that I haven't done this sooner. Easy? Hell no...I loves me some food...but powerful. All my runs have improved (z4 pace from 6:10 to 5:50 simply by losing weight).
I am writing up what I am doing, but it will be a while. Let's see what other big doodes want to play and maybe we'll get a sub-set going...
P
I have read several articles on optimum weight for racing that go much like the one here.
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0048.htm
Based on these numbers at 5'6" I would need to drop all the way down to 122 lbs.
Patrick,
That's awesome, it sounds like you are right where I want to be!
I will be watching trying to get leaner this year as well. It is hard especially when you like to cook as much as I do.
My plan over the winter is to not stray too far from 180 and race next year at 170-175. I know its faster, healthier and just better long term. I too, was a bigger guy...225 and alot more muscle many years ago, but as I cross into 50+ territory next year, lean and flexible are what I'm striving for.A good carrot for me is 4w/kg by the time my A race rolls around next year.
Good luck.
I was there too, last year 12/2/08 195 lbs, I'm 6'2 I started using the fit day program, logging my calories and figuring out where in the hell my calories came from. I think this is a great time of year to lose the weight. Even though you are going crazy hard for short periods of time and there is huge emphasis on quality of work you can still cut some serious calories. I'm now 172 maybe a few less on race day. I have to watch what I eat, it sometimes sucks, it is hard work, and requires some self control.
I was once built similarly to you, but with a bit more body fat. In August, after years of trying to get the proper endurance athlete's body, I switched to the Paleo Diet for Athletes and the results have been awesome...(I can't believe I actually just typed awesome!)...anyway, I have one waste meal a week to stay sane, and I have more energy, I recover better, and I'm not constantly hungry like I was in the past. I find it a very clean and easy was to eat.
I dropped around 14 pounds without trying and now that I'm focusing on cutting body fat I expect that little tweaks in the diet will lead to a steady drop in fat. I would expect that the Paleo could work for you as well. Without lifting, you should transform into a lean muscular machine! I don't think cavemen were bulky.
I am part of this subset for sure. Also working on it at the moment. Last few years have gone up into the low 190's this time of year. Makes it hard.
Never had any luck losing weight by exercising more, even running every day. Eating less and or better is the only way to do it.
That's great Dan! I do a calorie balance but I think I either miss it too much on the deficit side and slowly grind to a halt with my workouts, or error high and there is no weight loss. I also think I cheat more than I let myself believe, hunger sucks!...Seems like diet is my weakness and I am at the point where I have to conquer it...No worries doing a long workout or spending 2 hours going through my bikes on the repair stand, but it is really hard to get motevated to plan a menu, shop, cook, and all that.
Hey Martin,
I tried the Paleo diet last year for about 4 months, actually the athlete's version which is a little less strict. I did loose about 8lbs but it was really hard to keep it up. Are you having sucess staying with it?
I know that BMI has its limitations but note that at 6' even and 184 this morning I was just barely not "overweight". To get to "Underweight" I would have to be 136.
Here is the LINK
Coach P,
What are you thoughts about the cortisol response to the high intensity work we are doing? Many fitness resources encourage at long low intensity session to train the body to switch to fat as the main source of energy rather than the glucose/cortisol response to high intensity. Does any of this make sense?
Weight lose was my original motivation for triathlon.
Thanks,
George
Another bigger dude checking in. 42yo, 6' and right now 189#. At LP in July I was the lightest I've been since high school at 185#. I'd love to get to 180# for next season.
@CoachP - I'd love to hear what you've been doing to get there.
@Martin - how closely to you folllow Paleo? I follow it loosely trying to keep complex carbs to just before and just after workouts. Haven't been weighing food or anyhting like that though.
Patrick,
Write it up! I want to know what you are doing because IF I can drop weight and still improve my fitness numbers...I want in.
