The Volume Elephant in the Room
Ok, lots of new peeps on board, you're in the OS with it's light volume, it's the holidays so lots of time to pretend like you're working when you're actually surfing the net, probably reading stuff you shouldn't while you think about your training for next year. 
The results is that we've seen some posts, heard some whispers, gotten some emails along the lines of "I'm not sure if I'm doing the volume/type of training I need to be doing right now, given my race on Date X."
I'm going to answer this by relating my experience as coach and athlete, ask Patrick to add his, and hopefully some of our vets will chime in with their experiences. Here goes:
The Athletic and Coaching Career of Coach Dick
1999: first tri was an Oly in San Diego, when I found myself with about 4mo of no field time in the desert, deployed to various sand boxes in the Gulf, etc.
2000: I got out of the Corp in January, moved up to LA, joined the Inland Inferno tri club, and registered for IMFL in February. I was self-coached, working out of the TTB. Base 1-2, Build 1-2, the whole nine. I remember creating a spreadsheet during lunch one day where I did the whole volume progression thing and "scheduled" myself for about 18k swimming, 250 miles of cycling, and 60 miles of running...all sounded good on paper, right? I'd pay big money for that spreadsheet, come to think of it. At the same time I had on my swimmers hat = I wanted/needed high intensity. So I was doing regular 5-6hr long rides (easy to moderate), 3hr long runs (on Sunday, after the ride, natch), 2 x Tempo rides during the week (intervals on a dam, I shudder to think of those), tempo brick and track workouts. I remember sleeping under my desk at lunch, no joke. 10:55 at IMFL, as 52, 5:42(?) and 4:10, I think. That was after donating blood 18days before the race (stoopid), completely buggering my nutrition on the bike (had to stand down, puke to reset), etc. I know I did an RR bike in 5:17 before the race.
2001: IMCali, back when there was a full at Camp Pendleton. I hadn't quite learned yet. This race was in May, so only about 6mo after FL. 2 x tempo rides, 5-6hr rides, 3hr long runs but this time I did about 1.5hr at tempo pace...on Sunday, after my long Saturday ride. I started coaching people to Cali, continued through the summer, started Crucible Fitness around Sept '01, was laid off from my gig in November. I recall doing a CP30 test on a trainer around March, was 252w = about 230w FTP, maybe? 10:19 with a 5:1x bike and 3:5x run. Got a PT in the fall but no idea how to use it.
2002, training for IMWI: I start to get a little smarter. 1 x tempo ride per week, moved my long run to Thursday (dropped it down to 2-2.5hr, with about 30" walking every 10' or so). However, I was doing 2 x 5-6+hr rides on the weekend, nothing above z2. I did some track work for the run. But very high volume, easily 17-20hrs per week. Still didn't really know what we were doing with power back then, certainly not how to race with it, but I'd estimate my FTP at IMWI at about 280w. Went 10:02, qualified, 5:12 bike, 3:4x run, 4th AG.
2003: training for IMCDA and Kona. I recall doing a CP30 test (we thought in CP numbers back then, WKO, etc, hadn't come out, I think) in January and putting up 305w on the dam. Was training similar to IMWI when, around April or so, I remember buying into the Gordo, AeT stuff. I switched over to Tues/Thurs 3hr Steady ride, Saturday 5-6hr Steady ride. Long run on Sunday. No running speedwork, etc. I did some STOOPID high volume cycling in April and May of '03. Nothing to hop on the bike and bang out a 130-140 mile ride on Saturday, same on Sunday. Nothing, as in I could wrap my head around it. I remember doing RR bikes in about 4:56. I remember TT'ing 112 in late April and riding 4:42...almost killed me.
At IMCDA I crashed at 35mph at mile 26, decreasing radius right hander on the old course. Twas bad, even made it as a picture in Triathlete Mag 
. I stopped at the next aid station to have some EMT's scrub the wounds. Flatted at mile 45, had a cop slap on some neosporin while I changed the flat. Rode up to my buddy, caught him at mile 65. By about mile 90 I decided my day was done. Had a Kona slot already, had 27 athletes on the course, didn't need to prove I could run a marathon in 95 degree heat with a right side all cheesegradered. I finished the bike in ~5:16, after all of that. Ran 2 miles with my buddy and bailed. I figure my FTP was about 300w for this race.
2nd half of '03 was Kona prep. Still on the Steady volume horse. Went ludicrous big on the volume, especially on the bike after I rolled my ankle badly on a trail run with Sonny. Didn't run a step for 9-10wks before Kona. Instead...I went big. I put up 1400 miles in a 16 day period. One weekend in September my partner and I rode 222 miles from Pasadena to San Luis Obispo, rolling average of 20-21mph. Next day we TT'ed south to Santa Barbara to make a train, 110 miles in about 5hrs.
At Kona I took a bath to a :58, rode 5:08, shuffled to a 4:1x went 10:35. FTP was probably about 300w, maybe 310w but I doubt it.
2004: IMWI -- I'm starting get a little tired by now and had basically run out of training partners, especially for the interval stuff. By now I had seen what I had gotten out of the Steady focus, from an ROI perspective (not much at all) and went back to interval training. However, solo mojo was low, yo, so I poached roadie rides, etc. Thurs long run, Saturday and Sunday rides, a bit harder but still 5-6hrs x 2. Was mentally burnt to crisp by the race. 10:3x, as 5:12, bad run. Worked the bike too hard (was not yet humble, hadn't yet learned to race with power), got dehydrated and had cramping and stomach issues on the run. FTP was about...300w.
