I had just read through those, too. Crazy scary! I'm hoping that the half and full racers are seasoned triathletes and not doing their first. Even our new, small, local races are run better then these seem to have been. Looks like a lot of their list of promises were broken.
So seriously, what was the real attraction to this series? Really??? Only thing I can guess is trophy hounds would love the single year AG which combined w/ low numbers would end up awarding something like what, 80-90% of the field an award??? WTH?
Can somebody suggest single year AG for Kona slots to WTC...
Looks like I'll be the guinea pig for the HITS HIM. I'm in for Ocala in late March. We are staying in Orlando over spring break, and so I figured I would give it a shot. If they cancel the race, I'll have a nice vacation, and if it's a big cluster and not well run, I'll still have a nice vacation. If I find I'm not up for the trainer miles, I'll switch to the Oly. I could not see choosing anything from this series as an 'A' race, or booking an entire trip around one of their races. Hadn't checked out the single year age group awards. Thats funny!
I agree this race series has some major issues, and is not likely to survive. I'm kind of surprised that Dave Scott would lend his name to something that seems so far fetched. They have chosen some awesome venues, but at really odd times of the year. Traverse City, Michigan is a gorgeous venue, but October? Didn't anyone think about water temp?
I have made the Cooperstown HIM my second and last HIM of the season. hope it is a go. I find it interesting that this series would not fly. We have a local organization called Somersault Promotions and all of there races are like the HIT series. Granted, they seem to be a nightware to run, but they always do well.
I'm kind of surprised that Dave Scott would lend his name to something that seems so far fetched.
Dave had lent his name to an Oly/Sprint wknd here in Dallas several years ago, called "Dave Scott TX Man". The RD that ran it also had a weekend-long clinic associated with it (which I did once), with s/b/r components over 1.5 days. Personally, I think he didn't do it initially in order to see how well run it was, then removed his name after the 3 year contract/commitment (contract, or did it start going downhill - because "TX Man" isn't around any longer either).
But, he is a nice guy nonetheless for a guy from Davis CA (he smacktalked my college as a bunch of thugs! haha)
Wow. Surprising that they did even a worse job than people expected. I bet there will be some interesting stories after today's race. It gets legit cold in the desert in the AM. Water temps in the 50's for an IM...we know from the experiences at SG and CDA what that does to the race and if I were racing I'd plan to be self supporting.
Prediction: dead by April unless the really get their shit together and publish the crap out of what they are going to do to fix future races.
I'll be sure to post a race report, or vacation report I've done a couple of first time events that I have really enjoyed. I did my due diligence before signing up, and they worked out well. I've also done events that have been around a while, and wondered why they were so popular. I'm winging it a bit more with this one, but we'll see how it goes.
Kind of a shame to see HITS getting off to a bad start in Palm Springs. I can't imagine the 2.4 mile swim in 50 something degree water will go well. SG was 60 this past year, and I thought it was way too freaking cold. I had the worst crampfest swim of my life.
Air temp is in the high 30's, will probably warm up to the low 60's, maybe. That's a function of choosing a stupid date for the race. This is SoCal and I know you poor northern bastards think it's 70 here all year, but we, especially in the deserts, get cold temps in the morning. The absolute latest races out here are in early November and they are typically reverse tri's with a nominal ~100yd pool swim at the end.
A full and HIM scheduled in Palm Springs in December just displays a complete lack of knowledge or due diligence on the part of the organizers.
+1 to Rich. I think the HITS concept is pretty cool and I'd like to see them flourish as a non-WTC event, but it's really too bad that they're messing it up so early. Lots of ugly details on the ST forums. I was almost tempted to sign up for one of the distances in Palm Springs when I first saw it advertised (heck, even the open distance just because it's free!), but I guess I made the right choice not to jump the gun...
I agree that the series will probably die out for poor planning and now that their reputation is going to take a pretty big hit. Oh well, really wished it could have worked out though.
I read only 20 people did the full Iron race. That must've been weird, especially for the volunteers who may have gone an hour or more without seeing someone.
7 figure ad budget, boxes and stools in transition...but NO calories at the bike aid stations.
I want to live in a world where I can think a sport is cool and then convince a table of other $$$$$$ peeps to throw money at a race series when I know zero about how to actually run a race. I'd love to be in on the conference call or whatever this morning :-)
HITS put out a nice video on youtube with some enthusiastic racers that obviously had a good time. They also claimed over 1000 entrants, but here's the finishing numbers:
Open - 141 (this is the free race)
Sprint - 252
Olympic - 191
Half - 119
Full - 20
You know they lost a lot of money on that race because that's only 582 paying finishers (+ an estimated 100 or so DNF/DNS) to cover all costs. WTC cancelled the Clearwater 5150 because they only had 700 registered; and yet they only had to produce a single race on a single day. To take just lifeguards as an example, HITS would have to pay them (what few they had) for 5 races over 2 days. Unless day 2 numbers come up significantly that will be where they have to cut losses. However, if they fix the other problems, I still think that HITS can survive as a sprint/olympic series. The transition area is certainly going to be a hit for folks tired of jostling to protect what little space they have next to their bike.
