Weekly Run Thread 11/29/10 (Let The Pumpkin Pie Reversal Begin)
Day 2/2. Did a shortened spin class for :30 and then :30 run. Rejiggering my diet back to Paleo-esque and kicking the caffeine again. Gained a few pounds the past 2 weeks. Next few days will be hard as body readjusts but will try and run 7/7 to get back in the groove. Then Pre-OS along with picking up Daniels where I left off.
Happy Monday.
John
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I've gained 6! And, I've been running!
promised myself 1 week of rest and pigging out, feel like i gained 5lbs. Finishing that week off with a run tonight and then beers & wings, and the diet/ training starts tomorrow... probalby pulling the trigger on IMAZ with a foundation slot later today!
@Beth: Desoto make the warmest fleece tights known to man (or woman).
Keep it in Chi-town! I don't want any of that in the East! Oh, and good job with 44!
@Beth - 44/44 = AWESOME! Just a word of caution . . . . now that you are doing intervals you *may* want to think about recovery (non running) days. There is no such thing as "recovery runs" and I listened to a Macca interview and he uses/plans "recovery as a workout." Maybe start spinning or swimming? Hate to see ya get injured. :-) Not trying to kill your run mojo. I'm just sayin'.
I ran 4 on the dreadmill this morning Z2/Z3. 3/3 for me. Was 29 degrees out and i am not ready to run in the cold. Spin and run tomorrow.
Quiet in here this week. 4/4 for me today.
Ramping for Pre-OS that starts next week then January OS. Did a spin class but with EN intervals instead using RPE as guide and got to the verge of puking. I have forgotten how to suffer. The ladies in the class looked at me like I was crazy. Then did a 3 mile run on dreadmill at Z3. Oh, I am not ready for this. But I have no choice.
Still trying to figure out hoe to fit the Daniels stuff into OS, but I will.
@John: what do you mean with fitting in the daniels stuff for OS? Are you doing that instead of the OS running schedule? Just wondering.
Dan
=:-O
Last week was my 5th consecutive week of running post calf issue. I didn't ride at all last week and threw in a hilly 8 miler which pushed my weekly mileage up to 26. I haven't run that much since July. Good news is legs are responding and seem to be getting used to running again.
On Monday, I ran in the dark w/ a headlamp. I felt good, but was not monitoring my garmin and it was the SLOWEST run yet. Can you say fatigue from my big mileage bump last week? Yup. Did a relatively fast rolling 5 miler today. Leg felt pretty good considering I had my first pain cave session last night.
Grateful to run,
Dave
I had a period of forced down time after surgery, and am just getting back on the horse. Two for two today (added bonus, since I'm travelling). Glad to be getting my rhythm back, and looking forward to the January OS!
@Michael - Welcome back and gonna be great to have you in January OS. You bring great mojo!
@Halligan - GREAT news! Good work. Keep it up.
@Steve - I know many of the ladies in the class and they know my endurance background. They know I am crazy. They just have never seen me shelled and about to fall off a spin bike before.
@Dan - Not sure yet. I will include extra run days for Pre-OS (for sure Friday) and that will be Daniels stuff, but haven't really looked seriously at the OS schedule yet. I like the Daniels stuff and may just focus my OS more run specific and less bike as the run is my weakness. Will make the call in a couple of weeks.
With that said . . . .does anyone have thoughts on this?
@John: I don't know what to tell you. I personally like going with the Daniels stuff too (for you I mean) if its your weakness. My question is how weak is it compared to your bike strength. After last season, I'm a FIRM believer and raising the left and filling the right philosophy of riding and the OS seems to be the time to do that. In that regard, it may be difficult to do Daniels at the same time, but as you said, you may not focus on the bike so much. Before I joined EN, I was doing a lot of 2X20 (3-4') work, maybe 2x's a week and that really had me ready for the rest of the OS when I joined. Maybe you can sneak those in to be the bike work and get 2 quality days of run work filled in with E pace days??? If I didn't do the 2x20 workouts, I switched it up with fight club and downward spiral workouts from the sufferfest.com and they kept me in line also.
