Home OutSeason January 2011 Group Discussion-OutSeason January 2011

Anybody Awake Here/ This is a Swim Thread

 Wow. It is so quite here. Gotta wake you all up. 

Ok, I know you all are swimming or beginning to swim, short course season is around the corner. So, post your swims here for the remainder of OS.

Today AM rest, PM 4100SCM, MS 3x800@13:00 desc+ 4x100@2:00 IM easy+ 6x25@:45 fly dr

800s all sub 12min,last 11:52. IMs all 1:40, fly drill single arm 20sec on all.

Lets have some fun with swimming or lack of it, either way, if you get wet, post it here. Don't know if I am going to get scolded for this at the "Principal's Office". Will find out.

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Comments

  • I swam yesterday morning.
    2500 LCM, MS 6x300 on 5:00, nice and smooth. I unintentionally descended 1-4, hitting the wall in 4:38-4:31. Trying not to look at the swim workouts I was doing a year ago because it's depressing.
  • @Michael:

     Keep posting it. You are going to get me or keep me going. LCM times there look decent. I know you are a  fish and that in relative terms, you maybe unhappy. But good news is that it can only get better from there. Maybe, I get to those "not so great times" this summer as I plunge into LCM pool, for now SCM and SCY for me. 4:38-4:31desc LCM would be pretty good for me.

    Wednesday's MS is 9x300@4:45 desc in 3s+12x50 in 4s @1:00/:55/:50/:45. Will let you know how it plays out. 

    Keep it up.

  • Planning to start swimming on Apr 18. And not a minute before. But when I start, I'll post.
    Agree we need to wake everyone up, seems like the JOS team is disappearing!!
  •  Here is how it went today AM. Had to cut the transition set out and the cooldown, that left me with only 4500SCM, but MS1 and MS2 were done.

    Not great, actually on a slow side, but my coach reduced the send offs on 300s recently  4:45, so struggle here a little.

    9x300@4:45 negative split, EN1/EN3, desc in 3s, slowest 4:31 ( Mike, you do this LCM, way faster than I am), fastest 4:25, all splits in 150s were by 5-6sec. I had to negotiate it slowly through, so that I can finish this.

    Mike, looking at last year this time, 300s@4:50 were most in 4:20, I am not too far.

    MS2 12x50 in 3s @1:00/:55/:50/:45, went ok, not fast at all, descended them from 44sec to 39sec.

    I have not done any true sole VO2max work in the water yet, this year. That should help me drop the times in the lower end at 100-200. I am sensing that it is coming. I am less than 7 weeks to go to A race, now is the time.

    Matt, get wet and post it.

     

  • OK, AT, you're on. I used to love swimming, now I hate it, since I bascially aged 10 years in the pool overnight. Maybe if I keep posting here, I'll maintain motivation to do what I need to do.

    Today, in a 25 yd pool: warm up of 600/500 on 20" rest in about 1:51/100. Then 4 x (2 x 50 drill, 2 x 125, 2 x 75). I'm still too scared to look at my times for repeats like this, but I was doing them on 5-10" rest. Total distance 3000 yds (a milestone for me this year), in just under 64 minutes.

    For comparison, I checked my log for what I did this date last year: in a 25 m pool, 2700 meters in 60 minutes, 4 x (4 x 100) descending from 1:48 to 1:36 over the four sets, then 400/300 in 7:20/5:26. Ugh. My yards times are probably slower than my meters times from last year.

    My goal for swimming is far differnet than it has been in past IM cycles. Where I used to do the 3,8k swim in 66-67 minutes (up to 70 minutes last year), now I'm just trying to finish in under 80 minutes, with 76 as my stretch goal. If I can hold my losses to those 6 minutes, it'll feel like a victory for me.

  •  Al, I am glad I got you in on this. Whatever it takes to motivate you. Keep it going and just plain be consistent, forget the clock, forget the log and just go for that feel. I am sure that you will be back on track in a timely manner. Let's keep this exchange going. I think the swim threads are so hard to find here, that anything helps. I don't have problem slipping my shoes on or hopping on the bike, but pool work always takes some negotiating with myself. This will help.

    Starting tomorrow, I will post the whole workout as written, so that I can have a full disclosure of the work as I get it handed down to me. Feel free to comment anytime. I think, will have Michael and Matt on this here. I think, it will be a solid group to start, hope more join us. We need to have an educated exchange on swim work as we don't have that as much we have quality in bike and run. Let's make the best of it.

