@Joseph, you can leave the wheel cover on the bike. They just don't except solid rear wheels. They have no issues with the plastic covers and I have shipped my bike with the covers for years.
@John, I did the IMCDA to IMLou last year (9 weeks apart). By my public school math, Texas and Placid are 10 weeks apart. If you give yourself 2 weeks of recovery and 2 weeks of taper, that gives you 6-ish weeks of good training. That scales slides with your own desired/needed recovery/taper periods. A couple of thoughts:
- Anything is "doable", however, I suspect that you'll want high performances out of both races. You have high expectations for Texas and I'm betting on you to pull off a great race. That being said, don't discount the effort that a good recovery will take on the back end if you smash yourself in Woodlands. It took me almost three weeks on the back end of CDA before I was mentally and physically prepared to throw down on a workout (and I didn't take myself to a bad place at CDA).
- Last summer was crazy hot for us around here. I'm suspecting that it will be that way again this year. Last year in my Louisville build, I was doing long runs at 0300 to try to get quality work in. The weekend rides, although starting at dawn, were still finishing around 95+ degrees. Bottom line, the heat will impact your second build. Include that in your calculus.
- Make sure this isn't a seat of your pants decision. By posting this here and on the dashboard, its obvious that you're putting some thought into it. I would just say, especially since Texas will be your first IM (if I remember correctly), ensure you have a reason beyond, "Hey, that sounds cool*" to double down that quickly without personal knowledge of down stream effects.
Bottom line, I'm very confident that you CAN. The more important questions are the 'why' and 'should'. I really think that you are the only one that can answer those two questions.
*Caveat - "That sounds cool" is a large part of why I got into endurance sports / my current line of work in the first place. Don't take that the wrong way
@John- That's awful close and I would say it all depends on your goals. If it's your B race and you just want to compete/participate with no real expectations I would say go for it. That gives you a good two weeks to recover another two weeks to maintain and two weeks to taper. Heck, you'll be certainly fit for it!
I did two IM's in a year in 2008 but mine were far apart: IMAZ in the Spring and IMFL in the Fall. Never really quit training.
3000yds completed this morning split up a variety of ways...of 400's & 300's...finished with 5x50(15') hard...and cooldwon.....
May sound goofy...but swim has been coming along and finally feel like I'm swimming...now I'm not as fast as many of you fish...but clearly it seems as you go faster it gets easier...probably because the increased speed through the water aid your stability?...anyway...pretty satisfied so far....would love to do 5k!...was that as a single set straight?
There is a swim-a-thon coming up sponsored by my local tri club ...you can choose to do... 25x100, 50x100, 75x100, or 100x100 (your supposed to get donations/pledges per 100)...I was thinking of giving a go at the 50 or 100x100 (theres no time limit placed on your set...but I would try to do as many as possible on 30 sec. average rest ...)...anybody ever done anything like this?...Thoughts? Its scheduled for a Rest Sunday following a Saturday RR?...thoughts?
@John - I have to concurr with most of the commentary...it certainly is doable...doing LP doesn't help IMTX....it can only add fatigue and possible diminish your potential max effort at TX....like anything else in life...I think you can only do one at peak or two at some level below peak....so it really depends on your goals/expectations....
Thanks everybody for the input. I really value your thoughts and insights. I think I'm going to pass on IMLP. Today's Wko was a blast and hard as hell. Did TRs Gilbert which is 4x10 at FTP with a slow build after 5 minutes to 115 percent of FTP. Followed that up with brick run z4/3 x10 minutes followed by 10 minutes @z1
You can tell we only have 6+ weeks left everybody is in the pool.
@ Tom 5000yds continuous? Wow! Also good to know about TBT disc covers , did you have them on the wheel? Just loose so they could run a strap thru?
