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Power Clinic Details

Endurance Nation Power Clinic

Edit: Since this will be a group learning, motivation, and accountability opportunity, it might be helpful to see who has signed up for the clinic.

The IN LIST, updated Dec 30

Matt Ancona

Brian Ogle

Trent Prough

Stacey Finerman

Chris Smyth

Michael Johnson

Joe Priore

Robert Kalish

Al Truscott

Al Olsen

Leigh Boyle

John Dannenfeldt

Vince Hoffart

Mike Graffeo

Fraser Allen

Guillermo Davila

James Price

Michele Cellai

Why is the Power Clinic is not free/included in my membership?

Please read this thread in the forum



Description

Last year about 20 EN athletes worked closely with the coaches and each other to proof out a special power training protocol. Participants in this pilot program boosted their FTP by approximately 5% in only six weeks...and that was AFTER the OS was done. The Power Clinic is the end product of this pilot program.



Cost

Regularly $199, the Power Clinic will be only $99 for this first class of participants.



Participants Will Receive

  • A six week schedule of cycling workouts. You will simply replace the bikes in your current OS training plan with these workouts.
  • Access to a closed Group in the EN website. Participants will have the opportunity to interact with the Coaches and other participants in the program, asking questions, sharing knowledge and gaining support from each other.
  • Access to the original forum, on the old 3.0 site, which was used for the pilot program last year. This forum contains tons of learning and other resources for you.
  • Analysis of your final testing files by Rich and Patrick. You'll understand the results of your hard work and get personalized recommendations on next steps for you.

Interested? Here are the Steps:

  1. Take following test next week, preferably on Tuesday as that's the harder day on the schedule:
    • Warm up for 15 minutes; including 3 x 30" all out with 1.5' of easy spinning.
    • 5' Test (as hard you as can sustain, for five minutes). This will estimate your Power at VO2Max (pVO2Max). These are numbers you'll never have seen before, but do your best to crush yourself.
    • Spin 10' relatively easy, think 30-50% of FTP. Easy stuff, recover, stretch, hydrate, etc. Consider 1-2 30" pick ups again.
    • 20' Test. Just like an FTP interval, although you should be able to hold slightly higher numbers than you typically do during a full test.
    • Cool Down.
    • Download the file and determine your Normalized Power (Pnorm) for the 5' and 20' intervals above.
  2. Calculate your results:
    1. Multiply the 20' Pnorm by .95. This should be very, very close to your known FTP and will confirm you had a solid test. If this number is jacked, then you might need to ask the coaches in the Power/Pace forum what to do.
    2. Divide the 5' Pnorm by the 20' Pnorm to determine your Ratio. Example: 280/220 = 1.27
      • If your ratio is 1.2 or LOWER, you are a prime candidate for this clinic (Roof is Close to Ceiling), please register below.
      • If your ratio is between 1.2 and 1.22, you might be a candidate for the protocol. Register below if you would like to participate.
      • If your ratio is above 1.23, you are better served doing more FTP work and this protocol is not for you. You can play if you want, however, that's up to you.
  3. Register for the Power Clinic.
  4. Wait to hear from us for your next steps.

Thanks!

Rich and Patrick

 

 

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Comments

  • Sounds like a trashcan may need to be close to the trainer during this session.

    Vince
  • RnP,

    In reading about your upcoming Power Clinic, the urge to test and sign up is compelling. I have run some numbers of what I expect I can hit, and when I then do the follow up calculations, those numbers tell me I will be close to or in your prime candidate sweet spot.

    With that in mind I have some concerns. I am an old guy (59.3) and this is my first time through the OS (I am in the intermediate level). I have been hitting every bogy, have yet to miss any training, and am showing some good progress while not feeling particularly beat up or worn down.

    I want to maximize my gains, but do worry about potential burn out and/or injury (IM CDA 2010 is my A race).

     

    What are your thoughts on whether the Power Clinic (assuming I can hit the numbers I have estimated) could be a good move for me?
  • @Vince -- It's like the comcast commercials. Faster than Fast. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

    @Al -- So hard to say re: burnout fatigue. I say nothing ventured, nothing gained. Worst case scenario is you need to get really good at resting a bit after the OS, resisting the urge to just drill yourself straight into CDA. Some folks are not good at resting, so think about that as the real arbiter of whether or not to participate!

  • I'm out of town during the week next week.  Is it a problem to do the test next weekend?  Asking for two reasons

    1. didn't see a deadline
    2. NOVOS has an FTP test the following Tuesday, and I don't want to snork that up

    thanks!

     

    Mike

  •  1. When does the clinic actually begin? I am planing on Jan OS start. But will test to see if I am a candidate.

