Great thread this !! Lots of good ideas. Last year I used a very splashy vertical bottle system which ended up puting high5 all over my front fork and brakes - yeck! For my new cervelo P2 I'm Thinking of either going for the same speedfil a2 setup Brian (thanks for the links) or the speedfil z4 mount (which puts my garmin 310 on top of the bottle). Any recommendations for a big (e.g 483d) aero box?
x2 Graham....I need a bigger bento box too. The little fuel belt one I have is not going to hold near enough nutrition for 112. Suggestions...?
We highly recommend you develop a nutrition plan that allows you to feed off the course vs one that relies on special stuff you carry = more stuff on your bike and opportunities for things to go wrong. For example, Perform and gels at the aid stations, done. The bento is then where you carry spare tube, tools, etc.
I'm not sure what WTC is doing on the course with regards to gels. My point is to work up a plan that has you feeding 100% off the course vs a plan that requires you to carry / source your own stuff.
I've always raced with 3 bottles with double concentrate, but for IMTX (only 2 months away!) I was planning to use the course nutrition only. My only concern is drinking the same thing for 11-13 hrs...can my stomach handle it? I started training with it a few weeks ago and so far so good. Upcoming long rides, race rehearsals and the EN TX Camp will reveal a lot.
@Bob .... I agree that GU taste better... But Powerbar Gels are better because of the much higher sodium content.... They also have a much thinner viscosity (except chocolate) making them easier to use in flask's and colder weather.
I've always raced with 3 bottles with double concentrate, but for IMTX (only 2 months away!) I was planning to use the course nutrition only. My only concern is drinking the same thing for 11-13 hrs...can my stomach handle it? I started training with it a few weeks ago and so far so good. Upcoming long rides, race rehearsals and the EN TX Camp will reveal a lot.
Brian, a couple of things...
You don't have to drink the same thing the whole time. I drink the Perform for the first half of the bike and I drink as much as I can stomach. Probably 7 bottles in 2.5 hours or so. Then I stop the Perform altogether. I then switch to gels and water for the second half of the bike (plus something solid like a PB&J sammich). On the run - gels, water, salt sticks, coke, chicken broth.
The IMTX camp won't reveal the true nature of the the course because it will be 15 degrees warmer (and more humid) come race day two months later. Nutritional requirements become very different when it's 90 vs 75.
@Bob .... I agree that GU taste better... But Powerbar Gels are better because of the much higher sodium content.... They also have a much thinner viscosity (except chocolate) making them easier to use in flask's and colder weather.
They are thinner. Makes sense. I don't pay much attention to the electrolyte content of gels as I use salt sticks.
According to the handy-dandy nutrition excel race day nutrition thingy, PB gels have 200mg sodium each, while GU has 50 each. Prior to learning this, I used GU exclusively (I love the chocolate ones). I have switched to PB due to the sodium, and I do prefer the "thinner" nature of the PB gels (easier to swallow for me). While I had planned to use only on-course nutrition, I don't want to have to take salt caps either (I don't believe that they are digested/absorbed as well as sodium in food or gels, and am afraid they may upset my gut....just my personal opinion and based on things I have heard/read elsewhere). I will use Perform liquid/coke from course, but think I will take my gels with me (at least as many as I can carry in Bento on bike and flask(s) for the run).
Anyone have a big relatively aero Bento that they like (I don't have a Cervelo or Trek with the built in cable housing screw on option)? I'm also trying to find a saddle bag that will work with my Adamo ISM saddle....most of the ones I have don't have long enough straps. I saw that Xlab makes a saddle cage specifically for the ISM saddles, but it's for a bottle holder. I guess I could use a bottle (cut-off?) to hold flat stuff, etc., or get their waterproof bottle thing.
I'm still a PB gel junkie. It's not a big deal to carry a gel flask on the bike. Special needs can also be used for a backup supply. Other than that, I feed off the course. Well, I also eat a Powerbar as soon as I get out of T1. There is just enough room for everything in my Dark Speed bento box.
The salted Caramel GU (which is delicious) has 125mg of sodium as opposed to 55mg in most others. It's hard to find your favorite flavors during a race though.
