I’d love to figure out a way to manage some Friday freight train or west coast meet ups on Zwift here and there. It’s nice to ride with the team. But I also love the return to structure. Thoughts? (Sorry to answer your question with a question!)
The reason I am pretty happy for a plan or structure of any sort is that I feel like I’ve been free flowing it until relatively recently because of the October PRP hip/hammie recovery.
There’s been a lot of volume on the weekends because I can’t drive to where I want to ride due to COVID and parking lots closed. We can still ride/hike in the parks but just not drive there. So I leave from my house and that tacks on 20 miles, minimum. I’m having lots of fun exploring the gravel because everyone is on the road.
And, the short intense work of the bike focus plan is really helping on the weekend rides. Some short sections have grades at 23%. #pokeintheeye
Let me know what you think on working in the FFT rides when you get a sec. Thank you!!!
@Julia Herrmann - first, no worries! I think it's a function of how your week has gone from Monday to Thursday. If you are ending the day on Friday feeling fresh and energized for the remaining three days then I say we go for the Friday Freight Train.
Worst case scenario you are able to hit the higher numbers on the weekend, having to just opt for Endurance in tempo. It will be a nice change of pace, as there's plenty of room for you to grow as well. A Friday and Saturday ride with me and keeping Sunday a little bit lighter with an eye towards recovering for the next week (or a monday off for example).
FFT is only an hour long session, so the impact to your weekend won't be that high. But it is a fun get together. Find @Sid Wavrin and just dial in your pace!
Don't forget, you can reverse engineer new ways to ride using Strava. If you go on Strava, and find some local segments using the map/segment finder, you can click on the time element in the segment leaderboard to see what the athlete road. You can then see if that lines up with a new route for you or a new way for you to get where you wanna go. If you have Strava premium you can even download the GPX file to your computer and Ride it (or put in RideWithGPS to edit).
Welllll, @Coach Patrick, while I worked long and hard to earn an advanced degree in neurobiology, I still fail at basic arithmetic. I was off by three weeks in my race planning calculations. With a (hopeful) race on September 19th, the actual start of the 12 weeks for the ultra mtb plan doesn't start until june 28.
This week I was going to continue with my active non structured recovery from Bike Focus plan. Do you have guidelines for the next three weeks so that I don't a) lose the fitness i built, or b) run myself into the ground because i am till a type A?
@Julia Herrmann - thanks for the laugh. I do it all the time, Which means I can't complain when others do! 🤣
Above you can see our original plan from April 13. In this case we were having to do four weeks of bike focus before the last 10 weeks of the ultra bike plan. I think the appropriate modifications to have you do the last two weeks of the bike focus plan and then the last 11 weeks of the ultra distance plan. The additional two weeks of my focus plus the additional one week of ultra distance will fill that three week gap.
Now, if somehow I've gotten this wrong please let me know.
Hi @Coach Patrick! Thank you so much for letting me know. I did end up completing the bike focus plan (once I learned that the Rift in Iceland was cancelled), with week 6 and FTP test done last week.
I found a date calculator online and calculated that it is 15 weeks and three days until the race on September 19th (cuz forget arithmetic, I can't even count 🙄). Should I go ahead and repeat last two (three?) weeks of bike focus (starting next week) to maintain all the work I have done and then load up the (full) 12 week ultra distance? It's really no problem for me, and it could be fun to try bike focus with a shiny new FTP. (even if by only a few watts)
I am flexy. Sorry for all these Qs - thank you so much for your patience!
@Julia Herrmann Yes that's PRECISELY the plan I am thinking of! A nice shiny FTP to go with all those bikes I am drooling over! 🤣 Please keep me posted!
Have a question as I get ready to transition to the ultra bike plan... I noticed there is a whole heck of a lot of riding (understandably) and no running. I do want to get good on the bike, but I don't want to completely lose my running fitness by dropping to zero.
Do you have suggestions on how I could incorporate or switch out for a run or two...? thank you thank you!!
@Julia Herrmann - hey there, sorry took me so long to get back to you. I took a look at your training plan, and I see what you mean. To be fair, I thought you loved bikes. I mean, loved bikes. But I understand you don't want to lose your run.