2005: IMCDA -- interval bike training, shorter, but much harder long rides, but still many, many 4.5-5hr rides. This was the spring of seeing how fast I could TT 100 miles. Put up a couple 4:2x, RR rides sub 5. Got in some good, hard running in the off-season, found some good running partners. Much hillier runs, shorter, hard long runs. 4:3x at WF, 1st AG, 8th OA AG bike split, I think. Fookin' awesome day, everything worked perfectly. Lost a little mojo afterwards, but did a cool cycling camp in UT (~350+ miles through the desert, awesome but very little running). 10:02 at CDA as 5:08, 3:5x run. I had about a 90% solution on racing with power by now. Started the run too hard, faded at the end. FTP was about...300w. Notice a pattern here?
In January '05, while in business class on a flight to Hong Kong, I wrote the first Crucible Fitness training plans, which I put up on TrainingPeaks. My Crucible Fitness forum got very busy as I provided support for those plans, could interact with my customers, etc. I learned a lot. If you bought a CF plan in '05 it looked like:
- Tues interval bike
- Wed sorta tempo run
- Thurs long run, but mostly z2, up to 2:30
- Sat 5-6+hr bike, with some interval work then all z2
- Sun 4-5+hr bike, same as Saturday.
I rewrote my plans in Jan'06. Brought the long run volume down, long bike volume down a tick, but didn't add more intensity to either. Intervals on the bike and more tempo running.
Fall of '06 (I think, coulda been '05, I don't recall) was the first OS plans. Early on I had realized that if you wanted to get faster you had to separate get faster training from get longer training, and the OS was the perfect time to do this. This was a tough sell back then!
After IMCDA '05 I basically lost interest in my own racing, certainly at the IM level. I raced CaliHalf and WF'06 (my wedding day :-) but that's it until WF'08 and CDA'08.
In late '06 PnI started to talk about collaborating on some camps: Ironcamp, Feb '07 in SoCal, June '07 in LP. He was still PTS, I was still CF. I rode a lap of the US, from Cali through the southwest to CF camp in Louisville (where I met Marianne, KrisF and David Wonn 
) to P's LP camp, then across to IMCDA where PnI roomed together. I had had a LOT of time on the bike to think...and EN was born over beerz at IMCDA'07, refined at IMLP...and 100% different, and better, now from what we thought it would be ...but that's another post 
.
I had racing with power sorta figured out by now, at least in terms of IF (sorta) and wattage gearing, but about a 95% solution. Rich talked my ear off about power, I talked to him about running, and he skooled me big time on the bike. Realized I had a lot to learn athletically, and that there was a ton of opportunity in the tri space to do something cool.
EN was EN by Oct '07, when we started our first "Oct OS Group." Marianne, David, Kris, Gina, Linda, and many, many others. Lots of folks who followed us over from CF and PTS. This was the first fo' sho' OS training plan: PnI collaborating on the plans, very low volume, etc. We basically winged it, and hit it out of the part on our first try. Response to the OS was overwhelming and the results even moreso...if anything how fit folks got out of the first OutSeason was the first mass indication that less volume, done right, was absolutely the way to go.
HIM and IM plans rewritten in about November '07, I think. IM week now looked like:
- Tues interval bike
- Wed tempo run
- Thurs long run, good bit of half marathon pace running, up to 2:15-30
- Sat 4-5+hr bike, with interval and z3 work
- Sun 4-5hr bike, same as Saturday
P followed this plan, doing way less volume and getting to Kona again, and having a much better race. Feedback from the early peeps was fast and furious, and we were rewriting plans almost monthly...it was insane. Our power stuff got REALLY dialed in about September '07, with email conversations between me, Chris Whyte, Rick Ashburn, Patrick, and Jason Digman. This was when we figured out the TSS tables, IF, VI guidance, dialed in the wattage gears, etc. A huge leap forward for collaboration and for the Team...we have never looked back.
I wrote the Four Keys blog post on the flight home from IMFL'07, fookin' tired of seeing people booger races for years and years.
I think we had about 120 people do our OS (Nemo joined in January!). PnI were training for CDA. The EN mojo was growing with more folks signing up for the OS and staying for the season...very cool vibe in the house with Sophomore members taking charge. We began to see the true power of the EN model here. The Power Webinar was broadcasted and recorded in Jan-Feb'08. We recorded the Four Keys video at our IMLou training camp in May '08, went live in June.
By now we had power 100% dialed, but racing with pace not yet. I went 10:25 at CDA (58/5:25/3:5x, faded last 8 miles), P went 10:02. We had 17 athletes at the race and had our first team dinner!
PnI locked ourselves down and, with the help of our CDA crew, figured out racing with pace between CDA and LP. We had 20 at LP. Halligan negative split the run. Chris Gleason went 10:3x, Steve Cramer 10:08 and qualified for Kona. Carrie Chavez and many, many others kicked ass. I did race marshal in the rain (sucked), scored a VIP bracelet, and used it to catch 7-8 EN athletes who finished before 10:50.
July '08 we rewrote the OS plans. Changed the 10k test to 5k. You new peeps have no idea how good you have it compared to the vets 
. Many other changes. Rewrote the IM and IM plans in September, went live from State Street at IMWI, mile 19, after almost 24 straight hours of work.
'08 IM plans:
- Better location of interval bike and run.
- Turned down the half marathon pace running volume.
