Home November ‘09 Outseason

Week 2 - Run Thread

In and effort to keep things organized, I thought I'd start this format off.  The NOS group form last year did this and it helped make it easier to keep up, find topics, etc.

 

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  • okay, sounds good. I ran for sanity today and not on the workout list and ready to take a hit in my other workouts.. but Mondays = housework and groceries and it goes better if I get a little fun in the morning!!! I am talking big haul $300 of food that won't last too long, and other mundane tasks... but the run was 5 miles and it felt good. hadn't ran since Friday so was itching to feel the pavement under my feet.
  • I didn't run today and thats a pretty big accomplishment for me ;-)

    Still feeling a little under the weather so I decided to sleep in and actually follow the rest day in the plan. Who knows maybe I can get used to this sleeping in and day off stuff after all.
  • We are a day ahead of you guys so it is like looking into a crystal ball.

    We did the run workout at the track with the group we host on Tuesday mornings from our team. Had 12 runners total at 6am. Half the group is doing a marathon on Dec 6th so they had one workout. The rest of us did our workout.

    warm up 2 miles, drills

    2 x 1.5 miles at Z4  with 4 minutes recovery between sets ( Steve's Z4 is 6:10 pace, did his in 9:11( 6:07) and 9:14( 6:10),  My Z4 is 7:12 pace and I did mine a little fast in 10:33( 7:02), 10:25( 6:58)

    Then a 2 mile cool down

    So about 8 miles total. 

    We both felt surprisingly good at Z4 pace. Very encouraging!!

    Carrie and Steve

  • Due to nice weather and the inability to brick today, I did an easy 35' run last night.

    Does anyone else find it uncomfortable to run at the easy/long pace?  I feel like I'm plodding along and my legs don't feel great at this pace.  When I added 3x30" strides, I felt much better.

    With my TP, HMP, and MP so close 6:38, 6:45, and 7:02, then the EP at 8:16, I've found running at EP a difficult transition.  I've developed a 'default' run pace where I could just go out and run what I think is easy and that's around 7:30 - 7:45ish.

    Am I better off adjusting the EP to my 'default' pace?

    Granted, since Aug, my running has just been going out for a run.  Sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard, but never over 8 min/miles. 

    Any suggestions would be helpful.

    Dave

  • Well, after these last two post from the veterans above, I can now stop thinking about today's arse whipping on the 3X8 bike intervals, and focus on "getting it done" tomorrow on the run. Geez, those times above show some maturity and focus!



    SS

  • Posted By David Halligan on 10 Nov 2009 10:19 AM

    Due to nice weather and the inability to brick today, I did an easy 35' run last night.

    Does anyone else find it uncomfortable to run at the easy/long pace?  I feel like I'm plodding along and my legs don't feel great at this pace.  When I added 3x30" strides, I felt much better.

    With my TP, HMP, and MP so close 6:38, 6:45, and 7:02, then the EP at 8:16, I've found running at EP a difficult transition.  I've developed a 'default' run pace where I could just go out and run what I think is easy and that's around 7:30 - 7:45ish.

    Am I better off adjusting the EP to my 'default' pace?

    Granted, since Aug, my running has just been going out for a run.  Sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard, but never over 8 min/miles. 

    Any suggestions would be helpful.

    Dave



    Dave, I treat Easy Pace (Z1) as my JRA (Just run along pace) as long as that falls into the Gap between Marathon Pace - EZ pace, I'm fine with it. My EZ pace is 8:15 ish. I always settle into the 7:50 zone. I don't sweat it. I treat all zone as the complete gap between the next pace.

     

  • Posted By David Halligan on 10 Nov 2009 10:19 AM

    With my TP, HMP, and MP so close 6:38, 6:45, and 7:02, then the EP at 8:16, I've found running at EP a difficult transition.  I've developed a 'default' run pace where I could just go out and run what I think is easy and that's around 7:30 - 7:45ish.

    Am I better off adjusting the EP to my 'default' pace?