I'm 6' at 196 lbs. after honeymoon, 3 family birthdays and Thanksgiving. BF is 13% range @ 43 y/o. My leanest was 7-8% @ 40 y/o prior to doing Tri's. I did lots of LSD bike riding with 14 weeks never letting my HR exceed 80%, ran 3-4x/week at same HR but shorter distances 3-4 miles but also had the burden of divorce and home distress during this same period. One would think that cortisol burden would have screwed the pooch but I was in good shape for 8 months then I slowly started to crave more and more carbs (simple ones like oatmeal raisin cookies).
I weigh the question of cortisol burden and insulin sensitivity with the intesity of the EN program a lot in my mind. I want to be faster and believe that the EN program will do that but also would like to be lean and struggle with it now as dietarily I have cravings I didn't SEEM to have during LSD days.
Thoughts.
LSD or hard intervals- doesn't matter- I always had cravings for sweets. Here's what I did.
1. Sweets- None in the house. Now I don't have kids and can't cook well enough to entertain at home, so this was easy.
2. Be accountable to someone else. I never believed this would work until I did it. DH needed (needs) to lose weight for health reasons. We found a diet/ lifestyle change that we thought would work and I agreed to do it with him (cause what woman doesn't think she needs to lose a few?) We just naturally started off talking about how we were dealing with the changes and cravings. It took about 2 weeks for most carb cravings to really go away. Pros- I have lost weight and no longer crave sweets nearly as much. I have more definition to my muscles. Con- the minimal carb start almost ruined my race training, I had to increase my carb intake, but I stuck with fruit only.
3. At work I keep sweet and salty nuts and cheese sticks on hand to grab anytime I am hungry. That way all the cookies and candy don't catch my eye. ALL SNACKS ARE PLANNED.
4. Every dinner starts with salad. Got this from my mom, doing it since I was a kid. Dressing is oil and vinegar with spices. No creamy stuff and no salad fixings other than nuts and croutons. Only exception is if lunch was salad, then I might have tomatoes and cheese or celery and natural peanut butter. But always veggies. Is it cold out? Then a clear broth vegetable soup.
5. No alcohol. Again this is easy for me- see #1. I also never developed any enjoyment for the taste or how it makes me feel. I drink water all day long and club soda with dinner. (that has been an acquired taste)
6. No processed foods, no foods made with flour, bread, rice, potatoes.
7. Breakfast- EVERYDAY. Usually it is an Isopure low carb or no carb protein shake since I rarely leave myself enough time for anything else.
8. No eating after dinner is over. Once I decide I am full, that is it. I remove my plate so that I can't pick while I sit and talk.
I was stunned to realize that I don't miss bread, bagels, rice. I am Italian, so I do miss pasta at times. But I swear that spaghetti squash really does work as well. Turns out it is the sauce and meatballs that I love and crave (homemade).
Vacation wasn't as big a blow to the weight loss as we thought it would be. We just naturally gravitated towards the healthy stuff and what fit. But when warm brownies were available between dives, we didn't refuse. It was a limited and calculated break. We are home and back on track.
We eat out regularly (3-4x/week). We always ask for accommodations to remove pasta and rice, add more veggies. I also often take half home to avoid overeating.
Just some ideas.
Thanks for the advice. I think for now I will try to limit my damage and enjoy the Holiday season then tie a bodyfat goal and performance goal (FTP and vDot) together for a trip to Maui in the fall. I should be able to get my wife to help as a watchdog for Maui.
Vince
Michelle has great points. I am writing this up, but oh, am writing up like 5 other things at the same time! Target is January release. Basically, I think trigeeks get right into the science (i.e. cortisol response) instead of focusing on big picture (i.e. why am I eating this giant bowl of ice cream at 10pm). There is what your body needs, what your brain tells you your body needs, what you think your body deserves, and ultimately, what you give your body....all are very different things that you are 110% in control of (Believe it or not). You just have to get into the driver seat.
P
Patrick,
I hear you big dog....becoming littler dog. I am rather meticulous about my diet when I get serious and am guilty of some pleasures that I shouldn't be but noticed a HUGE difference in cravings with LSD vs higher intensity work.