The salted Caramel GU (which is delicious) has 125mg of sodium as opposed to 55mg in most others. It's hard to find your favorite flavors during a race though.
Great point Robert.... While I embrace coach Rich feeding off the course.... I do so only with the sports drinks and fluids (except what I start with).... My bento bag fits the bars, blocks, and gels I need for the bike so I carry exactly what I want and need with no SN.... I started carrying my fuel for the run in a flask after trying to run IMLOU and wasting time looking for what I wanted at each aid station... I wanted to alternate caffeinated gel with non every 3rd aid station and I wasnt finding caffeine when I wanted it and NON when I wanted it....
For those that havent read my Race Reports... I used cliff bars cut into quarters 60 calorie bites and 2 cliff shot blocks again 60 calorie bites and I pre-wrap them in edible cake paper... NO wrappers and they stack up nicely in my bento box....
@Tim - awesome suggestion! I had never thought of using eatable paper wrapping, nor splitting the bars up into smaller pieces, I just end up gnoring on a whole cliff bar.
On my ride yesterday, the front end of my between-the-handlebars water bottle cage broke off, and the result was that it no longer held my water bottle in place. I tried, but it fell out twice in the span of 5 min. So now that I have to buy a new cage, I was looking into maybe buying a front end aero hydration system. I was using a regular 20 or 24 oz bottle, and if its empty I switch it out with one I carry behind the seat or the one on the down tube.
After reading through most of the thread, it seems like a lot of people use the Speedfill A2. Does this require a special cage, or a regular cage will do? I was using a Profile Design Stryke cage mounted on a Xlab Torpedo aluminum mount.
Whats the opinion of the Xlab torpedo hydration system?
Final question: I began using power and use a Gramin 310XT, and until now have always worn it on my wrist. In the past it was not a big deal, because I would ride on RPE and would look at the watch every once in a while to see how fast I was going or how many miles I did. Constantly having to turn my wrist to be able to see power is going to be a huge pain. Does anyone use the quick release kit for the 310XT and the bike mount? Whats the opinion?
I can't speak to the other systems you mention but I have a speedfill A2. It fits in a standard cage (its just a special top with a filling cap and straw that screws on a standard Specialized water bottle type bottom). It is relatively easy to fill on the go if you want to do that. Prior to that I had a Torhans system which I may go back to. I felt (subjectively) I was faster with the torhans system, though it is much messier to fill and tends to splash if you are using the filling cap. They may have updated the system in the two years since I bought mine.
I have just about all the between the bottle deals. Currently i have the xlab deal that can have the computer. This gets the computer nice and far forward. I just use the cage and computer holder and regular bottles.
Any ziptied bottle holder between the arms would work fine. And computer can be attached to aero extensions by many extant optons.
Regarding the bottle that one puts betwwen the arms. Why use a special one? Personally i am a big drinker. It takes more time to squirt bottles into whatever straw bottle. I save time and complexity by squirting into my mouth and sticking bottles off the course between my arms.
I too have experimented a lot, and landed on the xlab torpedo mounted pretty far back between my bars. The front of the bottle is basically directly under my chin when I am in the aero. I like this setup because it leaves room for my Edge 500 in front of the bottle, and the straw folds down when not in use. I use a barfly TT mount about an inch back from my shifters, so my computer is right in my line of sight at all times. I use my 910xt for swim and run and edge 500 for the bike, so I don't have to do anything in transition. I have the dual xlab cage behind my seat and a clean down tube. I know that da Haus frowns upon rear mount but I am a big dude with high sweat rate and I needs the hydration. I also want to have a margin of safety between aid stations.
Here's a picture from my race rehearsal last week. I took the downtube bottle cage off. My bike's with TBT right now or I'd take a cockpit picture.
Other stuff I have tried, and outcomes:
Profile design vertical bottle: top came off in my first 70.3 and splashed everywhere. I hated the mount/rack with the rubber bands. Goodbye and good riddance. Rigid straw is bad for aero and I was always worried about getting impaled.
