Learned a bunch tonight. This was the fourth day day in a row and just bombed. Onset of blood lactic was early and often. Felt good to suffer but couldn't hit the watts tonight. Kinda felt flat at lunch running but wanted to give today and shot. Glad I did.
Next time I have to juggle the week, three days in a row is a good stopping point before a rest day.
Rest day tomorrow and the Santa 5K on Saturday. Looking forward to Sat and Sun rebound!
Enjoy the rest tomorrow!
Hayes, that is a great way to look at it. I still have not learned my lesson about what is too much for me... usually I have to bump my head on the brick wall a few times before I realize to back off.
First, I'm tickled pink to be part of this group. You all inspire and motivate me!
Second, I've noticed a few "my legs are dead/jello/filled with lead" posts this week. I'm feeling it too. So what's everyone's TSB (from the PMC chart) for this week?
last week I was sitting in a -38 bike + run hole and boy, was I feeling it! this week, only about a -20 as I start to ease up in the stretch to Dallas.
But...that being said. the big part of that negative was the run for me due to the weekend long run. due to a missed holiday ride, I actually got back up to a +2 bike tsb hence the bump in my numbers.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one with such big negative numbers. I was almost wondering if i should take an extra day off this week because I too was at -30 by weeks end last week. I think I sit at about -13 now which is better. Wonder if the plans take you to a point where we will be in the positive by the next test days. I sure hope so. That way it represents more of a true test score.
OK, now you have captured my curiosity. I have about two weeks of run/bike data in WKO+. As of today, the PMC shows -43 or so for the last 7 days on the TSB axis. I am guessing this is some kind of cumulative rolling stress score metric? Is TSB Total Stress Balance (I can think of a few other acronyms that are probably not appropriate here) and are we looking for more postive that negative numbers?
Was hoping some of the veterans could shed a little light for the rest of us. Maybe only having two weeks of data skews the info a bit? On the other hand, its probably accurate, yet another sign I need to stay within the box a little bit more?
your PMC has 3 lines on it basically - the pink line (ATL) is your acute training load and represents what you're currently doing each day. the yellow line is your TSB or training stress balance and represents the cumulative fatigue you're getting from all of those ATL spikes. Someone made a comment earlier about the two parting like the red sea and it's spot on. The harder you work the higher that pink line will go and the lower that yellow line will drop. The blue line is your CTL or chronic training load and is the avg TSS/day over time. consistent training = line goes up + breaks/taper = line goes down.
I was at -24 until I took the recent break. I am not sitting at -8, this is also with out running.
Having no running has helped keep me in the game but I have definintely pushed it given that I am coming from an untrained state. I think this was all my body could handle and I needed the break. I think its been a good thing that I am not starting running until Jan 1.
An annual trip to Chicago (depositing SAUs) forced me to bump up Saturday's bike to Friday. One fewer day of recovery, but I felt pretty good. My first week of training with power was really educational!
Had one of those "Holy Crap" days with the workout. Usually the Sat. bike (which is always challenging) followed by the "Easy Brick" run (What the crap is that in the plans saying easy) I think this run is one of the hardest to come off a good long hard bike and run paces of MP and then HMP. R&P I think had fun with that in the workout plans on the saying.
Anyway enough ranting. Today I didn't feel my normal fatigue anytime the whole workouts run or bike. On the bike I held 1st 10' @ 105% then the 2nd 10' @ 107%, and the 3rd 5' @ 109%. followed by the 2X15' @ 86%. In other words I was on fire and wandered how the run would go, but to my surprise held 1st 10' of run @ 6:39 pace and 2nd 10' @ 6:19 pace. Almost spot on paces and didn't feel toasted when done just refreshed. I'll take it.
Total miles on bike for the 1:15 :00 = 28.89 miles, run was: 20:01 = 3.11 miles
Nailed my workouts this morning. .95 IF for 86 minutes on the bike and 20 minute run at 7:31 avg pace leaves me at a -35.6 TSB for the week.....need to work on that a bit....
Did 2x10 @ 1.02 and .987 with 25 minutes @ .887. I missed the 1x5 @z5. It does not appear on my online schedule. I just downloaded the PDF to find it there. Guess I need to get in the habit of cross-referencing.
For me: 2x10' @ 105%, 5' @ 105%, 2x15' @ 88% for me today. Total of 79 minutes with IF 0.9. Legs still felt a little tired and I was really glad for the plan change and only having to hold for 10'.
I've been intentionally pushing greater than 100% since I haven't been able to run and figured I could as I wasn't getting the cummulative fatigue from runs like the rest of you. Now that I'm able to start running again I'm going to be more cautious with pushing greater than 100% and pay attention to how I'm recovering during off days. I feel like there's potential / risk at this point for me to push myself right into a brick wall and crash hard if I"m not careful.
