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best clincher tires?

following on the tubular thread...What tires are you using/liking for racing?  I'm talking clincher here.  Is anyone using latex tubes?  Do you feel/think there is a difference?

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  • It depends....

     

    Take a look at the link below:

    http://www.biketechreview.com/tires...g_rev9.pdf

     

    The lower the rolling resistance the faster.  This will also show the advantage of using latex tubes.  Keep in mind that the fastest tires are not the most puncture resistant so you need to balance the risk/reward and decide what you are willing to run.

    Here are my personal favorities:

    • Vittoria Open  CX II 320TPI - These feel the best and perform great but can be a little more flat prone
    • Zipp Tangente - made by Vittoria and are similar to the Open CX but have a little more flat resistance and a different shape.  Rides good but not as great as the vittoria
    • Bonti Aero Wing TT 19mm - awesome tire if you are running a 19mm wide clincher such as a zipp 404, 808 or Hed3
    • The only good performing tire that i don't like is the michelin pro race 2s as the ride quality just doesn't feel as good to me as any of the above and I have flated on them much more.  I hear the pro race 3s are much better but the pro race 2 left a bad taste in my mouth so i haven't tried them.

     

    Other notes/considerations:

    • Yes, I can absolutely feel the difference between a training tire with brutyl tire vs. a race tire/latex tube
    • I now use Challenge Latex tubes as they have removable valve cores.  I like this much more than the michelin tubes with zipp style extenders
    • Zipp has new latex tubes with removable cores coming out soon.  They should be very nice but will of course have a premium price tag
    • latex tubes require you to inflate them daily and before your race
    • I typically run a 19-20 mm tire up front and a 23 in the rear
    • some tires are harder to get on and off than others (thin rim strips or veloplugs help greatly)
    • some tires work better with certain wheels than others
  • Luckily the guys over at biketechreview.com have done the work....

    Here is their latest testing

    http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf

    I do use Latex, I know there is a difference but I can't feel the difference.

    I went with Bontrager Aerowing 19 TT on the front as it pairs nicely with the Zipp 808 rim. In the back, I use Bontrage Race X Lite. I believe the tire nerds have recently been talking about the R4 by Bontrager that rolls well as well.

    Finding Latex tubes can be a challenge recently.

    Edited to add: Don't forget to research the correct range of PSI to run in your tires. I'm running 100 in the front and 105 in the back. I "helped" a guy in my AG at DoorCounty with his disc last year. He held the pipe and I pumped. I asked what PSI he wanted "130" - YOU GOT IT BOSS

    I'll guestamate that 95% of folks rolling out of T1 have way too much PSI 

     

     

     

  • I spent quite a long time a few years ago researching this very topic... It basically depends on your preference as to rolling resistance, puncture resistance and easy of getting off the rim.

    I eventually decided to go with the GP 4000 S
  • I also use the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX tires: http://www.trisports.com/vittoria-open-corsa-evo-cx-clincher-tire.html

    Great tire. I have used the Bontrager TT 19mm in the past when I had Hed H3's and I also used the Specialized Mondo S-Works Open Tubulars. The S-Works were real comfortable since they were so soft. Soft also means they don't last long.

    For tubes I use the light butyl tubes. Kind of get the best of both worlds with the strength of the butyl tube and lightness of the latex.
  • I also use latex tubes for racing, and yes, I claim to feel the difference. :-)

    I use the Michelin ProRace 3. I like how it feels, but I haven't compared it to a bunch of other tires like mancona has. It wears well. All of my flats in them have been due to either cuts in the sidewall (presumably from rocks given where/when they happened) or one time, I mysteriously got a small metal shard on the inside of one that took me about 4 flats before I found it...Still running that tire with no subsequent problems. :-)

  • I've been using the Bonti AeroWings front and back and have no idea whether they are 19, 23 or 19-23. Shows how little I know, but they work great on my HED 3 front and HED Jet Disk rear.

    @ Matt- how come they work fine on my rear but you only use it on the front? And more importantly, will I get an extra 1.37mph if I switch the rear tire?! image
  • Bontrager RXL pro and R4 Aero with latex tubes. I can't say I feel the difference from latex tubes, particularly because I train on different wheels with a much more substantial tire but I know latex is better because the data proves the crr benefits.
  • Posted By Paul Hough on 03 Jan 2011 04:34 PM

    I've been using the Bonti AeroWings front and back and have no idea whether they are 19, 23 or 19-23. Shows how little I know, but they work great on my HED 3 front and HED Jet Disk rear.