Profile design aero HC: This is their torpedo style mount with the horizontal bottle. The mounting platform was too wide to fit between my stock 3T bars (which is just stupid, why would they do that?). I used an xlab torpedo mount platform to mount it. I liked that it was easy to clean but hated the rigid straw pointed straight at my throat. Along with aero penalty, I was always concerned that I would get a tracheotomy if I hit a big bump or crashed.
Speedfil A1 (giant 40oz thing mounted on downtube): I hated the tubing running everywhere. I was also using this when I was trying to run a concentrated nutrition plan (Perpetuem + water mixed with Endurolyte). That plan stunk, and now I just do Perform + GU which requires much less infrastructure. Too many straws and tubes everywhere. Very hard to clean.
I'm pretty happy with where I am now, confirmed in race rehearsal and hopefully validated on Saturday.
I just bought the xlab setup a couple of weeks ago but haven't been in a rush to mount it yet (bike still on trainer). But, I was torn between the speedfil and the xlab and ultimately I liked the setup and mount placement for bike computer on the xlab. I have a quick release for my garmin 910, which is basically the same as the 310. It works great, but would advise against wearing it on the swim portion of a race with a wetsuit. I almost lost mine when removing wetsuit coming into t1 last season. Now, I leave it mounted on the bike.
I purchased a BMC Timemachine TM01 Ultegra model, it comes with Profile Design areobars (Profile Ozero TT w/ T2+ extensions). I also purchased an Xlab Torpedo water bottle ( http://xlab-usa.com/torpedo-system.html) that mounts between the aerobars. I have a Garmin Edge 810 as well. I am having issues getting the Torpedo bottle mounted in such a way that I can also mount and see my Garmin Edge 810. The BMC stem area is rather complex and takes up room between the aero bar pads. If I mount the Torpedo bottle it will cover the Garmin Edge 810 and I cant see another way to mount it to make the 810 visible. Are there any suggestions of how to mount them together? Are there other aerobars I could get that would better allow me to mount both at the same time and use them both? Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.
@ Jonathan....I haven't seen the BMC that you're riding, but take a look at this thread if you haven't seen it and see if you see something helpful.....FWIW...I have my Garmin 800 mounted b/w aero bars wayyyyy out front, on a piece of carbon tubing wedged b/w my aero bars. My hands are actually touching the computer in aero position. I don't think you can get it out any farther, and it would be in front of your torpedo. Check out the thread and see if it helps...
Ive seen people mount their computer/head unit directly on the bottle, which presumably is staying put since it's got a straw? An ENer who went to both 70.3 WC and Kona last year, Teri Cashmore, just put the mount for her Garmin on the bottle with zip ties. Easy to see, out of the way.
Posted By <a href='http://members.endurancenation.us/ActivityFeed/tabid/61/userid/3941/Default.aspx' class='af-profile-link'>Jonathan Rothberg</a> on 04 Apr 2014 12:41 PM <span style="text-align: start; letter-spacing: normal; background: #191919;"></span><span style="color: #000000; text-align: start; letter-spacing: normal; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;">I purchased a BMC Timemachine TM01 Ultegra model, it comes with Profile Design areobars (<span style="text-align: left; letter-spacing: normal; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;">Profile Ozero TT w/ T2+ extensions</span><span style="text-align: left; letter-spacing: normal; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-size: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-position: initial; background-repeat: initial;"></span>. I also purchased an Xlab Torpedo water bottle ( http://xlab-usa.com/torpedo-system.html) that mounts between the aerobars. I have a Garmin Edge 810 as well. I am having issues getting the Torpedo bottle mounted in such a way that I can also mount and see my Garmin Edge 810. The BMC stem area is rather complex and takes up room between the aero bar pads. If I mount the Torpedo bottle it will cover the Garmin Edge 810 and I cant see another way to mount it to make the 810 visible. Are there any suggestions of how to mount them together? Are there other aerobars I could get that would better allow me to mount both at the same time and use them both? Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.</span> <p> </p>
@ Jonathan - if you have the computer mount for the XLab Torpedo you can mount it on the front end of the Torpedo base, but upside down, i.e. facing down. Then attach a BarFly mount to the computer mount and attach your Garmin to the BarFly. This configuration puts the Garmin out front ahead of and below your aerobars with plenty of room for your hands and good viewing of the Garmin. Let me know if you would like a pic of the setup.