I have overlaid some runs for the next 3 1/2 weeks, and I'll be curious to see how you feel with the running that's prescribed. Based on your feedback we can continue to make adjustments for the following blocks of your plan. Essentially we are keeping some mid week one frequency and using the "down" weekends from cycling to add an extra long-ish run.
We have to be careful though as you might really miss that day off (alternative solution -- FRIDAYS are a great day to take off! 🎉).
1) My gravel race in Mammoth in September has been canceled. of course bummed but not surprised. Ever the eternal optimists, or maybe just in denial of the situation, we have signed up for a local gravel ride October 10th - 90 miles, 4500 ft climbing. So I have just shifted my training plan back a few weeks for that event. This past week was an all run week because I ventured back out into the world for work, so I was in SoCal all week. So there was a smidge of overdone recovery (no rides mon-fri, but I did run all 4 days) given that I just added 3 weeks more training on.
2) I saw the run durability additions and have been incorporating them, but really only 20-30 minute runs so far. It's really easy to do a quick run after my zwift rides during the week. I actually kind of like it too. But. Although I didn't feel it immediately or obviously, I feel like I do accumulate a significant amount of fatigue that shows up on the weekend rides when I want to go longer. This is including weeks in which I took the Friday off too. And because I am adding an extra 20-30 minutes of running it is getting harder to also fit in the time for post workout stretching and flexibility work.
3) August 8-17 Thad and I are driving out to Taos NM to see our parents, and there are a ton of trails and dirt rides out there to explore. And it's all at 7000-10000 ft above sea level to boot (and at home I am exactly at sea level). So maybe some epic camp-y type stuff I can think about doing...
I am a bit unsure how to adjust from here. On one hand I'm not very confident that the october event will actually run, but on the other if it does I want to be prepared because 90 miles would still kill me. I haven't been doing many 60-70 mile rides like I used to during the first heat of the pandemic.
What are your thoughts and recommendations? Thank you!!
Giving this a nudge since I may have missed last week's round.
Looking at my comments above, I can say I am definitely in a slump. I feel like I peaked somewhere in the midst of the bike focus plan from earlier this year, and I am sliding down the other side. I don't feel like I have much spunk or strength when it comes to my outdoor rides. 😕
@Julia Herrmann - hey, thanks for checking in! I was on vacation last week so a little less contact than usual. My apologies for missing your post. I am picking up what you're putting down. Specifically that by the time you get to the weekend you're just feeling it.
I am Seeing this fairly frequently right now. I think a large part of it is due to the fact that we don't have any races, and intentional time off, like we would normally have. There's a psychological "load" that we are all still carrying as we continue to train.
Moving to an Ultra plan usually means a loss of "punch" as we build the volume...especially on the weekends (Monday to Friday is a loooong time). So I think we need to figure out the best way for you to move forward -- do we want to structure the week so you are sharp and punchy on Sat, then long on Sun...and recovery/work as able M-F?
Or can you be punch M-F and steady on the weekends?
Side note, you doubled your run volume from 7/13 to 7/20...my guess is that didn't help with Le Run Legs.
I am so so sorry - I didn't realize you were on vacay. I saw that this morning just before I went out to run. Welcome back!! Hope you had a really nice time away. Well deserved - and you could probably use some more time, i bet.
Thank you so much for this context - it helps me feel less droopy about what I have been feeling recently. This is both in terms of the load in ultra and this psychological battle we are all facing.
I think if we can still prepare me well for this supposed ride in October, I would like to be sharp and long on the weekends and go as able M-F. Work is only going to get more intense as the year goes on, and if I can't let that energy out on the weekends by being punchy and sharp I think I will get really bummed out.
@Julia Herrmann - hey, no worries! I really didn't tell anybody and to be honest it snuck up on me too. I will say that it was amazing to just chill out for a little bit. I haven't used a laptop after 8 PM for that many days in a row since I don't know when. 🤣
I think the weekend focus is the key; weekdays are steady.
