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How is a "No Chain Day" setup?

I've been doing Long Course for 5 years now and the one thing I can't put my finger on is how to create conditions to setup a day where it feels like there's no chain on the bike.  I seem to have those No Chain Days when I should either be taking a rest day or I have had a real hard effort the day before.  In other words, when I start the No Chain Day ride I'm thinking "Man, this is going to suck" because I'm tired or expecting to feel tired.  I rarely have a No Chain Day when I am rested or was OFF the day before.  Mini "tapers" rarely work at all for me and usually result in flat workouts.

Discuss...I'd like to hear any/all feedback and opinions.

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Comments

  • I'm interested in following this also as I'm famous for failing at the taper game. Strong when I should be tired and flat on race day when it counts. Who else has had this and how did you conquer it?

  • @Jeff — your experience mirrors mine. 20 plus years ago, I had the same experience with full mary racing. I was good at the last few full distance training sessions but when tapered for 2 weeks, felt detrained (or out of form) by the time the race came around.
    Have been doing HIM for 4 years now and and found a similar thing. Struggle to do the workouts in the last week and a half and feel flat on race day.
    Just tried a different taper approach at my last HIM — did my race rehersal 8 days out from the race, and really pushed the run portion. Next day, rest, then the final week of the intermediate program. It took until wednesday to feel I could race (on Sunday), and was ready to race by Friday. Felt good in the race. Repeated the same approach for an Oly 3 weeks ago, and it also seemed better.
    Conceptually, the taper needs to balance detraining with freshness from lightening the load — it makes sense (to me) that the length of taper is an individual thing that you should experiment with.
    That said, I will be sticking with the plan for my first IM in May.
  • @Peter Thx, good stuff. Anybody else feel similar? @Jim, sorry to hijack the thread but maybe this us what you're looking for too?

    I've had great legs on RR w/ 112 mi ride and long bricks with no taper and felt better than race day most times!

  • Do either of you use TSB in TP/WKO? Curious what your numbers were going into the race and how they related to performance?
  • I was strongly positive w/ TSB at every big "A" race. I've tried and tried to correlate TSB to my race performance and have discovered this is just another number, another metric to follow with interest but not having an absolute correlation to race performance.

    I track S/B/R on  WKO+, using 1 TSS point per minute of actual steady or Z3 swimming. Little more for ez swims, little more for high intensity swims but apply it consistently throughout the year so I feel it is useful for  comparing and using TSB values.

  • @Jim Tell me if you want me to start another thread or if this is what you're looking for too. DOn't want to hikack your thread.

  • Posted By Jeff Brandenburg on 03 Jan 2012 07:32 AM

    I was strongly positive w/ TSB at every big "A" race. I've tried and tried to correlate TSB to my race performance and have discovered this is just another number, another metric to follow with interest but not having an absolute correlation to race performance.

    I agree. It is indeed difficult to predict a "no chain day". I was lucky and had one of those at Steelhead 70.3 this past year, where I was able to ride a 90% IF then have a good run. I have no idea how that happened, and I was not particularly well-rested because I was partially "training through" that race. I will try like hell to replicate it, but I think sometimes there are just factors that scome together that you really can't control perfectly.

  • Yes Matt, exactly. I've crushed some races that weren't "A" races I'd tapered for and failed many, many times at a "traditional" taper. My best "surprise" IM performance was when I did IMF in 2007 after underperforming at IMCDA. Had just built house and moved in that July and trained more for fun and haphazardly rather than to KQ and felt pretty good despite a running injury (metatarsalgia) that had plagued me all year.

    Same for HIM, crushed several races I was kind of training through.

    What have others tried and found to be helpful in peaking for a HIM or IM when the standard taper just doesn't seem to work?

  • @Jeff - THIS is exactly the discussion I wanted to start here.  Some good info already.  Thanks for sharing your perspective.  With respect to WKO+ numbers...I used to be a numbers hound.  Was all crazy focused on TSB, TSS, CTL.  When I joined EN I kind of stopped logging/looking at my WKO+.  I simply just "do what I have been told" and get the workouts done.  I sometimes analyze big rides, tests, etc.  Part of the reason I've lost interest in being a nerd with WKO+ is because I found that RARELY (more like never) does a positive TSB result in a great training/racing performance for me.

     

     

  • Me too Jim. Always looking for a better way. Even tried flipping weeks #3 and #2 out from IMC to see if I'd get some rest earlier then be sharper for race but the crash prevented me from testing my theory.

    Anyone else have success modifying a tradional "stepdown" taper? ie: the ole 60%, 40%,then  race week method?