Comments
For my new cervelo P2 I'm Thinking of either going for the same speedfil a2 setup Brian (thanks for the links) or the speedfil z4 mount (which puts my garmin 310 on top of the bottle). Any recommendations for a big (e.g 483d) aero box?
x2 Graham....I need a bigger bento box too. The little fuel belt one I have is not going to hold near enough nutrition for 112. Suggestions...?
We highly recommend you develop a nutrition plan that allows you to feed off the course vs one that relies on special stuff you carry = more stuff on your bike and opportunities for things to go wrong. For example, Perform and gels at the aid stations, done. The bento is then where you carry spare tube, tools, etc.
Coach R....my understanding, though, is that WTC has gone to GU gels.....I thought Perform gels were better?
WTC did move to Gu gels starting with the 2013 race season (which began after Kona 2012). Gu gels were on course at IMAZ in 2012.
I prefer the Gu gels. They taste way better. Just curious why the Perform gels were better?
Brian, a couple of things...
You don't have to drink the same thing the whole time. I drink the Perform for the first half of the bike and I drink as much as I can stomach. Probably 7 bottles in 2.5 hours or so. Then I stop the Perform altogether. I then switch to gels and water for the second half of the bike (plus something solid like a PB&J sammich). On the run - gels, water, salt sticks, coke, chicken broth.
The IMTX camp won't reveal the true nature of the the course because it will be 15 degrees warmer (and more humid) come race day two months later. Nutritional requirements become very different when it's 90 vs 75.
They are thinner. Makes sense. I don't pay much attention to the electrolyte content of gels as I use salt sticks.
According to the handy-dandy nutrition excel race day nutrition thingy, PB gels have 200mg sodium each, while GU has 50 each. Prior to learning this, I used GU exclusively (I love the chocolate ones). I have switched to PB due to the sodium, and I do prefer the "thinner" nature of the PB gels (easier to swallow for me). While I had planned to use only on-course nutrition, I don't want to have to take salt caps either (I don't believe that they are digested/absorbed as well as sodium in food or gels, and am afraid they may upset my gut....just my personal opinion and based on things I have heard/read elsewhere). I will use Perform liquid/coke from course, but think I will take my gels with me (at least as many as I can carry in Bento on bike and flask(s) for the run).
Anyone have a big relatively aero Bento that they like (I don't have a Cervelo or Trek with the built in cable housing screw on option)? I'm also trying to find a saddle bag that will work with my Adamo ISM saddle....most of the ones I have don't have long enough straps. I saw that Xlab makes a saddle cage specifically for the ISM saddles, but it's for a bottle holder. I guess I could use a bottle (cut-off?) to hold flat stuff, etc., or get their waterproof bottle thing.
http://www.trisports.com/xlab-delta...ystem.html
WTC went to using GU? Damn, I just bought 2 big boxes of all PB gels. Oh well, I prefer those anyways.
+1million to salted caramel GU
On my ride yesterday, the front end of my between-the-handlebars water bottle cage broke off, and the result was that it no longer held my water bottle in place. I tried, but it fell out twice in the span of 5 min. So now that I have to buy a new cage, I was looking into maybe buying a front end aero hydration system. I was using a regular 20 or 24 oz bottle, and if its empty I switch it out with one I carry behind the seat or the one on the down tube.
After reading through most of the thread, it seems like a lot of people use the Speedfill A2. Does this require a special cage, or a regular cage will do? I was using a Profile Design Stryke cage mounted on a Xlab Torpedo aluminum mount.
Whats the opinion of the Xlab torpedo hydration system?
Final question: I began using power and use a Gramin 310XT, and until now have always worn it on my wrist. In the past it was not a big deal, because I would ride on RPE and would look at the watch every once in a while to see how fast I was going or how many miles I did. Constantly having to turn my wrist to be able to see power is going to be a huge pain. Does anyone use the quick release kit for the 310XT and the bike mount? Whats the opinion?
