Well, this mornings test left me almost wishing I had gone with the 2x20's per plan instead. Friggin hard. 1' into the 5' I was wondering if I was making a mistake as I went out full throttle. Stayed on the gas till then end but 4' in it became a mental struggle to block out the strong urge to puke. The 20' was harder than any 2nd 20 of a 2x20 I've done to date despite holding similar watts (105% of my current FTP). Anyone running immediately after this is just superhuman. Heck, it took me 10' before I felt like I could climb the stairs up from the basement. On the bubble with 5' at 327, 20' @ 271 for a ratio of 1.207.
I was fired up and ready to do this test, I think to much so. I went out way to hard on the 5' test, was over 400 W during the 1st min when I looked. Struggled to hold on at the end. Wound up with an NP of 324. At the end of the test I had horrible burning in my chest, my tongue felt swollen and I could taste the iron in my lungs. I had to spit repeatedly and was waiting to see blood but never did. I did the 10' easy ride on the bike waiting for it to pass but it never did, it was not pleasant. I got off the bike and laid down for 15 min. ( I have never not completed a workout before) After this period of time I got back on the bike did a 5' wu and did the 20' FTP test. It was hard but it was more my legs than my lungs this time, the burning did not return.
My indoor FTP test at the beginning of December was 239 ( I think this was a little low I was pretty tired, I was doing all the Nov. OS bike workouts and restarted in Dec.)
My questions are: What the hell happened physiologically? I felt like dying, how close did I come? Can you push yourself to hard or was there something else in play ex. chest issues I do not know about?
My calculations put me at a 1.34, even if I use my outdoor FTP from last year which was 260 my calculations would be 1.246.
Am I not a canidate for this power clinic?
I will go through this pain every week if it means I will qualify for Kona at Wisconsin. I know your saying is " this is just a game" Well it's not for me. Let me know what to do.
I tested but need to continue to work on my ceiling. I am stoked about the improvement that I am seeing but a little disappoint that I will miss out on the Power Hack fun. (We are a sick bunch... are we not?)
5' @ 309 (1.4)
20' @ 248 (1.2)
Ratio 1.24
Enjoy the power hack gang. I am interested in the results and knowledge you gain. The knowledge alone is worth the money. --Good luck.
The test - VO2 = 314 FTP = 254 (after the 95% adjustment) Ratio = 1.23
However, I've made a 10% improvement in my FTP over the last 7 weeks (initial test was 231, now 254). So while my test indicates their is still room between my ceiling and my roof, I think I'm closing in on it?
I'm also thinking that the OS is the time to improve the roof, and I'll have more opportunity for threshold work during the spring.
This is also my first OS. I'd really like to do the power hack (my inclination is to sign up), but I also want to do what makes sense.
@Bob - I think #1 you need to be careful...that's some scary stuff!!!, but #2 I don't think you need the clinic. Sounds like you have some good gains to be made doing threshold work, and the plan is perfect for that. There will be plenty of other opportunities to crush yourself this season, including (perhaps) another power clinic, so don't sweat missing this one!
@ Mike -- Given your gains I would say no to the clinic. Let your fintess play out, see how you do and we can strategize from the end of your OS with a much better sense of your fitness and ability to handle work!
As much as I want to do this and suffer with you guys I think the smart thing for me is to stay the course in the Nov O/S. I'm 3 weeks in to being able to run again after months off from injury and fear that the effort associated with the Power Clinic may negatively impact my ability to build my running back to where it needs to be. If this is offered again later I am so in. Good luck gang!
reality check....not only am I not in...it looks like my powertap was WAY out of zero during my last FTP test. A little heart breaking really. My ratio is 1.28...stay the course.
Technically I qualify I know and I'd love to be a return guinea pig but I need to know a little bit about the program timing.
I'm going to be in Sarasota Florida for a medical conference, watch the last night shuttle launch(2/4/010) and run the Melbourne Beach HM on 2/7/010. I know I'll have access to hotel fitness bikes(or could hit a fitness center) and if I watch my RPE and heart rates during the 30/30s and 3 min intervals etc I think I could mimic the 3 workouts I won't be home for(on powermeter). Could I still do the program well?