    2. Since return from vacation, I have resumed a "regular" EN schedule since my mojo is back. But I have already been doing: 5x (1' @120%/ 1'@60-65%) rest 2' @ 55-65% and repeat. Remainder of time 80%.  (I like 1' better than 30"). Did 1 day power clinic last year at Fastsplits and remember the test and numbers. Will my 1-2 weeks of personal roof raising make me ineligible? Or will it be all about the numbers? (read somewhere else I thought that if you were doing 30/30s then you weren't eligible for clinic.)

    Thanks.

  • Rich & Patrick,
    Last year during the Hack, I remember Jim looking and using average power vs. the pnorm. Is this a change from last year and what is the rationale behind using pnorm for this vs. ave power?
    Also, I've done the test three times (2x's during the hack) and one time after when I stupidly convinced myself to do a few weeks in September. In each test, I consistently fall well below my FTP when doing the 20' interval (usually by almost 20 watts). I know that Jim had me use my other FTP for the protocol, then at the end made me do a 2 x 20 (2') FTP test after the final test to get the data. So, if the pattern continues and I use the calculations you indicate above, will this throw off the numbers as my divisor will be lower resulting in a larger final number?
  • I tried the test this AM. Probably not the best timing. I'm coming off a week of vacation in 90-96% humidity (I live in dry CO!) in which I did a rejiggered set of run workouts based on the OS weeks 10&11. I suffered majorly in the heat and humdity even came home with some sort of whacky dermatitis as a result. (Also had a couple of Key Lime Coladas image) Then, due to flight schedule for the return trip, we didn't get home and in bed on Saturday night until 1:20 AM. Add to that poor nutriition over the last two days and you don't have the makings of solid testing. I tried it anyway though, and didn't have a good 20' interval. it was off of my typical output for 18-20' by 15W. That number put me right at 1.23. If I use my current FTP following Oct OS test #2 I'm at 1.2. Doesn't seem like my test was very good, but it doesn't seem out of the realm either.

    The questions then, are:

    1. Should I retest later this week or this weekend when I'm back in the groove? Was planning for this to be a bike focused week to balance out last week's run focus so a re-test could fit in to that plan.
    OR
    2. Just go with it and sign up?
    OR
    3. Forget it and keep going with OS plan?
  • Rich,

    I have been dealing with a little bronchitis symptoms for 2 weeks and decided to take Sunday off. While I was lamenting my lost workout I played with WKO+ a little and looked at a graph that details my "best evers" over the year. My 5 min best is 340 watts and my current FTP is likely to be 289 watts if my lungs cooporate. I will do the test as layed out but could we use the "bests" graph to determine the numbers if we are under the weather? (sorry I cannot remember the name of the graph as I'm at my office and I have WKO at home on my laptop).

    Vince
  • Posted By Michael Graffeo on 13 Dec 2009 07:04 AM

    I'm out of town during the week next week.  Is it a problem to do the test next weekend?  Asking for two reasons

    1. didn't see a deadline
    2. NOVOS has an FTP test the following Tuesday, and I don't want to snork that up

    thanks!

     

    Mike



    Mike, that's not a problem. We won't be starting until 1/11/10 at the earliest!

    P

  • Posted By Michele Cellai on 13 Dec 2009 07:12 AM

     1. When does the clinic actually begin? I am planing on Jan OS start. But will test to see if I am a candidate.

    2. Since return from vacation, I have resumed a "regular" EN schedule since my mojo is back. But I have already been doing: 5x (1' @120%/ 1'@60-65%) rest 2' @ 55-65% and repeat. Remainder of time 80%.  (I like 1' better than 30"). Did 1 day power clinic last year at Fastsplits and remember the test and numbers. Will my 1-2 weeks of personal roof raising make me ineligible? Or will it be all about the numbers? (read somewhere else I thought that if you were doing 30/30s then you weren't eligible for clinic.)

    Thanks.

     

    Target start is 1/11/10, and no, you aren't ineligible. But we do want you to test to see what the spread is. image

  • Posted By Olivia Syptak on 14 Dec 2009 08:16 AM

    I tried the test this AM. Probably not the best timing. I'm coming off a week of vacation in 90-96% humidity (I live in dry CO!) in which I did a rejiggered set of run workouts based on the OS weeks 10&11. I suffered majorly in the heat and humdity even came home with some sort of whacky dermatitis as a result. (Also had a couple of Key Lime Coladas ) Then, due to flight schedule for the return trip, we didn't get home and in bed on Saturday night until 1:20 AM. Add to that poor nutriition over the last two days and you don't have the makings of solid testing. I tried it anyway though, and didn't have a good 20' interval. it was off of my typical output for 18-20' by 15W. That number put me right at 1.23. If I use my current FTP following Oct OS test #2 I'm at 1.2. Doesn't seem like my test was very good, but it doesn't seem out of the realm either.



