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2012 Kona Slots in Flux

WTC has been quietly changing the number of Kona slots to 2012 races as soon as the 2011 version is over.  If you are in the hunt for a slot, don't assume that 2012 will be the same as 2011.  Here are the number of Kona slots that 4 races had in 2011 and now have in 2012 :

St Croix 70.3:  28 to 30   +2

California 70.3:  28 to 0    -28

IM St George:   65 to 50    -15

IM Texas:           75 to 50    -25

That's a net decrease of 66 for those 4 races.   That, plus the decrease in pro slots to Kona probably covers the 2012 slots given to IM New Jersey and IM Mont Tremblant.   But it will be interesting to see if they leave IMCDA, IMLP, IMLOU and IMWI alone after those races take place.   I'm also wondering if the Buffalo Springs 70.3 will lose all of it's Kona slots after this weekend like the California 70.3?  Makes me wonder why they support St Croix which has had falling participation as the number of 70.3s increase. 

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Comments

  • Posted By Paul Hough on 24 Jun 2011 05:08 PM... Makes me wonder why they support St Croix which has had falling participation as the number of 70.3s increase. ...



    ? Global strategy; attract more South Americans? Doesn't help us old guys, though. Win or go home.

  • I think BSLT is losing their Kona slots after this year. I thought I read that over on ST.
  • Wow, nothing can be taken for granted! TX sure got impacted. This also has a impact on my view of St. George. That is on the to do list.

  • @Matt, shocked about Texas too. Wonder if I can get my money back! My AG will probably drop from 5 to 3 slots.
  • @Tom, I think we all know the WTA process it is easy money flow in and HARD money follow out.
    I think your assessments of what will happen to your targeted AG slots is likely to be real. This SUCKS in my opinion. We as smart AG competitors look for all edges to get to Kona when we select a race to try to qualify in. To change the “rules” after the fact is not right in my opinion.

    We live in interesting times!
  • @ Paul-Thank you for bring this dynamic to our attention! Otherwise ignorance would have been bliss.
  • Unless they plan on expanding the field at Kona (which they aren't), they need to make up slots for IMNYC and IMMT somehow. I'm sure they'll give 75 slots to IMNYC and probably 65 to IMMT for the first year. IMTX really got hosed though.
  • I don't have the numbers in front of me but the same is also happening at 70.3s. Most currently have 50 or even 75 slots for Vegas and for next year 35 and 50 seem to be the new numbers based on the early season 2012 races.
  • @ Bob - I think the speculation on BSLT may prove wrong. I was surfing around and learned that their last license renewal was for 2009 through 2012. So 2013 will be the deciding year for them. Then, if the last 2 years are any indicator, WTC will probably try to buy them out or threaten to drop them altogether.
  • Posted By Matt Ancona on 25 Jun 2011 02:38 AM

    I don't have the numbers in front of me but the same is also happening at 70.3s. Most currently have 50 or even 75 slots for Vegas and for next year 35 and 50 seem to be the new numbers based on the early season 2012 races.



    I saw that the Texas 70.3 went from 50 to 35.  M40-44 got 6 slots last year (the largest) and that will probably go down to 4.  While I'm in no hurry to qualify for the 70.3 WC (it may take a few years) they sure aren't making things easy.  It might have made it impossible. Pretty much win, place or show for the big AG's and come in first or second for the others. 

  • Posted By Matt Samojeden on 24 Jun 2011 08:04 PM

    Wow, nothing can be taken for granted! TX sure got impacted. This also has a impact on my view of St. George. That is on the to do list.



    why would you be shocked about TX?  They have often done that with a first time event so that it fills.  Same thing they did with NY, call it the US championship and bump the number.

    Lets face it, can't increase the number of races without decreasing the number of slots at each race.  As there are a bunch of new races, NY, MT, TX even ST George and Louisville are "new" not to mention the foreign ones.  The number of NA IM's have doubled in the last few years.  

