Nutrition Webinar
I was furiously taking notes during this session as I felt I was getting very valuable information and didn't want to forget it. What stood out most for me was the idea of not drinking water but rather only sports drink. I also realized that it is challenging to take in so much sodium so I have been using Base electrolyte salts developed by Chris Lieto which seems to have been working. I have always been able to eat the Power Bars so I plan to try them tomorrow on my RR but where does one put all those bars? I also use gels in a flask as it fits 4 and add the base salts. I felt like the idea is to carry all of your nutrition with you, which makes me ask if I should be using a fuel belt on the HIM run....thinking yes. Finally, the " what to eat on race day" and before info was great and I will be eating a power bar, banana and two cups of applesauce with protein powder for breakfast tomorrow. I want to add turmeric to the mix as it reduces inflammation.... What did others get out of the webinar?
Comments
What stood out most for me was the idea of not drinking water but rather only sports drink. - I know what you mean. I used to drink sport drink with gels and then I read it was a no no, so I changed. Now I am going to go back to what I used to do. It makes sense me re: sugar levels.
I also realized that it is challenging to take in so much sodium so I have been using Base electrolyte salts developed by Chris Lieto which seems to have been working. - that is why I like to use powerbar and those gels have 200 mg of sodium in them. If it is especially hot out I will use salt stick salt tabs.
I have always been able to eat the Power Bars so I plan to try them tomorrow on my RR but where does one put all those bars? - I am not one to eat solids on the bike, but I only participate in HIM's so I do not feel they are necessary. That might change if and when I do a IM.
I also use gels in a flask as it fits 4 and add the base salts. I felt like the idea is to carry all of your nutrition with you, which makes me ask if I should be using a fuel belt on the HIM run....thinking yes. - I used to bring a fuel belt on my HIM runs, but if the race course has gatorade as their FRD I just carry my gels with me on the run.
Finally, the " what to eat on race day" and before info was great and I will be eating a power bar, banana and two cups of applesauce with protein powder for breakfast tomorrow. I want to add turmeric to the mix as it reduces inflammation.... - I do the 2pm wake up drinking 2 x fluid drink and then at 5am 2 boiled eggs with sweet potatoe. I then carry gatorade to sip on and then i take a gel 20 min before the start. I am gluten intolerant and this seems to work for me.
What did others get out of the webinar?
Hi Brenda,
Thanks for all of the thoughts and ideas! I did get an email thanking me for attending the webinar but it did not have a link to listen to it again...I hope I get that one! I am eating my two cups of applesauce with protein powder as we speak....it's a lot of applesauce! I tried the power gels right before I discovered Vega products ( which are primarily if not all gluten free) and did like them so I might go back to them since they are a bit easier to get and more common. My friend who is fairly elite used to used Heed and always had cramping issues. I shared with her that it was basically useless and it was good to be able to show the science behind why it doesn't work. This webinar really made me consider labels even more than I was doing already. I am definitely considering trying a race fueling plan next year. I have a good system for weight loss over the winter and am able to keep it off over the season. I think I want to go 20-30 more pounds, for sure by 2014 as Greg gave me the green light for IMFL! He is going to do LP again that year! What a crazy man I married! Lol. Keep Tri-N!
The one thing I'm not convinced about yet is using the Endurox as a recovery drink vs. the smoothie that I make. Part of my contention has to do with the idea that I think real food has much more benefit to the human body vs. all this chemically derived stuff. I'm a fan of Michael Pollan and like the idea that food is created to ensure proper nutrition. I know that there are limiters to this when it comes to endurance training as I don't think I could tape that many bananas to my bike, but when transporting fuel isn't an issue then I want something real. I may do the race fuel plan if I can't figure it out once I get the webinar to review. I was thinking about a consult, just to see what they think about things, but that won't be until sometime in the winter.
Hi Keith!
You did fab at LP and I got some great pics. Still working on sorting them out but I will post and could send you yours if interested. I really like what you said about whole, natural foods for recovery. Professional triathlete and Canadian ultra champion Brendan Brazier developed an entire diet and training plan using only plant based whole foods and has thus developed a line of products including sports products called Vega. I figure if it works for an ultra endurance guy it should work for me and it does. I use Vega Pne to make a recovery shake with coconut water, banana and hemp protein. I add turmeric and cinnamon to help reduce inflammation and find this had significantly improved my recovery. I also started using Vega recovery accelerator which is a quick drink right after working out prior to the shake. One serving has 510 mg sodium and 25 g protein. Seems to def help. I feel like I am finally figuring things out too, and the webinar def helped with pre race eating and sodium intake. Feel really good after HIM RR today using techniques from the webinar. Keep Tri- N!