     

    Hey Dave,

    I understand what you are saying and I think most of us find that our comfortable pace is between EP and MP.

    Just make sure you are recovering from your intervals and workouts enough as it is easy to fall into a trap of speeding way to much time in the "gray zone" between EP and MP.  If you find you can't hit your TP or HMP intervals or arn't recovering as quickly from your workouts slow back down to your EP.

    If you fall into the trap of running your TP and HMP a little slower and running you EP too fast you in some ways are defeating the purpose of the workouts as written.

    Just my two cents based on my experience...

  • I also did my 2 x 1.5 miles today.  Why is it that I can't remember ever doing 1.5 mile repeats?  Have we ever done these before?  I guess I am in a 1 mile repeat state of mind cuz by 8/10th of a mile I was fading on each.  Completely struggled to keep the pace the last 1/2 mile and failed on both intervals.   

    1 - 7:51

    2 - 7:54

    5 miles total.  That hurt but got it done.

     

  • Posted By David Halligan on 10 Nov 2009 10:19 AM

    Does anyone else find it uncomfortable to run at the easy/long pace?  I feel like I'm plodding along and my legs don't feel great at this pace.  When I added 3x30" strides, I felt much better.


    Dave - I usually feel more comfortable around 7:40 until I throw the intervals in.  Rest intervals are usually Z1 or slower.  It definitely feels like a more comfortable pace than 8:30

  • Posted By John Stark on 10 Nov 2009 01:00 PM

    I also did my 2 x 1.5 miles today.  Why is it that I can't remember ever doing 1.5 mile repeats?  Have we ever done these before?  I guess I am in a 1 mile repeat state of mind cuz by 8/10th of a mile I was fading on each.  Completely struggled to keep the pace the last 1/2 mile and failed on both intervals.   

    1 - 7:51

    2 - 7:54

    5 miles total.  That hurt but got it done.

     

    John we have mixed things up this year based on feedback...1.5miles is sustainable (yet very difficult). Glad you are suffering (as it will make you faster!).

     

    P

  • aka - the "should I trash my EP" thread

    To make sure the thread from the 3.0 forum is heard over here, we recommend that you so your very very best to sit on EP.  This isn't a crazy RnP metric that we only half figured out, it's from Mr. Daniels himself and it works. Imagine how much Ryan Hall complains about running 6' miles for 20 miles instead of 5:30s where he feels so much better.  image

    To add, from my personal experience, over achieving daily on running sets me up to underachieve on race day. IOW, if I choose daily to run just a bit harder, it's not like I am earning extra credit...just unnecessary fatigue. Think about it.

     

  • On EP,

    I have a girlfriend who is on fire right now and running in 1:27-1:28 HM pace for races and is shooting for 3:05 marathon in Dec. She Regularly "slums" it with me running 8:30's or slower and this I believe is key to her success. She gets miles in at no cost and when she runs tempo or track she is rested and " smokes " me!!

    I am a fan of EP! I always run better at the next workout because I am rested!!

    Carrie
  • Posted By Carrie Chavez on 10 Nov 2009 03:44 PM

    On EP,



    I am a fan of EP! I always run better at the next workout because I am rested!!



    Carrie





     

    ditto!!

  • I did the Wed. run today because I am adjusting my week to take Thursday off. I was inside on my tmill cuz my running partner bailed and its too dark and scary for me to run alone at 6am - image. Managed to hit all the intervals but my body is really looking forward to the day off coming my way - its hard not having the monday off. BTW - I Love EP! Sometimes I agree it feels like plodding (especially when you are talking my kind of paces--- LOL), however, when I follow the plan and warm up using it, I do much better and I find it is usually put in the plan when recovery is needed by the body. I also agree with Carrie - I always feel better at my next workout when I stick to the EP runs.
  • I'm trying to add a few more miles to the week. Ran just under 13, averaging 7:19's. The two 1.5 mile sections were at 5:53 and 5:57, right at my 5K pace. I added a little more rest time between the sets, mostly because I was on a hilly course and needed / wanted a longer flat section.

