Knocked out the main set @97% for the 24 minutes then another 23 @ 86%. The last 4x30/30 was tough.
Looking for some advice about this weeks workouts. I have my daughters Christening Sunday so there is no way my wife will allow to workout that day, that and I will be up late watching the Eagles play. So I was wondering should I forgo the Friday rest day and move up the weekend workouts one day or should I try to knock out both Wednesday and Thursdays workout tomorrow and rest Thursday? I think I can do them both back to back tomorrow as last week I didn't find the wednesday run too taxing. Any thoughts?
Just to clarify, I'm reviewing my notes from last season as well as my old emails during the hack
30/30 recovery was at 60%. the 2+ mins segments were as easy as needed to make the next ON.
Why the change? I can't imagine holding 60% coming off 2-4 mins of 120%.
You're correct. I meant the "recovery" in the set. The time between is do as you please to recover fully. Pointed that out in the other post, but forgot to here. Have ammended. (Typing too fast, and think people can read my mind.)
I should have read all these posts before I rode. Died this morning. Still sick and congested and even dizzy coming out of the 30 on. Just barely recovered then the final set of four I had to rest a full minute before I wasn't dizzy. Finished the ride with NO Zone 3 after but did 10 min brick and felt decent. Next time I feel low I'm reading the incredible work you guys ll do so mine seem easier
If it were me, I'd skip the rest day on Friday and do Sat bike on Friday. Depending on how fried I felt, I might drop the brick run. That's a lot of work in a row. Then do Sun run on Sat. That way you get Sun and Mon as recovery days.
I also skipped Sunday's run this week and did it on Monday. You might think about that.
Finally, I'd also run it by the coaches in the I need feedback on this week thread.
Good luck and enjoy the christening, and the Eagles too. I hope for you they play better than last week.
If it were me, I'd skip the rest day on Friday and do Sat bike on Friday. Depending on how fried I felt, I might drop the brick run. That's a lot of work in a row. Then do Sun run on Sat. That way you get Sun and Mon as recovery days.
I also skipped Sunday's run this week and did it on Monday. You might think about that.
Finally, I'd also run it by the coaches in the I need feedback on this week thread.
Good luck and enjoy the christening, and the Eagles too. I hope for you they play better than last week.
Dave
Thanks Dave, that is some good advice. I will run it by them as well. The Eagles certainly can't play any worse, I hope.
Stepped up a bit to 10x1'/1' on mine today....seemed ALOT more difficult, especially without the 2' breaks between sets. Hats off to the studs and studdettes doing 2.5' x 4 ! 375/180w for 10- 1'/1' reps, followed by 30' at 240w...89% for the hour. Files showed 308w for the 20' total of reps/rest...COOL ! Accomplished the run after, about all I can say about that.
@Chris G -- I can't imagine jumping right into those 30/30 reps without only 30 seconds of warm-up!
It takes this old engine at least 10-15 minutes of warm-up before it can do anything remotely hard!
My usual warmup routine is after a minute or 2 to do the last 30 seconds of the minute around FTP which I repeat a few times and then do a couple of minutes easy before starting any longer FTP intervals. What I did this morning was really just to start that way but a little harder and then continue. Bottome line was that I promised my 6 year old that I would take her to the bus stop and I had to get the work in with the time I had.
I think I was typing too fast and may have confused some peeps.
Example of 30/30 are 120%/60% with 2' recovery between sets as ez
During the hack last season we were doing things like 2.5' @ 5min power (approx 120%) and 2.5 EZ as needed. So during the set we had no recovery targets. We would have 5 min ez between "rounds" of 2.5' or 3' ect
Its my understanding that the 60% is needed to keep the HR up during the rest portion of 30/30, if the HR drops too far we'll actually never get back to the Vo2Max during the "on" portion.
By extending the "on" portion of V02 Max (2.5 - 4 mins) we don't have to worry about the HR and power getting back up to the Vo2max range since the we're hammer for so long.
I think I was typing too fast and may have confused some peeps.
Example of 30/30 are 120%/60% with 2' recovery between sets as ez
During the hack last season we were doing things like 2.5' @ 5min power (approx 120%) and 2.5 EZ as needed. So during the set we had no recovery targets. We would have 5 min ez between "rounds" of 2.5' or 3' ect
Its my understanding that the 60% is needed to keep the HR up during the rest portion of 30/30, if the HR drops too far we'll actually never get back to the Vo2Max during the "on" portion.
