Home Coaching Forum 🧢

Chris Oubre's thread

I'm running the Rock and Roll marathon in New Orleans on 2/2/14 and would like some guidance on my run training. My A race is Itonman Coeur d'Alene end of June

I've had a stress fracture in my metatarsal 18 months ago or so.

Here is my recent run history

1/8/14 treadmill run of 5 miles at 9 min pace

1/4/14 18 mile run @ 9:28 pace. Started at a 9 pace and tried to move to marathon speed at mile 10. My feet felt off all week (think I need new shoes). The pain in my feet made me stop and take several long walk breaks. HR ave 165, Max of 187. I've seen a HR of 203 before on my watch as a reference.

1/2/14 4.5 mile run @ 8:10 pace

12/30/13 2 mile run in Newtons at 7:20 pace followed by a 5 mile run in my regular shoes at 8:35 pace

12/21 15.25 miles @ 9:02 pace

12/15 12 miles @ 8:45 pace

11/30 8 miles @ 8:15 pace

11/28 5k race 21:13. 6:48 pace


I have a social commitment on Jan 18th so I cannot run on the 18th or much on the 19th
«134567

Comments

  • @Chris, no need to test (per my text to you) that 5k is close enough to count! As for your shoes, those need to get dialed in by this weekend AT THE LATEST. You can't delay on those at all. In the meantime you should load up the balanced marathon plan to end on 2/2. That will give you a distance for this weekend, and we can discuss that tomorrow.

    Also, check out Resources > Wiki > Running and look on that page for marathon pacing guidance...next week we'll want to start thinking about your pacing plan!
  • Not sure where to find the balanced marathon plan so I may just need a recommendation for this weekend's mileage.  Also can't see the Wiki yet in resources.

  • Due to lightning I missed my opportunity for a long run today.  I will do my long run tomorrow.  My question is: Since I've recently completed a FTP test (193 W) do I need to do the bike test today?  I didn't do a VO2 Max test.  That is the only thing missing.  I'm concerned about doing a bike test today, if I'm going to be running 20 miles tomorrow.  And if I do the bike test after, I may not be in top form.

     

    When do you need the VO2 max score?

  • I ran 20 miles per the marathon hack.  I was unable to maintain the requires pace zones.  My first 8 miles I was supposed to run an easy pace.  I could tell that my legs were not in it to win it then.  At the 8 mile marks I moved to my zone 3 pace.  It was really hard.  I was supposed to keep that pace for 10 miles.  I knew I wouldn't make it but I was going to try.  I run a 2 loop course. At mile 10 I stoped to get more water and accidentally hit my watch.  I stopped that segment and started another one.

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/429232311 (First 10 miles)

    I tried like the dickens to keep the zone 3 pace, but my heart rate was sky high.  After 4 miles I got tired of my watch telling me I was to slow and stopped that seggment and started another one

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/429232316  (Miles 10 - 14)

    I was then holding on by my fingernails.  Dug deep and pushed.  I had to walk twice and stop at a garden hose once.

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/429232319 (Mile 14 - 20)

    I'm not sure if I should be running to pace zones and heart rate zones.

     

     

     

  • @Chris, we don't need your VO2 number...the calculator does the math from your FTP to your VO2....the test personalizes that Z5 number, but it isn't required. You should be able to see the balanced marathon plan now....let's connect on that when you are ready!
  • I'm ready when you are.  when's a good time.  Do you want to to schedule something?  

  • I realized that I was using the wrong run plan. I found a marathon hack and used it. Oops. I have since found the balanced marathon plan. I should have watched the new member video sooner
  • @chris, no worries on the video. You can shedule with me anytime. My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann   -- Please remember to include your phone number. 

  • I did a swim test yesterday. My t pace is a blistering 2:22 / 100 m.

    I swam the first 400m with reasonably good form. I was able to breath on both sides and focus on my form. I felt relaxed. For the last 600m I was mostly breathing on one side. Felt slow. Glide was really poor. I felt stressed.

    I've noticed that if I swim superman style and just kick, I can lay on my lungs and float at the surface, butt in the air ( I could tell because it was cold). As soon as I switch to superman catch ups, I sink below the surface.

    The way my schedule has evolved, I may get to swim today. What workout would you recommend?

  • @Chris, you really never want to swim superman style -- I am taking this to be flat on your stomach. The drill you should replace this with is Kicking On Your Side....bottom arm extended out in front of you to 4pm on the clock dial. The focus here is getting your left hip and the relaxed left arm's hand that's laying on top of it (right arm underwater) out of the water. This is achieved by leaning in at the armpit of the right arm. It will be much easier when you are face down in the water vs when you turn your head to breathe...but that's the black belt level!....learning to balance here is better aligned with how you will swim (on your side) vs on your stomach.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-68aloRH-Io
  • Just wanted to pass this week's workout plan modifications by you. I am on week 9 on the intermediate HIM plan but have a marathon on 2/2

    Per your guidance I am limiting my runs to twice a week @ 30-45 min per run. I ran 4 miles yesterday and my IT band was tight after. Getting better though. The warm up and stretching helped a lot.

    Life has forced me to stay home tomorrow and Thursday mornings so I am planning to swap Wednesday's bike workout with tomorrow's run as I can do the bike workout on my trainer. I will drop the brick run. I am also planning to move Thursday's run to Friday.

    Not sure what to do with Saturday's run. I guess I'll just drop it?
  • Another question As I get tired when I swim, I lose the ability to breath on both sides. My heart rate rises and I lose form. What techniques could I use to calm my heart down without stopping?
  • @Chris, your mods sound good...and yes, drop that Saturday Run. Re the swimming, it's because your technique is failing as you tire. Break the intervals down. IOW, I would rather have you swim 20 x 100 well vs 4 x 500 where the last 300 of each 500 is bad. We need to reinforce good technique. If you don't have a nice "fixed" number like 200 yards..then swim until you can't bilateral breathe...stop...rest 5 or 10 seconds, and then continue to close out the interval (or until the next break).

