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IMAZ Accountabilty - What Workouts Get You To The Start Line

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  • Feeling fatigue on the bike-barely kept it above .95% IF on yesterday's drainer wko. But legs felt great on run today. Only got 70min instead of 90 but did the 2 15min z3 sprints at z4. Planning to make up the time on tomorrow's run.
  • Gearing up for the Big Day tomorrow. Got nutrition ready, Garmin charged, bike set up and gear ready to go. Starting at the pool at 6am. Anyone else starting early?
  • @David, funny I always feel a funk around mile 75. I've noticed this in every race rehearsal and ride I've done over the past couple years. Its weird. Now I know its coming to I can prep for it, and mental through it, usually lasts 5 miles or so, then I get a second wind. 

    @Betsy, some weeks are harder than others, and I find too that some weeks the bike legs are tired, and some weeks its the run legs, usually not both at the same time, thank goodness. It doesn't make sense to me, but I'll take it! Good Job Lady!

    @Danielle, yup gearing up, I'll wait probably till 7am to do an OWS at the lake down the road. Still, trying to get it all done early so I can still do some chores around the house in the afternoon. 

    Having a great running week, hitting all the speed work and hill work on target. Legs are sore, but somehow they come back each day. Had a great run on Thurs morning, workout called for 115 min run with 1x15' @z2 and 2x15' @ Z3. Hit the paces right on and finished the last 5 miles halfway between z1&z2 pace. 15 mi in 1:54:47. My fastest long run yet!!! 

    After tomorrow, I'm sure I'll be needing the day off on sunday!  

    Good luck on your Big Day WKO everyone!!!

  • BTD done!
    3200 meters
    62 miles at .725 IF
    6 miles with a negative split
    Felt good on the run even though it was close to 90 degrees here in Texas!
    Looking forward to a day off tomorrow
  • BTD almost done. Im going to swim now-pools didn't open until 6, and I wanted to be out before that. And didn't get the swim done last night as I had to make a little nod to the Yom Kippur holiday and go to temple. I chose to train today and not fast, as it would be a miserable day tomorrow to train after a fast (did it once before).

    Bike-66 miles, IF .733. If felt so good to be out on the IMAZ course after too many pain cave sessions. I did two loops starting at Shea and turning around at McKellips/McKlintock-leaving off the 6 mi loop into tempe and back (traffic), then added a little loop at end to make 4 hours. Lots of peeps out on the course!

    Run-5.5 miles negative split. I needed to make a loop around my finishing point to get the last .5 but the temp was 97 and I was out of water and nutrition-the horse saw the barn and was done!
  • BTD done here too!!! I extended my time on the bike and the run to even out my miles. Here is what I did:

    3000m swim
    70mile bike
    7 mile run

    It was a very windy day here in VA and the temps were very chilly during the bike, but when I got to the run I felt great. Stopped at 7 miles on the run, but could have gone much longer. So glad I was able to do it!!!
  • @steve....I too am looking forward to a day off tomorrow as well image
  • Betsy, love that saying "the horse saw the barn and was done". Lol! Great job on your BTD!
  • Great job to both Danielle and Steve on BTD. And I must say I am jealous of your swim posts!
    I will be Lucky to do 2400 in an hour. I have worked very hard the last two years to learn t
  • (Oops-my fingers fumbled and didn't get to finish post)
    I've worked hard to learn to swim-acquiring technique but no speed yet. Very frustrating!
  • Today 2.5 mile point-to-point ocean swim; IM pace
  • Sweet, Sweet Sunday off! More time to cook and eat!

    Great job to everyone on their big swims or BTDs!!!

    Yesterday was good weather for my BTD. Started @ 8am with OWS: 3000m ~52', which felt really good, slipped into the zone after 20' or so and just swam. The bike was okay, I started dragging by ~3hrs, which could have been not enough breakfast, too much hard running in the week, switching to hammer gel (no caff) from cliff shot gels( 1x caff), or all of the above. My nutrition was normal intake: 24oz of Perform and 2 gels an hour ( 420cal/hr), maybe I need to bump up my Perform intake more. Ended the bike with 70 mi in 3:40. Drank some coke and water before the run, which perked me back up for the run. Did 6mi in 47', took 20oz of Perform and 10oz of coke on the run (~300cal). Called it good at 6 mi, since I new I was basically running on empty. Negative split the run, which was good. 