    Back to bike intervals!

    tom
  • 2X1.5 mile completed this morning.  Takes more concentration with the 1.5mile than with just 1 mile. More realistic to a true 10K type feeling.  Hit both intervals just a little under TP.

    TP=6:20

    1st 1.5 mile = 9:28 (6:18)

    2nd 1.5 mile = 9:26 (6:16)

    I'm looking forward to Friday's workout

  •  did 2x1.5 as well.  Half mile warmup and then got to it as I was dreading it a bit.  First one was at a 6:21 pace and the second at a 6:13 pace.  Intervals did not feel all that hard.  Here is the total run:


    Entire workout (6:53 min/mi):

    Duration:   49:07

    Work:       n/a

    rTSS:       81.2 (0.95)

    NGP: 6:46 (237.6 m/min)

    VI:         n/a

    Pw:HR:       n/a

    Pa:HR:       n/a

    Distance:   7.044 mi

    Elevation Gain:     1093 ft

    Elevation Loss:   1052 ft

    Grade:     0.1 %  (41 ft)

    Min Max Avg

    Speed:       3 11.6 8.7 mph

    Pace         5:11 19:42 6:53 min/mi

    Altitude:     266 456 350 ft

     

  • 2 x 1.5 miles at TP (6:10). First one was 6:11, second was 6:10. Just hard enough without being too hard!  image 

    Nice work all.

  • 2x1.5 miles at TP (8:02) was more like IP (7:36) with 4' in between.

    #1 7:37
    #2 7:34

    Legs felt great. was surprised by the first interval and then wanted to hang onto it for the second.
  • Posted By CoachP on 11 Nov 2009 08:47 AM

     Just hard enough without being too hard!   



    Speak for yourself!  Those were tough. 

    10 min @ 7:45

    2x1.5mi ;6:39, 6:50

    total of 6.24 miles @ 7:27 all in the VFFs. 

  • Hmm, guessing the advanced peeps have a different run set-up? I had 3x .5 mi, then 1 mi @TP. Woke up to the tap-tap-tap of rain on the window. Put my short and tee on under long pants and rain jacket in case I decided to bag the outdoors and run to the gym instead, but the rain remained nothing more than a slight drizzle (and I'm loving my new Army ten-miler baseball hat as a rain visor).

    I like the half-mile intervals followed by one mile - the half miles are short enough to feel easy(er) but then the legs feel satisfyingly dead by the final mile interval. What was hard was sitting on my 8:02 TP/Z4 pace, as I'm used to running the summer's 2-3mile repeats at Z4/5, which has usually settled at sub-8. I'll have to get my legs to "remember" the 8 minute pace. So the .5 miles were 8:09/8:20 (dont' know what happened there- combo of running into traffic and a Garmin dead spot I think)/8:03 and then the 1 mile was 8:04. The last interval was 7:50 until the last .2 when I ran out of road and had to head straight up a hill.

  • I think I have the same schedule as Suzanne above (3 x .5 mi, then 1 mi @TP)

    Just trying to keep up with all the bad a@%ses on this team.  Woke up this morning with a bit of an attitude problem and had to reach for "The Stick."   I am sure that had something to do with yesterday's quality 3X8 session. 

    Interval 1 - 6:57 - .5 mile

    Interval 2 - 6:36 - .5 mile

    Interval 3 - 6:56 - .5 mile uphill

    Interval 4 - 6:49 - 1.0 mile uphil

    6.0 miles total - 7:45 pace

    I know the 1.5 miles are much tougher.  I may try'em out next week and see what happens.......  Thanks for sharin the mojo....it's helping.  SS

     

  • After reading everyone's comments on the EP I realized I was doing the same thing. My EP is 9:26 but I would routinely run them around 8:30 or so because it felt better. Decided to drink the Kool-Aid and actually run at the proper pace today.