    The questions then, are:



    1. Should I retest later this week or this weekend when I'm back in the groove? Was planning for this to be a bike focused week to balance out last week's run focus so a re-test could fit in to that plan.

    OR

    2. Just go with it and sign up?

    OR

    3. Forget it and keep going with OS plan?

     

    It's really up to you. Sounds like you are right on the bubble (all things considered) so you could absolutely do it if you wanted...

    P

  • Thanks Coach P. Another couple of questions before I decide: Would you say there would be any risk to participating given that I'll be exiting OS in Feb to begin race prep for IMSG on 5/1? Would that timing matter?
  • I don't suppose you all have any plans to do a second clinic later in the year for folks who haven't even started the OS yet? I know I wouldn't be a candidate (or even want to be) for this go round since I start the OS in Jan and really have done a whole lotta nothin for quite some time! But it's quite possible I may end up in a position to need the clinic in another few months of OS stuff.
  • Posted By Olivia Syptak on 14 Dec 2009 10:25 AM

    Thanks Coach P. Another couple of questions before I decide: Would you say there would be any risk to participating given that I'll be exiting OS in Feb to begin race prep for IMSG on 5/1? Would that timing matter?






    You should be good, though you'll need to apply some attention to your long run in Feb to ensure you're ready to make the transition from OS to the IM plan.

  • Posted By Nemo Brauch on 14 Dec 2009 10:32 AM

    I don't suppose you all have any plans to do a second clinic later in the year for folks who haven't even started the OS yet? I know I wouldn't be a candidate (or even want to be) for this go round since I start the OS in Jan and really have done a whole lotta nothin for quite some time! But it's quite possible I may end up in a position to need the clinic in another few months of OS stuff.

     

    Nemo, sorry, we really haven't thought much past this first session.

  • Posted By Vince Hoffart on 14 Dec 2009 10:02 AM

    Rich,



    I have been dealing with a little bronchitis symptoms for 2 weeks and decided to take Sunday off. While I was lamenting my lost workout I played with WKO+ a little and looked at a graph that details my "best evers" over the year. My 5 min best is 340 watts and my current FTP is likely to be 289 watts if my lungs cooporate. I will do the test as layed out but could we use the "bests" graph to determine the numbers if we are under the weather? (sorry I cannot remember the name of the graph as I'm at my office and I have WKO at home on my laptop).



    Vince

     

    Vince -

    I'd rather you do the test. We don't start until 1/11, so that should give you time to heal up. Better starting with where you are now then what your best possible stuff was over the last 12 months...

    P

  • Will do Patrick.

    What can someone expect from this type of program when they always feel like their limiting factor is breathing/respiration and not leg strength (besides puking that is)?

    I have athletes that have very low HR's some feel like they have more heart than legs when they ride (ie: 2:35 marathoner can't hold wattage#'s) and others like myself that can hold wattage until my fitness goes south (ie: ability to process CO2, oxygen transport, etc.)

    Vince
  • egads...I'm afraid to even think of what my "house" looks like right now. Pretty sure it's a trailer these days...not much head room up top there...

  • @ Al Olsen - I think we senior citizens in the EN nation have the most to gain from this. You may have noticed the top end speed ("the roof") is more at risk for us OFs than the endurance stuff. I tested yesterday, got a ratio of 1.18 (235/196.7 on the CompuTrainer), and signed up. I'm a guy who never ran a step until I turned 50. I've annually done some focused speed work (running) since I took up triahtlon, as I always viewed that as my limiter. Now, the run is my strength. I now understand that what I was doing was raising my roof on the run, I'd like to see if I can get the same results for my bike. Having experienced what hard work is like running, I can't imagine it can be any worse on a bike trainer. I'm doing CDA, just as you are. Our IM specific training does not begin until April, and this program will be over by the end of February. I think, as long as we do nothing stupid like try to go harder than the FTP says we should, that this can only help an end of June race.

  • Thanks Al! 

    I appreciate the comments and insight from a brother EN senior citizen. 

    I will be testing tomorrow and if things go as anticipated, will be forking over some hard earned cash in the hopes raising this old roof a bit.

  • Are we supposed to do the run after tomorrow's puking test?  It is only an EP run, but not sure how I'll feel after that test.

  • I tested today....got 5' @ 290w and 20' @ 258w for a 1.12 ratio.....looks like I REALLY need this program.

    I signed up!