  • ok - 3rd day this week in pool. 1000M TT = 18.20 = 1:50 pace for 100M. THats about right. I think by end of last summer I could do 17:50ish - so about where I'd expect, I did do a 2 week swim block in end of Feb (due to injury) and a 3 week block last Dec - all drills stuff. I'd like to get that down to 17:30 ideally. Another goal....
  •  @Pete, good work, keep it up.

    Today AM, SCY pool, got to swim with kids we coach, sprint free flavor: (they did a lot more than me, just joined in on a part of it)

    50min 3200SCY


    WU

    500sw

    200k

    TR

    12x50@1:15  1-3kos/ 4-6 6ks/ 7-9 catch up/ 10-12 long perfect stroke

    MS

    2 sets (2min):

    8x25@ :30 explode/burst/easy/fast          all in 13-15sec

    4x50@:55 build fast                                 set 1 35sec-32sec      set 2 all in 32sec

    30sec

    4x50@:45 make the SI                            set 1 all 36sec             set 2 all 40sec                      

    30sec

    4x50@:55 fast                                           set 1 32sec                   set 2 30sec 30sec 31sec 30sec

    50 easy sw

    ---------------------------

    200 as 100br/100bk

    CD

    200sw

     

    Nothing beats having the Head Coach standing on the deck above your head with a stopwatch asking is that breakfast coming back up yet, "no madam", I replied. Ok, she says, last one is sub 30, needless to say I could not make it on the last one.

    It was fun. Now onto the Saturday brick.

    Keep them coming guys.

  • Running really late today. I had planned to do 10x200 but there wasn't time. So, I wound up doing the monthly time trial.
    600 w/u
    1000 TT (14:37) LCM
    400 w/d
  • Did the 10x200 pull as a main set last night (5K test today, so very little kicking). Descended 1-3, 4-6, and 7-9 (10th was IM). Subpar swim, I think I am just carrying a ton of accumulated fatigue.
  • Same here. It frustrates me pretty bad. Bike just kills me and leaves very little. I get this pretty seriuos swim workouts and find my self frequently not being able to make send offs that I should. It almost looks as if I am running in circles. Than, I would throw down a pr interval out of the blue. I have faded more times through the set, no fun.
    2 months ago I did maglischo's version of T30 test, 15x200@3:15 SCM, came out for T30 at 1:28. Honestly, I dont think I can swim it any faster now.
    Anyway, had an hour this AM, took en swim workout and knocked it out quick. I will cover the MS only, total was 3200SCY in 55min,
    4x200@3:05 all in 2:35
    4x150@2:20 all in 2:00
    Not great at all.
  •  I AM ALIVE!

    I swam 3 x 500 at 1:35's/100yds today.  I LOVE to swim!  Just love it.

     

  • Hey John, nice to see you are getting wet too. We missed you here. Glad you are back. Keep it up, 500s are for tough always.
  • I get frustrated too, but focus on the ROI for further improvement. I try to get my swim to a certain level (21 minutes for Olympic, 27:30 for HIM) and just hold it there. The training time necessary to get much faster is pretty big, and when I can't break 2:30 for the 56 mile ride or 1:49 for the run afterward, the opportunity cost of getting the swim faster is huge. Gaining 30-60 seconds in the water is irrelevant compared to the 10 minutes I lose on the bike and run. Even at the Olympic Distance, only something like 15% of the total time is swimming.
  • I hear you Michael - I feel like I'm just maintaining in the water. Can't afford to put time in the pool when so much more can be gained on bike and run. But I'm trying to get 3 swims per week starting last week till IMLP.

    Yesterday morning was 1st swim w/o for this week. Got in 2000 meters total - about 45-50 minutes.
    12 x 100m @ 1:48 every third = pull
    4 x 50m @ 00:50
    2 x 150m
    3 x 100m easy
  • I tried a few laps with paddles for the first time in my life yesterday. I feel I need some feedback on the quality of my catch and consistency of my pull, with my stroke being challenged by arm weakness. I learned my elbows were not quite high enough, good info to apply to my swim training. I'm doing drills (with and without paddles) mixed into sets of 400 yds of vaerious distances (2 x 200, 4 x 100, etc), so I move from the paddle data right into trying to work hard on repeats. It seems to be helping, but I'm still not clocking my interval times,k just my overall time for the session, 3200yds/68 minutes. My goal is 3800/80, 3 x per week by the end of the month

  • Today I officially started TRIathlon training. It has been DU for the outseason until now. First time in the pool since just after the Chicago Triathlon last August. I took the advide of the thread in the general forum and did a 1000m TT after a warmup.



    The good:

    - Felt comfortable in the pool, form was not too bad

    - I swam 1800 yards (actually 1840 due to a miscount)



    The bad:

    - Brutally, brutally slow. 17:23 for 1000 yds (1:44/100). This is slower than my usual warmup and cooldown last year.