    TP = 7:36

    3x.5 miles
    7:37
    7:40
    7:35

    1x1 mile
    7:42

    Felt great. Need to get my pup a little quicker so I don't need to pull her as much. I am fat enough so don't need an additional 65 lbs to drag around. Though to her credit was got back and was looking for my wife to go back out running and I was cooked.

    All in 5.2 miles on some rolling terrain.
  • Mr. Stark,

    Will try to catch up with you next week and battle through the 1.5s.  Looks to me like you fought the battle well this moring,  especially considering yesterday's performance on the 3X8s.  Thanks for passing the good vibes my way, it definitely helped this morning.

    SS

     

     

  • The Int. plan was 3 x 1/2mile and 1 x mile.

    How long have I been at this???? Didn't look at the Vdot before I left, and (incorrectly) assumed the 5K pace was what I should run. Too fast, now that I look at it.

    TP miles for me should be 8:22, based on a Vdot of 39. I ran

    7:34, 7:34, 7:36

    7:52

    That is incorrect, and will rectify next time!

    Linda

     

     

     

     

  • Posted By Shaughn Simmons on 11 Nov 2009 11:03 AM

    Mr. Stark,

    Will try to catch up with you next week and battle through the 1.5s.  Looks to me like you fought the battle well this moring,  especially considering yesterday's performance on the 3X8s.  Thanks for passing the good vibes my way, it definitely helped this morning.

    SS

     ____________________________________

    Always glad to be an athletic supporter.  DOH!   

     





     

  • I had a great run this morning. 2 miles easy and I had absolutely no discomfort in my hip. I've run a few times over the last couple weeks with no pain, but I've had a lot of tightness. That seems to be gone! Still proceeding with caution but the PT is working and I'm hoping to be able to do a 5k test at the 8 week mark.

  • Congrats all on getting your groove on this morning with your run intervals!! I love the bad attitude comment and needing to pull out the stick!! Classic and made me giggle.

    @Matt Sullivan- YEAH for no pain!!!
  • I nailed my run as well.  Wasn't sure I had it in me as I haven't really run hard in a while, but I thought about how many of you crushed and I got it done.  The perfect weather helped as well...

    Int 1:

    Duration: 8:30

    Work: n/a

    rTSS: 17.1 (1.071)

    NGP: 5:26 (296.3 m/min)

    VI: n/a

    Pw:HR: n/a

    Pa:HR: n/a

    Distance: 1.502 mi

    Elevation Gain: 252 ft

    Elevation Loss: 281 ft

    Grade: -0.4 % (-29 ft)

    Min Max Avg

    Speed: 3.3 16.8 10.6 mph

    Pace 3:34 18:13 5:39 min/mi

    Altitude: 797 888 826 ft



    Int 2:

    Duration: 8:25

    Work: n/a

    rTSS: 17.4 (1.085)

    NGP: 5:22 (300.1 m/min)

    VI: n/a

    Pw:HR: n/a

    Pa:HR: n/a

    Distance: 1.499 mi

    Elevation Gain: 214 ft

    Elevation Loss: 206 ft

    Grade: 0.1 % (5 ft)

    Min Max Avg

    Speed: 5.6 20.5 10.7 mph

    Pace 2:56 10:44 5:37 min/mi

    Altitude: 795 839 815 ft

     

    Forerunner305 [Run]:

    Duration: 55:02

    Work: n/a

    rTSS: 86.9 (0.926)

    NGP: 6:17 (256.2 m/min)

    VI: n/a

    Pw:HR: n/a

    Pa:HR: n/a

    Distance: 8.386 mi

    Elevation Gain: 1366 ft

    Elevation Loss: 1362 ft

    Grade: 0.0 % (5 ft)

    Min Max Avg

    Speed: 3.3 20.5 9.1 mph

    Pace 2:56 18:13 6:34 min/mi

    Altitude: 786 888 819 ft

     

  •  congrats to everyone....ahhh...so lucky to be suffering!! on the couch day 4 with the flu precludes me from doing anything but channel surfing...checking forums again must mean I am on the up...

    have fun during those workouts!!

     

    JC

     

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