@ Joe so awesome to hear your swim coming along. I havent done a swimathon buy my local YMCA has had a few lately and I just noticed the flyer on the door. Havent looked into it yet. Last year a buddy of mine was turning 65 and his birthday ended up being on a day we swim together. We were both training for IMMT but it was pretty close. Originally I wanted to do 65 x 100 with him.... After I did that math I reduced it to 65 x 50 in 65 minutes... much easier and realistic had a blast and finished in 65 minutes.
@JK As others have said you can most certainly do IMLP. In fact there is quite a bit of theory that sometimes you are actually better off having the two IM's closer together rather than farther apart.... Its more of a recovery from IMTX and then a maintenance mode, no rebuild etc.... and then another taper... I certainly wouldnt expect too much though. I'm doing 3 this year IMTX, IMMT, IMFL and they are almost exactly 3 months apart.... IMTX is the "A+" race , IMMT and IMFL I will race but expectations will be lower.
Good long endurance swim today. 4500yds total.. 500wu , 6 x 500 all 7:30 or less very happy with this , 1000 PB,fins, back , breast cd
As I didn't do last week's long run as assigned, I'm just now noticing the instructions for this week's run. Sorry to be last to the dance. My long-winded thoughts for tomorrow's race pace run:
135 total time with MS: 2 x (25' @ z1/LRP/Easy, 25' @ z2/MP/Steady) with 5' recovery.
Coach Notes: Race Prep Long Run -- Alternating intervals at (z1/LRP) and above (z2/MP/Steady) your goal race effort. Do the standard EN run warm up and then drop into the Main Set. IF you feel GOOD, you can run the z1/LRP intervals between 10" and 30" faster per mile. IF you are TIRED, then go z1/LRP so you can hit the z2/MP work. Recovery intervals MUST be at z1/LRP only.
This year's long run race prep run has changed significantly since last year's version. I like this version much better because we still get an opportunity to run faster/harder than we expect to during our race. If you are like me (some are and I know others are not), you have a 5k VDOT that is higher than your longer run (HM or Marathon VDOT). I'm looking at 54 and 50 respectively (as confirmed last weekend, which was part of the reason behind doing a half marathon 6-ish weeks out, thanks Al T). My recent half marathon confirmed my going in position for my IMTexas run goal (absent any heat adjustment that I'll do prior to the race with the help of the EN heat pace calculator and the Woodlands forecast). Bottom line, my starting point for the IMTexas run is my Easy Pace for my half marathon VDOT, which is a ~8:30 minute mile (NOT the 8:00 mile my faster 5k VDOT gives me). I also know that my game day 8:30 target will probably increase (get slower) once I adjust for heat. So what this means is that while the majority of my run paces and interval assignments during the OS and the build are based on my 5k VDOT, for the long runs specifically intended as "race pace" runs and for my Race Rehearsal runs, I'll be using my HM VDOT paces.
I know that some of you have similar VDOTs across multiple distances and this whole post is meaningless to you, however, I can run a 5k @ a much much faster relative pace than I've been able to replicate at longer distances. (I've been doing 3 mile run tests twice a year for 22 years for work, so I've gotten relatively decent at them) I also know that there is no way I can hold my 5k VDOT EP for a ironman marathon run. So for me, I adjust specifically for these type of specific training sessions. YMMV and good luck!
@Roy--this is my first EN race so I don't have a basis to compare as you do but I've been flat amazed at my run improvement through this cycle. I'm a bit slower than you and will race at 9:30 but love the fact I can adjust up and down now. I didn't have that in my arsenal in the past. It was all or nothing.
Good post and thanks. BTW...it's been beautiful and 70 here in Atlanta for the last four days. Of course, tomorrow is going to rain like hell and drop in the low 40s. Sheesh!
@John....start slammin the Zicam ....if you haven't already ...recover quickly!
Long Run this afternoon...similar boat as Roy...but frankly think I have always run my long runs as Negative Split out and backs Z1/Z2 or as simply Fast Finish runs...finishing 3-6 miles @ Z2-Z3 (as possible)....
