I contacted the company a month or so ago, and they said that they are no longer making the bottles for sale to the public. They are continuing to provide it at Ironman races. I wonder how long that will last? Why promote a product of yours at a race, when you are no longer selling it to the general public? The people at the Powerbar booth at IMLP told me it is a year-to-year contract, and they did not know if it would continue into the future.
When I got my race nutrition plan from Core Diet, they provided information on how to modify the plan so that I can use the Gatorade Pro provided at Rev3 races (basically I take in a few extra Cliff Blocks on the ride). The key is to make sure the grams of carbs and amount of sodium you take in add up to what they recommend. There is more than one way to get there - some more convenient than others.
I've got a lot to say about the last 10 or so posts, but I have yet to actually watch the video so I will refrain from commenting.
I can confirm that PowerBar no longer manufactures RDT (ready-to-drink) Perform for over-the-counter retail sales.. If you see a retailer with it it's leftover product from 2010, possibly 2011.
I can also confirm that Mike from Infinit did say that Perform was a nutritionally sound product, he did say it has too much of a few things including beta carotine (which is what causes the semi-perminent discoloration of water bottles that have had Perform mix in them for a few hours).
I'll chime in more after I've had a chance to watch.
@ Nate re your 250 cals per hour (and the EN suggestion), the guy said on the bike you should have 1 gram of carbohydrate for each 5/8 (ie 62.5%) of your weight in pounds. I don't know how big you are but I am a small peep at around 140 lbs (racing weight) and I would take 87 gms per hour of carbohydrate, wich is 348 cals. Obviously you need to test but that's what I am going to do now. For the run, it was 2/3 of the bike amount.
Peter, good data point on the carbs/body weight, that one slipped past me...
Good news is that Powerbar responded to my email within a few hours. Bad News is they confirmed what Jim said. I would imagine Power Bar Perform has a limited life span as the Ironman drink for race day...Just a guess. doesn't seem like Powerbar is really supporting the product.
Dear Nate:
Thank you for contacting PowerBar®. PowerBar® has been the leader in sports nutrition since 1986 and we want to continue to provide you with the energy as well as the nutritional information to be great, no matter what the challenge.
The PowerBar® Ironman Perform Sports Drink was discontinued. The powder is the only formula we currently offer. To find a store close to you that carries your favorite PowerBar® and PowerBar® Pria products, use the store locator tool on the PowerBar® website: www.PowerBar.com/WhereToBuy
On the grams of carbohydrate per pound - was that for total body weight or lean body weight? I know when I filled out the questionnaire for Core Diet I provided percent body fat, and she said lean body weight is what is used in their calculations. And that if I managed to lose some body fat, the fueling plan would not really change because of that. In the seminar, I don't remember if he used total or lean body weight for the grams of carb per pound recommendation he gave there. Might be good to double check that.
1) Ironman Perform must have BOMBED in the retail market! I hope WTC has to grovel their way back to Gatorade and maybe there will be some pre race swims again.
2) Core Diet - doesn't like Endurolytes or Heed (better known as Heave which is what it makes me want to do!). It was very satisfying to view this part of the webinar. I once had a very good coach, but he was sponsored by Hammer and I had independently come to the conclusion that their stuff was crap. In fact, Endurolytes are so worthless, that I question the very science behind them, as well as the credibility of Hammer or any of their nutritional claims.
Anybody recommending the any of the core diet stuff? If so , what program is the one to go with. Is it all boiler plate stuff, everyone gets the same recomendations, except dosing is different based on weight and sweat rate! Anybody had any success!
Did not know Sodium intake was such a big factor? All the doctors, say get off of sodium or heart rate/blood pressure is all I hear about!
@Steve - I did for a fueling plan, and made several comments in this thread: http://members.endurancenation.us/Training/TrainingForums/tabid/101/aft/9042/afnp/117294/Default.aspx Between the webinar and the comments in the forums, we are getting close to reverse engineering what you get in the fueling plans, but I still feel it is a good value, especially with the EN discount. Given the plan I got, and what I've seen here and on the webinar, I would still pay for the fueling plan if I were to do it again. Less trial and error, and they laid it all out for me.