    Enjoy the rest day!

  • @ Rian ... your improvement over the past year has been impressive! I doubt that too few calories was the issue on the bike, considering how well you ran afterwards. More likely, you paced the bike just a bit too hard for the length of time you were riding? Reviewing your power #s, like TSS and IF and VI might give you a clue about that.

    Nonetheless, keep up the pressure on yourself during the next 4-6 weeks, you've got a chance to do really well @ IM AZ.

  • Rian-I second everything Al says! It sounds like you will have an awesome race!
  • Rian, solid BTD! I agree with Al & Betsy, with those outputs you should do really well at IMAZ! Great job!! Feel free to send some of that bike and run mojo over here to me in VA...I'm testing tomorrow on the bike and hoping for some good numbers! image.

    Ps. Enjoyed my very (unrelaxed) day off...so much to do around the house when I'm not training image
  • @Al, Betsy, Danielle: Thanks gang! So good to get a little pep talk from people who 'get' it. The thing I love most about EN!

    Al, re: power, good point! I haven't offloaded my data yet, but yes thinking about it, I would not be surprised to see I was on the high end for the first loop of my ride. I'll review for sure. Thanks!

     

  • Nice work everyone; Rian is a machine!

    5 hr cycling today on my AZ-like route. Nutrition and hydration feeling good with stomach and legs. Went well except for last 30min as air temperature spiked up the 99 degrees. That melted me. Lots of cold drinks and a tasty bean, cheese and steak burrito made for a nice recovery from the melting fatigue during that last phase of the ride.
  • @Rian, I suggest you plan on more perform or at least do a sweat test to confirm (per nutrition stuff in wiki). Note not super happy with hammer b/c of lower sodium than powerbar gels, so maybe you supplement a bit. Also, why no caffeine? I drink 2 cups a day and when I race, I am all caffeine gels all day...helps me gradually build it up and get me mentally ready for when things get really mentally tough!

    Nice work everyone!!!
  • Hey Folks,

    Can anybody fill me in on the AZ bike course, I understand it's relatively flat. Looking at the bike course elevation gain map,its hard to get a sense of the climb. Does anybody know the (%) grade, or opinions on the perceived stress factor of the climb? Are the roads smooth? Any other details would be great, just trying to mentally prepare...Thanks Mike
  • @Mike: The outbound trip is very gentle uphill (call it false flat) from the T1 all the way to the last oh say 5 miles before the turnaround where it steepens to a more noticeable climb in a couple steps ~ 2%. Its not bad at all, in fact in a sick way I like it because it makes it easy to stay steady on power. You will pass lots of people. As I recall I averaged ~15-17 out and 23-25 back. I haven't ridden the roads this year, but last year more than half the loop (out of town section) was newly paved with asphalt, super smooth! In town, you make multiple turns on typical street surfaces, there are a few bumpy areas, but for the most part its a smooth ride. They typically close down one lane all the way, and the riders split the lane, so there is lots of room to pass and ride safely with out worrying about cars. Aid stations are very well placed: bottom, middle, and top of the loop, lots of opportunities to refuel. The one factor about AZ that is always unknown is wind. Once you get out of town, the landscape is wide open, and in the desert as the day heats up so does the wind, so out there you are fully exposed. You will likely be experiencing an increasing wind in one direction throughout the day, although somedays it flips directions in the afternoon, and it has a long time to work on you. Don't get frustrated with it if it happens, just ignore it, keep to your zones, and know everyone else will be burning themselves out trying to compensate for it. You do it the EN way, and you will be getting faster throughout the day, while everyone else flames out. 

  • @Patrick. Thanks Coach! Yeah I agree, I need to up my perform hourly intake and watch my salt, will work on that over the next few weeks. 

    Last year I was doing 30oz Perform per hour, but its been cool here and hard to take in that much. Truth is I switched to using hammer, just because it comes in big bottles instead of hundreds of tiny packs, and I can get it at the bike shop vs. ordering online. I do like using the flask for gels instead of stuffing a dozen gels in my bento and fumbling with them while riding. 

    My understanding on caffeine was it was better to save it for later in the day, when HR starts to taper off and you need to bring it back up, but then again, I've been doing 2 cups of coffee in the am and 1xcaff gels on all my rides and runs, which have been really good, so maybe I shouldn't fix what wasn't broken.  