There will be plenty of other opportunities to crush yourself this season, including (perhaps) another power clinic, so don't sweat missing this one!
@CoachP.....is this true? I didn't sign up because I was a work in progress after taking so much time off in the fall....and I'm going out of town for 2 weeks for the holidays, so i knew I would miss a bunch of workouts. I really want to lift my FTP and am finally feeling back to normal. Should I possibly start this power hack, wait for the next one, or just do the stardard programs.
Maybe not the right thread for this post...but the power test is what prompted this. So I 'zeroed' my powertap last night before the ride. The FTP I got from the 20' section was 174 watts. At the end of August, at IM Lou, I rode a Pnorm of 163 watts with an FTP of 223. I took 4 weeks off/light training, a month of balanced, and then started the Nov out of season. I've been following the out of season pretty well. Could I really have lost 49 watts on my FTP in that time (22%)?
I understand that my ego has taken a blow here. Maybe I'm just fishing for excuses to make myself feel better....but are there any issue which could cause the powertap to read abnormally low?
If anyone has any ideas on this, please let me know. In the mean time, I find myself pissed, annoyed at myself for letting ym fitness slip that much and find myself VERY motivated for more bike workouts.
Maybe not the right thread for this post...but the power test is what prompted this. So I 'zeroed' my powertap last night before the ride. The FTP I got from the 20' section was 174 watts. At the end of August, at IM Lou, I rode a Pnorm of 163 watts with an FTP of 223. I took 4 weeks off/light training, a month of balanced, and then started the Nov out of season. I've been following the out of season pretty well. Could I really have lost 49 watts on my FTP in that time (22%)?
I understand that my ego has taken a blow here. Maybe I'm just fishing for excuses to make myself feel better....but are there any issue which could cause the powertap to read abnormally low?
If anyone has any ideas on this, please let me know. In the mean time, I find myself pissed, annoyed at myself for letting ym fitness slip that much and find myself VERY motivated for more bike workouts.
Coach P - doing my test next Tuesday 22nd, OK? Also, after the clinic, is the training plan 'tweaked' to reflect the training protocols within the clinic? Thanks, Dave
Try and guess what targets I was holding on for dear life trying to hit!
My initial FTP test had me at 203. I knew that was low going into this (inexperience with test, plus fitness gains over the last 7 weeks from WORK). I was expecting my test next week to bump me to 225-230 and this confirms that's the ballpark I should target next Tuesday.
So on to the Power Clinic question:
I'm assuming (since I don't think it's explicitly stated above, just implied) that the calculation is 5'NP / (20'NP*.95) - i.e. what's your ratio of max power to FTP. Or is it 5'NP/20'NP (and the .95*20'NP is just to make sure the number is in the ballpark?)
Either way, it sort of confirms my suspicions - that because I'm so new to this, there's still a lot of low hanging fruit to be had with the good old fashioned FTP work in the OS plan.
So while I'm sorely tempted to do the clinic as a learning experience (and might do it just for the hell of it anyway), I think perhaps I might be better off waiting for the next opportunity and continuing to rack up the "easy" FTP gains in the meantime.
I'm open to suggestions though, so fire away if you have any thoughts.
oh, i hate that test, especially since i do it to prove that i'm still living in a church steeple. anyway, i'm getting closer to a house with an actual attic. anyway, here's my power hack history: begin hack: 5' all out = 296, 20'= 209 ratio= 1.41 end hack: 5' all out= 308, 20' =222 ratio= 1.38 sept. test: 5' all out= 298, 20'= 221 ratio= 1.35
today: 5' all out= 318, 20'= 248 ratio= 1.28 looks like it's back to FT intervals for me. in some ways i'm disappointed, but man are my lungs happy.
Just got back from the cruise, and decided that tonight was a great time to knock out the test. In that sick sort of way, I enjoyed pushing myself to the point of seeing spots...