@John, it is my experience, it only applies to me, bike training affects my run training negatively. I am experiencing difficulties this week just from applying pre OS bike training to Daniels Phase IV, already jacked up my run VO2max today.
I cannot continue using Daniels type workouts or intensity to EN OS. I think, that you will have to take the OS and very carefully apply it's run training as a base model, both scheduling and volume/intensity and than gradually turn down the bike and turn up the run. Wiki has great guidance how to do it. It is new. Read it, it will help greatly. It does make sense for you to do that. I will be considering the same.
I know I cannot combine the two, Daniels run+OS bike. I was wondering about several things in the OS and got my answers through trial and error:
1. Run cruise intervals, Daniels gives 1min/1mi, we use more recovery, 3 or 4min, not sure, now I know why, 5x1mi(1min) Daniels would leave me too beat up for tomorrow's bike FTP and bike FTP would kill my Daniels cruise interval session. This is just one example.
2. EN OS has no I-pace running, instead 5K pace is the ceiling, again much like what marathoners do when VO2max is on the table, benefit almost as good as I-pace, recovery cost much lower, for us to recover and hammer the bike on the next day.
Attempted today at 5x800m I-pace, crashed and burned, too tired from yesterday's AM 5600m swim+ bike FTP/run brick PM. Live and learn.
John - As you know, everyone has different needs and capabilties. With your size (height), there is a limit to what you can expect from run improvement for an IM. Sorry to say it, but shorter, leaner types like me have an inherent advantage on the run. Maybe you should seek to maximize your potential on the bike, and accept your run for what it can be and not expect more?
That said, I'm in the camp of run training as if for 5 and 10K during OS is the way to go in the first 8 weeks, then ramp towards HM training.
Jan 1, we have a 5K I always do, and I'll use that for my first VDOT. I'm betting it will be 20% slower than I usually am, but I've got a month more to prove myself wrong. I'm up to 5 miles/44 minutes outside, and a little faster inside now, running every other day. But NO speed work yet, not until my weight room work pays a bit more fruit. I hope I can throw down some intervals in the two weeks starting Dec 15.
45 and 46/46 in the books. I have a lunch today, so Q1 on the dreadmill after wok.
John - Taking Daniels into the OS has been rattling around in my head, too. I'm enjoying this getter faster on the run. I'm even wondering how awful it would be to bike minimally and mostly run and swim a lot.
As for ending my streak. Running every day still feels right. Ask me again after 50/50.
All - Thanks for the feedback
@Dave - The option of doing OS as written for the first couple of weeks and then throttling back the bike and throttling up the run is intriguing. I like that. One more thing to noodle. Thanks.
Also, it is funny you bring up the biking hurting your running. The coach I met with last month who did the video analysis of my run told me the same thing. The moment her tri-geek athletes get on the bike after only running for X amount of time the run suffers.
@Al - Thanks for the comments. Personally, I have never really focused on running for speed. I have run ultra's, etc. And I have called my self the King of Slow Twitch. But to really focus on getting faster is something I have really never tried to do. And I have many friends my size that are very fast runners. So why can't I be fast as well? Maybe not Macona or Truscott fast, but fast enough to shed a lot of time off my IM marathon? I believe my real limiters are mental as well as my body comp. And I am working on those as we speak.
And good job on the "comeback." It really is impressive.
@Beth - Ya, I hear ya. I will noodle this for a couple of weeks and then make a decision. And again, wasn't trying to ruin your run mojo. Congrats on the 46/46.
As for me . . . .5/5 today . . . was 39 degrees this morning . . . a good 10 degrees warmer than yesterday so I decided to layer and head outside to run. Ran 6 with no Garmin. Just did RPE and pushed pretty hard the whole way. Felt really good. So I can confirm the flu that sidelined me for the past couple of weeks did not hurt my fitness. However, I did have a couple of hacking moments along the way.
Layers for 39??? Man, that's one long sleeve shirt weather and wind pants!!!
Ahh, just bustin balls! I overdress on purpose, I hate being cold!
I'd be in LS shirt, gloves and shorts.... I hate cold hands.....