By extending the "on" portion of V02 Max (2.5 - 4 mins) we don't have to worry about the HR and power getting back up to the Vo2max range since the we're hammer for so long.
Am i mistaken? Thoughts?
I'm quite sure the prime directive in the power hack was to keep the "off" portion--even when doing 2.5/2.5 at 60%. I double check wiht my DH tonight who helped put the hack together. Maybe P will check in in the interim. But I'm quite sure that was it...Gee, how memory fades.
The deets were listed in 3/2/09 email under the power protocal paragraph. They are as I described, I was basically just wondering if something had changed between then and now kinda thing...
Anyway, I've side tracked this thread enough (sorry bout that)
I've got my Vo2 Max stuff tonight, and did my run at lunch along with 40 other people hitting the treadmills for the first time ever
Its expontential harder as well to hold the on. Anything over 90'" for the "on" gets really really hard. Like stare at the computer and beg the clock to speed up hard.
I thought I was the only crazy who yelled out loud at the stupid clock to speed up (like I thought it would actually help)
I think I was typing too fast and may have confused some peeps.
Example of 30/30 are 120%/60% with 2' recovery between sets as ez
During the hack last season we were doing things like 2.5' @ 5min power (approx 120%) and 2.5 EZ as needed. So during the set we had no recovery targets. We would have 5 min ez between "rounds" of 2.5' or 3' ect
Its my understanding that the 60% is needed to keep the HR up during the rest portion of 30/30, if the HR drops too far we'll actually never get back to the Vo2Max during the "on" portion.
By extending the "on" portion of V02 Max (2.5 - 4 mins) we don't have to worry about the HR and power getting back up to the Vo2max range since the we're hammer for so long.
Am i mistaken? Thoughts?
I'm quite sure the prime directive in the power hack was to keep the "off" portion--even when doing 2.5/2.5 at 60%. I double check wiht my DH tonight who helped put the hack together. Maybe P will check in in the interim. But I'm quite sure that was it...Gee, how memory fades.
I had a discussion with StinkyHelmet about this last year during the PowerHack and he also said it was key that the off portion was exactly 60% and to also try to stay as close to 120% for the work as possible and not try to over do it. Not that anyone I know would go harder then the workout calls for
My 30" ON wattage never brings my HR up very high even at the last interval. I might get up to 157-158 bpm whereas my HR pushing my FTP is 163 bpm as I recall. I'm doing 120%+ of FTP with my ON intervals. Do you also realize a lower HR with these VO2max intervals than a prolonged FTP interval? I am keeping my OFF wattage at 60%, which is very challenging in the waning intervals of sets 3 and 4.
I just want to make sure I'm pushing my VO2max/body system as I'm supposed to for this. My first session last week I pushed 450 watts instead of 120% but reallyl took a break every 30".
Well, my workout today was interesting. Did the 30/30's and was dying, but that's what I pay good money for right? Anyway, as this is my first IM that I'm training for, I have been very psyched, excited, scared, yet mostly psyched. Until this morning....I'm cranking out my 30/30's and all of a sudden it hits me...I'm training for an IM! OMG! How on EARTH am I gonna do this? It was like all of a sudden, a wind gust of fear and doubt blew in and nearly knocked me off my bike! It was soooo weird!!! Have any of you had this happen prior to your first IM ? This is truly the first time I've had that gut-wrenching feeling!! Made me pedal all the harder, so I'll get stronger and faster! Then, little Miss Idiot (me) mis read the brick workout and instead of doing LP/Z1, I did TP for 10 min. with 5, 30 sec. strides in there to boot!!! ARGHH! As I stumbled off of the treadmill back to the locker room, I was a bit light-headed, to be sure, but I have made it through yet another long, school day! Now I'm off to Pilates Reformer session! I'll be sawing some ZZzzzz's tonight!!! Well done everyone! May we all sleep like babies tonight!
The deets were listed in 3/2/09 email under the power protocal paragraph. They are as I described, I was basically just wondering if something had changed between then and now kinda thing...