I had added up the numbers (723 total finishers including the free race) and also wondered how they could advertise "a field of over 1,000 athletes". Are they counting the athletic volunteers and spectators, too?
In the picture with the bikes in the transition boxes (pic 11 of 18), I wonder how the closest bike in the picture fit in. The tires look too wide to fit in the slot, so is the front chainring keeping it upright? The chairs in the background seem to be strewn throughout the transition area, which could get in the way. It is nice to have the extra room around your bike, but it seems to just lead to more crap in transition to trip over. Since they still have their chips on and she's wearing a swim cap, I'm assuming they are in T1.
I would like to do a sprint or oly just to say I did it. Probably not a half, and especially not a full.
Curious how the awards ceremony went. Awards to each age must have taken forever.
Actually, the whole fancy slot for your bike + stool thing kinda pisses me off when you contrast it with failing to do the simple shit like, you know, marking the course, having lifeguards on the swim, friggin' calories on the bike course...
Still a few kinks, but not a disaster it seems. Not sure if there will be enough racers in the long term to boost the confidence of the long course races, but I think the short courses still have a chance.
Well, on the positive side, they had 1 more IM finisher than at Palm Springs, but I still don't see how the long course series can survive with such paltry numbers. I would not want to race a full with just a handful of participants; and with fewer than 500 paying customers they must be bleeding money bad. However, if they can hang in there the numbers will improve with the weather. Competition with WTC is a good thing.
Okay, so this kind of annoys me. I was looking up bike shipping options on Raceday Transport, and apparently they have bike shipping to every HITS race, but not other very well established races (like Vineman Full, which I intend on racing)...
Anson, If you are interested in Raceday Transport, send them an email. They were pretty responsive to my inquiry, although I'm not sure they will be able to accommodate my request. They implied that their current list of events is not final, so if you have a group of people that would be interested in using them for Vineman, it couldn't hurt to let them know. It may end up being a market they decide to pursue.
@Sarah: Thanks for the suggestion. I was just surprised that there were shipping options to Vineman half a few weeks before, but none listed for Vineman full given the popularity of the event.
@Rich: Yeah, I was thinking of driving, but I have a $250 Raceday Transport gift certificate and I'm tempted to spend it unwisely. I'm also not a huge fan of driving all the way to NorCal, as my patience/endurance behind the wheel is a lot lower than on a bike...
I am also skeptical about their long distance stuff. In my opinion they have expanded too fast too soon.
I will admit that I am rooting for them. I love it that Rev3, HITS, and other independents are giving the WTC some form of competition. I hate that WTC has a quasi-monopoly in the states. I think this was the motivation for WTC to change the Kona Qualification (12 races I think) to lock up market share and make it harder for the competition to get racers. WIth the incredible Demand someone needs to supply. It is only a matter of time until newer firms move in.
I thnk HITS is going after the series/championship midset that WTC has championed with Kona. I wish they would forget that, because the numbers are with the mid-pack, bop, non-pointy end field ( only 1500ish Kona Qualifiers in the world). JUST FOCUS ON QUALITY EVENTS. (Thumbs up the REV3). Put on qualiaty iron-distance events that the masses of age-groupers can race, in contrast to the WTC events. Forget the short stuff, most people will not travel 1000 miles for a sprint.
I think this was the motivation for WTC to change the Kona Qualification (12 races I think) to lock up market share and make it harder for the competition to get racers.
It was without a doubt the main reason they instituted the Legacy Lottery. I'll check off IM #3 in 2012 and the magical 12 number has me second guessing my big race in 2013. I was planning on Challenge Roth but a part of me thinks IM Regenburg because it counts towards my 12. It's sort of a dumb thought because I doubt I'll ever get to 11 or 12 full distance races anyway. I was 100% for Challenge Roth prior to the introduction of the new Kona lottery system, now I'm more like 75/25.
I think this was the motivation for WTC to change the Kona Qualification (12 races I think) to lock up market share and make it harder for the competition to get racers.
In response to Gene and the thread -
I think WTC was forced to make this change to a lot of backlash from triathletes who have entered the lottery for years, paid their dues many times over and would not get lottery slots...only to see The Biggest Loser "competing" instead. While I don't qualify for the legacy lottery, I think it is only fair that those that try for years, pay the crazy WTC entry fees, have a better chance of getting in than the first timers (or Sheri Gruenfeld who seems to win the lottery several times over - sorry it had to be said).