  • Bike Test done today and I have to say I was rather discouraged with my outcome image. It was cold(45-50 degrees) and windy this morning when I set out at 8am. Did a good 20 min warm up then proceeded to race (like I was racing a sprint tri) for 40 minutes. The course was relatively flat, with a few false flats thrown in there to make me work. I don't know whether it was the cold, wind or what but my HR never got over 150 and I was pushing as hard as my frozen feet could push. I'm discouraged because if this test determines what my HR zones are for training & racing, my mph in Z2 & Z3 is going to suck (pardon my French)...it's going to take me 8 hrs to complete the bike portion of IMAZ! Everyone I've ever talked to that has done an IM says how important it is to pace the bike, I just can't imagine it would take me 8hrs since my avg HIM bike split is between 2:45-3hrs.

    Help!
  • @Danielle: DONT PANIC!  Yes HR & mph may disconnect for lots of reasons. Cold, wind, fatigue, etc. 150 is low for all out effort, so it tells me there was a big disconnect -> throw away test.

    1st: We have a long way to go to IMAZ and ( I think) 2 more tests, plenty of time to get it right. 

    2nd: As an HR athlete your are trying to match HR to Perceived Effort so that you can moderate your effort appropriately, so you really should take into account all of your recent rides as a whole to make that match-up: look at avg hr in your z4 efforts in workouts as they should be close to ftp. You should have some idea of where your max threshold is after all this training time, so you can make a ballpark calculation off of that. Or for training purposes you can also ball park it off of run hr by subtracting ~10bpm from your run zones (BALLPARK!) Run is usually higher by 10-15bpm than Bike.

     3rd: If you have HIM splits in the 2:45-3:00 range, no way no how are you riding 8 hours at IMAZ! Its flat and its fast. HIM pacing is 80-85 percent and IM pacing is 70-75 percent of FTP so I'd bet your looking at 6-6:30 hrs bike, or even faster. Remember its really about perceived effort: your shooting for 70%, to me thats not breathing hard at all, but not tooling along, just a strong steady effort that I can do all day.  

    4th. Dont Panic. You will be fit and ready! You will be fast and have a great race. One test is not a deal breaker. 

  • @Danielle, I'm with Rian, throw that test out. Doesn't sound like it is anything close to what you have been riding and are capable of riding. Sometimes you just have a bad day! And there is at least one more test, in week 18 I think.
  • Inserting the BTW option from week 10 into my plan this week. Work schedule, etc.. all came together perfectly to make this happen! Will finish out the BTW on Saturday with the full aqua bike at Redman followed by a 6 mile run. Targets for the next 5 days; swim 4.8 miles, bike 350 miles, run 22 miles! Hope to use the data collected to start building my race execution plan with some fine tuning based on the two RRs remaining. Today's 5 mile run and 62 mile ride felt great...hope I can say the same on Saturday evening!
  • I so needed this feedback guys, thanks!

    Rian, I think my frustration today shook my confidence and put me into panic mode. You are right, I need to take into consideration balancing perceived effort and HR. I will definitely go back and look at my past workouts.

    Also, thanks for the summary of the AZ course your posted above for Mike. It sounds like it's just that a fast and relatively flat bike course. On another note, what have been the typical weather temps for the day? My understanding is that it is quite chilly in the morning for the swim then gradually the temps get warmer throughout the day. After freezing my tail off this morning in Va I'm hoping this won't be the case in Tempe.
  • @Steve: Nice work man, that is a big week. Well Done!!!!

    @Danielle: We all have had to be talked down off the ledge during Ironman training! I've been there every single race, I guess its an occupational hazard! AND It is sooooo hard to have a bad test day after all that hard work and anticipation for getting new numbers, believe me, I know, I just biffed my bike test today too. If you know you had more in you and you didn't hit it, do your best to estimate what it should be and go for it. Its just a number, if its too much your body will let you know. 

    As for weather, last year Air temp was ~60F at 6am, and water temp was ~63F. Once you are suited up, temp was not an issue, and by the time you hit the bike, the sun is up warming things up. The high temp hit ~80F around 4pm. Last year winds were kind and we had light 5-7 mph breeze which made both the bike and the run pretty darn nice. Remember this is very dry air, so 80 feels relatively cool by comparison to a VA 80f, but can actually dehydrate you faster if you're not hydrating proactively. 