  • Posted By Keith Wick on 13 Dec 2009 08:44 AM

    Rich & Patrick,

    Last year during the Hack, I remember Jim looking and using average power vs. the pnorm. Is this a change from last year and what is the rationale behind using pnorm for this vs. ave power?

    Also, I've done the test three times (2x's during the hack) and one time after when I stupidly convinced myself to do a few weeks in September. In each test, I consistently fall well below my FTP when doing the 20' interval (usually by almost 20 watts). I know that Jim had me use my other FTP for the protocol, then at the end made me do a 2 x 20 (2') FTP test after the final test to get the data. So, if the pattern continues and I use the calculations you indicate above, will this throw off the numbers as my divisor will be lower resulting in a larger final number?

     

    Pavg and Pnorm on trainer are negligible; we speak Pnorm for 2x20 so keeping it consistent. Do the test, xtend middle rest cycle until you are 100% recovered or 12', whichever comes first!

  • WOW!!  Just answered my own question.  Don't think I coould run right now if I tried.  That was definately different.  Not sure I paced the VO2 test very well though.  Went out feeling great and was holding 330 watts for the first minute then started to realize that there was no way to hold on to that and it plummitted to 309 and then picked it back up to 312 by the end.  Up and down at the least.  I also did not feel like normal during the 20' FTP test.  I was holding on for dear life at numbers that were seaming easy the last couple of weeks during intervals.  I think the different testing of the VO2 took its toll on my body and I never have recovered yet 30 minutes after the test.

    Final numbers =  Pnorm of VO2 = 311,  Pnorm of 20' FTP = 262, with ratio of 1.19

    Another sucker added to the Clinic

    Crazy thing we will pay to get more pain.

  • Posted By Vince Hoffart on 14 Dec 2009 02:46 PM

    Will do Patrick.



    What can someone expect from this type of program when they always feel like their limiting factor is breathing/respiration and not leg strength (besides puking that is)?



    I have athletes that have very low HR's some feel like they have more heart than legs when they ride (ie: 2:35 marathoner can't hold wattage#'s) and others like myself that can hold wattage until my fitness goes south (ie: ability to process CO2, oxygen transport, etc.)



    Vince



    Vince -

    Hard to say. I live in a world where I say the muscles move the pedals, not my ability to breathe. It's a very simple world that allows me to ignore a lot of other extraneous factors that might / might not impact your ability to train / improve / etc. When I have a great athlete who can't produce a benchmark, there could be many factors (can a marathoner actually ride a bike well? is the athlete truly recovered?) In the case of this Power Clinic. you will be suffering big time. Your 5' power, regardless of breathing or whatever the Power # is, is highly likely to improve = you are stronger. That's good enough for me...

    Simple P

  • Folks -

    If you drill the test, there is no need to run the next day (or you can push it back to the PM if need be). We don't want this to impact your overall health....

    P
  • Posted By Trent Prough on 15 Dec 2009 05:40 AM

    WOW!!  Just answered my own question.  Don't think I coould run right now if I tried.  That was definately different.  Not sure I paced the VO2 test very well though.  Went out feeling great and was holding 330 watts for the first minute then started to realize that there was no way to hold on to that and it plummitted to 309 and then picked it back up to 312 by the end.  Up and down at the least.  I also did not feel like normal during the 20' FTP test.  I was holding on for dear life at numbers that were seaming easy the last couple of weeks during intervals.  I think the different testing of the VO2 took its toll on my body and I never have recovered yet 30 minutes after the test.

    Final numbers =  Pnorm of VO2 = 311,  Pnorm of 20' FTP = 262, with ratio of 1.19

    Another sucker added to the Clinic

    Crazy thing we will pay to get more pain.

     

    And we pay serious money to abuse ourselves for 10-17 hrs in an IM every yr. "A sucker is born every minute".....BTW I'm in too!!





     

  • Just crushed myself as well and did not run right after as I could barely walk for about 5 minutes



    5 min = 310

    20 min = 267



    Ratio 1.161 = 6 weeks of suffering with the Power Hack group!



    I agree with Trent...whats wrong with us as I'm also glad to pay more to hurt more as long as it makes me faster.

  • Did the test this morning. Not sure what was worse - the 5 minutes or holding on for the the 20 minutes. Was hard to pace the 5 minutes, so took the approach to start out very hard and then add approx 5 watts every minute. Almost didn't make it.
    Have signed up

    5 minutes = 270w, 20 minutes = 227 watts. ratio = 1.19.
  • Did my test this AM and didn't even think about running afterwards.

    Probably need a coach to weigh in, I am 1.2299 (230/187), but have felt like my ceiling is hitting the roof , which was why I started 30/30's on my own.

    Feedback?

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