    @ Matt- how come they work fine on my rear but you only use it on the front? And more importantly, will I get an extra 1.37mph if I switch the rear tire?!



    The old TT aerowing is 19mm and the new R4 aero is 22mm.  The 19 will work just fine on your rear wheel.  I used to use 23s front and rear and just last year switch to 19 or 20 up front.  I haven't rode with a 19 in back yet but may try it this year if I'm still riding the current Zipp clinchers.  People claim that 23s ride better and are less prone to flats but I don't have an opinion yet.  I hoping to get my hands on some new carbon clinchers and if that is the case I will run either tangentes or R4s as those have wider rims.

     

  • @ Matt - I just checked and I have Bonti Aerowing 700x23 on two sets of wheels. I'll be racing Zipps at IM Regensburg so let me know how that 19/20 works up front. I assume the only advantage of the narrower cross-section is it's more aero??
  • Great help guys and gals thanks for all the input.

    So what does everyone like to train on?

    Thanks,

  • FYI - I'm running the R4 Aero on a Zipp 808 FC. Previously I had a 23mm RXL Aero on a Hed Jet C2 front.
  • I train on Vitoria Zaffiro Pro tires with basic butyl tubes. They are cheap($30), have good tread, and are very sturdy.

    http://www.amazon.com/Vittoria-Zaffiro-Pro-Tire-Clincher/dp/B001VVEK26/ref=pd_sim_dbs_sg_5

    If you dig blue you can get the Pro II version for $22 each.

    http://www.amazon.com/Vittoria-Zaffiro-Road-Folding-Clincher/dp/B001D3F58A/ref=pd_sim_sg_1
  • Holy cow! I just looked through that tire test chart; 3 watts/wheel difference between latex and butyl tubes. Wow!

    That may not mean much to those not using power, but I know how hard I work for 6 watts.
  • Yup - just for changing tubes. Switch from an "average" tire to something new the top and get yourself even more free speed.
  • +1 for the Conti GP 4000s suggested above, these are my new tire of choice for training and racing. Also have enjoyed Vittoria Rubino Pro III (the new 150tpi versions).
  • Posted By Bill Russell on 03 Jan 2011 09:44 PM

    Holy cow! I just looked through that tire test chart; 3 watts/wheel difference between latex and butyl tubes. Wow!



    That may not mean much to those not using power, but I know how hard I work for 6 watts.





     

    I completely agree, back in the first OS when I could gain 50 watts in 16 weeks, 6 watts was no big deal.  Three years latter and I killing myself just to gain 15 watts over a full year.

    That said, good tires cost maybe $20 more then training tires and latex tubes are about $15.  I get a new pair of race tires every year and only race on them, they then become training tires or spares the next year.

  • Matt,

    What's your feedback on the light butyl tubes vs latex?



    Do you guys powder your tubes and tires before install?

  • The challenge latex tubes come with some powder already on them so I don't add any if it is a new tube I'm using. When putting an older tube into a new tire I did use some powder.

    The reason I run latex tubes is because of decreased rolling resistance not weight. I don't believe the light butyl tubes perform as wheel as far as rolling resistance but I'm not sure.
  • I train on Campy Vento G3 wheels with the Conti. Force/Attack wheel set. Those tires really suck. My first ride on them I didn't like them. I can feel way more resistance riding rollers with them than with something like Rubinos or CX's. I'll ride on them and use them inside untill they wear out and I'll be really happy. The Campy wheels are pretty heavy and have no bead well, so changing tires sometimes takes an act of God and a few tire tools that I pray don't break. But, hey, they roll and they look kinda cool. It's really me against the SRM and watts is watts! I just LOVE when I put on the race wheels-don't wan't to lose that WOW factor!

  • Latex tubes are a little more tricky to install and easier to pinch so I suggest always using butyl for spares, even when racing. The thin butyl tubes aren't as good as latex - it's the rolling resistance benefits of latex, not the weight.
  • Butyl tubes also seem to hold their air better as well. Something to consider if you're not going to have a chance to check tire pressure the morning before the race.
  • You definitely need to top off latex tubes every time you ride.
  • Thanks, this has been an informative thread as I get ready to buy my clincher race tires (Conti Supersonic GP 20 for the Hed3 front, Vittoria 320TPI 23 for the Mavic Open Pro w/wheelcover back). Could you help me with a few tube questions?
    - For those of you like Matt who also use different tire sizes front/back, what do you do for spare tubes? Do you carry both sizes of tubes, or if only one size, which size?
    - For spares, do you carry latex or butyl?
    - What's the deal with supply on Michelin latex tubes? The Michelin latex 22/23 I can only find with a 60mm valve right now, and I think that's too long for the cutout in my wheelcover.
  • Carry butyle spares as they are more forgiving during the install process...you'll be under stress trying to do it fast.