- Took the volume of the long bikes down probably 30-45'
- We offered year-long season plan solutions (now no more)
'09 is in the books. You have the OS plans, HIM and IM plans are done, will hit the streets on Monday. See our podcast last week about the changes, but the big ones, for the topic of this thread, is that we took the cycling volume down a tick, took the long run intensity down a tick.
So, see:
- Sample size of 7.66 IM's. I think Patrick is at 14 now.
- 8-9yrs of long course training, coaching, racing, and writing. Full time, all the time. P is 7yrs, I think.
- Broad range of experience, experimentation, success, failure as an athlete. P will share his.
- I've moved from TTB doctrine, to Steady-stuff, to where we are at now, all based on my own experiences doing the time myself, with my athletes, and interacting with other athletes.
- Those lessons applied to my coaching and, probably most importantly, very early in my coaching career I opened myself up to current and potential customers in a forum. Trust me, you learn a LOT when you interact with your customers hours and hours a day, hence the frequent rewrites of my plans. I was getting a ton of feedback and learning a lot.
Basically, I haven't been afraid to try shit out, have boogered lots of things, have done lots of things right, but have always placed myself in the position of having to either explain, teach, analyze, what did or did not work. LOTS of self analysis. In short...
We have screwed up lots and lots of stuff so YOU don't have to!
I say we because even though I've done all the talking here, Patrick has some VERY good drinking the high volume koolaid experience ( I have shared above in red ).
After all of this, this is what I know about long course training. With God as my witness, just as you know many, many things about your job to your core, I know these below:
- Return on Investment (ROI), always, always, always. You instinctively think like this in every other aspect of your life. Triathlon training should be no different.
- If you want to go fast, you have to go fast. Or rather, if you are an age grouper with an age grouper life, the better get faster ROI activity is to...go faster. Ignore the pros. They are freaks and can throw volume at a problem. You are are not and can not. See the flat-lining of my bike FTP and bike splits. I got very fast very quickly on the bike because I applied my swimmers head to it. I fookin' murdered myself with intervals, for years. But I flatlined as soon as I applied Steady volume to my training at the expense of get-faster training. Unfortunately, looking back, I wasn't motivated enough in '04 to get back on the FTP horse like I should have and lifted it up to 320w+. The best running I had, in '05, was when I did a lot of hard, hilly tempo running with running partners and was able to keep my feet and ankles healthy for about 7 months.
- Long cycling miles are over rated. Team, hear me now: I've done back to back 140's. I've done 120 miles on Saturday before 12pm...and done it again on Sunday. I've ridden 175 to Mexico and 145 back to LA the next day. 222, followed by 110. 1400 miles in 16 days. The simple fact is that my return on race day in NO WAY justified the time I spent on the bike. Could I ride a bike a long time? Yes. Was I strong? Yes. Did I go faster...NO. My FTP did not improve, my bike splits did not improve. Period. On a practical note, I've done, coached, and seen people ramp up from the volume you're doing now to PR's at early season HIM and IM races many, many, many times.
- There is no reason to ever, ever, ever run longer than 2:30. If I find out that you do, I'm on a plane to punch you in the nose.
- You put in more work, and get a greater fitness return (fast + far) in an 3.5-4hr EN ride then 100% of your competition who are riding 4-6hr rides...either now or in May. It just. doesn't. work.
- If volume is your solution to a problem (I need to become more fit = do more), what happens when you run out of time? Seriously, think about it: where does the progression from 3 to 4 to 5 to 6 to 7...where does it end? 15hrs becomes 18hrs, becomes 22hrs...becomes what? Friggin' homeless? Divorced? Jobless? I can bet your ass you'll be pretty damn tired and burned out .
But what if we are wrong and your training partners are right. What if that coach who doesn't display their experiences, results, successes or failures, coaching via a virtual black box (but really out of book by a guy who read a book), is right?
What if what you really do need right now is 3-4hr trainer rides, 2-2.5hr long runs, off-season marathons, etc. Today is December 29. Look outside your window. Now project your head forward to about May, after FIVE MONTHS of that volume above...and you ain't even had your first race yet. How's your head? Now fast-forward to July, August, September...how's your head? How is your spouse's head?
Now look back inside the Haus and pay attention to your peers. Listen, hear about their successes. Learn what they have learned, the mistakes and successes they have made. And consider that the weight of all the crap I just wrote + the possible validation of that crap by a team of 400 long course athletes might merit a little more consideration than your training partners or Joe Coach of the Month. Just sayin' .
All in good fun, folks. I get worked up over stuff sometimes because PnI think pretty much 24/7 about how to make EN the bestest, fastest, most happiest place on Earth. But it really starts with you not being a Dick, and learning from our mistakes and successes.
Comments
Very. Cool. Post.
As I said in another thread--RnP are not running this so people can show up and an Ironman unprepared and fail. You know our team results over all. Saying this with a *smile--but talk to me when you are in the last 8 weeks of the training plan and let me know if you think you're not working hard enough. With three weeks to go, check in and let us know if you think you're "ready," and if you've done enough "volume."
I don't want to make this sound over-simplistic, but, people, just put your head down and do what RnP say. Those of us who have done the plan with complete trust know that it's a heck of a ride. I would argue that the biggest challenge here in EN is NOT having to do MORE. You will be superbly prepared for Ironman race day--physically and execution-wise. But I think the biggest challenge here is learning to identify, manage, and listen your own limitations--especially your individual needs for recovery. Do what RnP say, but with the caveat that you have to take responsibility to define and refine how to get to YOUR 100%. Some can absorb every single workout, some need extra time off now and then. EN will get you 100% prepared, but you have to manage the ins and out of how you get to YOUR personal 100%. One EN mountain, some variations on the paths.