@ Stephen - Lynne is correct! I followed the typical medical advice for low sodium for my first 70.3 (Orlando) 5 years ago ... straight into the medical tent needing 2 IVs to keep my blood pressure from falling further. Doctors who say otherwise are quacks.
I would anticipate Ironman going to Gu Brew when the deal is up for Perform since they already switche to GU for Gels. But that would make too much sense to just deal with one supplier. At IMMT they are using Bonk Breaker for Bars, Honey Stinger for gels and waffles, and Perform for sportsdrink now that just doesnt make anysense to me to deal with 3 different companies!
I dont particularly care for the Gu Brew but if I cant get Perform anymore will go back to Gatorade Endurance.
Lynne Thanks.... I'm all stocked up for this season on Perform ... It just appears that in the future you will most likely not be able to buy it anymore nor will they be using it at the races.... The Gatorade Endurance and Gu Brew really are pretty close anyway its just a matter of getting used to them.
@Paul - By and large I think Hammer products are good quality for what they are. They are built on a particular philosophy (tending toward the "natural/organic" and minimalist nutrition. For whatever reason, they also believe in separating salt from calories - not such a good idea for selling an all in one product for ease of use. There are, however, a few blind spots: (1) Their salt tabs (as pointed out) have a lot less salt per tab than they should; (2) I don't believe any of the buffering agents works, and they sell one; (3) They need to solve the problem of their Perpetuem fermenting. But honestly for long runs or marathons or whatever, I see nothing wrong with their gels. I even got used to Heed for swim workouts because I got a free container of it. :-)
To all - the reason not to drink water exclusively is to avoid a condition called hyponatremia. (Hypo = under; Natrium = archaic name for Sodium, whose chemical abbreviation is Na) If you drink nothing but water and lose your salt, your body's ability to keep the correct ionic concentration eventually fails as you "dilute yourself". This is mainly a hazard in high sweat environs or endurance sports, but it can happen in normal life too. My mom did it to herself when she got sick (living alone) and decided that it was ok not to eat for most of a week. She ended up hospitalized for that more than for what she was sick with.
This is in contrast to the webinar's advice, which is really more about not drinking water (instead of sports drink) because they think people need even more salt (and calories) than has been recommended in the past.
Doesn't this run somewhat contrary to Tim Noakes and the theory that you should not overhydrate and that the body should not need extra electrolites (it just sweats them out?)
Anyone Else having a problem getting the webinar to start playing? I watched it last week and took some notes, that I need to re-take. once the page http://www.screencast.com/t/eAiPfNuIabyb comes up I wait and wait but it does not start.
If you are trying to abide by the calorie + sodium guidance in the webinar, what do you do if you still lose more than 2% body weight during a workout? Does that mean you need more calories? sodium? fluids? or some combination?
John- I think they mentioned that somewhere in the webinar. Not exactly sure on the details, but I think they cautioned against trying to lose more than 1lb per week. I have also heard (can't remember if it was in the webinar or elsewhere) that you shouldn't try to cut calories directly before, during or right after a workout. You risk compromising the workout and recovery by underfueling. If you need to cut calories, cut at other times during the day. Simply put "don't diet on the bike". (Can't remember where I heard that either, but good advice!)
If you use a tracking program like Loseit.com for tracking calories in and out, that helps too.
@ David and William- based on my own results as a data point of 1, I have to put Tim Noakes in the quack column. Maybe he can get a job at Hammer Nutrition. Truly, if you are a heavy sweater, I think the low salt guidance borders on medical malpractice and is downright dangerous. I've had much greater success after I learned to tune out the so-called science and listened to those with experience who know what works in real life racing. See especially Macca's chapter on how Coke saved him at Kona completely contrary to all the "expert" sports medicine advice he had solicited before.