Now that the duration of our workouts is lower I am less carb craving than during IM training 2008 when I jumped into the EN haus 3 months prior to my first IM. It was the wrong time to push both pace and duration for me and caused a hormonal crash. I'm hopeful that the current OS plan will allow me to moderate eating and get the bf% down AND get big gains.
My current problem is that my quads and butt are getting too big for my pants with the OS work. Anyone else having this issue?
Vince
Also, Patrick, I have heard that for every 5lbs you lose you drop 10 secs a mile so your pace getting better seems to fit right into that theory.
And there is something wrong with eating ice cream at 10PM?
P
Not sure about all the science, but last year I gained some weight during OS which I am trying to limit now. Really pretty good about eating, but do love my scone or muffin in the am. Drink only decaf and very little liqour. Drink lots of water. I do know that last year during the in season and up to IMCDA I dropped quite a bit of weight and was really lean going into race. Probably 5-6% bodyfat on Tanita scale. Hoping that works again!!
That is funny. I know why my body comp sucks, its cause I eat too much. When I pay attention to what I am eating and avoid things like huge portions/fried everything/cookies etc I drop weight really fast. It is all about discipline for me. What does not make nearly as much as a difference as how much and how often. I do have certain "cravings" which are for pretty much everything all the time.
I don't want to cast doubt or make fun of a friend I really admire, but . . .
She is an elite age group athlete (not in the haus) who is coached by a reasonably high profile east coast coach who has a stable of 3rd tier pros and elite age groupers. He has diagnosed her as "having too much muscle" and has put her on a "muscle stripping diet" to consist of only fruits and vegetables for the next 2-weeks. No breads, cereals, grains, meat, cheese, etc, etc, etc. I stress that this is not a vegetarian diet (which I am fine with), but a diet that is supposed to be specifically low in protein so she will lose muscle mass.
The daffiness of this escapes me.
Have you seen Chrissy Wellington lately? She is skinny! Her knee joints are larger than her quad in some pictures.
Devany and others talk about organ proteins being lost and that being the cause of elderly death minus disease. I'm not sure I'd do the "muscle stripping diet" for long-term health reasons.
V
Another big dude checking in-
At IMWI09 I was 6'4" 214 for a BMI of 26- my best race weight yet. After dropping swimming, cutting weekly workout hours for the Nov OS and succumbing to Thanksgiving temptation I was up 5# and feeling bad. I looked back at what had worked in the past and supplemented it with some ideas from Matt Fitzgerald new Racing Weight book and am making some progress. The primary things that help me are:
1. Eliminated refined sugar, high fat and high starch starting last Saturday. I am certainly sugar addicted and will binge very badly when stressed or tired.
2. Logging every calorie when (or before) I eat using my Droid (with the free Calorie Counter App- find it's online counterpart at Fatsecret.com). Forcing myself to document it always results in better eating.
3. Setup some standard meals which makes it easier to count the calories- standard breakfast(Soy milk, Kashi Go Lean, apple), midmorning and midafternoon protein shake(18 oz lite soy milk with 20g EAS whey- I also use that for my postworkout shake), standard lunch(spinach salad, no dressing, mandarin oranges, some almonds, Oscar meyer chicken strips(1 serving)), optional snacks include WASA oat crackers+ Kraft nonfat cheese slices+ 1 apple.
The only problem I've had in getting started is the really lousy way you feel for the first 3-7 days of sugar withdrawal- irritable, achy muscles, fatigued, poor mental focus, hard to nail the OS workouts- but today's run workout was good. An extra soy +EAS shake before the workout probably replenished the glycogen stores well.
Definitely interested in sharing ideas since I'm still 14# away from being UnClyded.
John
I'm reading that book as I type, it seems to speak directly to the problem of becoming lean enough to maximize performance, hope I can take something away from it.
P
Patrick, I just finished up with my copy. You're welcome to borrow it, but I'll have to get it to you next weekend (out of town this week). Let me know if you want to.
Mike