Too funny. A few of my friends that toyed around with the EN concept last year, but could never quite buy in, have decided to go in another direction that starts with a Q and ends with a 2. They are doing 4hr workouts on the weekend in freakin December! They are already talking about +8 hr workouts on the weekends come race prep time.
Even if I felt like joining them, there is no way I could earn that many SAUs.
1. I like EN due to the mental aspect, coaches are trying not to have our brains fried before race day!! you have heard race day is 10% physical and 90% mental and it is true! so preserving the brains all year long by keeping the workouts spunky is a good thing!
2. riding fast, yep it is cold here! so after warming up, why not hammer out some sets to keep warm? I sure don't wanna be told I need to ride hours and hours out there, unless I really want to! and shoot I know how to ride slow!! so why do that over and over?? I have X time and I ride with a purpose!
3. yep no runs over 2:30... and nope I don't get in over 16 - 18 miles for an Ironman due to VDOT pacing... the recovery is difficult for longer time wise runs than that and you gotta be rearing to go the next day!! but on race day?? shoot you are gonna recover for a month or more afterwards...
so you race with everything you got and that includes the ability to go 26 miles.
4. ROI+ (return on Investment) yep I analyze my drive time, gas, time away from home, money spent, the whole shebang and the purpose of the workout. Why would I want to also then overanalyze my workout if I have already entrusted my $ to these coaches!! ?? nah, I don't worry about it, I just do it.
5. EN is not about egos... until mile 18 of the Ironman run. I know this and you do too.... so being patient is a virtue. I love this aspect in EN, about being smart. cuz I am smart and maybe not wicked fast, but I am bringing my game face, just like we are taught to do in EN. There is hope for the L'il Peeps (or back of packers, middle packers!) sure watch some of the fast people pass you by on the bike but we have been taught about Plan B!! which is? when the heat comes, the water runs out, whatcha gonna do?. What is in "Your box"? I love the aspect that we have all have a tool box thru experience, reading other race reports and our training plan and the concept of OODA (observe, orient, decide and act) is practiced through the EN way of race simulation rides and other training events.
6. yes, I remember attending the IMKY camp in summer of 07 and I believe I was dead last in the pack of riders scouting out the course. me and Heather stopped in at a gas station, bought us a Coke, I put on lipgloss about to depart on a hot summer day and we took the time to stand outside with our bikes and talk to Rich. "oh yeah, we wanna have fun AND get faster!".... I ended up wrecking my bike as I came to a redlight I just couldn't get unclipped at about mile 80 and just blip fell over with road rash all over me on my bday no less! Rich was so concerned that we were taking so long, that I see him on his motorcycle waiting up ahead on the road, he sorta looked like Mad Max!.... "you okay?" "Oh, sure I say!" and at that KY Ironman, he was there to check on all of his athletes. I can't quite tell you the MOJO you will feel to see the team out there and to have the coaches out there.
7. so he links up with Patrick and sets up EN and together they conspire to race IMCDA and I do that one too with Arkansas Mafia! and no kidding if both of them aren't at race end!! they had raced hard themselves, but then had the mental MOJO to be out there waiting hours I tell you til I finished!
so no matter the pace you are, winning your AG or completing... EN has your back!
8. Only 30% of competitors are women. EN has an active women's forum supported by the coaches. We have their ear if something comes up and quick responses have been the norm.
9. If you are new to Endurance Nation, ? Welcome. "Work is work" and you will work!! trust me. The workouts are cumulative so just cuz one day's might seem a bit easy, give it a few days or week and see how it goes!!
10. We have many people from all over .... but one great thing you are gonna appreciate is the friendship and support. People who understand your desire to train, and help you balance life with that. m
I have been doing Rich's training plans since CF in 2007 for Ironman FL, then into EN when it took shape. I think the key for me with EN has been the ROI. I have a wife 2 kids and a demanding job. I can not spend longer then 2:30 running...just not enough time in my day. Hell I am guilty of having to cut some workouts out just due to work, soccer games and other things that are more important in the big picture. (I justify this with something that I think Rich said a while ago "80% of a good plan is better then 100% of a bad plan). My times have droppped alot since 07. My HM has gone from 5:30s to a solid 5:15 (missed a huge chunk of 09 with deployments) and this year will go under 5 hours. At 39 I am running 5ks faster then when I ran cross country in high school. The off season work works and the focus on intervals works well or those of us who need to train on a limited time budget. Volume is overrated.
Awesome post!
I washed upon the shores of EN after searching for someone, ANYONE who had a grasp of how to train and race with power. What I found here was an incredible community of openly shared ideas and support...and the most clear/reasonable/logical/well-thought-out system of training and racing long course triathlon with power and pace.
After my first OS, I was the fastest/strongest I'd ever been in my 9 year triathlon career---without the 3 hour mind-numbing/soul-sucking trainer rides in Dec that I used to do. Three big cheers to RnP for figuring it all out!
This post comes at just the right time. I had a minor freak out in the middle of the night last night. Woke up and realized that IMSG is 4 months and a few days away. I think the cause of the freak out is that some of my "friends" outside of EN are telling me "you need to be swimming," and "you're really taking two days off," or "your long rides aren't even 2 hours?" Other people have gotten into my head and they caused an interruption in my despearately needed recovery sleep!! It takes courage sometimes to stay focused on this approach...and this post is just the refocusing "locker room" speech that I needed.