End Power Hack April09: 5'power = 247 20'power = 213 ratio= 1.16
Yesterday's test 5'power = 246 20'power = 179 ratio = 1.37
I have an attic! While I'm really happy about the 5'power, I'm sad about not being able to join the Power Hack fun in Jan. Really must work on FTP. As to the increase in ratio and 5' power, I'm going to attribute it to all the mountain biking I did this summer. I injured myself over Memorial Day and pulled the plug on IMC over July 4th. So the rest of the summer was riding mtb. I remember bringing my highest FTP in history to a climb called Elevator in July. I made it half way up and had to unclip because I was so anaerobic I couldn't stay up on the bike. By Sept, I could easily (as in I'm in the middle chain ring and chatting like a schoolgirl) ride the whole way up. Talk about specificity in training. Hmmm...
Did the test today due to work travel earlier this week. My results: 5' @ 291 Pnorm, 20' @ ;248 Pnorm, Ratio was 1.17.
When I multiplied the 20' Pnorm by .95, I got 235.6 which is close to my 233 FTP. Should I be using this modified Pnorm or the actual Pnorm to calulate the ratio? (If I use the modified Pnorm, my ratio becomes 1.23.)
Should I be using this modified Pnorm or the actual Pnorm to calulate the ratio? (If I use the modified Pnorm, my ratio becomes 1.23.)
Thanks for pointing this out. I went back and re-read the original post, which I think makes it clear that the ratio is to be the actual PNorm of the 5' to the 20' The 0.95 calculation was to be used to double check the FTP from this method against your last known FTP, to make sure the test was "in the ball park".
I went back to my numbers, and found I had used the 0.95 PNorm for the ratio. re-doing it, I am 1.12 I guess I'm closer to a trailer than a church.
I guess I followed the other Al down the wrong trail in my calculations as well (5"/(20'*.95)) instead of the 5"/20" numbers. That brings me down to a 1.146 which makes me even more needy.
Should I be using this modified Pnorm or the actual Pnorm to calulate the ratio? (If I use the modified Pnorm, my ratio becomes 1.23.)
Thanks for pointing this out. I went back and re-read the original post, which I think makes it clear that the ratio is to be the actual PNorm of the 5' to the 20' The 0.95 calculation was to be used to double check the FTP from this method against your last known FTP, to make sure the test was "in the ball park".
I went back to my numbers, and found I had used the 0.95 PNorm for the ratio. re-doing it, I am 1.12 I guess I'm closer to a trailer than a church.
Rob you did it right and Al, you have have it right. Straight up Pnorm values for the 5+20 for a the ratio, then, after that, get out your abacus and do 20' test x .95 to see how close you come to your "known" FTP.
Comments
Duration: 5:00
Work: 103 kJ
TSS: 17.4 (intensity factor 1.447)
Norm Power: n/a
VI: n/a
Pw:HR: 21.36%
Pa:HR: 15.82%
Distance: 2.095 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 274 546 342 watts
Heart Rate: 142 183 176 bpm
Cadence: 84 99 92 rpm
Speed: 22.7 31.7 25.1 mph
Pace 1:54 2:39 2:23 min/mi
Hub Torque: 78 114 89 lb-in
Crank Torque: 241 481 315 lb-in
If you extend the inteval to 5:00:01 or greater WKO will calculate NP and VI. I bet it is really close to 342 if you road smooth.
Thanks, Matt! You are a "Wicked Smart" member. It came to 341.
I was fired up and ready to do this test, I think to much so. I went out way to hard on the 5' test, was over 400 W during the 1st min when I looked. Struggled to hold on at the end. Wound up with an NP of 324. At the end of the test I had horrible burning in my chest, my tongue felt swollen and I could taste the iron in my lungs. I had to spit repeatedly and was waiting to see blood but never did. I did the 10' easy ride on the bike waiting for it to pass but it never did, it was not pleasant. I got off the bike and laid down for 15 min. ( I have never not completed a workout before) After this period of time I got back on the bike did a 5' wu and did the 20' FTP test. It was hard but it was more my legs than my lungs this time, the burning did not return.