    Don't let ^this^ approach get you down. The more quality swimming we can get it will go a long way to making you better come race day.

    That said, it couldn't hurt to look at the Swim eBook to see if you have any glaring inconsistencies!!! Resouces > Wiki > Swimming....
  • My marathon is in 10 days 2/2. I'll be on week 10 of the intermediate HIM plan next week. How should I modify it?
  • @Chris, you do the regularly scheduled plan through Wednesdays' bike/run...then Thursday is OFF...Friday is a short run of 30 minutes to stay sharp, Saturday is registration / OFF / 15' run only if you are insane...then you race. Please tell me you have looked at the pacing guidance in Resources > Wiki > Running....
  • I have looked at the pacing guidance. I've looked at my previous long runs and taking into account my IT band issues, and that I don't want to screw up my training after that, I've decided to shoot for an 8:30/mile average so
    8:45 for first 6 miles
    8:25 for 6-20 miles
    8:30 (just hold on) for last 6.

    Plan to alternate water and power aid at aid stations.
    Fuel with power-gel from a flask
    Watch heart rate
    Don't push so hard that my knee is done for at the end
  • @Chris...perfect. Enjoy...and please track it all (pace / HR) so we can review and learn!!!
  • I just finished my first marathon. Didn't meet my pace targets. Read the full race report I added to the forums. What I'd like to know is how to use that data to adjust my training pace.
  • @Chris, great race and some great early season learning re pacing, nutrition and pre-race planning. As Matt Aaronson noted, you want to really take the time to recover and do the self care now to be ready for the full year. www.athletestreatingathletes.com is a great resource...given the breakdown, you might want to focus on some core strength stuff as well...Resources / Wiki / Strength...say 2x a week...

    I don't think your VDOT really changes......
  • I struggle with following a specific swim workout. I am very far on the side of "form needs improvement". My ironman Texas swim time was 1:48. What I've been doing each workout is
    Get 45-60 min of swim time
    Start with a warm-up of
    50 x 4
    100 x 2

    Then I do 100's where each lap I
    - focus on one technique (one goggle out, arm entry angle, pressing lungs, light kick, naval to point at wall, engage chest on pull...)
    - bilaterally breath for as long as I can
    - rest liberally so I can focus on form each and every lap

    Near the end of my time I may do a 200x2 or 400 as a tester

    I use my ability to bilaterally breath as the limiter.

    When I try to think about fast or easy I lose form or over glide. If I push much beyond 100 or 200 I lose form and slow down drastically. For example when I do as described above I swim anywhere from 1:45/100 - 2:05/100. If I press and swim 1000m my pace dropped to 2:25/100

    Is there something else you would like me to do?
  • @Chris your focus on technique is rightfully placed. I would want you to make sure that you hit the Swim section of the Wiki and get the technique ebook so you know our drill progression.

    It's clear that body position is your number one issue. Anything you can do to "fix" that, learning what that feels like--and then learning to maintain that feel as you swim--is ideal!
  • From what I've read the race rehearsal 2 weeks out is the most important training day soooo...

    I'm doing IMTX70.3 and IMNO back to back. My plan is set to finish on IMNO. that puts my race rehearsal the week before IMTX70.3. What should I do?
  • @chris, I would bump the RR to a week earlier....so you do the RR 2 weeks prior to TX, then race TX then recovery for IMNO...personally, I would set the plan to end on TX for logistical purposes, then repeat the final week for IMNO!
  • Thanks. I have a question about heart rate. My heart rate zones are no where near my pace zones. In my long runs my heart rate is around 171-176. On my long bikes my heart rate is about 136-146. My resting heart rate is about 57-62. I haven't tested for my maximum heart rate. I've seen peaks from 190-200.

    How can I better determine my target heart rates? The calculator gidance doesn't jive with what I'm feeling on the runs.
  • @chris, the HR is the one you earn during your 5k test. So that 5k effort yields a time we can equate to your Zone 4 / Threshold Pace and an HR as well. Assuming you have done that right, it would seem to me that you are saying the other zones don't jive....and that's okay...they aren't supposed to (technically).

    If you are using Pace, I really only want you to run at your numbers (example 10 miles at 7:30 pace) and we'll see what the HR is. Over time you will get used to ^that^ HR and you can benchmark pace vs RPE, etc.

    Similarly, if you are training by HR, I want you in HR zone 4 and the pace will vary...but eventually that will dial in as well...

    Make sense?
  • Training plan question:
    Life has eliminated Monday afternoons from my realm of possible workouts from now till April.
    I'm on week 15 of the Intermediate HIM plan.
    My plan usually calls for just a swim on Monday.
    It may be possible but highly undesirable (high SAU) to swim in the morning

    How should I adjust my training week?
  • @Chris, swim is the lowest thing on our radar (unless you are in danger of drowning). Usually folks can make it up in the final 1-2 weeks before the race when it's taper time. I suggest you invest in some swim cords and do dryland work. It takes 10-15 minutes but can keep you on track!
  • Just wanted to let you know I had a good swim :-). I haven't been able to swim much farther than 300m in the pool without stopping. Today I ripped off 4 x 500m :-). I just had to slow down. My "long distance" pace is around 2:09/100m.

    I use a two beat kick but I find that when I slow my arm turn over, my hips drop because I don't kick as much. I tried 6 beat kicking but it tires me out much much faster.

    Not really enough time to work on balance drills with my Galveston and New Orleans coming up so soon.

    Just wanted to check in. Have fun this weekend. :-)
Sign In or Register to comment.