I have faith that this is going to be my best IM yet. I know that I will be prepared, but more importantly I know that I will arrive with a solid plan for race execution; something that none of the high priced 1:1 coaches have ever been able to coach me on. SERIOUSLY! After almost imploding at IMCDA in '08 (to think that you all were there and I hadn't found you yet makes me sad) the race execution approach using power and pace is why I'm here.
I think the rhino in the room for me is whether I'll be able to handle all the work (physical & mental) that happens [(T-12 weeks) through to race day]. eeeks.
Alright. I'll shut it...thanks again!
Memories.
I was a member of EN back at the beginning but had to wait until Jan to start my OS training. I remember lurking at the Oct OS peeps posts and my biggest concern back then was that the "October Group" would be going away right when the January folks would be starting our OS plan! HA HA HA! My how silly I was to think that Marianne, Linda, Gina, Kris, Chris, and others might abandon me in my time of need!
I am THE poster child for the biggest skeptic converted to believer when it comes to "no run over 2.5 hours while training for an IM" guidance. I simply can not thank R&P enough for drilling that message into my head (and both my husband and employer thank them too!)
I was just visiting with friends from DC and had this same old conversation about volume. GF has started talking to local coach who boasts about doing stuff "old school" and warns her that if she signs up with him she should expect to do 100 mile rides followed by 12 mile runs on Sat with another 12 mile run on Sun. GF is all giddy thinking about how awesome she's going to be after doing all that training and all I can do is think about how unhappy her hubby and new puppy are going to be. All I could say was "yeah, I can't go back to doing that kinda mindless hours of training anymore- it's just too much time and not enough benefit- besides, it's boring!"
In the end, everyone needs to decide for themselves if they believe in the EN methodology or not. Hopefully if you've gotten this far, become a member of the team, and have already started the EN OS- you have already decided to drink the koolaid.
I emailed my buddies and turned down the 4 hour ride tomorrow. I will do the track workout as I really need to get faster on the run too.
Vince
I'm very fortunate in that I never paid for another coaching service and/or training plan prior to finding Patrick in June 07. Oly was my big distance and I managed to do ok with the off the shelf, free internet plans. I didn't need to be converted from the LSD method.
I seeked out a coach and structured training plan so I could complete (not race
) my first 70.3. This was the first time I did running intervals and I loved them. Mentally, it broke up the running nicely. Prior to completing my first 70.3, I signed up for IMLP. 
I completed the 70.3 in just under six hours and was DYING at the end. The only thought I had was how could I get my entry fee back for IMLP because there WAS NO WAY I COULD DOU BLE THAT DISTANCE and live to tell about it.
Patrick talked me off the ledge and explained that I needed to approach it by doing some fun stuff throughout the fall and winter because I'd bet burned out if I thought about and trained for IMLP everyday throughout the fall and winter.
EN was born about the same time I did my 70.3. I transitioned over and started to learn lots and lots. I was like a sponge. I just sat back and read and read everything I could in the forums, blog posts, etc. I had no power meter, but I read everything I could about it.
I followed the IM plan, asked lots of questions, and just did the work. Patrick just finished training with pace and I calculated my vDot to be a 48 based on a 10k race I did. I ran a half mary in May with no garmin and no specific time in mind, just a goal to run as fast and as steadily as I could. My finishing time was exactly as the vDot table predicted. I got a garmin and started training with pace.
I did the LP training camp. Had a blast, and met some great folks who are still part of EN today.
My goal was to finish IMLP with a smile on my face. I did. I did not race it, I just wanted to do it. I did and was thrilled.
In 2008, I signed up for the OS, in Jan 09 I got a power meter, did the Tour of California camp in Feb (most fun I've ever had with my fitness by far!), and focused my 09 season on racing the 70.3 distance. I also introducde bike racing using the EN training philosophy.
I had a great year, set lots of PRs and never trained more than 11 hours per week. I think I averaged about 8 - 10 hours week. But every workout I did had a purpose. To get faster.
I've rambled a bit, but wanted to illustrate to the newer folks the value of the shorter/harder workouts.
Dave
The never injured thing is pretty key - I'm not killing myself physically OR mentally on long, boring workouts. Therefore, I'm able to keep training because my body isn't trashed. And I want to keep training because my mind isn't trashed and I've become convinced that consistency, not yo-yo-ing through cycles of fitness throughout the year, is what my body needs to stay injury free.
Plus, as a swimmer I find that I gravitate toward interval-like workouts, ones that have some variety, that I can mentally wrap my mind around. I just plain like the way these plans are written - it's the reason I picked an old RnP Oly training plan off of Training Peaks two years ago over all the other ones there - that one looked fun, it looked like what I was already instinctively doing in my self-made workouts anyway.
I find that triathlon is littered with a particular type of coach - usually male, but not always - who likes to set himself up as the be-all, end-all expert, lord his "knowledge" over his trainees, create a dynamic where the coached is always apologizing or making excuses to the coach for not meeting some standard, and prefers to "tsk-tsk-tsk" his way through his relationship with his athletes. You all know this guy. I hate this guy. I refuse to get into a coaching relationship where I have to apologize for living my life the way it needs to be lived and training my body the way it needs to be trained. I haven't found him in RnP - here, I feel like I'm in a partnership instead of a hierarchical relationship. I like that they don't blink when the realities of life get in the way of a training plan. I've never once cringed before posting something about missing workouts or feeling like crap. I like that they're more likely to puff up and issue smackdowns to us when we're training too much instead of not enough. It's refreshing and it's why I stick around.