  • IMCDA just dropped to 50 for 2012, fyi. Time for everyone to get fitter!!! In 2008 I got to Kona with a 10:04 at CDA...this year I would have needed a 9:48. Time to work!!!!
  • Amen. It seems like 50 is shaping up to be the standard number of slots for most races. I was thinking I would be competing for 1 of 2 slots in the M55-59 when I age up next year, but it's going to be more akin to Al's characterization of "Win or Go Home!". Since there are more races to choose from now, each with a smaller number of Kona Slots, race selection and luck (on who shows up) may have a greater role to play in the future if you are on the bubble.
  • Gonna have to start picking races based on what it's scheduled against/near, i.e. IMWI vs. 70.3 WC. (Not that IMWI is not a "weak" field already, but considering 65 spots it's become an even better option.)
  • @ Jennifer - I think you are missing the trend here. Read the FAQs for Wisconsin the day after this year's race to find out what their 2012 quota is. I predict 50!
  • @Paul - i agree IMWI will end up wiht 50 or LESS. The reality is the fast dudes are either racing Vegas that weekend and/or getting ready for Kona. Therefore the already weak pro field is going to get weaker and I bet the pro prize money goes down even more (it already dropped from last year). I think it will be WTC's opportunity to test out what happens if they have a IM with only 26 Kona slots (1 per AG) or even no kona slots... and I bet it still sells out.

    I'm not happy about it, but it is a business and if I was going to got the pro money and ag slots I would start with races in Sept and Oct that are not world championships.
  • The other thing to consider with this "thinning" of Kona slots is that the actual Kona field will be that much faster. Truly a championship.
  • @ Bill - with the exception of the handful of fat folks I see tow the line every year. I don't have anything against the lottery, but some of the folks who get in that way must have barely validated their slot with a half...and then packed the weight back on before Kona. It's kind of embarrassing when NBC is talking about all the fit athletes and you see some truly hefty dudes on the starting line. I've never heard them explain to the viewing audience that althoug most earned their ticket to Kona, but that others got in through the lottery, or were famous and likely to increase TV revenue, or bought the slot on e-bay cause they were rich, or were friends of WTC, or so on.
  • And so it goes. Lake Placid falls from 65 slots in 2011 to 50 in 2012. The streak continues and it is not likely that Wisconsin will be spared.
  • What they should do is take away any Kona slots from the remaining 70.3's that still offer them (like Buffalo Springs) and re-allocate those slots to actual IM races. I know that's happening through contract attrition but probably not soon enough, IMO.

    The more likely scenario is they introduce new IM races and the slots go that way as opposed to increasing current IM events from 50 to whatever.

    Heck, Coach P. may not have qualified at IMLP with a 5th place finish if LP only had 50 slots.
  • I say take out all lottery/other slots. They call it a World Championship. Kona should be nothing but the top AGers from IM races around the world...
  • I'm not sure the ending the lottery is an option as John Collins made it a requirement when he sold the rights to continue to have a lottery. 

    Having moved to the new ownership I'm sure they have looked at ways to gain control over this but this is a money maker for them.  How many thousands sign up for the lottery, 6 to 8 at $40 plus the passport club of another $50.  That's 540k to 720K in revenue that they would have to make up somewhere and I don't think that's what the current management is all about. 

    As for the agrument of being a real world championship I'll leave that for others to debate.  One thing I will say is the expansion is forcing those that qualify to a whole different level as discussion in the 'why are the coaches doing 30 hour thread".

    Gordon

  • While most triathletes would probably prefer to watch coverage of the pro and elite age group races in the NBC broadcast of Kona, sponsors apparently prefer to include the human interest stories in the coverage. Since WTC needs the sponsors to keep putting up cash, WTC is never going to eliminate the sponsor slots. Same goes for the CEO/"charity" slots.
    One thing that sets triathlon apart from almost every other sport (except marathons) is ability to race on the same course, at the same time, as the pro's. Take away all the lottery slots, and you lose some of that charm. Since WTC is never going to make it a strict, must qualify as a top AGer at at IM race, I like the idea of keeping one avenue open for those of us have neither (a) the ability/time to qualify; and (b) the money or compelling personal story to be given a slot. While reducing the number of lottery slots to open more qualifying slots seems fair, I would favor keeping abot 50 lottery slots open so that we can all hope to one day race there.
    Besides, I remember reading that when John Collins sold the race in 1980, he specifically required the owners to reserve a few slots for ordinary people. So it is unclear whether WTC can eliminate the lottery slots altogether.
  • With the fewer slots per race, Hawaii is really turning out to be a truly WC - as only the very best of each race will be there...I just looked at IM Switzerland - which is generally considered one of the 'easy' places to qualify in Europe ...with the new allocation, the 35-39 AG is looking at a 9:18 qualifying time !!!