Thanks for the feedback
I can't speak to the other systems you mention but I have a speedfill A2. It fits in a standard cage (its just a special top with a filling cap and straw that screws on a standard Specialized water bottle type bottom). It is relatively easy to fill on the go if you want to do that. Prior to that I had a Torhans system which I may go back to. I felt (subjectively) I was faster with the torhans system, though it is much messier to fill and tends to splash if you are using the filling cap. They may have updated the system in the two years since I bought mine.
I really like the Speedfil Z4+ cage as it includes a computer mount and a little widget that holds the A2 straw down and out of the wind.
http://ep.yimg.com/ay/trisports/spe...l-a2-7.jpg
I have just about all the between the bottle deals. Currently i have the xlab deal that can have the computer. This gets the computer nice and far forward. I just use the cage and computer holder and regular bottles.
Any ziptied bottle holder between the arms would work fine. And computer can be attached to aero extensions by many extant optons.
Regarding the bottle that one puts betwwen the arms. Why use a special one? Personally i am a big drinker. It takes more time to squirt bottles into whatever straw bottle. I save time and complexity by squirting into my mouth and sticking bottles off the course between my arms.
I too have experimented a lot, and landed on the xlab torpedo mounted pretty far back between my bars. The front of the bottle is basically directly under my chin when I am in the aero. I like this setup because it leaves room for my Edge 500 in front of the bottle, and the straw folds down when not in use. I use a barfly TT mount about an inch back from my shifters, so my computer is right in my line of sight at all times. I use my 910xt for swim and run and edge 500 for the bike, so I don't have to do anything in transition. I have the dual xlab cage behind my seat and a clean down tube. I know that da Haus frowns upon rear mount but I am a big dude with high sweat rate and I needs the hydration. I also want to have a margin of safety between aid stations.
Here's a picture from my race rehearsal last week. I took the downtube bottle cage off. My bike's with TBT right now or I'd take a cockpit picture.
Other stuff I have tried, and outcomes:
Profile design vertical bottle: top came off in my first 70.3 and splashed everywhere. I hated the mount/rack with the rubber bands. Goodbye and good riddance. Rigid straw is bad for aero and I was always worried about getting impaled.
Profile design aero HC: This is their torpedo style mount with the horizontal bottle. The mounting platform was too wide to fit between my stock 3T bars (which is just stupid, why would they do that?). I used an xlab torpedo mount platform to mount it. I liked that it was easy to clean but hated the rigid straw pointed straight at my throat. Along with aero penalty, I was always concerned that I would get a tracheotomy if I hit a big bump or crashed.
Speedfil A1 (giant 40oz thing mounted on downtube): I hated the tubing running everywhere. I was also using this when I was trying to run a concentrated nutrition plan (Perpetuem + water mixed with Endurolyte). That plan stunk, and now I just do Perform + GU which requires much less infrastructure. Too many straws and tubes everywhere. Very hard to clean.
I'm pretty happy with where I am now, confirmed in race rehearsal and hopefully validated on Saturday.
@ Jonathan....I haven't seen the BMC that you're riding, but take a look at this thread if you haven't seen it and see if you see something helpful.....FWIW...I have my Garmin 800 mounted b/w aero bars wayyyyy out front, on a piece of carbon tubing wedged b/w my aero bars. My hands are actually touching the computer in aero position. I don't think you can get it out any farther, and it would be in front of your torpedo. Check out the thread and see if it helps...
http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/14995/Default.aspx
Ive seen people mount their computer/head unit directly on the bottle, which presumably is staying put since it's got a straw? An ENer who went to both 70.3 WC and Kona last year, Teri Cashmore, just put the mount for her Garmin on the bottle with zip ties. Easy to see, out of the way.
Speedfil Z4 cage is what you need.
@ Jonathan - if you have the computer mount for the XLab Torpedo you can mount it on the front end of the Torpedo base, but upside down, i.e. facing down. Then attach a BarFly mount to the computer mount and attach your Garmin to the BarFly. This configuration puts the Garmin out front ahead of and below your aerobars with plenty of room for your hands and good viewing of the Garmin. Let me know if you would like a pic of the setup.
~Bill
Bill,
Thank you for the information, I setup the Garmin as you described and it worked really well. Thanks again for the suggestion.
Jon