John, I'm going to start Daniels this weekend. Sounds like theres good stuff to think about. The key with any mod is going to be listening to your body. Do only as much as you can consistently recover from, and you'll be fine. You might be able to get away with doing more for a short period of time, followed by rest, but you won't get away with it indefinitely.
Congrats to you, Mike! Best medical self-investment I ever made, I'll tell you that!
Luckily, insurance covered most of it, but there was a lot out of pocket still.
@Mike - what Scott said!
6/6 for me. Did Pre-OS test run in my cave this morning to make sure everything works and I am ready to go next week. Did 3 x 3(3) @ 1.027, 1.021, 1.011 with overall :45 spin at .813. Not long intervals, but I completed. Holding the last 10 minutes at .8 IF was hard. Finished with 2 mile, 16:24 T run. Felt good.
Adjustments I need to make are to set the backlight on the Joule to "Always On" when in the cave and that I need a new trainer (adding to Christmas list). As well as put my trainer tire on. Everything else went well. Ready for Pre-OS to start.
Week 2, Phase IV, modified 5-15k, VO2max workout after 2 weeks. Decided to go conservative, only 4x800m(3min)@I-pace target 5:59.
Book did say in week 1, 4-5x, so I went 4x. It turned out 5:54, 5:54, 5:56, 5:58. Yep, it was little on the hard side, was not coming effortless. I did start pre OS bike and I can already tell that is interfering with my run. 3x FTP workout on the bike with Daniels ain't for me. Add 15000m of swimming and overcooking big time. So, bike is getting restraint to 2xFTP a week and 95%FTP for now, until OS.
Last week 40mi of running as usual so will be this week. Next Q comes Sunday AM, 12mi with 3x1.5mi(2min)T-pace. Last week had some good T-pace running.
Folks OS is coming fast. I am taking a family vacation to Carlsbad, CA 17-25 Dec, time to recharge the mind and get ready. I am really looking forward to switching focus to bike and hurting/crushing it like never before. If I achieve 5% increase in FTP, it should put me at close to 4.2W/kg at FTP. Coach P made a prediction, after 20 Weeks OS, VDOT 56. I would be happy with 54-55. That would be way too cool. I am an FOP swimmer, so we maybe onto something here.
Are we going to get our OS thread soon. What is the protocol of checking in there, do you post daily as the plan goes. Bunch of us are going to be active in that thread. Love having you all along.
I went 4 in a row today, with 30 minutes on the treadmill. This was the first morning i felt a little sore (did some extra credit core type work yesterday). But overall good.
@Bill - DeSotos tights look great! And only $72? I love my Sugoi subzeros, but, for that price, may need to add another pair into the rotation.
47/47 in at lunch. Um, and 46/46. I am never, ever doing another Daniels Q1 workout on the dreadmill if I can help it. I am just not that mentally tough. I had bourbon and mac and cheese for dinner to console my pain and boredom. Give me the o'dark thirty cold and a headlamp instead!
January OS is going to have some seriously good mojo from this thread. So, yeah, maybe it would be fun to start thinking about crushing the bike then like we've all been crushing the run now.
Hey folks, good to see the positive run mojo is flowing. I absolutely love running in brisk weather. Last night I did a quick 3.5 mile loop in the dark on a rolling route that is mostly a prvate road with rolling hills. Everything felt just right. It is kind of spooky, especially when something darts across the road and all I see is a shadow.
This afternoon, I did a 5 miler, negative splitting nicely. No plan, no pace, just running.
Great way to ease back from being injury getting ready for the OS.
@Starkman - I did my first pain cave session Tues. OUCH. 2x8' at a swagged FTP, remainder at .85. Damn it was hard.
Dave
I love how everyone is crushing it in this thread!! I've run everyday for 2 weeks now except for the monsoon day wednesday. I ran for 40' this morning and hammered for about 15 of it to see how I felt and I must say I'm looking forward to my 5k TT. Not that I will set the world on fire, but it should be as good if not better than my last one during the season. Can't wait to hammer with you all in January!
Dan
Everyone here motivates me to go out and do it, it will be one OS to remember.