Concurr with you Roy...I think my 5k/HM vdot spread is 49-51 or 50-52...and will definitely be using the easy pace from the lower vdot as target race pace.
Big Day today 5hr bike at .74 with 4 x 20 @ .80 and 6 x 25 @ .75+ , followed it up with 7 mile brick run 56min flat.
Headed to Tucson tomorrow for 6 days , no bike for a week , but I'll get my runs , swim , and a couple extra rest days. Picking it up again with on 4/13 with another big bike workout , and getting pumped up for the final push.
Keep it going everybody , stay healthy (JK) , and motivated , the clock is not slowing down!
@John-- bummer but take the time to get better instead of training through it. I've made that mistake and never really fully recovered. Zicam is solid advice.
I'm doing Friday's workout today (swim) as we got another blast of cold and rain here in ATL. Geez...enough. I can't complain though...you guys up North are dealing with a lot more weather than I ever dream of.
Weekend is coming up and I actually have Sunday off...can't wait. I'll be in Belize for work next week and 90 degree days all week. Can't wait to run in the heat and I've already got a place to swim and ride (spin bike) worked out with my local office.
Thanks guys. Felt the cold coming on earlier in week but beat myself up on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning. Think it finally caught up to me. Not worried about missing today's long run as I've already put in at least 5 runs between 2 and 2.5 hours. @ Tim, have a good trip. Great workout today. What TR Wko was that?
Holy bohovits Tim! WTF??? I felt good about my run til I got back and saw that INDOOR 5 hour ride. Now I feel like I need to go back outside and run some more.
Anywho, me with my little 2:13 run with 16.5 total. w/u +2 (25 min @ EP (8:30) and 25 min @ MP (7:15)) + c/d. I originally planned to stretch out my usual route and see some new territory but the sky started looking sketchy, so I stayed close to the office and did lots of little laps around stuff. Got old quick. The last 25 minute set of MP was challenging but got it done. While my previous post stated that I 'liked' this year's version of the race prep long run and that statement remains true, its a lot tougher than last year's race prep long run. Hopefully that will pay off on race day.
@ John - focus on getting better and DO NOT come back til your body is ready. You've got a ton of fitness, what you need now is a healthy body. Stay the course!
Roy...nice job...I was happy with my run until I read your not...now I feel like I was slackin'!
I took off early from work because it was so nice I didn't want to miss out on the opportunity for my long run...I ran mine as just a single progressive long run...well below Z1 (8:32)..but not quite Z2 (7:12)...but I will be shooting for 8:30 pace at TX so this is just about right....16 mile/7:55avg as a progessive long run...never felt so easy...out 8 miles @ 8:10 avg (8:23,8:18, 8:11,7:59,8:05,8:12,8:07,8:06)..back 7:45 (8:11,8:05,7:55,7:49,7:42,7;33,7:23,7:20)....Starting to believe in myself again...just in time for TX
Good Morning...the swim workout description caught me off gaurd this morning...I hadn't peaked ahead...LOL..anyway ..I did 2950 Yards Total....No Warmup stright into 2250 (1:51 Note: good for me)) / 1x200Pull / 1x200Hard /200mixed cooldwon...
Afternoon run is TBD...see how I feel...a nice weather weekend means good riding ahead!
I tried every excuse in the book to not go swimming, however, in the end, I forced myself to go to the pool. As with most workouts, it turned out ok once I got there. I went with the assigned w/u, 2200 yards (38:20 / 1:45) and cool down. Going to hit the sack early and get ready for this weekend.
John, I'm going to hit Prince William Forest Park for Saturday's ride (and Sunday as well since last weekend was a zero for cycling for me). With kid activities, I usually start riding between noon and one. Hit me with a text tomorrow morning if you want to hook up either day. 502-759-0061.
Got my first 18 miler in. 7:10 pace and felt great the whole way. Starting to feel pretty good about the run. Lots of consistent running this year is paying off.