Anyway, I've side tracked this thread enough (sorry bout that)
I've got my Vo2 Max stuff tonight, and did my run at lunch along with 40 other people hitting the treadmills for the first time ever
Hayes, I had to chuckle at your final comment about the 40 other people on the treadmills for the first time ever!
When I went to the Y this morning to do my workout before school, the parking lot looked like Walmart on December 24th!!!!! Oh well, should last only about a month. It usually does...Just sayin'...
It's easy to get caught up in the 'how the hell am I going to do an IM thing?' There were a few times during my build up to my first and only IM that I wondered aloud how was I going to do it.
Have faith in the plan and take it one workout or even one interval at a time know that each one is preparing you for the big dance.
wow, what a great day for the group. Been gone for a week visiting family and drinking every bottle of wine in sight, its great to be back!!!! I also wish I had read the thread before plowing through todays workouts. For me, I was at the 4 x 5 x 30/30 crew although I am VERY intrigued by the 2.5's. For me I think I blew it on both ends -my "on's" were all at 140% min and some were 150%+ which resulted in my "offs" being at 50-60% (mostly below 60). So looks like I've got some adjustments to make.
I also think I may have missed something - seeing alot of references to sat's bike. Do we have a 3 headed dog coming at us??? Is this another holy crap day? need the info..
Great job folks. Got me itching to getting it going on thurs.
My 30" ON wattage never brings my HR up very high even at the last interval. I might get up to 157-158 bpm whereas my HR pushing my FTP is 163 bpm as I recall. I'm doing 120%+ of FTP with my ON intervals. Do you also realize a lower HR with these VO2max intervals than a prolonged FTP interval? I am keeping my OFF wattage at 60%, which is very challenging in the waning intervals of sets 3 and 4.
I just want to make sure I'm pushing my VO2max/body system as I'm supposed to for this. My first session last week I pushed 450 watts instead of 120% but reallyl took a break every 30".
------
I'm in the same area where my 30/30 HR is lower that some FTP intervals. I have not watch that closely but today's 30/30 max was 165 while I can get in to the high 160's or low 170' on the long FTP intervals.
I see the caution was not to go over 120% does this mean I need to push the rest interval a little more (currently rest interval is around 65% or 130 watt, FTP is 201).
Posted By Gordon Cherwoniak on 05 Jan 2010 07:47 PM
Posted By Vince Hoffart on 05 Jan 2010 05:47 PM
Matt,
My 30" ON wattage never brings my HR up very high even at the last interval. I might get up to 157-158 bpm whereas my HR pushing my FTP is 163 bpm as I recall. I'm doing 120%+ of FTP with my ON intervals. Do you also realize a lower HR with these VO2max intervals than a prolonged FTP interval? I am keeping my OFF wattage at 60%, which is very challenging in the waning intervals of sets 3 and 4.
I just want to make sure I'm pushing my VO2max/body system as I'm supposed to for this. My first session last week I pushed 450 watts instead of 120% but reallyl took a break every 30".
------
I'm in the same area where my 30/30 HR is lower that some FTP intervals. I have not watch that closely but today's 30/30 max was 165 while I can get in to the high 160's or low 170' on the long FTP intervals.
I see the caution was not to go over 120% does this mean I need to push the rest interval a little more (currently rest interval is around 65% or 130 watt, FTP is 201).
Gordon
I'm definitely not an expert on this and haven't planed any attention to my heart rate in two years.... however, my assumption is that because you heart rate increase lags behind the actual effort, during a 30 second interval their is no way to got it to go up to 120%, and if you did get it to go up to 120% you are probably actually working much harder than you should be.
If you are doing these with a power meter I would just ingore your heart rate. I know for power 120% on and 60% is what I have seen many many times in the forums here and it worked well for me.
If you are doing these by HR, I believe there were some thread in the 3.0 forums that discussed how to do this. If you can't find them I suggest you start a separate thread about how to do them based on heart rate and I'm sure some folks can give a much better answer than I can.
i also played around with my sets today. i missed the weekend workout and tried to do it yesterday. didn't go so well. legs had no pop so i cut the 2nd FTP set into 2 x 7' and then couldn't hold any z5. just ended up riding lightly. today was much better. ended up modifying to 1 x [2 x 2'/2'] (2') 1 x [4 x 1'/1'] (2') and then did just 10' of 87%, when the legs started feeling tired again. sometimes i feel that the day off really locks up my legs for some reason. my worst workouts are after a day off.