I stagnated in race times for almost 3 years in the same events I did year after year. My race times varied by only a minute or two from year-to-year. I joined EN in Dec 2008 and had 20-30 minute PRs in 2009 in all the same events I do year after year, from local Oly tris and HIMs. Less train time = faster race times works = better quality of life outside triathlon. Trust us!
And was that David Wonn from Arkansas??? I knew him - is he on the list?
Donna
Could never afford a coach and tried every "training plan" published in a magazine. Only one ever came close to being useful. Otherwise, never saw any improvement and thought that slowing down was a factor of my age (back then I was in my 30's).
Joined EN in April or May 2008 once I decided to complete the iron distance. I figured if I was slow, then go long. That's what you do, LSD. RIGHT?
But I put all of my faith in RnP and the plan. I followed that IM Beginner plan to the letter. No missed workouts (done by HR). I had a great race day - goal was to finish without puking, smile on my face- I succeeded.
And on top of that- I am faster now than I was before and AFTER that race. Because now I train with power and pace.
I can sleep in during the OS and still get the work done before I go off to my job. ROI! ROI! ROI!
Thank you RnP, EN crew!
Hey Folks,
Hopefully my post didn't come across as our way or the highway, we knows everthing, etc. But rather, I wanted to lay out the path PnI have taken to get to where we are now, as athletes, your coaches, leaders, teachers, and mentors, and hopefully demonstrate that our path has been very evolutionary. Over the years, as coaches and athletes, we've experimented with lots and lots of stuff. Our data set, as coaches and athletes, is huge, likely the equal or greater of any two long course coaches the planet. Add the collective experience of the Team and the combination is second to none.
That "mass," of athlete/coach + athlete/member has a cummulative learning experience of hundreds, thousands of years of training. Many mistakes have been made, learning points noted, and applied to the training plans you have before you. While I can go on and on about the science/phys of why you don't need to be riding 6hrs or running 18 miles in January for a race in June, I'll just say don't do it, cuz I've done it, and didn't get shit for it. I wasted my time so you don't have to
.
New folks to EN,
The easiest way to gauge any product is to read reviews from the folks that have used it and you'll find out why EN Nation works. I've been a mileage junky since the late 80's. Holly crap, can you say fried. I never had a coach and couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting faster with more and more mileage and i decided to try a CF plan and that turned into the power seminar and it taught folks using power on the bike w/TTS chart and it took the guesswork out of the ride and I applied it racing(after walking many Im marathons) and pr'd my IM by an hour with less work. The power seminar alone is worth it's weight in gold not to mention the support of a huge team with alot experience. Do work son,
P.g.
Of course a big Thank You to Coach R for reviewing his personal history and evolution of racing and coaching philosophy. While I'm not (yet) an EN vet, I feel a deep kinship, because I took a very similar path. First tri in 1999, IM FL in 2000, IM Cali in 2001, was at IM CDA in 03 and didn't run the marathon in the 98 F heat (that's the number I remember and I'm sticking with it) I went deliberately into the volume reeds specifically with running while on a personal quest for Boston Qualification 03 and 04. Went through 7 IM training cycles with continually frustrating results on the run, until I finally saw the light in 2005 at IM CDA after reading and applying Rich's original article posted on CF website about IM race execution. Simultaneously was adopting the run strategies of shorter long runs, based on pace and time, not distance, and walking every mile or so. Did at least one good interval set each week in swim, bike and run. And I rarely rode more than 3-4 hours at a stretch, and almost never more than 90-100 miles. Very next race, qualified for Kona. Since then, I've been on a roll: 3 AG wins, a second, a third and an 8th (oops - that was coming back from foot surgery). And two more trips to Kona. (Ego trip: the best I've ever felt in triathlon was the two times I passed on a Kona slot because I already had one, and the nicest, most deserving guys ended up getting to go.)
This summer, after hearing part of the 4 Keys talk at CDA, I decided - well if these guys are pushing the very things that I think have given me success in both training and race execution, maybe I should link up. I've found that in addition to fitting in philosophically, I am getting a crash course on adding power to my kit bag, and a supportive group of comrades. Bonus!
One thing I didn't see in Rich's solioquy was reference to Big Bike or Big Tri weeks. I do a big week focus (actually 10-12 days) about 4-6 weeks before an IM, hitting (horrors!) 20-24 hours/week of swim/bike/run (at elevations of 5700-9500 feet). While I see support of these weeks in the Coaches' coments, I'm not sure if it's a fundamental part of the program, or just accepted extra-curricular for those so able and inclined.
Also, I bike commute to work (3-4 hours a week), "extra volume" at LSD efforts which is not on the EN program. I get the impression that as long as the volume doesn't (a) make me exhausted, (b) prevent me, via that exhaustion, from doing the critical interval days and weekend rides, or (c) lead to injury, that it is not hamrful.
Coach P's Pre-EN Notes
(See rich's post above, with my additions in red for the integrated story)
1999 -- Get tricked into doing a triathlon by my brother while on medical leave from the Peace Corps. I was in miserable shape. I had been trying to do some running, but was told not to run during the daylight hours, outside of a pasture area or in anything other than long pants and a long-sleeve shirt (Central Asia). Only time I tried otherwise meant I got picked up by the cops...so I got killed at the tri. Had a blast, was fat in a speedo...and took my tri dreams back to Central Asia.