Well, the 6am departure to drive 90 minutes to a cross race didn't happen, but at least I got to sleep in thanks to my dear wife.
When I finally decided to get it done, I suited up and tried to beat the rain/snow. I did a similar workout to Thurs where I combined the FT intervals into one finishing on a good climb. There were a few cold rain drops, but not too bad.
I didn't feel as frisky as Thurs, but then again, it wasn't 70 degrees either.
The numbers were slightly lower, but close enough.
342 pnorm for 25'
I cut the 85% a bit short
297 pnorm for 23:30'
312 pnorm for 60'
The 'easy my ass' brick run felt great in my new kicks.
Great work guys ! 2x10' at 306w, 1.06 1x5' at 324w, 1.13 2x15'at 260w.......Total bike 1:17/267 wNP/.93 IF 10' at 7:30 10' at 7:05 Nice work for a Saturday . Time to watch some SEC Football smackdown !
I did a small group ride that lasted longer than anticipated but got the work done...then limped home. Lap 2 (0:10:00.00): 51 miles and 5700 ft of climbing.
Comments
Hayes, that is a great way to look at it. I still have not learned my lesson about what is too much for me... usually I have to bump my head on the brick wall a few times before I realize to back off.
Dear Team Holy Crap,
First, I'm tickled pink to be part of this group. You all inspire and motivate me!
Second, I've noticed a few "my legs are dead/jello/filled with lead" posts this week. I'm feeling it too. So what's everyone's TSB (from the PMC chart) for this week?
I'm currently sitting around -21, but I've seen about a +8 point pop with each rest day, so should be back into the 13 range after the day off today.
Mike
Yep I was definitely tired as well. I even did not do Tuesday's workout as I was feeling very tired.
I came back with Thurday's workout today due to scheduling and felt ok. 2X10 183 (1.02) and 184( 1.02) with 22' @ 0.84.
Gordon
last week I was sitting in a -38 bike + run hole and boy, was I feeling it! this week, only about a -20 as I start to ease up in the stretch to Dallas.
But...that being said. the big part of that negative was the run for me due to the weekend long run. due to a missed holiday ride, I actually got back up to a +2 bike tsb hence the bump in my numbers.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one with such big negative numbers. I was almost wondering if i should take an extra day off this week because I too was at -30 by weeks end last week. I think I sit at about -13 now which is better. Wonder if the plans take you to a point where we will be in the positive by the next test days. I sure hope so. That way it represents more of a true test score.
OK, now you have captured my curiosity. I have about two weeks of run/bike data in WKO+. As of today, the PMC shows -43 or so for the last 7 days on the TSB axis. I am guessing this is some kind of cumulative rolling stress score metric? Is TSB Total Stress Balance (I can think of a few other acronyms that are probably not appropriate here) and are we looking for more postive that negative numbers?
Was hoping some of the veterans could shed a little light for the rest of us. Maybe only having two weeks of data skews the info a bit? On the other hand, its probably accurate, yet another sign I need to stay within the box a little bit more?
Thanks for any feedback.
SS
Shaughn,
There are some great posts in 3.0 explaining and about how to use the PMC. I will look for them later if I have time. We need Nemo on that.
your PMC has 3 lines on it basically - the pink line (ATL) is your acute training load and represents what you're currently doing each day. the yellow line is your TSB or training stress balance and represents the cumulative fatigue you're getting from all of those ATL spikes. Someone made a comment earlier about the two parting like the red sea and it's spot on. The harder you work the higher that pink line will go and the lower that yellow line will drop. The blue line is your CTL or chronic training load and is the avg TSS/day over time. consistent training = line goes up + breaks/taper = line goes down.
I was at -24 until I took the recent break. I am not sitting at -8, this is also with out running.
Having no running has helped keep me in the game but I have definintely pushed it given that I am coming from an untrained state. I think this was all my body could handle and I needed the break. I think its been a good thing that I am not starting running until Jan 1.