John- I think they mentioned that somewhere in the webinar. Not exactly sure on the details, but I think they cautioned against trying to lose more than 1lb per week. I have also heard (can't remember if it was in the webinar or elsewhere) that you shouldn't try to cut calories directly before, during or right after a workout. You risk compromising the workout and recovery by underfueling. If you need to cut calories, cut at other times during the day. Simply put "don't diet on the bike". (Can't remember where I heard that either, but good advice!)
If you use a tracking program like Loseit.com for tracking calories in and out, that helps too.
Yep, 1lb per week. Whenever I've started tracking calories in LoseIt! on a Monday using 2lb per week, I usually relearn by about Wedesday or Thursday morning that 1lb is better
If you are trying to abide by the calorie + sodium guidance in the webinar, what do you do if you still lose more than 2% body weight during a workout? Does that mean you need more calories? sodium? fluids? or some combination?
John, I think you're asking about the recommendation to not lose more than 2% of your body weight through dehydration in a given workout. Short answer is sweat test tells you how much to drink. Drink only sports drink means sweat test => calories, too. Take them in.
Allen Lim once told me that a big part of the reason why you need carb and salt in your sports drink is to aid in the transport of water from the gut to the cells (it accelerates it).
Finally watched the webinar and so many quesstions. What's wrong with powbar smoothie bars? Just asking. 180mg NA otherwise look the same. What happened to those in the haus talking about fasted workouts for fat burning training? Are members fueling this style for all workouts? This plan seems very interesting for racing an IM until WTC stops using Perform on the course.
I had to tweak the applesauce protocol from the webinar because it was a busy week and I couldn't get out to the store, but I ate 3 cups of apple sauce, a cup of Greek yogurt, a bottle of sports drink and 2 pop tarts at 3:30am before my 7:45 AM HIM start. This was the first time I have tried this (normally I drink Ensure), and I felt very good. I also drank sports drink with gels and had no issues with gastric distress on the bike. On the run, they only had Heed on the course, so I drank it and took a couple of Powerbar gels as well as a salt stick or two. No issues at all with digestion. Overall, the nutrition webinar has given me a starting point for race day nutrition. I sometimes have to adapt, but I have a plan.
What would the reccomendation be for a stand alone marathon? I assume the same breakfast. What about the number of gels with the assumed gatorade from on the course? Also, the gel 15 min prior to a tri is with sports drink as well?
@ Robert, For a marathon breakfast is the applesauce about 3.5 cups with a banana then your sport drink with 1 scoop of Whey protein. 15 min prior to the race 1 caffeinated gel with water. During the race 1 gel every 30 min with caffeine up to 2 hours then switch to a Cliff shot block with caffeine every 2 miles.
Comments
When I got my race nutrition plan from Core Diet, they provided information on how to modify the plan so that I can use the Gatorade Pro provided at Rev3 races (basically I take in a few extra Cliff Blocks on the ride). The key is to make sure the grams of carbs and amount of sodium you take in add up to what they recommend. There is more than one way to get there - some more convenient than others.
I can confirm that PowerBar no longer manufactures RDT (ready-to-drink) Perform for over-the-counter retail sales.. If you see a retailer with it it's leftover product from 2010, possibly 2011.
I can also confirm that Mike from Infinit did say that Perform was a nutritionally sound product, he did say it has too much of a few things including beta carotine (which is what causes the semi-perminent discoloration of water bottles that have had Perform mix in them for a few hours).
I'll chime in more after I've had a chance to watch.
I don't know how big you are but I am a small peep at around 140 lbs (racing weight) and I would take 87 gms per hour of carbohydrate, wich is 348 cals.
Obviously you need to test but that's what I am going to do now.
For the run, it was 2/3 of the bike amount.