Oops typo it's Vega One
I've typically been a big fan of chocolate milk (with added whey protein powder) for recovery, but a fellow EN member and friend of mine has been using Endurox for quite a while and really likes it. I was a tad disappointed that he mentioned that chocolate milk is ok in a pinch, but doesn't stack up well against others on various metrics. I'm also curious what those metrics are. But overall, I have the same hesitation as you do when it comes to recovery drink - I figure milk is at least somewhat 'real'. A once in a while situation (race day) is one thing, but recovery drink that you use on an almost daily basis might be another. I dunno - guess the jury is still out
thanks
I also use Vega One for regular day bfast smoothies. I also just found Hemp Protein at Trader Joe's for a vegan alternative. I have been eating a lot of vegan foods lately as a way to lose weight. It helps and real food is so good. With that said, race day I have kept things as they have been for years, and all processed. Such a change from my regular eating habits. This is what I do:
race day breakfast about 3 hours before race. 600-700 cals. nutella & sunbutter sandwich on white bread. 20oz gatorade (not G2), banana. I usually need about 100 more cals so I usually do 1/2 powerbar or some other type of granola bar-thing. lots of water after that and enough coffee to make me go to the bathroom (#2). after that i don't drink it. sometimes i finish the cup, sometimes I don't. Once i've gone to the bathroom I know I'm good. I also go once or twice more before race starts at venue (I'm still talking #2 here) and for this/those they are soft, but not runny. Sorry to be graphic, but this tells me I am hydrated and ready to go. It's a good sign. a gel and ton of water
1/2 hour before my start (be sure you know when you are going in--in a HIM it's different than IM-not all going at same time!). You should pee a bunch of times in wetsuit before start if you're hydrated like a camel-again, a good sign. On bike I eat and drink every 15 mins. I use infinit and a concentrated form on my aero bottle. 1 swig, then 10 swigs of water to chase in my speedfil. At aid stations I take a sip from speedfil as I'm approaching, grab a bottle, refill speedfil, take another sip, spray my back, chest (not head b/c gets on my sunglasses, but some do spray their head), throw into goal. i stay consistent with that. with 15 mins to go, water only. Out on run I do gel every 30 mins, for HIM, gel every hour. Every aid station I drink 1-2 whole pixie cups of water plus 1-2 more for body. def get head wet! I do not carry fuel belt. I carry 1 in each hand (like Chrissie Wellington does) and might shove 1-2 packets in right leg of tri shorts. I count on on-course nutrition, but do like all gels, so not picky. In an IM I might take a swig of coke in last 6 miles once or twice, but i never do anything drastic. Re: salt-I use s-caps. I take 1 every hour on a normal (65 degree) day, 2 every hour if hot (like placid). I keep them in a ziploc and put that ziploc in the left side of my tri shorts. I do notice the day after the race that i feel like i have swollen eyeballs
@Keith, yes, soorry Performance Protein is what I just started using too. Amazing! Took it after HIM race rehearsal and absolutely no muscle soreness, eve today two days out! Magic!
@ Dottie, you crack me up! I love the specifics, it really does help. Interesting in the webinar they said NO nut butter the morning of but it worked for you! 120 long run this week then winding down.... Can't wait for Pumpkinman!
http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/108/Default.aspx?topic=Race+Fueling+Webinar+(Jesse+Kropelnicki)
I've let John Stark know that we have the link now.
@Dottie. Def listen to it when you can now that the link is up but what I recall is no nut butter due to high fat content being difficult to process. The idea is to empty your system put ( which sounds like you do, lol ;-) and fat takes a long time to go through the system. I used nut butter in my recovery shakes sometimes.
Great great talk, so much good info and so much that makes good sense.
Has anyone gone through the webinar and written down all the #s and guidance? I was thinking of writing up a wiki entry with the specifics from the talk, to make it easier to go back over, but if anyone has good notes and wants to share, I'll gladly take em and transcribe.
I think someone asks about this at the end. As I recall, he says if you dial it right you can use infinit, but why bother if the right fluids are on the course already. So I guess if you do a race that doesn't have a decent fluid source, you could bring your own mix. Generally you want something with a good carb to sodium ratio with a good blend of carb sources and nothing extra. Proteins and vitamins may just cause problems later on.
(Edit) I've given up on Hammer products and based on my experience at IMSG where Perform pulled me back from the brink of bonk and dehydration, I'm planning on using Perform. Right now, cause its easy to get @ home and cheap I use gatorade and mix it accordingly to get the strength i need. But I plan to order perform mix soon.