@Tom. Nice run. Feeling same way about my run especially compared to last year. @Roy. No can do. My kid activities are in the afternoon this weekend. Seems to vary every weekend. When/ where you doing next weeks RR?
Well it's freezing out and I don't have time to wait. Looks like I have a date with the trainer. I think I'll try Disaster on TR. everybody have a nice training ride
4 hours @ NP 208 and IF .78. Pretty uneventful ride with 4 simulated climbs at 90-100of FTP. Plus one fall off the trainer. Yes that's right I managed to crash while on trainer. Left rib a little sore
@John....Nice ride ....Hope you were wearing your helmet!
3:52 @ 164NP/.78IF/avg HR131/18.1mph avg with alot of wind & 2k of climbing....capped it off with 4miles/32min. of Z1-Z2 running...
Today was nice but still a bit chilly ..especially with the wind...tommorrow is supposed to be even nicer may get to actually ride in shorts (or at least knee warmers!)
Comments
tom
Legs took a while to warm up this morning so I only got 3x10 in (out of a planned 4). 0.96, 0.96, & 0.95. Time to get the day started!
Keep on it everyone.
- Anything is "doable", however, I suspect that you'll want high performances out of both races. You have high expectations for Texas and I'm betting on you to pull off a great race. That being said, don't discount the effort that a good recovery will take on the back end if you smash yourself in Woodlands. It took me almost three weeks on the back end of CDA before I was mentally and physically prepared to throw down on a workout (and I didn't take myself to a bad place at CDA).
- Last summer was crazy hot for us around here. I'm suspecting that it will be that way again this year. Last year in my Louisville build, I was doing long runs at 0300 to try to get quality work in. The weekend rides, although starting at dawn, were still finishing around 95+ degrees. Bottom line, the heat will impact your second build. Include that in your calculus.
- Make sure this isn't a seat of your pants decision. By posting this here and on the dashboard, its obvious that you're putting some thought into it. I would just say, especially since Texas will be your first IM (if I remember correctly), ensure you have a reason beyond, "Hey, that sounds cool*" to double down that quickly without personal knowledge of down stream effects.
Bottom line, I'm very confident that you CAN. The more important questions are the 'why' and 'should'. I really think that you are the only one that can answer those two questions.
*Caveat - "That sounds cool" is a large part of why I got into endurance sports / my current line of work in the first place. Don't take that the wrong way
I did two IM's in a year in 2008 but mine were far apart: IMAZ in the Spring and IMFL in the Fall. Never really quit training.
3000yds completed this morning split up a variety of ways...of 400's & 300's...finished with 5x50(15') hard...and cooldwon.....
May sound goofy...but swim has been coming along and finally feel like I'm swimming...now I'm not as fast as many of you fish...but clearly it seems as you go faster it gets easier...probably because the increased speed through the water aid your stability?...anyway...pretty satisfied so far....would love to do 5k!...was that as a single set straight?
There is a swim-a-thon coming up sponsored by my local tri club ...you can choose to do... 25x100, 50x100, 75x100, or 100x100 (your supposed to get donations/pledges per 100)...I was thinking of giving a go at the 50 or 100x100 (theres no time limit placed on your set...but I would try to do as many as possible on 30 sec. average rest ...)...anybody ever done anything like this?...Thoughts? Its scheduled for a Rest Sunday following a Saturday RR?...thoughts?
@John - I have to concurr with most of the commentary...it certainly is doable...doing LP doesn't help IMTX....it can only add fatigue and possible diminish your potential max effort at TX....like anything else in life...I think you can only do one at peak or two at some level below peak....so it really depends on your goals/expectations....
Good work everyone!
Today's Wko was a blast and hard as hell. Did TRs Gilbert which is 4x10 at FTP with a slow build after 5 minutes to 115 percent of FTP. Followed that up with brick run z4/3 x10 minutes followed by 10 minutes @z1
@ Tom 5000yds continuous? Wow! Also good to know about TBT disc covers , did you have them on the wheel? Just loose so they could run a strap thru?