My indoor FTP test at the beginning of December was 239 ( I think this was a little low I was pretty tired, I was doing all the Nov. OS bike workouts and restarted in Dec.)
My questions are: What the hell happened physiologically? I felt like dying, how close did I come? Can you push yourself to hard or was there something else in play ex. chest issues I do not know about?
My calculations put me at a 1.34, even if I use my outdoor FTP from last year which was 260 my calculations would be 1.246.
Am I not a canidate for this power clinic?
I will go through this pain every week if it means I will qualify for Kona at Wisconsin. I know your saying is " this is just a game" Well it's not for me. Let me know what to do.
I'm in the same boat, Bob. My numbers came to 1.37...(341 & 261).
My lungs are still screaming from the 5' test! I'm questioning whether I inflected enough pain on the 20' test...bother...
As an aside...e mail me when you're coming to Madison to ride the course. I'd be psyched to have someone with me more often (it's my training course).
Fighting off a cold, but here are the numberss...
5' = 283watts
20' = 227
Ratio = 1.24 (227 is adjusted for 95)
Not sure I want to subject myself to it, but......I AM IN!!
Looking forward to the pain!
I tested but need to continue to work on my ceiling. I am stoked about the improvement that I am seeing but a little disappoint that I will miss out on the Power Hack fun. (We are a sick bunch... are we not?)
5' @ 309 (1.4)
20' @ 248 (1.2)
Ratio 1.24
Enjoy the power hack gang. I am interested in the results and knowledge you gain. The knowledge alone is worth the money. --Good luck.
The test -
VO2 = 314
FTP = 254 (after the 95% adjustment)
Ratio = 1.23
However, I've made a 10% improvement in my FTP over the last 7 weeks (initial test was 231, now 254). So while my test indicates their is still room between my ceiling and my roof, I think I'm closing in on it?
I'm also thinking that the OS is the time to improve the roof, and I'll have more opportunity for threshold work during the spring.
This is also my first OS. I'd really like to do the power hack (my inclination is to sign up), but I also want to do what makes sense.
Any advise?
Mike.
@Michelle --
You can join in if you want...it would work for you.
P
@Aaron - Up to you if you want to play!
@Bob - I think #1 you need to be careful...that's some scary stuff!!!, but #2 I don't think you need the clinic. Sounds like you have some good gains to be made doing threshold work, and the plan is perfect for that. There will be plenty of other opportunities to crush yourself this season, including (perhaps) another power clinic, so don't sweat missing this one!
@ Mike -- Given your gains I would say no to the clinic. Let your fintess play out, see how you do and we can strategize from the end of your OS with a much better sense of your fitness and ability to handle work!
yikes!
5' = 236 watts
20' = 202
=1.16 ratio
20' adjusted by .95 = 239
= 1.206 ratio
I’m in!
I'm in.
Leigh- looks like you are in Kitima's old place- trying to build cathedral ceilings in a rancher (or trailer if you prefer). We can suffer together.
reality check....not only am I not in...it looks like my powertap was WAY out of zero during my last FTP test. A little heart breaking really. My ratio is 1.28...stay the course.
But I guess reality is a good thing.
Power test delayed by 1 day due to a busy day on call yesterday....
Probably need some advice....
End of Power hack 2009- 5' watts= 314W, 20' watts= 255W- ratio= 1.231- big attic..
Today 5' watts= 318W, 20' watts= 263W- ratio= 1.209- slightly smaller attic
Technically I qualify I know and I'd love to be a return guinea pig but I need to know a little bit about the program timing.
I'm going to be in Sarasota Florida for a medical conference, watch the last night shuttle launch(2/4/010) and run the Melbourne Beach HM on 2/7/010. I know I'll have access to hotel fitness bikes(or could hit a fitness center) and if I watch my RPE and heart rates during the 30/30s and 3 min intervals etc I think I could mimic the 3 workouts I won't be home for(on powermeter). Could I still do the program well?
If yes I'm in for round 2!