To make that possible, I recommend that you keep Wednesday and Friday rides super easy. These are just meant to be touring rides. If you were a music listener, I would have you turn off the rock music and put on some kind of e-book. So you'd have to slow down to hear it. These are the days for photos and exploring...or even errands. Rather than pushing a number, have a CAP. Nothing more than Zone 2 evah on Wed Fri.
That should give you room to push Tue/Thu. If possible, I vote you add the short post ride runs to Tue/Thu/Sat. Three runs a week...just cruising. Then Wed/Fri are for recovery.
Let's try that approach for two weeks and see how it goes. The meantime, it looks as though you have doubled up on the training plan between now and the ride. Are you comfortable deleting those duplicate sessions or do you need help?
ok cool. I believe I understand. So Tue/Thu will be the interval type rides from the plan - the past few weeks its been the 30/30s and the threshold intervals. Then wed/fri is no higher than zone two. I would be happy to add runs tue/thu... and maybe friday or monday...? Since I ride outside on saturday and sunday, and sometimes drive to where I start, there is so much admin on getting a run in after a long ride like that I know I won't really end up doing it.
We are off to Taos NM for 10 days, so adherence to the plan maaaay be a little less stringent on this exact week. But we are bringing our gravel bikes so we can still ride so at the very least we will get some good rides in at altitude. We will see how it goes, and I can attempt some version of the above during the week.
I just saw that there are doubles of the workout in final surge... I think I fixed it. #crossedfingers
I check back in in two - (maybe three weeks if next week is a bust) to report how it goes. Thank you thank you!
@Julia Herrmann sounds great! runs during the week (short) are good...and don't do it on the weekends. Weekends are for F-U-N so do that instead! I'd rather you ride longer and then recover with fun food instead of sweating a run.
As for NM, so jelly! Please post some pictures to our public channels! 👍
Comments
@Coach Patrick that all sounds great!
I’d love to figure out a way to manage some Friday freight train or west coast meet ups on Zwift here and there. It’s nice to ride with the team. But I also love the return to structure. Thoughts? (Sorry to answer your question with a question!)
The reason I am pretty happy for a plan or structure of any sort is that I feel like I’ve been free flowing it until relatively recently because of the October PRP hip/hammie recovery.
There’s been a lot of volume on the weekends because I can’t drive to where I want to ride due to COVID and parking lots closed. We can still ride/hike in the parks but just not drive there. So I leave from my house and that tacks on 20 miles, minimum. I’m having lots of fun exploring the gravel because everyone is on the road.
And, the short intense work of the bike focus plan is really helping on the weekend rides. Some short sections have grades at 23%. #pokeintheeye
Let me know what you think on working in the FFT rides when you get a sec. Thank you!!!
@Julia Herrmann - first, no worries! I think it's a function of how your week has gone from Monday to Thursday. If you are ending the day on Friday feeling fresh and energized for the remaining three days then I say we go for the Friday Freight Train.
Worst case scenario you are able to hit the higher numbers on the weekend, having to just opt for Endurance in tempo. It will be a nice change of pace, as there's plenty of room for you to grow as well. A Friday and Saturday ride with me and keeping Sunday a little bit lighter with an eye towards recovering for the next week (or a monday off for example).
FFT is only an hour long session, so the impact to your weekend won't be that high. But it is a fun get together. Find @Sid Wavrin and just dial in your pace!
Don't forget, you can reverse engineer new ways to ride using Strava. If you go on Strava, and find some local segments using the map/segment finder, you can click on the time element in the segment leaderboard to see what the athlete road. You can then see if that lines up with a new route for you or a new way for you to get where you wanna go. If you have Strava premium you can even download the GPX file to your computer and Ride it (or put in RideWithGPS to edit).
Adventure On!
~ Coach P
Sounds great!! Thank you so much for all of the above. :D
😎
Welllll, @Coach Patrick, while I worked long and hard to earn an advanced degree in neurobiology, I still fail at basic arithmetic. I was off by three weeks in my race planning calculations. With a (hopeful) race on September 19th, the actual start of the 12 weeks for the ultra mtb plan doesn't start until june 28.