  • I have done a lot of tracking on this issue to little avail. I did a very comprehensive comparative assessment of all my big races and what I did leading up to them. It didn't tell me much. For example, I did a pretty aggressive bike workout the Thursday before Racine 70.3 and had a great race. Same thing for an olympic that I PR-ed in June. A month later before Steelhead 70.3 I did a huge ride the Sunday beforehand, but zero biking during taper week due to vacation...and ended up with an awesome race. A month after that I did very little biking leading up to Vegas 70.3 and performed terribly. To me the lesson was all about the overall season fatigue, and not about the specific workouts.

    Incidentally, with respect to running (I know this is starting to get quite off topic since the original question was about biking), I don't vary the pattern much...I always do my last run before a Sunday race on either Tuesday or Wednesday. I try for about 30-40 minutes on Monday and Wednesday and that's it. Of course, that said, my best VDOT ever was in a Saturday 15k race where I did an intense 10-miler training run the Thursday beforehand (the race was supposed to be a throwaway). Go figure. But I just don't have the balls to do hard run workouts so close to a race.

    Btw before the epic Steelhead 70.3 where I biked a 90% IF I should mention that the race was delayed. So I went hunting for some food and ended up at a greasy spoon diner. I ordered some fruit and a short stack of pancakes, intending to eat about half of one of the pancakes. Instead I ate almost all of them. The meal was 800 calories. I dialed back to one pre-race gel but go figure all of my prefectly-scripted nutrition rituals went out the window after that day...
  • I think Matt is on to something and my run experiences suggest the same. Maybe it has more to do with how deep a fatigue hole you've dug in weeks leading to the taper.

    Looking back on marathons and my tapers to them, races with more taper seemed to be worse than races with less. BUT the races with less taper and better results followed training that didn't bury me in crushing fatigue where the others did.

    I'm thinking weeks 4 to 6 before the event are were you find balance. Your last big efforts need to be monitered internally and not cross the fine line between best effort and bust. The thing is, that's when you are feeling your best and want to maximize your results. I guess what I am saying is pay attentiion and take a day if you need to - especcially in the final big weeks leading to a shorter taper and the event itself.

    As far as being off topic, fatige is fatigue and I think that what holds true for run fatige is true for bike fatigue as far as performance goes - if your legs are shelled, you can't do your best and it sucks all the way to the finish.

  • @Matt I also agree the overall fatigue is probably the major culprit here. I have also tinkered w/ the constants for ATL which would affect TSB. I tried changing to 8, 9 and even 10 days to see what would happen but again not a great correlation.

  • @Steve ANother good point. Was this partly why the last big RR was moved from 2 weeks out to 3 weeks last year?

  • I've had similar experiences. Last year I recorded my best ever 112mile ride the day after another century ride, and having done another century a few days before that. I should have been exhausted but I was on fire? I also feel much flatter the day after a rest day even in OS. I've actually been thinking about doing my OS tests without having a rest day prior to avoid that feeling.

    I really don't know how to apply this to a taper. I believe in tapers and in complete rest days of at least 1 per week but they do make you feel flat.

    One thing I do and can suggest is pay more attention to RPE in training and racing. We have become slaves to numbers. If you feel good screw the numbers and just go. Matt's a good example with a .90 IF HIM. I am going to be racing OLY/HIM Mooseman back to back this year and have been thinking ,hard one, easy the other, vice versa , or just IM pace. I think I am gonna RACE the OLY and then RACE the HIM on RPE of that day! Will the HIM be a "no chain day" ?
  •  Two threads here:

    1. Why are some training days easier than others? I mostly chalk it up to biorythyms, weather, social environment - externalities like that. We're talking about emotional states here, not physical or mental parameters, I think. I say just enjoy it when it happens, don't try to re-reate it, that usually doesn't work. Kind of like my personal rule, if I have a gresat ski run, don't go back and try to do it again, it won't be the same.

    2. How to ensure the best possible race day performance, focused on workload and type leading into a race? In 12+ years, over 100 races including 20+ @ 140.6, I have not found any consistent rules which apply to me here, much less anyone else. But, being an analytical type, I did try to correlate training hours in the 5-6 days before an IM with results. I found I did my best races when I had 5-9 hours of "training" in the week before. Something everyday, mixed among S/B/R. AND most important, I think, throwing in about 6 30-60 second hard efforts several times in each discipline during that week, to keep the circuits wired and the energy factories humming. II believe the taper is far overshadowed by one's willingness and ability to put on and wear a game day face. And that starts weeks or months before the event with deciding on desired goals/outcomes, and what it will take not only during training, but also when racing.

    E.g., I'm sure Chrissie Wellington did NOT have a "no-chain day" this year @ Kona.

  •  Great thoughts here. Piling on Al's notes, I think my best races have come after a hard rest right after my final race sim (14 days out), as in resting Sunday / Monday / Tuesday....then doing some regular training for Wed through Saturday...then keeping things moving for the rest of IM week. I don't take any IM week days off until the Sat of the race...I get something in every day to move. A build up to rest into a race has never worked for me.