On the same note, WTC is getting greedy and starting to lose some race entries...I think the 5150's are short lived and they are forcing some races...like the Pocono 70.3. Sorry, I live in PA and a tri in the Pocono's in October - Heck NO! Some of these I think will close down as fast as they started.
On the plus side, at least the REV3 races are giving WTC some competition and those are picking up more and more steam to help meet the demands of all the new racers. I hope HITS can overcome the poor planning.
Saw today that the organizers of the B2B have announced a new full and half in Key West for Jan 2013...the Bone Island Triathlon. The long course attendance at HITS Naples must have been sobering to them because if HITS survives, the two races will basically go head-to-head next year and I would give the nod to Key West since that is a proven tourist destination while Naples is not. Regardless, Florida is now over endowed with long course races (see below). Unless triathlon keeps growing hand over fist, there has to be a market shake out pretty soon!
Full opportunities (5): Bone Island, HITS Naples, HITS Ocala, Great Floridian, Ironman Florida Half opportunities (10): Bone Island, HITS Naples, HITS Ocala, Gator Half, Intimidator, Gulf Coast, Ameliaman, Rev3 Sarasota, Miami70.3, Miamiman
@ Bob - holy crap...that's 11 halfs! Can't imagine any other state has so many races. You could have a career just racing long course, but some of those would be pretty lonely affairs.
Well, on the positive side, they had 1 more IM finisher than at Palm Springs, but I still don't see how the long course series can survive with such paltry numbers. I would not want to race a full with just a handful of participants; and with fewer than 500 paying customers they must be bleeding money bad. However, if they can hang in there the numbers will improve with the weather. Competition with WTC is a good thing.
Free race: 83 finishers
Sprint: 168 finishers
Olympic: 141 finishers
HIM: 119 finishers
IM: 21 finishers
The finisher numbers for the Corpus Christi races:
Free race: 55
Sprint: 119
Olympic: 95
HIM: 66
IM: 16
That's less than 300 paid finishers. They're not going to make it to 2013.
Comments
I had just read through those, too. Crazy scary! I'm hoping that the half and full racers are seasoned triathletes and not doing their first. Even our new, small, local races are run better then these seem to have been. Looks like a lot of their list of promises were broken.
Here's the direct links....
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3663872
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3663911
So seriously, what was the real attraction to this series? Really??? Only thing I can guess is trophy hounds would love the single year AG which combined w/ low numbers would end up awarding something like what, 80-90% of the field an award??? WTH?
Can somebody suggest single year AG for Kona slots to WTC...
I agree this race series has some major issues, and is not likely to survive. I'm kind of surprised that Dave Scott would lend his name to something that seems so far fetched. They have chosen some awesome venues, but at really odd times of the year. Traverse City, Michigan is a gorgeous venue, but October? Didn't anyone think about water temp?
http://somersault.ca/
Dave had lent his name to an Oly/Sprint wknd here in Dallas several years ago, called "Dave Scott TX Man". The RD that ran it also had a weekend-long clinic associated with it (which I did once), with s/b/r components over 1.5 days. Personally, I think he didn't do it initially in order to see how well run it was, then removed his name after the 3 year contract/commitment (contract, or did it start going downhill - because "TX Man" isn't around any longer either).
But, he is a nice guy nonetheless for a guy from Davis CA (he smacktalked my college
as a bunch of thugs! haha)
Please give us a race report when you do!
Prediction: dead by April unless the really get their shit together and publish the crap out of what they are going to do to fix future races.
I'll be sure to post a race report, or vacation report
I've done a couple of first time events that I have really enjoyed. I did my due diligence before signing up, and they worked out well. I've also done events that have been around a while, and wondered why they were so popular. I'm winging it a bit more with this one, but we'll see how it goes.
Kind of a shame to see HITS getting off to a bad start in Palm Springs. I can't imagine the 2.4 mile swim in 50 something degree water will go well. SG was 60 this past year, and I thought it was way too freaking cold. I had the worst crampfest swim of my life.
A full and HIM scheduled in Palm Springs in December just displays a complete lack of knowledge or due diligence on the part of the organizers.
I agree that the series will probably die out for poor planning and now that their reputation is going to take a pretty big hit. Oh well, really wished it could have worked out though.
Hmm, here's 70.3 RR from today on ST:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/S..._P3665698/
Went better than expected, apparently. Check out photos of the transition area in the album. Those individual seats and boxes are pretty cool!