This week I was going to continue with my active non structured recovery from Bike Focus plan. Do you have guidelines for the next three weeks so that I don't a) lose the fitness i built, or b) run myself into the ground because i am till a type A?
thank you thank you thank you!!
@Julia Herrmann - thanks for the laugh. I do it all the time, Which means I can't complain when others do! 🤣
Above you can see our original plan from April 13. In this case we were having to do four weeks of bike focus before the last 10 weeks of the ultra bike plan. I think the appropriate modifications to have you do the last two weeks of the bike focus plan and then the last 11 weeks of the ultra distance plan. The additional two weeks of my focus plus the additional one week of ultra distance will fill that three week gap.
Now, if somehow I've gotten this wrong please let me know.
Hi @Coach Patrick! Thank you so much for letting me know. I did end up completing the bike focus plan (once I learned that the Rift in Iceland was cancelled), with week 6 and FTP test done last week.
I found a date calculator online and calculated that it is 15 weeks and three days until the race on September 19th (cuz forget arithmetic, I can't even count 🙄). Should I go ahead and repeat last two (three?) weeks of bike focus (starting next week) to maintain all the work I have done and then load up the (full) 12 week ultra distance? It's really no problem for me, and it could be fun to try bike focus with a shiny new FTP. (even if by only a few watts)
I am flexy. Sorry for all these Qs - thank you so much for your patience!
@Julia Herrmann Yes that's PRECISELY the plan I am thinking of! A nice shiny FTP to go with all those bikes I am drooling over! 🤣 Please keep me posted!
~ Coach P
Hi @Coach Patrick! *raises hand*
Have a question as I get ready to transition to the ultra bike plan... I noticed there is a whole heck of a lot of riding (understandably) and no running. I do want to get good on the bike, but I don't want to completely lose my running fitness by dropping to zero.
Do you have suggestions on how I could incorporate or switch out for a run or two...? thank you thank you!!
@Julia Herrmann - hey there, sorry took me so long to get back to you. I took a look at your training plan, and I see what you mean. To be fair, I thought you loved bikes. I mean, loved bikes. But I understand you don't want to lose your run.
I have overlaid some runs for the next 3 1/2 weeks, and I'll be curious to see how you feel with the running that's prescribed. Based on your feedback we can continue to make adjustments for the following blocks of your plan. Essentially we are keeping some mid week one frequency and using the "down" weekends from cycling to add an extra long-ish run.
We have to be careful though as you might really miss that day off (alternative solution -- FRIDAYS are a great day to take off! 🎉).
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick
updates!
Hi @Coach Patrick!
1) My gravel race in Mammoth in September has been canceled. of course bummed but not surprised. Ever the eternal optimists, or maybe just in denial of the situation, we have signed up for a local gravel ride October 10th - 90 miles, 4500 ft climbing. So I have just shifted my training plan back a few weeks for that event. This past week was an all run week because I ventured back out into the world for work, so I was in SoCal all week. So there was a smidge of overdone recovery (no rides mon-fri, but I did run all 4 days) given that I just added 3 weeks more training on.
2) I saw the run durability additions and have been incorporating them, but really only 20-30 minute runs so far. It's really easy to do a quick run after my zwift rides during the week. I actually kind of like it too. But. Although I didn't feel it immediately or obviously, I feel like I do accumulate a significant amount of fatigue that shows up on the weekend rides when I want to go longer. This is including weeks in which I took the Friday off too. And because I am adding an extra 20-30 minutes of running it is getting harder to also fit in the time for post workout stretching and flexibility work.
3) August 8-17 Thad and I are driving out to Taos NM to see our parents, and there are a ton of trails and dirt rides out there to explore. And it's all at 7000-10000 ft above sea level to boot (and at home I am exactly at sea level). So maybe some epic camp-y type stuff I can think about doing...
I am a bit unsure how to adjust from here. On one hand I'm not very confident that the october event will actually run, but on the other if it does I want to be prepared because 90 miles would still kill me. I haven't been doing many 60-70 mile rides like I used to during the first heat of the pandemic.