Dr D
@CoachP.....is this true? I didn't sign up because I was a work in progress after taking so much time off in the fall....and I'm going out of town for 2 weeks for the holidays, so i knew I would miss a bunch of workouts. I really want to lift my FTP and am finally feeling back to normal. Should I possibly start this power hack, wait for the next one, or just do the stardard programs.
thanks
Maybe not the right thread for this post...but the power test is what prompted this. So I 'zeroed' my powertap last night before the ride. The FTP I got from the 20' section was 174 watts. At the end of August, at IM Lou, I rode a Pnorm of 163 watts with an FTP of 223. I took 4 weeks off/light training, a month of balanced, and then started the Nov out of season. I've been following the out of season pretty well. Could I really have lost 49 watts on my FTP in that time (22%)?
I understand that my ego has taken a blow here.
Maybe I'm just fishing for excuses to make myself feel better....but are there any issue which could cause the powertap to read abnormally low?
If anyone has any ideas on this, please let me know. In the mean time, I find myself pissed, annoyed at myself for letting ym fitness slip that much and find myself VERY motivated for more bike workouts.
Thanks,
Philip
Indoor vs Outdoor Watts??????
Coach P - doing my test next Tuesday 22nd, OK? Also, after the clinic, is the training plan 'tweaked' to reflect the training protocols within the clinic? Thanks, Dave
5': NP 299
20': NP 239 (*.95=227)
begin hack: 5' all out = 296, 20'= 209 ratio= 1.41
end hack: 5' all out= 308, 20' =222 ratio= 1.38
sept. test: 5' all out= 298, 20'= 221 ratio= 1.35
today: 5' all out= 318, 20'= 248 ratio= 1.28
looks like it's back to FT intervals for me. in some ways i'm disappointed, but man are my lungs happy.
Just got back from the cruise, and decided that tonight was a great time to knock out the test. In that sick sort of way, I enjoyed pushing myself to the point of seeing spots...
P(5') = 301
P(20') = 256
R = 1.18
Looks like I'm in!
-Mike
Yikeys! I forgot how hard this test was...makes the 2 x 20 seem like an ice cream social.
My Power Hack history:
Boston power clinic Jan09: 5'power = 204 20'power=180 ratio= 1.13
Start Power Hack Feb09: 5'power = 241 20'power = 205 ratio= 1.17
End Power Hack April09: 5'power = 247 20'power = 213 ratio= 1.16
Yesterday's test 5'power = 246 20'power = 179 ratio = 1.37
I have an attic! While I'm really happy about the 5'power, I'm sad about not being able to join the Power Hack fun in Jan. Really must work on FTP. As to the increase in ratio and 5' power, I'm going to attribute it to all the mountain biking I did this summer. I injured myself over Memorial Day and pulled the plug on IMC over July 4th. So the rest of the summer was riding mtb. I remember bringing my highest FTP in history to a climb called Elevator in July. I made it half way up and had to unclip because I was so anaerobic I couldn't stay up on the bike.
By Sept, I could easily (as in I'm in the middle chain ring and chatting like a schoolgirl) ride the whole way up. Talk about specificity in training. Hmmm...
Did the test today due to work travel earlier this week. My results: 5' @ 291 Pnorm, 20' @ ;248 Pnorm, Ratio was 1.17.
When I multiplied the 20' Pnorm by .95, I got 235.6 which is close to my 233 FTP. Should I be using this modified Pnorm or the actual Pnorm to calulate the ratio? (If I use the modified Pnorm, my ratio becomes 1.23.)
Thanks for pointing this out. I went back and re-read the original post, which I think makes it clear that the ratio is to be the actual PNorm of the 5' to the 20' The 0.95 calculation was to be used to double check the FTP from this method against your last known FTP, to make sure the test was "in the ball park".
I went back to my numbers, and found I had used the 0.95 PNorm for the ratio. re-doing it, I am 1.12
I guess I'm closer to a trailer than a church.
Rob you did it right and Al, you have have it right. Straight up Pnorm values for the 5+20 for a the ratio, then, after that, get out your abacus and do 20' test x .95 to see how close you come to your "known" FTP.