    But as Al noted, no IM race has ever felt easy. I have just felt better prepared to handle the work on some days...other days I gotta work really fookin hard. 

  • Good stuff Al. @P, you think the Sun/Mon/Tues rest unloads the fatigue then you sharpen back up the last 10 days fresher?

  • @P - Tell us more about the Sun/Mon/Tues rest ritual please.  Not total rest I assume?  What are you doing those days?

  • Yeah - this does seem to be a very personal thing - how to be ready on race day - as clearly indicated in this thread. I too have had great shorter races (Oly,HIM) & training days when you least expect it (right in the middle of a training cycle, no taper). But I don't think I could go into a IM w/o some kind of taper and expect to do well. But I don't have enough experience at 140.6 to even know what works or doesn't work for me. Regardless, I think I have a plan for IMMT this year (whether it works is a different story).

    I believe my body needs to first really unload all that fatigue built up through the IM 12 wk prep period (camps, HIMs etc.). Then once fully rested, work my way back into race day readiness - which shouldn't take very long at all. So that means big rest period - like 4-5 days of very little activity (swimming if anything) either after last race sim (which is 21 days out) or more likely do it 12-16 days out. Probably even put some weight back on (which will be very hard to handle mentally). Then slowly increase workload just enough to let my body know that we are ramping up - getting ready for another cycle of endurance training. But this time its just for a 1 day event rather than 12 wk cycle or multi-day camp. So load on some fatigue - but just tease it - nothing too long, but z3 work w/some short intense intervals. Body should say "hey, I can go longer" but you stop - you save it. But that way I'm working my way forward towards race day (in terms of distance/intensity) rather than the other way.

    Anywho - its a plan - and at least I have that - which may just be a mental placebo - but if it works - all the better. If it doesn't, I'll have something to work from for the next IM taper. This is just another piece to the puzzle that is endurance training.
  • Sounds like a reasonable strategy Pete. So you do 4-5 days of REAL rest then start cranking it back huh? Patrick, what form of rest do you take?

  • I have done similiar as P and Al state. My Sunday and Monday were total rest-- Nothing, Tuesday was an easy bike (70%) Then back at it. I agree with the week of the race to do something in each sport and although less time throw in some intensity (Z4) for sure. But at the same time I think alot are individual to taper so what works for some does not for others.

    My worst feeling race was IMLP 2010 and I got no training in on Wed, Thurs, Fri leading up to the race and felt like total crap for pretty much the whole race. (Although part of that may have been the wrestling match for the first 2.4 of the swim.)
  • Am I the only one who has had some crazy break through performances the morning after drinking 5 pints of beer and sleeping like shit for about 4 hours? I am too scared to try this before an A race, but it sure is tempting. Not sure if it carb loading or what, but other days when I am rested, fed, hydrated, and loose I fall flat. It is frustrating when It seems like there is no rhyme or reason for things you try to plan months for!
  • Wow Jay, by my count you had 25 pints of beer and slept 20 hours before your last race! Impressive!

  • Even in my drinking days if I had 25 pints I'd need to sleep for 20 hour too! But I wouldn't have been in any shape to race..... more like crawling into the shower to get the puke out of my hair!
  • Clearly Jay is more man than you or I Steve! LOL

  • What the HELL? I didn't do that, LOL...stupid iPad! Haha. You know what I meant...jerks. :-)
  • Of course this is all very individual, but all of last year I took the day 2 days before a race off and did a workout the day before the race. This worked significantly better for me than having a day off the day before a race. I tried that because I found that I almost never had a great day (training or racing) after a day off.

    I modify the workout the day before the race based on the race distance and priority. For example before a C sprint I do a full ride/brick on Saturday. But before an A IM, I do some short intervals on the bike and run at race pace.
  • and I have always tended to do better if I taper back and keep some intensity the last two weeks, the take the day 2 days out off, followed by doing a short swim (with drills and bursts of "speed"), bike (5-10 miles with high spinning >100 RPM 3-5 times), and a 1-2 mile run (@ race pace)

  • @ Al, I completely agree...we are talking about two different things. The intersection of those things -- a "no chain day" and an actual race, is really the holy grail. But if you can't consistently create that -- and I believe it is impossible -- then I guess you just take a great race performance, which will probably be painful and sometimes feel like thre was not only a chain. but a resistance unit too. The latter seems to be very individual but people seem to be able to find things that work relatively consistently. I really buy into the "macro view" (i.e. accumulated fatigue profile) vs. the specific workouts in race week. But different things work for different people on that dimension. The "no chain day" factors, on the other hand, seem to be totally unpredictable.
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