    Keep it up guys!

  • @ everybody: I live minutes from the IMAZ course and Rian did an excellent job in describing it and the weather-nothing to add. Except for the slow swimmers (me, sadly) my hands were useless in T1-I hadn't noticed them being cold on the swim though. Thank god for the helpers in T1

    @Danielle: Everybody's advice is sound. You will be fine. I have never broken 3 hours in an HIM and I did 6:40 last year. Hoping to be closer to 6 this year.

    Bike test today was OK-I do mine on the drainer as I would have to drive to the Beeline or the outskirts of town to get a route without stoplights-and not happening on a weekday for me! I ended up with the exact same FTP as I have had since end of JOS. I only did it by mashing the high gears standing the last 2 minutes. Maybe I will try that for 5 min next time.
  • Hi everyone! I just "introduced" myself in the other forum thread (not sure if I'm using the correct syntax here).
    I'm really psyched for IMAZ! Will be my first IM. Here's where I'm at right now with my conditioning and I would LOVE your feedback on where I'm at relative to my goal for IMAZ (see below) and what I need to work on and improve.
    Current FTP = 292; vDOT = 47.63 (both last tested in Aug, will do both tests again this week per the training plan); weight = 177; BF = 10.4; not sure what my W/kg is. Is it 3.64? Have seen others reference this but don't know what to do with it or what it means.
    I did my last HIM in 5:31, but raced at what I felt like I could do for an IM. Tried to imagine that I was doing the whole thing and felt that I was just cruising along. Made one mistake in my run (that I recognized and fixed in my BTD (see below)) that cost me about 10 minutes. My goal time was 5:20, so I felt like I was on track.

    BTD: Did this last Sunday for the first time. So much fun!
    Here were my results: Swam 4000m in 55 min. Took me about 30 minutes to transition to bike/run location. Biked 80 miles in just under 4 hours. Transitioned quickly and ran 6.5 in 1 hour. Was doing ok physically (was glad to be done, though) but was mentally fatigued. Did it solo so got a little lonely and felt myself drifting off pace or had my mind wandering from time-to-time. Would always pick it back up in short time, but hopefully this will not happen during my race (hasn't in the other races so not too concerned).

    GOAL FOR IMAZ: I know, it's my first IM so my goal should be to just finish and enjoy the experience. Done! Already looking forward to that. However, I am motivated by metrics and numbers and having goal times for things. That just seems to work for me. I know that the race day can present a ton of different scenarios, problems, and "Whoops, didn't expect that" type of things. However, I have set a goal time of 10:30 for myself that I have been gunning for since January. If I don't hit it, I'm okay with that. BUT, if I do hit it I will be excited because I managed to hit a goal I was pushing towards.
    Based off the numbers and info I'm sharing, is it reasonable for me to hit this goal time in IMAZ? If not, what else should I be working on in the next weeks to get there? Any feedback, opinions, info is VERY MUCH appreciated.

    Thanks in advance for your time and help!
  • Wolf ... Hi & Welcome.

    Commenting on your time goal - IM AZ is a very forgiving course, given its mild temperatures and flat bike route. So setting time goals does make a fair amount of sense. But rather than use a specific time, maybe a range would be better, so you can end up with a "win" in your mind afterwards.

    Based on your swim strength, bike w/kg (yes it is 3.64), and VDOT, 10:30 is within the range of possibility for you. But maybe it would be better to use the range of 10:45 +/- 15 minutes as your target? Once you have done the second race rehearsal with two weeks to go, you will have a much better idea of what you will be capable of in the bike and run, and can use a little more precision in your planning.

    In order to meet your time of 10:30, your bike is going to need to be a little bit faster than "80 miles in a little under 4 hours". 120 km in about 3:30-35 would be more in line. And with your size, getting a good run will be a challenge after 5+ hours on the bike, so race execution skills will be key for you: patience on the bike, precisely following power and pacing targets during the race as outlined in the EN racing strategy. You can do it, or at least get close enough that you will have continued motivation for improvement after the race, I bet. There is plenty of time in the next two months to hone your biking speed and your racing skills.

    For reference, five years ago, when I first did AZ, and did my PR there, my VDOT was 48.x, and I ran 4:03. My W/kg were about 3.6, and I biked 5:29.

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