I like your modified workout. I've been contemplating trying the 4x2:30s on Thursday but was feeling a bit intimidated by the big duration jump from the 30/30s. Your formula sounds like a sensible way to ease into the longer reps. With your permission I shall give the Halligan Custom V02 Workout a try and report back.
Comments
Looking for some advice about this weeks workouts. I have my daughters Christening Sunday so there is no way my wife will allow to workout that day, that and I will be up late watching the Eagles play. So I was wondering should I forgo the Friday rest day and move up the weekend workouts one day or should I try to knock out both Wednesday and Thursdays workout tomorrow and rest Thursday? I think I can do them both back to back tomorrow as last week I didn't find the wednesday run too taxing. Any thoughts?
You're correct. I meant the "recovery" in the set. The time between is do as you please to recover fully. Pointed that out in the other post, but forgot to here. Have ammended. (Typing too fast, and think people can read my mind.)
I should have read all these posts before I rode. Died this morning. Still sick and congested and even dizzy coming out of the 30 on. Just barely recovered then the final set of four I had to rest a full minute before I wasn't dizzy. Finished the ride with NO Zone 3 after but did 10 min brick and felt decent. Next time I feel low I'm reading the incredible work you guys ll do so mine seem easier
Hayes, the 2 minutes in between are not @ 60% as you indicated. Just the 30' recovery.
Dave
Tucker,
If it were me, I'd skip the rest day on Friday and do Sat bike on Friday. Depending on how fried I felt, I might drop the brick run. That's a lot of work in a row. Then do Sun run on Sat. That way you get Sun and Mon as recovery days.
I also skipped Sunday's run this week and did it on Monday. You might think about that.
Finally, I'd also run it by the coaches in the I need feedback on this week thread.
Good luck and enjoy the christening, and the Eagles too. I hope for you they play better than last week.
Dave
Thanks Dave, that is some good advice. I will run it by them as well. The Eagles certainly can't play any worse, I hope.
375/180w for 10- 1'/1' reps, followed by 30' at 240w...89% for the hour. Files showed 308w for the 20' total of reps/rest...COOL !
Accomplished the run after, about all I can say about that.
My usual warmup routine is after a minute or 2 to do the last 30 seconds of the minute around FTP which I repeat a few times and then do a couple of minutes easy before starting any longer FTP intervals. What I did this morning was really just to start that way but a little harder and then continue. Bottome line was that I promised my 6 year old that I would take her to the bus stop and I had to get the work in with the time I had.
I think I was typing too fast and may have confused some peeps.
Example of 30/30 are 120%/60% with 2' recovery between sets as ez
During the hack last season we were doing things like 2.5' @ 5min power (approx 120%) and 2.5 EZ as needed. So during the set we had no recovery targets. We would have 5 min ez between "rounds" of 2.5' or 3' ect
Its my understanding that the 60% is needed to keep the HR up during the rest portion of 30/30, if the HR drops too far we'll actually never get back to the Vo2Max during the "on" portion.
By extending the "on" portion of V02 Max (2.5 - 4 mins) we don't have to worry about the HR and power getting back up to the Vo2max range since the we're hammer for so long.
Am i mistaken? Thoughts?
I'm quite sure the prime directive in the power hack was to keep the "off" portion--even when doing 2.5/2.5 at 60%. I double check wiht my DH tonight who helped put the hack together. Maybe P will check in in the interim. But I'm quite sure that was it...Gee, how memory fades.
The deets were listed in 3/2/09 email under the power protocal paragraph. They are as I described, I was basically just wondering if something had changed between then and now kinda thing...
Anyway, I've side tracked this thread enough (sorry bout that)
I've got my Vo2 Max stuff tonight, and did my run at lunch along with 40 other people hitting the treadmills for the first time ever
I thought I was the only crazy who yelled out loud at the stupid clock to speed up (like I thought it would actually help)
oh the clock speeds up.....once we hit the rest portion - time flies by
@Hayes..... You are soooooo right.
Yelling definitely helps!