@ Joe so awesome to hear your swim coming along. I havent done a swimathon buy my local YMCA has had a few lately and I just noticed the flyer on the door. Havent looked into it yet. Last year a buddy of mine was turning 65 and his birthday ended up being on a day we swim together. We were both training for IMMT but it was pretty close. Originally I wanted to do 65 x 100 with him.... After I did that math I reduced it to 65 x 50 in 65 minutes... much easier and realistic had a blast and finished in 65 minutes.
@JK As others have said you can most certainly do IMLP. In fact there is quite a bit of theory that sometimes you are actually better off having the two IM's closer together rather than farther apart.... Its more of a recovery from IMTX and then a maintenance mode, no rebuild etc.... and then another taper... I certainly wouldnt expect too much though. I'm doing 3 this year IMTX, IMMT, IMFL and they are almost exactly 3 months apart.... IMTX is the "A+" race , IMMT and IMFL I will race but expectations will be lower.
Good long endurance swim today. 4500yds total.. 500wu , 6 x 500 all 7:30 or less very happy with this , 1000 PB,fins, back , breast cd
get after it everybody the clock is ticking
As I didn't do last week's long run as assigned, I'm just now noticing the instructions for this week's run. Sorry to be last to the dance. My long-winded thoughts for tomorrow's race pace run:
135 total time with MS: 2 x (25' @ z1/LRP/Easy, 25' @ z2/MP/Steady) with 5' recovery.
Coach Notes: Race Prep Long Run -- Alternating intervals at (z1/LRP) and above (z2/MP/Steady) your goal race effort. Do the standard EN run warm up and then drop into the Main Set. IF you feel GOOD, you can run the z1/LRP intervals between 10" and 30" faster per mile. IF you are TIRED, then go z1/LRP so you can hit the z2/MP work. Recovery intervals MUST be at z1/LRP only.
This year's long run race prep run has changed significantly since last year's version. I like this version much better because we still get an opportunity to run faster/harder than we expect to during our race. If you are like me (some are and I know others are not), you have a 5k VDOT that is higher than your longer run (HM or Marathon VDOT). I'm looking at 54 and 50 respectively (as confirmed last weekend, which was part of the reason behind doing a half marathon 6-ish weeks out, thanks Al T). My recent half marathon confirmed my going in position for my IMTexas run goal (absent any heat adjustment that I'll do prior to the race with the help of the EN heat pace calculator and the Woodlands forecast). Bottom line, my starting point for the IMTexas run is my Easy Pace for my half marathon VDOT, which is a ~8:30 minute mile (NOT the 8:00 mile my faster 5k VDOT gives me). I also know that my game day 8:30 target will probably increase (get slower) once I adjust for heat. So what this means is that while the majority of my run paces and interval assignments during the OS and the build are based on my 5k VDOT, for the long runs specifically intended as "race pace" runs and for my Race Rehearsal runs, I'll be using my HM VDOT paces.
I know that some of you have similar VDOTs across multiple distances and this whole post is meaningless to you, however, I can run a 5k @ a much much faster relative pace than I've been able to replicate at longer distances. (I've been doing 3 mile run tests twice a year for 22 years for work, so I've gotten relatively decent at them) I also know that there is no way I can hold my 5k VDOT EP for a ironman marathon run. So for me, I adjust specifically for these type of specific training sessions. YMMV and good luck!
Good post and thanks. BTW...it's been beautiful and 70 here in Atlanta for the last four days. Of course, tomorrow is going to rain like hell and drop in the low 40s. Sheesh!
Good luck today everyone!
Good lock everyone
@John....start slammin the Zicam ....if you haven't already ...recover quickly!