2000 - Year passes, I move to working in Azerbaijan and my brother sends me a pic of him at inaugural IMUSA finishline telling me to step up. I agree and chafe my way to a first marathon in Valencia, Spain as preparation.
2001 -- Return to US with minimal fitness other than consistent running and some indoor rowing (yes, I used my UN hazard pay to buy an erg and have it shipped to AZ). I qualify for Boston in Philly, then sign up for IMFL and Eagleman while at Hahvahd (Rich insists I spell it that way). Do Boston, Eagleman (4:50s), sign up for IMUSA and then do IMFL (10:40s) with no idea what I am doing. I am hooked before doing one and on a slippery slope.
2002 -- I train hard right after my year of miles for IMFL, and proceed to strain my psoas muscle. Painful. Can't ride or run, so swim like 12k a week and try my rollers daily. Takes me like 6 weeks to realize I need to actually stop training to get better. Do that and recover almost instantly. Do Boston again (Same time) and add tons of winter miles and crazy brick workouts to go to IMUSA...and get crushed. Like 11:45...I thought I was all that and I wasn't.
2003 -- Convinced I can do better, I ramp up my training now that I am out of grad school, killing myself with century rides and masters swim at 4:45am....and earn my way to an 11:01 at IMUSA. Better, but not indicative of my potential. I went back to the drawing board and found a way to get in even more hours.
2004 -- I "get serious", rip a nice Half Mary in Feb and go to Austria to race. Have an off day and go 10:08 and am amazed at my performance. It's a fast course, but the day convinces me that I can be really fast (never mind that I was in like 1200th place over there). The hours go up and I just luv training.
Off to IMFL where I know I am the man...and find out that my experience and miles and ego earn me one crappy day. A horrible race where I try to ride into a ditch forces me to rethink what I am doing and what all these "smart" people are telling me.
2005 -- I really get serious, hire a famous coach who tells me to train every available hour so I can get better. Signed up for early IMAZ means crazy indoor trainer workouts. I am riding 4-7am, swimming 4k at lunch and running 1-1.5 at night...3-4x a week. Maura never sees me, I am drinking coke like it's oxygen and falling asleep at my desk. Sitting on about 25 hours of training a week and I manage another 10:08, although in the US. I had a PM, but my coach had no idea how to tell me to use it...so I winged it.
I try to up the miles (more is better, right?) and focus up en route to IMUSA and while faster, miss a Kona slot by less than 4 seconds. Got passed in the chute. That hurt...big time. Learn my personal limit is 30h a week while working full time and trying to be married. Also learn that all that training is work, not fun, and this is all just a game. Four seconds? WTF?
I begin to rethink my training and realize that how I am coaching others (and myself) isn't the best way. It's just the only way that I had ever heard of, and my rigorous case study (n=1) told me that a battle of attrition wasn't the only way.
2006 -- I get totally refocused, drop the silly run focus stuff and plan some early season mileage. Using powermeter to be steady and smart, I get stoopid fit and go 10:01 at Placid and qualify outright. Finally have power thing nailed and good race execution stuff coming into focus.
Personal coaching is now 100% full-time, and good, and I write my "Competitive Triathlon in 10 Hours A Week" book, as I realize that 99% of my clients have almost no time to train. We have baby Megan and I do several 15 minute trainer rides pre-Kona to suffer big time on the world stage...but love every second of it.
End of 2006 RnP start dating via Ultrafit and begin collaborating on camps and events...time to go to the top of this thread!
Count me in.
Good post Uncle Rich! Thanks for the reset.
Guess I am a vet now so I will pipe in.
All I gotsta say is when you transition into your HIM or IM Plan and you continue to do the workouts as written and you don't feel more torched (and more ready) than your old skewl LSD type way of doing things . . . . then go back to the old skewl. We are cool with dat. Have a great season. But I would take a guess that you didn't WORK the The Plan as written. I have been witness to this. I'm just sayin'.
Takes time for the paradigm shift to happen. Think of it like back in the day when everyone thought the world was flat. The new thinking took some folks awhile to understand/grasp. Less time with more (proven and quantifiable) results in da haus. No way to dispute it.
EN is a complete package. OS, Transition, IM or HIM Plan and the most important piece IMHO . . . race day execution.
This stuff WORKS . . . for those that WORK it. Period.
Nuff sed.
awesome post guys!
very cool to sit back and read the progression.
Started following crucible plans in '05 as a way to keep my training "honest" while stuck indoors over the New England winter- had a power meter and CDA race looming. Loved it and then stupidly blew myself up at the race only to come to the conclusion that more training=better result. Threw all of my free time into the next training cycle and blew up again at LP and realized I needed a different path because the hour option had a ceiling of about 20-22 hours. Signed up with EN on day one and was geared up for the Oct OS but had to delay till January with Nemo. Learned how to actually race and get fit and haven't looked back since! Can't believe this is already year 3. The time just flies.
Very cool post. going into my second year with EN. Althouhg I am not on the board as much this year Ican tell you that I love this stuff. The cool aid is flowing in these old veins. When you are happy with your training you can be happy with everything else as well. Thnaks for all your help guys.
Wow what a great post/thread you started here Rich. I'm a newbie so I don't have multiple seasons of experience like some folks but everything you say totally makes sense to me. This coming year will be my third season of triathlon. First year was a disaster. Trained for first race by myself and was hooked. Realized I knew nothing so got myself a coach. He did a great job but everything was heart rate based and in zones 1 and 2 with little bits in zone 3. Nothing above, but was supposed to race at a higher rate. It just didn't make sense to me. When the season was over I asked what do we do now because I knew there had to be something I could do to get faster but had no idea what it was.
