Home November ‘09 Outseason

V02 max intervals on the bike

I mistakenly posted this on the Dec OS...OOPS!

Remember this great discussion last year about the 30/30's? http://www.endurancenation.us/en_fo...ght=billat

Anyhoo, I remember doing 2.5' at 120% FTP with 2.5' of rest instead of the 30/30's. Why? because I felt like it took 10 seconds to get up to the watts I wanted then it was time to rest.  The 2.5' interval felt more "sustainable" for holding those watts.

Anyone else planning on doing this?

Comments

  • Thanks for that link, Kitima!  Somehow I missed that last year.  I'm jumping in on the Power Hack, so I'll won't be joining you on those 2.5'/2.5's 

    Mike

  • I plan to see how the first few weeks go before I really modify anything.

    Please let us know any lessons learned when completing the 2.5 mod.

  • I also last  year modified my 30/30's to 2.5's, but I would do so with caution.  I remember feeling perty toasted some weeks so I ended up changing it up some weeks (when feeling good) doing the 2.5's and then others (feeling toasted) doing the 30/30's.  It was nice to change it up and not have to do the same thing week after week.

    I will miss it as I too am in the power hace group and prepared to:

  • Kitima,

    I'll fool around with these a bit.  I'll probably start with 30/30's for tomorrow, then mix it up with some longer intervals building up to 2.5.

    Dave  

  • Just lurking....

    Am also in power clinic group, but- last year- 30/30s- I had some problem as Kitima. I went to 1'/1' after finding 2.5'/2.5' a bit too long. I try to keep total time at 120% the same, just different. Still doing that. Will see if make any improvement this year.

  • Kitima,

    There were a couple good things in that post that I will get to first my experience from today's ride.

    I found that I had trouble for the first 2-3 30/30's then I got dialed in better but not great.  I felt that it was better to push a few more watts than go under so I was well over my 241 (120%) at some points espceially the start.  My max watts for the ride was 352, peak 5s 292 and peak 10s 272, peak 30s 261, so well above the 241 I was aiming for. 

    My solution once I found the gear and cadence that I liked was to start to spin up and drop to a harder cog about 3-5 seconds before the interval was to start.  I found that this would allow me to get the watts up from 130 to 220/230 before the interval started.  By the final 5X30/30 I was in the 120%+ zone for most of the interval.  I also felt that a little harder was better than too easy so I got a fair share of 250+ work in there.  I don't think I will change as I like the recovery time in between each 30's

    Now back to the couple points.  I feel that the 2.5/2.5 would be easier to hold more consistently but will also tax your body more than 30/30's.  I just think back to the power hack test that was just completed 5' all out then 20'.  Most comments that I read were "this makes the 2x20 test look easy".  If you are 3,4,5 sets what will the cumulative effect of this be on your body over the 6 weeks?  Watch the recovery after the rides I really don't know how much hard a 2.5'/2.5' effort is over a 5X30/30.   

    I found the60-72% recovery zone on my own.  I was going easier that this over the previous 8 weeks and found this zone to help keep the HR up.  Perhaps with a 2.5' effort you may need to back this down a little, I don't know.  

    Gordon

  • I did the 30/30's today and shifted to a harder gear 3 seconds before the interval started (thanks, Gordon!)--which really helped. They felt relatively easy (compared to the FTP intervals). When I did the Power Hack test this year, my V02/FTP ratio was way higher than last year (1.37 vs. 1.12). So 120%FTP watts are 34 watts less than my tested V02max watts. I found myself riding those intervals >120% today.
    I'll try the 2.5/2.5 at 120% on Thurs. I don't want to train into a brick wall so I'll see if there's enough of a rest interval...
  • I signed up for the power hack but haven't received the info as of yet so I did today's workout as planned.

    I set up my protocol to do 120% of my Z5 number or 385 watts for my 30/30's. I thought it was ambitious but then found it easier than I expected. I aimed for 450 watts instead. It was easier than I thought. Is it 120% of FTP, Z5 or ALL OUT? I shot for ALL OUT today and had a good 20 min brick run where I had to hold myself back to EZ pace as I was comfortable at marathon to 1/2 mary pace.

    Vince
  • Vince,

    The beginner program calls for 120% not all out.  Having said that the plan states very hard and at the 120% I would have call it hard, maybe 8-8.5 by the 3rd set of 5.  I'm not sure I hit point of feeling tired until late in the 85% work. I could feel the legs were tired but could have kept pushing the 85% for awhile more. 

    65 watts is quite a difference but if you are recovering then I would not say much.  Two weeks from now might be a different story though.

    Gordon

  • The key to these workouts is 120% for the 30" on and 60% for the 30" off. Anyone can be a rock star if they are sitting on 30W for a full 30 seconds. For me this is 385 and 190, so I opted to try and keep recoveries in 200 range. It was a tough workout (but I am a bit sick) and I was fine with it.

    If you are going to hack it to 2.5/2.5, remember that you wouldn't make the 4 x (5 x 30/30s) into 4 x (5 x 2.5/2.5). You'd be dead. It would just be 4 x 2.5/2.5 and done.

    P

  • Posted By Patrick McCrann on 30 Dec 2009 04:49 AM

    If you are going to hack it to 2.5/2.5, remember that you wouldn't make the 4 x (5 x 30/30s) into 4 x (5 x 2.5/2.5). You'd be dead.

    P





     

    I almost spit my coffee out I was laughing so hard.    Now the question is, who will secretly try that workout to prove they won't die. 

    Dave

  • I have to say that stuff just like they tell you to put your seatbelt on in planes. Obvious, but someone will mess it up, and when they do it will be SPECTACULAR.
  • So just 4 x 2.5/2.5...I remember this from last year. Don't want to do any more than I have to. Ha!
  • If I remember correctlyfrom last year as a guinea pig power hacker, 2.5/2.5 played a prominent role.
  • 120% of FTP and likewise 60% of FTP?  Also for clarification would it be more benefitial to hit higher wattages for the 30" on and lower on the rest period or just stick with the 120% and 60%?

    I was definately taking more rest than 60% on my 30" off as I was toast. I was more like 110 watts vs 175 for recovery.

    Vince

     

  • got the work out done early today. feeling good about this VO2 stuff. 

    Entire workout (171 watts):

        Duration:      1:00:58

        Work:          624 kJ

        TSS:           73.6 (intensity factor 0.851)

        Norm Power:    177

        VI:            1.04

        Pw:HR:          n/a

        Pa:HR:          n/a

        Distance:      23.377 mi

            Min    Max    Avg

        Power:           0    310    171     watts

        Cadence:         36    103    78     rpm

        Speed:           0    28.5    22.9     mph

        Pace             2:06    0:00    2:37     min/mi

        Hub Torque:      0    85    48     lb-in

        Crank Torque:    0    370    183     lb-in

     

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