Long Run this afternoon...similar boat as Roy...but frankly think I have always run my long runs as Negative Split out and backs Z1/Z2 or as simply Fast Finish runs...finishing 3-6 miles @ Z2-Z3 (as possible)....
Concurr with you Roy...I think my 5k/HM vdot spread is 49-51 or 50-52...and will definitely be using the easy pace from the lower vdot as target race pace.
Have a great day all.
Headed to Tucson tomorrow for 6 days , no bike for a week , but I'll get my runs , swim , and a couple extra rest days. Picking it up again with on 4/13 with another big bike workout , and getting pumped up for the final push.
Keep it going everybody , stay healthy (JK) , and motivated , the clock is not slowing down!
I'm doing Friday's workout today (swim) as we got another blast of cold and rain here in ATL. Geez...enough. I can't complain though...you guys up North are dealing with a lot more weather than I ever dream of.
Weekend is coming up and I actually have Sunday off...can't wait. I'll be in Belize for work next week and 90 degree days all week. Can't wait to run in the heat and I've already got a place to swim and ride (spin bike) worked out with my local office.
@ Tim, have a good trip. Great workout today. What TR Wko was that?
Anywho, me with my little 2:13 run with 16.5 total. w/u +2 (25 min @ EP (8:30) and 25 min @ MP (7:15)) + c/d. I originally planned to stretch out my usual route and see some new territory but the sky started looking sketchy, so I stayed close to the office and did lots of little laps around stuff. Got old quick. The last 25 minute set of MP was challenging but got it done. While my previous post stated that I 'liked' this year's version of the race prep long run and that statement remains true, its a lot tougher than last year's race prep long run. Hopefully that will pay off on race day.
@ John - focus on getting better and DO NOT come back til your body is ready. You've got a ton of fitness, what you need now is a healthy body. Stay the course!
Keep trucking everyone. We're getting close..
Tim is CRONKIN'! on the trainer...awesome man.
Roy...nice job...I was happy with my run until I read your not...now I feel like I was slackin'!
I took off early from work because it was so nice I didn't want to miss out on the opportunity for my long run...I ran mine as just a single progressive long run...well below Z1 (8:32)..but not quite Z2 (7:12)...but I will be shooting for 8:30 pace at TX so this is just about right....16 mile/7:55avg as a progessive long run...never felt so easy...out 8 miles @ 8:10 avg (8:23,8:18, 8:11,7:59,8:05,8:12,8:07,8:06)..back 7:45 (8:11,8:05,7:55,7:49,7:42,7;33,7:23,7:20)....Starting to believe in myself again...just in time for TX
Good Morning...the swim workout description caught me off gaurd this morning...I hadn't peaked ahead...LOL..anyway ..I did 2950 Yards Total....No Warmup stright into 2250 (1:51 Note: good for me)) / 1x200Pull / 1x200Hard /200mixed cooldwon...
Afternoon run is TBD...see how I feel...a nice weather weekend means good riding ahead!
for TBT, wheel covers are on the bike wheel. No need to bag separately.
Enjoy your Friday everyone!
@ Roy. Are you riding outside this weekend? If so when and where? Maybe we can meet up
John, I'm going to hit Prince William Forest Park for Saturday's ride (and Sunday as well since last weekend was a zero for cycling for me). With kid activities, I usually start riding between noon and one. Hit me with a text tomorrow morning if you want to hook up either day. 502-759-0061.
Time to get working on the long bike ride!
@Roy. No can do. My kid activities are in the afternoon this weekend. Seems to vary every weekend. When/ where you doing next weeks RR?
@John....Nice ride ....Hope you were wearing your helmet!
3:52 @ 164NP/.78IF/avg HR131/18.1mph avg with alot of wind & 2k of climbing....capped it off with 4miles/32min. of Z1-Z2 running...
Today was nice but still a bit chilly ..especially with the wind...tommorrow is supposed to be even nicer may get to actually ride in shorts (or at least knee warmers!)