Key takeaways/thought for me:
-Impact of water on your system during IM. Very interesting. If you peel the onion back on this one just a bit and follow this guidance your calorie count per hour could easily and will most likely have to go above 250 cal/hour. If I have a hydration need of say 35 ounces of fluid an hour and that fluid is Perform, 35 ounces of Perform has roughly 306 calories in it. Perform has 70 Calories/8 ounces(according to the powder bottle: really wish I could find the actual bottle of fluid). If you were going to stick to 250 calories/hour and only use Perform, you would need 3.5 servings (8ounces per serving) which is 28.5 ounces/hour. Which I believe the Perform bottle on the course are 20oz bottles. So about 1.5 bottles a hour. Very doable, but if you take anything else on the course (Gels etc..) you are headed north of 250 calories/hour. The speaker did mention that if you start to pee earlier in the bike you can back down on your hydration a bit. So maybe a cooler day you don't need 35 ounces/hour, but a lot of days you clearly need at least in that range of 35 ounces plus or minus say 10 ounces. Sorry if my math is off but I think it's right. Had to use both hands and both feet to do the math.
-Vitamins and the impact on your gut i.e. why do I need vitamin C in my system on race day? Great question. I'm now looking at Vitamin count for all my sports products. Pretty sure 1 GU has Vitamin C at 100% daily value... When you're trying to protect your stomach from feeling queasy at hour 10 why take the risk of having put 1000% of a vitamin in your body. Makes sense to me...
-Sugar sources: more the better. Both Infinit and Perform have 3 types each.
-Pre race loading and pre race meal...Apple Sauce has never been my go to of choice but I have a new jar of apple sauce in my house now and I will start practicing with this. Loved that he had pretzels on the list as a carbo load choice. I have been munching on pretzels the last few months. Love them. Low fat, high carb, salt...
-Protein and Fats in your system and the impacts: This calls into question the Ensure choice and even a lot of other smoothie choices I have used as the early morning "easy" feeding options. I need to read the back of the Ensure bottle again.
-Race Day Caffeine. If you're going to use Perform as a primary source of calories and sodium, then you need to figure out how to get Caffeine into your system (if you want to). My Infinit mix has caffeine in it which I like. So an option for me could be some bottles of Infinite and Perform, or just have a few GU Roctane's on the bike and call it a day (vitamins be damned). P.S. I'm not quitting Coffee...
Probably need to listen again to catch it all.
My other last thought was I think there is a Nutrition REVOLUTION going on in the haus....just kidding, but this definitely has expanded my understanding of race day body needs and impacts of all types of nutrition that we consider taking.
Next weekend will be Infinit, Perform, and EFS liquid shot.
That infinate has some of the worst sugars added to their formula!
all,
Infinit Sugars: Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Sucrose
Ironmand Perform Sugars:C2Max blend of Maltodextrin, Fructose, Dextrose
so in my mind the only difference between Infinit and Perform at the Sugar source level is Fructose and Sucrose. What that means or the impacts of that I have no idea. All I know is the webinar said mulitple sources of sugars was a good thing...
I also recount the Infinit guy at IMLP 2011 4 keys talk saying he thought Ironman Perform was a good product.
Does anyone know why Ironman Perform as they hand it out at races is not available to buy? It would be nice to train with what you are actually going to use. That being said, I am doing an HIM where I believe it is Heed (no way) or Gatorade (ok) so either way I'll be wearing a fuel belt or carrying a concentrated hand held on the run. I still go back to no matter how you do it, get 150-300 cals per hour depending on race and body comp, and 600 (seems low) -1800 mg per sodium per hour depending on body comp, sweat rate and weather conditions. I like that simplicity. And even though I am a BOPer with a 7 hour HIM I am going to bring what I need on the course with me. I cannot recommend Base Electrolyte Salts enough as it is so easy to add the tiny amount to anything- drink or gel- and it adds 290 mg sodium,442 mg Chloride, 3 mg calcium, 12 mg magnesium and 2.6 mg potassium. I use Vega gels in a flask with this added for food and then am switching to Power Gels on the run for a change of texture and taste. Add in Power bars and Stingers on the bike and I am gtg for food and added sodium. Then my bottles can carry Nuun drink with the Base also added.
I am not sure who said it, but a revolution in the making made me crack up! Down with Water! LOL! All I can say is I have been following Jesse's recommendations and it appears to be working. :-)
Last year I found Perform at a local mom and pop running store. This year its gone. I can't seem to find Perfrom in a bottle anywhere. I think it may have been discontinued. I have an email into Powerbar asking the questions about why I can't get some actual drink versus my one and only choice of lemon line powder. I suspect that even properly mixed the flavor and strength just won't be the same as what gets handed to me on the course.
There is a production line somewhere spitting out bottles of Perform, but it seems they are not distributing it around. I understand why the average Joe wouldn't want to buy perform at a local retailer when its sitting next to a Gatorade or Powerade but it makes no sense to me why I can't directly order it from Powerbar. I would think there are enough Athlete's who would place orders to warrant a small increase in production so they could take some orders. They could even have us pre order the stuff.
I'm not that stressed about it, but its just a little weird as a customer who has money to spend, wants to buy something, I know it exists, but some how its not available...And I'm not talking about a fancy piece of art work...this is just a crappy tasting sports drink....