Gordon
Power-Tap #2:
Duration: 10:00
Work: 166 kJ
TSS: 22.1 (intensity factor 1.151)
Norm Power: 276
VI: 1
Pw:HR: 5.01%
Pa:HR: 8.26%
Distance: 3.798 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 200 359 276 watts
Heart Rate: 140 171 162 bpm
Cadence: 78 95 85 rpm
Speed: 20.7 24.7 22.7 mph
Pace 2:26 2:54 2:39 min/mi
Hub Torque: 64 102 80 lb-in
Power-Tap #4:
Duration: 10:02
Work: 157 kJ
TSS: 19.7 (intensity factor 1.085)
Norm Power: 260
VI: 1
Pw:HR: 3.77%
Pa:HR: 3.8%
Distance: 3.631 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 209 344 261 watts
Heart Rate: 139 167 162 bpm
Cadence: 72 109 83 rpm
Speed: 20.4 23.6 21.7 mph
Pace 2:32 2:57 2:46 min/mi
Hub Torque: 65 99 80 lb-in
Power-Tap #6:
Duration: 15:00
Work: 195 kJ
TSS: 20.4 (intensity factor 0.903)
Norm Power: 217
VI: 1
Pw:HR: 1.06%
Pa:HR: 2.2%
Distance: 5.075 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 189 247 217 watts
Heart Rate: 133 158 153 bpm
Cadence: 76 112 84 rpm
Speed: 19.4 21.3 20.2 mph
Pace 2:49 3:05 2:58 min/mi
Hub Torque: 62 80 71 lb-in
Power-Tap #8:
Duration: 15:02
Work: 197 kJ
TSS: 20.7 (intensity factor 0.91)
Norm Power: 218
VI: 1
Pw:HR: 0.82%
Pa:HR: 2.38%
Distance: 5.086 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 178 290 219 watts
Heart Rate: 136 159 153 bpm
Cadence: 75 109 82 rpm
Speed: 19.3 22 20.3 mph
Pace 2:44 3:06 2:58 min/mi
Hub Torque: 61 88 71 lb-in
Entire workout (199 watts):
Duration: 1:25:16
Work: 1019 kJ
TSS: 117.9 (intensity factor 0.911)
Norm Power: 219
VI: 1.1
Pw:HR: 11.77%
Pa:HR: 8.4%
Distance: 28.307 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 360 199 watts
Heart Rate: 0 171 147 bpm
Cadence: 53 170 84 rpm
Speed: 0 27.7 19.9 mph
Pace 2:10 0:00 3:01 min/mi
Hub Torque: 0 109 65 lb-in
@Leigh and Chris,
Thank you. I will also research further in 3.0. .....yes the two lines you mention below Leigh have opened a huge gap on the chart.
SS
I found an old tread on 3.0 discussing PMC. There were several links on the thread that were very helpful.
http://www.endurancenation.us/en_fo...php?t=9053
LouM
Big gap on menitoned PMC Chart....
Currently at -44 after yesterday's fun. What means -44 or -19 or whatever. Lines are "parted"
Had one of those "Holy Crap" days with the workout. Usually the Sat. bike (which is always challenging) followed by the "Easy Brick" run (What the crap is that in the plans saying easy) I think this run is one of the hardest to come off a good long hard bike and run paces of MP and then HMP. R&P I think had fun with that in the workout plans on the saying.
Anyway enough ranting. Today I didn't feel my normal fatigue anytime the whole workouts run or bike. On the bike I held 1st 10' @ 105% then the 2nd 10' @ 107%, and the 3rd 5' @ 109%. followed by the 2X15' @ 86%. In other words I was on fire and wandered how the run would go, but to my surprise held 1st 10' of run @ 6:39 pace and 2nd 10' @ 6:19 pace. Almost spot on paces and didn't feel toasted when done just refreshed. I'll take it.
Total miles on bike for the 1:15 :00 = 28.89 miles, run was: 20:01 = 3.11 miles
@Trent - Holy Crap!
Nailed my workouts this morning. .95 IF for 86 minutes on the bike and 20 minute run at 7:31 avg pace leaves me at a -35.6 TSB for the week.....need to work on that a bit....
Go Team!
SS
@ Trent, must have been a good morning for it. I felt the same way.
Hit 2 x 10' at 108%, then 5' at 119%, followed by 2 x 15' at 87% and 92%. Total 1:20:00 at 94%.
Got off and ran well. Love workouts that feel like this!!
Mike
@ Michael - Holy Crap X 2! Way to knock it out of the park!
Very Helpful Lou. Thanks Mucho!
3x10@ 307, 317, 320 watts
turned 2x15 into 1x30 mins at 264 watts....rolled the barn door up and watched the snow fall, felt good.
Mostly happy about my paying attention to recovery after Thursday. I would not have done that last year.
For me:
2x10' @ 105%, 5' @ 105%, 2x15' @ 88% for me today. Total of 79 minutes with IF 0.9. Legs still felt a little tired and I was really glad for the plan change and only having to hold for 10'.
I've been intentionally pushing greater than 100% since I haven't been able to run and figured I could as I wasn't getting the cummulative fatigue from runs like the rest of you. Now that I'm able to start running again I'm going to be more cautious with pushing greater than 100% and pay attention to how I'm recovering during off days. I feel like there's potential / risk at this point for me to push myself right into a brick wall and crash hard if I"m not careful.