    - No strength, my arms were dead and I could barely lift myself out of the pool at the end

    - Form was falling apart due to lack of strength to control my body. The last 200 yds of the TT were at 1:49.



    But I feel like when the muscles rebuild I can get back to last year, no problem. That of course is not much to get excited about, but swimming has never been my strength (I am self-taught beginning January 2010 so probably need to invest in some coaching at some point...just hasn't been a priority...).



    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/80221408



    Cheers,

    Matt

  • 3000 LCM this evening in about 50 minutes.
    500 w/u
    3x400 (30') all 3 in 6 minutes
    100 easy
    8x100 (15'-20') (all 1:20-1:24)
    100 easy
    200 IM
    100 c/d
  • Update...my entire upper body is feeling ROUGH today...
  •  @Pete, Al, Matt, Michael keep it up. It is rough for all of us. I am feeling like I can come here and cry about it. I know it will get better as soon as I back off the bike/run life killing machine. I am just having less and less left in the tank to pull off a decent swim. I have not had a good swim in over a week.

    I had  two attempts at a swim, two days in a row this weekend, but just did a warm up, sank , picked up my toys and left home.

    This morning I greatly reduced the workout I was given, it was IM work in nature, I took it easy and got through some of it, here is what I did:

    WU

    400sw

    200IM kick

    200pull

    transition set:

    6x50@1:15 odds single arm free/ evens catch up 

    MS

    4x50@1:30 fly

    set 1 back

    100@2:00 75@1:30 50@1:00 25@:45

    set 2 all breast

    set 3 all free

    set 4 as above fly

    set 6 all back

    called it a day, had bunch more, wanted to save for PM bike/run work

    Matt, my whole body hurts after some of my swims for several days. I know how you are feeling. 

     

     

  • Ohhhh... swim thread - yay! 

    Been doing the OS swim hack.  Mostly 'cause I kind of have a thing for the swim and refuse to let any fitness go, even if it is a poor ROI.  The exciting news is I attended a clinic on Saturday and got videotaped!   My elbows were nice and high and I was deemed to have a good catch, woot!  I will be working in increasing my turnover...

    Swam yesterday and didn't have any epiphanies from the clinic, unfortunately.  Effort was kind of varied, depended on whether I was drag racing with DH in the lane. Pride is an excellent motivator!   

    WU: 200 swim, 200 pull

    MS: 10 x 150 (15") as 100 Hard, 50 Easy. 100 easy swim. 3 x 200

    (15") pull, Steady with excellent stroke.

    CD: 200 easy swim

    Took my 100 splits on the 150s.  I find it keeps me honest on the "hard" effort prescribed. 1:31, 1:31, 1:34, 1:29, 1:36, 1:32, 1:28, 1:30, 1:32 and 1:27.   Then go home wait for my victory waffles 'cause I won most of the drag races.  



     

     

  • Posted By Aleksandar Tasic on 19 Apr 2011 02:08 PM

     @Pete, Al, Matt, Michael keep it up. It is rough for all of us. I am feeling like I can come here and cry about it. I know it will get better as soon as I back off the bike/run life killing machine. I am just having less and less left in the tank to pull off a decent swim. I have not had a good swim in over a week.

    Matt, my whole body hurts after some of my swims for several days. I know how you are feeling. 

      

    Keep at it guys... 90% of the battle is just getting wet sometimes! 



     

  •  @Thanks Jenn. Good work with the swim hack. Those swims are solid and to the point. 

    I am swimming every day this week. I can afford it. It is my week off. Bike and run fitness have been on target. Next 5 weeks I will do minimum prescribed SC bike and run, but will turn up the swim. I am not giving a second anywhere.

  • @ Aleksandar, I like the attitude, don't give any seconds. And in SC, the swim is MUCH more important (relatively, of course)
  • 3500yds this morning as:
    300 swim w/u
    100 kick
    200 pull
    100 drill
    6x50 build
    10x50 w 25 hard 25 easy 10 sec rest
    8x50 w 35 hard 15 easy 15 sec rest
    6x50 hard with 20 sec rest
    100 easy
    300 pull
    300 swim
    300 pull
    100 back
    100 breast
    100 free easy
  •  Hello swimmers. Paul, that was a nice session. I like that variety. Keeps my sanity in the water.

    @Matt, thanks for the comment. Seconds collect here and there.....soon a minute.......SC no way, no way in HIM either. It's that pilot speaking in me, Mach .92 baby, balls to the walls only.