I want to live in a world where I can think a sport is cool and then convince a table of other $$$$$$ peeps to throw money at a race series when I know zero about how to actually run a race. I'd love to be in on the conference call or whatever this morning :-)
HITS put out a nice video on youtube with some enthusiastic racers that obviously had a good time. They also claimed over 1000 entrants, but here's the finishing numbers:
Open - 141 (this is the free race)
Sprint - 252
Olympic - 191
Half - 119
Full - 20
You know they lost a lot of money on that race because that's only 582 paying finishers (+ an estimated 100 or so DNF/DNS) to cover all costs. WTC cancelled the Clearwater 5150 because they only had 700 registered; and yet they only had to produce a single race on a single day. To take just lifeguards as an example, HITS would have to pay them (what few they had) for 5 races over 2 days. Unless day 2 numbers come up significantly that will be where they have to cut losses. However, if they fix the other problems, I still think that HITS can survive as a sprint/olympic series. The transition area is certainly going to be a hit for folks tired of jostling to protect what little space they have next to their bike.
The transition area looked cool from the pictures.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150501029476085.424630.681736084&type=1
In the picture with the bikes in the transition boxes (pic 11 of 18), I wonder how the closest bike in the picture fit in. The tires look too wide to fit in the slot, so is the front chainring keeping it upright? The chairs in the background seem to be strewn throughout the transition area, which could get in the way. It is nice to have the extra room around your bike, but it seems to just lead to more crap in transition to trip over. Since they still have their chips on and she's wearing a swim cap, I'm assuming they are in T1.
I would like to do a sprint or oly just to say I did it. Probably not a half, and especially not a full.
Curious how the awards ceremony went. Awards to each age must have taken forever.
Actually, the whole fancy slot for your bike + stool thing kinda pisses me off when you contrast it with failing to do the simple shit like, you know, marking the course, having lifeguards on the swim, friggin' calories on the bike course...
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/HITS_Naples_-_any_reports_P3714595/
Still a few kinks, but not a disaster it seems. Not sure if there will be enough racers in the long term to boost the confidence of the long course races, but I think the short courses still have a chance.
Free race: 83 finishers
Sprint: 168 finishers
Olympic: 141 finishers
HIM: 119 finishers
IM: 21 finishers
Okay, so this kind of annoys me. I was looking up bike shipping options on Raceday Transport, and apparently they have bike shipping to every HITS race, but not other very well established races (like Vineman Full, which I intend on racing)...
If you are interested in Raceday Transport, send them an email. They were pretty responsive to my inquiry, although I'm not sure they will be able to accommodate my request. They implied that their current list of events is not final, so if you have a group of people that would be interested in using them for Vineman, it couldn't hurt to let them know. It may end up being a market they decide to pursue.
@Sarah: Thanks for the suggestion. I was just surprised that there were shipping options to Vineman half a few weeks before, but none listed for Vineman full given the popularity of the event.
@Rich: Yeah, I was thinking of driving, but I have a $250 Raceday Transport gift certificate and I'm tempted to spend it unwisely
. I'm also not a huge fan of driving all the way to NorCal, as my patience/endurance behind the wheel is a lot lower than on a bike...
I am also skeptical about their long distance stuff. In my opinion they have expanded too fast too soon.
I will admit that I am rooting for them. I love it that Rev3, HITS, and other independents are giving the WTC some form of competition. I hate that WTC has a quasi-monopoly in the states. I think this was the motivation for WTC to change the Kona Qualification (12 races I think) to lock up market share and make it harder for the competition to get racers. WIth the incredible Demand someone needs to supply. It is only a matter of time until newer firms move in.
I thnk HITS is going after the series/championship midset that WTC has championed with Kona. I wish they would forget that, because the numbers are with the mid-pack, bop, non-pointy end field ( only 1500ish Kona Qualifiers in the world). JUST FOCUS ON QUALITY EVENTS. (Thumbs up the REV3). Put on qualiaty iron-distance events that the masses of age-groupers can race, in contrast to the WTC events. Forget the short stuff, most people will not travel 1000 miles for a sprint.
My 2 cents.
Gene
It was without a doubt the main reason they instituted the Legacy Lottery. I'll check off IM #3 in 2012 and the magical 12 number has me second guessing my big race in 2013. I was planning on Challenge Roth but a part of me thinks IM Regenburg because it counts towards my 12. It's sort of a dumb thought because I doubt I'll ever get to 11 or 12 full distance races anyway. I was 100% for Challenge Roth prior to the introduction of the new Kona lottery system, now I'm more like 75/25.
Full opportunities (5): Bone Island, HITS Naples, HITS Ocala, Great Floridian, Ironman Florida
Half opportunities (10): Bone Island, HITS Naples, HITS Ocala, Gator Half, Intimidator, Gulf Coast, Ameliaman, Rev3 Sarasota, Miami70.3, Miamiman
@ Bob - holy crap...that's 11 halfs! Can't imagine any other state has so many races. You could have a career just racing long course, but some of those would be pretty lonely affairs.
Just read on ST that the HITS races in Michigan and Wisconsin have been cancelled.
The finisher numbers for the Corpus Christi races:
Free race: 55
Sprint: 119
Olympic: 95
HIM: 66
IM: 16
That's less than 300 paid finishers. They're not going to make it to 2013.