Well, the 6am departure to drive 90 minutes to a cross race didn't happen, but at least I got to sleep in thanks to my dear wife.
When I finally decided to get it done, I suited up and tried to beat the rain/snow. I did a similar workout to Thurs where I combined the FT intervals into one finishing on a good climb. There were a few cold rain drops, but not too bad.
I didn't feel as frisky as Thurs, but then again, it wasn't 70 degrees either.
The numbers were slightly lower, but close enough.
342 pnorm for 25'
I cut the 85% a bit short
297 pnorm for 23:30'
312 pnorm for 60'
The 'easy my ass' brick run felt great in my new kicks.
7:16 for 1.41
6:38 for 1.47
20 min 2.88 miles 6:56 min/mile
One more day and we're 25% done with the OS!
Nice work all.
Dave
I was fighting it on the last 10' and 15' interval but toughed it out.
3x10' @ 1.06, 1.07, 1.04 and 2x15' @ ; .86, .83
Entire workout (176 watts):
Duration: 1:26:17
Work: 911 kJ
TSS: 117.1 (intensity factor 0.902)
Norm Power: 190
VI: 1.08
Pw:HR: 6.87%
Pa:HR: 3.55%
Distance: 22.387 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 341 176 watts
Heart Rate: 73 169 145 bpm
Cadence: 46 134 81 rpm
Speed: 2.2 21 15.6 mph
Pace 2:51 26:49 3:51 min/mi
Crank Torque: 0 310 186 lb-in
2x10' at 306w, 1.06
1x5' at 324w, 1.13
2x15'at 260w.......Total bike 1:17/267 wNP/.93 IF
10' at 7:30
10' at 7:05
Nice work for a Saturday . Time to watch some SEC Football smackdown !
Vince
Duration: 9:40 (10:00)
Work: 173 kJ
TSS: 20.8 (intensity factor 1.135)
Norm Power: 308
VI: 1.03
Pw:HR: 12.43%
Pa:HR: -9.51%
Distance: 2.228 mi
Elevation Gain: 405 ft
Elevation Loss: 126 ft
Grade: 2.4 % (279 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 441 299 watts
Heart Rate: 124 163 156 bpm
Cadence: 19 111 83 rpm
Speed: 3.3 49.6 13.4 mph
Pace 1:13 18:13 4:29 min/mi
Altitude: 463 771 652 ft
Crank Torque: 0 729 321 lb-in
Lap 4 (0:10:00.00):
Duration: 9:42 (9:59)
Work: 177 kJ
TSS: 20.7 (intensity factor 1.13)
Norm Power: 306
VI: 1.01
Pw:HR: 1.48%
Pa:HR: 12.38%
Distance: 2.263 mi
Elevation Gain: 435 ft
Elevation Loss: 191 ft
Grade: 2.1 % (245 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 569 305 watts
Heart Rate: 145 164 159 bpm
Cadence: 42 119 79 rpm
Speed: 4.1 43.9 13.5 mph
Pace 1:22 14:38 4:26 min/mi
Altitude: 819 1110 970 ft
Crank Torque: 0 721 349 lb-in
Lap 6 (0:05:01.84):
Duration: 5:00 (5:01)
Work: 100 kJ
TSS: 12.8 (intensity factor 1.238)
Norm Power: 335
VI: 1
Pw:HR: 9.78%
Pa:HR: 4.92%
Distance: 0.742 mi
Elevation Gain: 292 ft
Elevation Loss: 2 ft
Grade: 7.4 % (290 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 240 429 334 watts
Heart Rate: 127 163 155 bpm
Cadence: 67 96 78 rpm
Speed: 1.6 18.2 8.9 mph
Pace 3:18 37:08 6:45 min/mi
Altitude: 564 854 716 ft
Crank Torque: 225 541 364 lb-in
Entire workout (197 watts):
Duration: 3:25:06 (3:54:32)
Work: 2298 kJ
TSS: 263.1 (intensity factor 0.901)
Norm Power: 244
VI: 1.24
Pw:HR: 10.99%
Pa:HR: -37.84%
Distance: 51.232 mi
Elevation Gain: 5736 ft
Elevation Loss: 5737 ft
Grade: -0.0 % (-1 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 1014 197 watts
Heart Rate: 86 241 137 bpm
Cadence: 1 132 81 rpm
Speed: 0 72.2 14.5 mph
Pace 0:50 0:00 4:09 min/mi
Altitude: 136 1563 751 ft
Crank Torque: 0 1810 218 lb-in