    Crawling my swim fitness back up, I guess. First session in 10 days that I was not sinking. Couple of days ago, I had a rare opportunity to work with my wife on stroke construction and foundations of breathing in the water. So, I had to demonstrate a few drills. She goes, why do you sink so much? I replied, I am dead tired and I also have only 5% body fat, I have to kick myself to the surface and my legs were beat from biking and running abuse. Anyway, just goes on to tell that it was not just my subjective feeling of sinking, it was happening. When that happens, so my times go to toilet.

    This AM no brake through but ok given how mentally and physically beat I was feeling lately.

    I completed the MS and some recovery work after but did cut it short by 800m total.

    Total 3800SCM 70min


    WU

    400sw

    200k

    200pull

    TR

    4x50@1:15 IM dr

    MS

    4 sets (1min recovery)

    300@4:45

    200@3:30

    100@1:45       desc all by 100

    --------------

    200sw

    4x75@1:45 IM order 25k/25dr/25sw

     

    MS times, very even and consistent:

    300s 4:30 4:30 4:27 4:28

    200s 3:00 2:58 2:58 2:57

    100s 1:22 1:22 1:22 1:23

  •  AM swim session per SC ADV. plan. It was decent, no major improvement, actually stagnating, but I will take that with this level of fatigue, I call it success. 

    It was 6x500(30sec). For a reference, I swam many of those SCM touching in 7:15-7:20. Not today.

    4000SCM 70min


    WU

    3x200@3:30  desc    easy   3:06 3:03 3:00

    MS

    6x500(30sec) all @8:00       times 7:38 7:36 7:33 7:31 7:31 7:32 

    4x50@1:00 catch up

    CD

    200sw

     

    This one was get in, get it done and get out. There is a PM swim today also, it will amount to 2000SCM doing 300 SKIPS, recovery type. Oxymoron isn't it. The only recovery my body recognizes at 40 years old is couch time. But, will call it that way. I am looking to get swimming back on track by focusing on frequency. I can afford it due to my scheduled off week at home and I have rather "large" base( real swimmers would laugh at that)swimming since Nov 2010 with many weeks over 15000-16000. Will see how it goes. Just as anecdotal stuff, my 8 year old daughter swims 12000-15000/week compared to triathlete's large base.........

    Have fun guys and girls and keep them coming.

  • Saturday after the brick. Had been planning to do one of the OS workouts, but I was totally blown from the week's workouts, so I decided to do an easier, slower workout:
    500 w/u
    1900 at HIM intensity
    200 w/d
    28:50 for the 1900. Felt pretty dead by the end. It turns out I did the exact same workout a year ago, and finished in 27:58, which a lower RPE. The whole out-season plan was to give up a minute on the swim and invest that time in the bike and run. I guess I have the first part of that done.
  • @Michael, 28min is pretty decent, good time. Now all you need to make happen that it is efortless so that you can hammer the bike/run.

    I have decided to back for a few days, also in the water but still keeping intensity swimming where bike/run will see no intensity before Thursday and only if I feel better.

    Today was a Week 18 SC adv. swim Monday:

    MS1 16x100(20sec) 50 sprint/ 50 easy

    This was SCY, 82F water.

    This was the flavor:

    WU

    200sw 2:43

    200k

    200pull 2:40

    4x50@1:00 catch up all in 44sec

    MS

    15x100(20sec) as 50sprint/50 easy

    after every 5th, extra 50 easy

    I did them as 50sprint free/50 easy backstroke:

    50 sprint times

    1-5     :32 :31 :30 :30 :30

    6-10   :30 :29 :29 :31 :31

    11-15 :31 :31 :32 :32 :33   little fade here

    CD

    200sw

     

    I will be posting here again in a day or two, but will be my flavor swim.

    Keep up the work.
  •  Here comes another swim, pretty hot pool 84F, SCY, on the road. I would have characterized this as a terrible swim, but given how hot the water was, I did ok. I was fading through as I was overheating, no doubt. In the end times came close to my SCM, not quite,but about 5-7% slower from 1st-6th.

    Total 4200SCY 70min

    WU

    200sw

    200pull

    100bk

    100br

    3x100@2:00 IM drill

    MS

    6x400@6:00 negative split, second 200 EN2/T30 pace, well, much to be desired

    5:25 5:27 5:32 5:32 5:35 5:50    glad that was done, felt as if my head was going to blow up from heat

     I did negative split them but ascended them instead of descending, pretty poor there.

    4x75@1:30 as 25k/25dr/25sw IM order

    4x100@1:45 odds IM evens free, these came out decent, all descended IMs in 1:25

    1x50 fly   in 36sec

    CD

    200sw

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