What are your thoughts and recommendations? Thank you!!
Hi @Coach Patrick ,
Giving this a nudge since I may have missed last week's round.
Looking at my comments above, I can say I am definitely in a slump. I feel like I peaked somewhere in the midst of the bike focus plan from earlier this year, and I am sliding down the other side. I don't feel like I have much spunk or strength when it comes to my outdoor rides. 😕
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
@Julia Herrmann - hey, thanks for checking in! I was on vacation last week so a little less contact than usual. My apologies for missing your post. I am picking up what you're putting down. Specifically that by the time you get to the weekend you're just feeling it.
I am Seeing this fairly frequently right now. I think a large part of it is due to the fact that we don't have any races, and intentional time off, like we would normally have. There's a psychological "load" that we are all still carrying as we continue to train.
Moving to an Ultra plan usually means a loss of "punch" as we build the volume...especially on the weekends (Monday to Friday is a loooong time). So I think we need to figure out the best way for you to move forward -- do we want to structure the week so you are sharp and punchy on Sat, then long on Sun...and recovery/work as able M-F?
Or can you be punch M-F and steady on the weekends?
Side note, you doubled your run volume from 7/13 to 7/20...my guess is that didn't help with Le Run Legs.
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick
hi hi @Coach Patrick ,
I am so so sorry - I didn't realize you were on vacay. I saw that this morning just before I went out to run. Welcome back!! Hope you had a really nice time away. Well deserved - and you could probably use some more time, i bet.
Thank you so much for this context - it helps me feel less droopy about what I have been feeling recently. This is both in terms of the load in ultra and this psychological battle we are all facing.
I think if we can still prepare me well for this supposed ride in October, I would like to be sharp and long on the weekends and go as able M-F. Work is only going to get more intense as the year goes on, and if I can't let that energy out on the weekends by being punchy and sharp I think I will get really bummed out.
Thank you thank you!!
@Julia Herrmann - hey, no worries! I really didn't tell anybody and to be honest it snuck up on me too. I will say that it was amazing to just chill out for a little bit. I haven't used a laptop after 8 PM for that many days in a row since I don't know when. 🤣
I think the weekend focus is the key; weekdays are steady.
To make that possible, I recommend that you keep Wednesday and Friday rides super easy. These are just meant to be touring rides. If you were a music listener, I would have you turn off the rock music and put on some kind of e-book. So you'd have to slow down to hear it. These are the days for photos and exploring...or even errands. Rather than pushing a number, have a CAP. Nothing more than Zone 2 evah on Wed Fri.
That should give you room to push Tue/Thu. If possible, I vote you add the short post ride runs to Tue/Thu/Sat. Three runs a week...just cruising. Then Wed/Fri are for recovery.
Let's try that approach for two weeks and see how it goes. The meantime, it looks as though you have doubled up on the training plan between now and the ride. Are you comfortable deleting those duplicate sessions or do you need help?
~ Coach P
ok cool. I believe I understand. So Tue/Thu will be the interval type rides from the plan - the past few weeks its been the 30/30s and the threshold intervals. Then wed/fri is no higher than zone two. I would be happy to add runs tue/thu... and maybe friday or monday...? Since I ride outside on saturday and sunday, and sometimes drive to where I start, there is so much admin on getting a run in after a long ride like that I know I won't really end up doing it.
We are off to Taos NM for 10 days, so adherence to the plan maaaay be a little less stringent on this exact week. But we are bringing our gravel bikes so we can still ride so at the very least we will get some good rides in at altitude. We will see how it goes, and I can attempt some version of the above during the week.
I just saw that there are doubles of the workout in final surge... I think I fixed it. #crossedfingers
I check back in in two - (maybe three weeks if next week is a bust) to report how it goes. Thank you thank you!
@Julia Herrmann sounds great! runs during the week (short) are good...and don't do it on the weekends. Weekends are for F-U-N so do that instead! I'd rather you ride longer and then recover with fun food instead of sweating a run.
As for NM, so jelly! Please post some pictures to our public channels! 👍
~ Patrick