Over the winter I found some EN podcasts and by the start of the next season I was starting to get the EN philosophy. I then started to hack the workouts my coach was giving me to base the runs more on pace and on the bike I was doing more hard intervals mainly based off speed, which I knew was a crap method, but had no PM and it was the best alternative. I decided by July I was going to join EN if the chance arose. I realized that I needed help not only in training to get me faster but also in execution. First race of last year my coach told me to have a few beers the night before. Now he knows me and should have been more specific because a few beers for me is 5-6 and I only drink beers with 7-10% ABV. So that wasn't a good start and it didn't help that it was 98 degrees during the race. In April! The race didn't go so well. Doing it again this year so will be interested to see the difference in performance. No beers this year! Well maybe 1-2, I will be at the shore!
So I guess what I am saying is that I have totally bought into the philosophy. It makes total sense to me. Work hard and smart to get faster, and execute on race day. How do so many not see it that way? All of the volume I did at Z1-2 got me fitter and a little faster because I was not in the best of shape but it didn't get me much faster. Since I started the preseason I have dropped a minute off my 5K time. That cannot be a coincidence. It is great to be able to learn from others experiences and why wouldn't we listen to what two guys who have qualified for Kona have to say? Their results changed when they adjusted their training away from the conventional methods.
On the bike today during my recovery periods I was twittering with a friend of mine's coach. He had tweeted "Mileage training? More or less productive than intensity/duration training. The debate floor is now open! I love to hear your views." I tweeted intensity since I do not have time to devote hours upon hours to my endurance zones, whatever they are. Then he responds "You increase your ability to work hard by teaching your body how to be efficient going slow. Ask ur Boy Lance." Now first of all I love Lance but he isn't my boy. Second of all how do you throw the greatest cyclist of all-time, arguably, out there as an example to fat me? He trains 40 hours a week if not more. So I basically told him that I only have 1, maybe 2 hours a day to train and in 8 weeks training with intensity I added 1 mph to my local TT that I do. Haven't heard back from him after that. I loved it though. Had me thinking of responses during my intervals. Got me so fired up. But back to the main point, there are clowns out there who say us laypeople should be doing similar things that Lance F'N Armstrong does. Are people insane? Sure if we didn't have jobs and families I am sure most of us would probably do tons of volume because why not, we love this shit. But for real people it is a joke. This guy probably prescribes 8 hour rides with a brick for his IM athletes on Saturdays. I would kill myself and my wife would divorce me. Not joking. But I do have to say he is a nice guy, don't want to knock him.
I guess what what I am saying is that the Haus you two have built is a great place. Cool people. Great track record. It makes total sense to me. Been having a great time. You guys have built a cool place to hang.
PS - Yeah I have had a couple beers
My biggest pet peeve with this debate is the fact that it's not really based on reality. Think about his statement..."increase ability to go hard by teaching your body how to be efficient by going slow." Can you give me an example of this? And not in a tri-mythology way, but in a real-world where else does this work way?
Can I improve my benchpress max of 300 lbs by lifting 100 lbs a lot, really slowly? No.
Can I improve my 5k time by running countless miles at z1 / jogging around? No.
Can I improve my ability to speak Spanish at a native level by speaking....it....really...slowly? No.
Does my reading comprehension at high speeds improve as a result of me reading....really....slowly? No.
I could go on, but my point is that doing each of those things makes me really good at...doing those things. Training long makes me good at training long, sure, there's no argument there. But it doesn't make me faster. It doesn't increase my body's ability to handle harder work. It drives me crazy that tri folks feel so special that they can ignore basic rules of physiology, etc.
Training with intensity, on the other hand, makes me faster, and it makes my endurance pace easier to maintain...but it doesn't work the other way. Same way that speaking Spanish with native speakers improves my comprehension and ability to read slowly, but not vice versa.
No beers for me, just too much caffeine!
P
I have always been amazed by how quickly my performance changes with training stimulus. A few weeks of solid interval work at the track dropped my 10K time significantly. Extending my weekly long run got me from 5 miles to a half marathon in two months. The mental strain of training for endless hours in poor weather, far from a goal race... and the challenge of fitting that training into a normal life is a very real hazard. Additionally, it doesn't seem necessary. Honestly, for some us, its about mental health. I want to be as successful as possible at Ironman while still remaining an excellent husband, father, and employee. Thats a very tall challenge. Unfortunately, our sport is seen by some as obcessive. My personal balance is necessary to demonstrate that its about achieving goals, having fun, and staying healthy (physically and mentally). That's why I'm in my 28th competitive season.
Caffeine? What is that stuff? Never had a cup of coffee in my life.
I think I may have forgotten to mention that he questioned why one would want to raise their threshold since they can only hold it for a short amount of time. Another ridiculous statement on the face of it. I believe in EN you say you ride at 75% for an IM. Funny I also heard the guy who won IMAZ on IMTalk, Rapp, say that is what the pros try to ride at. How could he ever get faster if you didn't raise your threshold? Still shaking my head about this.
One of my friends posted this in Facebook this morning:
"It's a beautiful day in Ironland today. Swim, bike, run and core/strength on tap for the next 5 hours!"
My first thought was "WTF!? You gotta be kidding." Old Skewl is alive and kicking.
Thanks RandP for giving me a life along with IM training. No need to start burning SAU's the first week of January.
WORK WORKS!