    There goes my Kona dream...

    Too bad for those of us who will now never qualify...but I think it is the right thing to do...making the WC a place for the true champions....

    Now, if only they scrapped the charity, lottery, media and sponsor places as well....
  • I think Matt S. at some point did a calculation of the FTP and Vdot needed to qualify (based on 2009 numbers)....would be interesting to see this with the 2012 allocation of slots as well.... :-)
  • Do you think that the new rules for pros will have any effect on Kona slots? I read somewhere (prolly ST or something like that) that quite a bit of the lower part of the pro field gets beat by the top AGers every year in Kona and that the new rules were aimed at making it a "real" championship for the pros. So if that's true, do more of those lower pros go back to AG qualifying? Meaning less pros and more openings at Kona for AGers (which would be necessary if those lower pros started taking away AG spots)?
  • Posted By Jennifer Burbatt on 28 Jul 2011 08:56 AM

    Do you think that the new rules for pros will have any effect on Kona slots? I read somewhere (prolly ST or something like that) that quite a bit of the lower part of the pro field gets beat by the top AGers every year in Kona and that the new rules were aimed at making it a "real" championship for the pros. So if that's true, do more of those lower pros go back to AG qualifying? Meaning less pros and more openings at Kona for AGers (which would be necessary if those lower pros started taking away AG spots)?



    I *think* the NET impact of this is neutral.  I have noticed and heard of a few C level pros that are going back to AG racing because of this, but on the other side I know a few AGers (i.e. myself and some of my peers) that want to go pro just to get the benefits of the Ironman Pr Membership.  I know that as Pro I have VERY little chance at making it to Kona, but I'm ok with that as I'm starting to be much more interested in racing more oftern than planning a year out and focusing on only one race.  Overall, I think these are very small numbers of people we are talking about that are changing their status do to the ironman pro membership program.

    What I think is really happening is that a lot of B/C level Pros are starting to focus on series like Rev3, Challenge, etc where they can actually make more in prize money, usually don't have to pay any entry fee at all, and don't have to deal with the WTC points system.

    There has always been some AGers that really should race pro but stay in AG to get on the podium at every race as well as some guys that are Pro and really are not competing at that level.  I think there will always continue to be some of each no matter what the rules are.

    That's just my opinion from the small group of Pros and Competitive AGers that I stay in touch with and discuss this with.

  • Hmmm, the next few years will definitely be interesting. I'd be shocked if WTC dropped all slots from a full IM, I just think you'd lose a large chunk of racers that "even" out the field throughout the day and make the race manageable. Though I could see it going to the very minimum of 1 per AG.

    And I love the Kona lottery. Sorry the idea that only "pros" and AG winners should be allowed to race there is silly to me. Most of the people I know who have gotten lottery slots are people that love the sport and have been involved in it for some time (it's quite the $$$ commitment for someone to do off the cuff). I think one of the best things about triathlon is that you race the same course on the same day as people that are considered the best.
  • I am all for the lottery, and for keeping things "elite", it just freaks me out that so few folks will actually get to go. But then this is something the Euro folks have been dealing with for years. Bo, you should come race here in the US!!!! Bet we can find you a homestay! image
  • Posted By Bo Ekkelund on 26 Jul 2011 02:32 AM

    I think Matt S. at some point did a calculation of the FTP and Vdot needed to qualify (based on 2009 numbers)....would be interesting to see this with the 2012 allocation of slots as well.... :-)
    Bo,  I will put this on the ToDo list! I am also interested in the trend. My View is that the time to KQ are getting faster at a faster pace.  There are some amazing timings being posted to get for fewer slots.  I hope this performance increase is real and not a Tour De France "enhanced” situation.    I know it happens in our sport BUT, I hoped the best of the best are above this.  Will see.  Keep pushing and don't give up the dream of Kona. The run down Ali'i Drive is an experience like none other!



     

     

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