I had a discussion with StinkyHelmet about this last year during the PowerHack and he also said it was key that the off portion was exactly 60% and to also try to stay as close to 120% for the work as possible and not try to over do it. Not that anyone I know would go harder then the workout calls for
Matt,
My 30" ON wattage never brings my HR up very high even at the last interval. I might get up to 157-158 bpm whereas my HR pushing my FTP is 163 bpm as I recall. I'm doing 120%+ of FTP with my ON intervals. Do you also realize a lower HR with these VO2max intervals than a prolonged FTP interval? I am keeping my OFF wattage at 60%, which is very challenging in the waning intervals of sets 3 and 4.
I just want to make sure I'm pushing my VO2max/body system as I'm supposed to for this. My first session last week I pushed 450 watts instead of 120% but reallyl took a break every 30".
Vince
Then, little Miss Idiot (me) mis read the brick workout and instead of doing LP/Z1, I did TP for 10 min. with 5, 30 sec. strides in there to boot!!! ARGHH! As I stumbled off of the treadmill back to the locker room, I was a bit light-headed, to be sure, but I have made it through yet another long, school day! Now I'm off to Pilates Reformer session!
I'll be sawing some ZZzzzz's tonight!!! Well done everyone! May we all sleep like babies tonight!
Hey Barb,
It's easy to get caught up in the 'how the hell am I going to do an IM thing?' There were a few times during my build up to my first and only IM that I wondered aloud how was I going to do it.
Have faith in the plan and take it one workout or even one interval at a time know that each one is preparing you for the big dance.
Dave
wow, what a great day for the group. Been gone for a week visiting family and drinking every bottle of wine in sight, its great to be back!!!! I also wish I had read the thread before plowing through todays workouts. For me, I was at the 4 x 5 x 30/30 crew although I am VERY intrigued by the 2.5's. For me I think I blew it on both ends -my "on's" were all at 140% min and some were 150%+ which resulted in my "offs" being at 50-60% (mostly below 60). So looks like I've got some adjustments to make.
I also think I may have missed something - seeing alot of references to sat's bike. Do we have a 3 headed dog coming at us??? Is this another holy crap day? need the info..
Great job folks. Got me itching to getting it going on thurs.
It took some advanced algebra, but I modified the workout to look like this:
2x(5x30/30) (1.5' rest)
3x1/1 (1.5' rest)
1x2/2' (3' rest)
I made sure to do 60% after the 2' @ 120% before I did the rest set.
I wasn't ready to take the plunge of 10x1', 5x2', or 4x2.5, so I eased into this making sure I include the rest.
Felt good and was able to hold the numbers throughout.
20' @ 85% was even more manageable tonight until my kids came in with 10' left.
Dave
@ Chris G -- It's amazing what a little extra motivation can do.
I'm definitely not an expert on this and haven't planed any attention to my heart rate in two years.... however, my assumption is that because you heart rate increase lags behind the actual effort, during a 30 second interval their is no way to got it to go up to 120%, and if you did get it to go up to 120% you are probably actually working much harder than you should be.
If you are doing these with a power meter I would just ingore your heart rate. I know for power 120% on and 60% is what I have seen many many times in the forums here and it worked well for me.
If you are doing these by HR, I believe there were some thread in the 3.0 forums that discussed how to do this. If you can't find them I suggest you start a separate thread about how to do them based on heart rate and I'm sure some folks can give a much better answer than I can.
Hope that random rambling helps
1 x [2 x 2'/2'] (2')
1 x [4 x 1'/1'] (2')
and then did just 10' of 87%, when the legs started feeling tired again. sometimes i feel that the day off really locks up my legs for some reason. my worst workouts are after a day off.
V
Vo2 maxed out....crushed myself. Had to take a couple of 6"-10" roll down breaks....
Entire workout (192 watts):
Duration: 1:05:03
Work: 748 kJ
TSS: 76 (intensity factor 0.837)
Norm Power: 218
VI: 1.14
Pw:HR: n/a
Pa:HR: n/a
Distance: 20.841 m
Hey, Dave--
I like your modified workout. I've been contemplating trying the 4x2:30s on Thursday but was feeling a bit intimidated by the big duration jump from the 30/30s. Your formula sounds like a sensible way to ease into the longer reps. With your permission I shall give the Halligan Custom V02 Workout a try and report back.
-Chris