Good news is that Powerbar responded to my email within a few hours. Bad News is they confirmed what Jim said. I would imagine Power Bar Perform has a limited life span as the Ironman drink for race day...Just a guess. doesn't seem like Powerbar is really supporting the product.
Dear Nate:
Thank you for contacting PowerBar®. PowerBar® has been the leader in sports nutrition since 1986 and we want to continue to provide you with the energy as well as the nutritional information to be great, no matter what the challenge.
The PowerBar® Ironman Perform Sports Drink was discontinued. The powder is the only formula we currently offer. To find a store close to you that carries your favorite PowerBar® and PowerBar® Pria products, use the store locator tool on the PowerBar® website: www.PowerBar.com/WhereToBuy
Hmm - I've learned a couple things here:
1) Ironman Perform must have BOMBED in the retail market! I hope WTC has to grovel their way back to Gatorade and maybe there will be some pre race swims again.
2) Core Diet - doesn't like Endurolytes or Heed (better known as Heave which is what it makes me want to do!). It was very satisfying to view this part of the webinar. I once had a very good coach, but he was sponsored by Hammer and I had independently come to the conclusion that their stuff was crap. In fact, Endurolytes are so worthless, that I question the very science behind them, as well as the credibility of Hammer or any of their nutritional claims.
Did not know Sodium intake was such a big factor? All the doctors, say get off of sodium or heart rate/blood pressure is all I hear about!
Between the webinar and the comments in the forums, we are getting close to reverse engineering what you get in the fueling plans, but I still feel it is a good value, especially with the EN discount. Given the plan I got, and what I've seen here and on the webinar, I would still pay for the fueling plan if I were to do it again. Less trial and error, and they laid it all out for me.
I got $45 off the price, so $150 (See http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/TeamDiscounts/tabid/240/Default.aspx). I've also seen 10% as being the EN discount (http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/108/Default.aspx?topic=Core+Diet+Add+On+Program). Not sure which is currently correct.
I dont particularly care for the Gu Brew but if I cant get Perform anymore will go back to Gatorade Endurance.
To all - the reason not to drink water exclusively is to avoid a condition called hyponatremia. (Hypo = under; Natrium = archaic name for Sodium, whose chemical abbreviation is Na) If you drink nothing but water and lose your salt, your body's ability to keep the correct ionic concentration eventually fails as you "dilute yourself". This is mainly a hazard in high sweat environs or endurance sports, but it can happen in normal life too. My mom did it to herself when she got sick (living alone) and decided that it was ok not to eat for most of a week. She ended up hospitalized for that more than for what she was sick with.
This is in contrast to the webinar's advice, which is really more about not drinking water (instead of sports drink) because they think people need even more salt (and calories) than has been recommended in the past.
I watched it last week and took some notes, that I need to re-take.
once the page http://www.screencast.com/t/eAiPfNuIabyb comes up I wait and wait but it does not start.
Thanks
If you use a tracking program like Loseit.com for tracking calories in and out, that helps too.
Yep, 1lb per week. Whenever I've started tracking calories in LoseIt! on a Monday using 2lb per week, I usually relearn by about Wedesday or Thursday morning that 1lb is better
John, I think you're asking about the recommendation to not lose more than 2% of your body weight through dehydration in a given workout. Short answer is sweat test tells you how much to drink. Drink only sports drink means sweat test => calories, too. Take them in.
Allen Lim once told me that a big part of the reason why you need carb and salt in your sports drink is to aid in the transport of water from the gut to the cells (it accelerates it).
Mike
This plan seems very interesting for racing an IM until WTC stops using Perform on the course.
Yes was wondering if fasting workouts still have value.
Yes use the Perform+ for all the long workouts. Enjoying workouts and racing more because I feel better.
Yes a problem if Perform gets yanked from races. Can not tolerate Gatorade Endurance.
What would the reccomendation be for a stand alone marathon? I assume the same breakfast. What about the number of gels with the assumed gatorade from on the course? Also, the gel 15 min prior to a tri is with sports drink as well?