    I just picked up the Vittoria Latex tubes from CC. Might be an option for you, they have removable core

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?sort=priority+asc,score+desc&PAGE=SEARCH_SOLR_RESULTS&OPTION=SOLR_SEARCH_PRODUCT&q=latex&x=15&y=12

    I

  • Kind of an old thread but I was just talking about someone about this issue when it got bumped.

    I am highly paranoid of flatting during a race. As such, last year I used "training quality" tires for all my races - Bontrager Race X Lite "Hardcase". Regular tubes, too.

    I think I'll do the same thing this year for my first 70.3, unless someone can convice me that there is a tire that is materially faster on my SRAM S80 rims and not any more prone to flatting. I have heard a lot of flatting stories about the Zipps and some others (although they won Kona, so you can't really argue with that).

    As for latex tubes, the increased risk of pinch flats worries me, as does the fact that they lose air faster -- some races force bike check-in the night before and I typically ride with my tires very high pressure (just my preference).

    I was thinking for some lower-stakes races this year of trying out some "fast" tires and latex tubes...maybe convince myself that my impression of the risk is overblown.
  • Latex Tubes are LESS prone to pinch flats.....I also bring a pumb to the race and pump up the morning of regardless.

    Anything that will pentrate a tire will punture the tube regardless of material, so punctures butyle and latex are no different in that department.

     

  • I use vitorria open corsa cx 320tpi for races with a latex tube - never had a problem - never had a flat in a race - they seem pretty flat resistant to me. I carry 2 butyl tubes as spares since you can't patch a latex tube very effectively. I know most folks would say why bother with a second tube, but I only do a couple of races a year, and I want to finish no matter what. It is possible to get two flats. Last year at vineman 70.3 my sister got two flats on her rear wheel - she started with new tires and tubes (ridden about 50 miles), so it wasn't poor maintenance.
  • Posted By Matt Aaronson on 05 Mar 2011 12:12 PM

    Kind of an old thread but I was just talking about someone about this issue when it got bumped.



    I am highly paranoid of flatting during a race. As such, last year I used "training quality" tires for all my races - Bontrager Race X Lite "Hardcase". Regular tubes, too.



    I think I'll do the same thing this year for my first 70.3, unless someone can convice me that there is a tire that is materially faster on my SRAM S80 rims and not any more prone to flatting. I have heard a lot of flatting stories about the Zipps and some others (although they won Kona, so you can't really argue with that).

    Well, here goes.  Tires are generally not "prone to flats" or not.  Sure some are tougher than others but what will generally cause a flat on one [staple, nail, tack, broken glass] will cause a flat on just about all of them.  If you live in the desert where there are tons of thorn and need armadillo's with those crazy sleeve things, well ok.  Sure do not need to race on those.  What causes the majority of your flats?  I personally hardly ever get them [knocking on wood] and when I do its is because I ride through something pretty nasty.  



    As for latex tubes, the increased risk of pinch flats worries me, as does the fact that they lose air faster -- some races force bike check-in the night before and I typically ride with my tires very high pressure (just my preference).

    greater risk of pinch flat?  If that you mean harder to install --meaning you have to pay more attention to the fact that the tube is not between the bead and the rim then ok.  Pay attention and it is not a problem.  There is no chance that a properly installed tube is going to crawl up under the bead of the tire causing a flat during a race.  There is no more chance of a latex tube doing so than a butyl one as it is zero either way.
    If your preference is to ride at high pressures and by that you mean more than 120 psi then your preference is to have a harsher ride than needed, poorer handling quality than needed and also to go slower on the same watts. [Look at the michelin or zipp recomended PSI chart or read the many articles on bike tech review] If that is your preference than why bother with faster rolling tires?  No matter what you ride you really need to check the pressure race morning regardless.  



    I was thinking for some lower-stakes races this year of trying out some "fast" tires and latex tubes...maybe convince myself that my impression of the risk is overblown.




     

  • Thanks for this thread - narrowing down my tire and tube purchase...
  • Yep, thanks for the thread. I'm definitely going to get all of this dialed in for IMWI. Every watt saved adds up! Easier than getting stronger :-)
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