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Jan OS Week 14 Training

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    @Gilberto, I should have been more clear on this, I tried it the EN way today but was foiled by bad guts the last mile, it did look like it would have gave me about the same time. I need to go try the EN way at a race when I have someone to chase? I'm sort of frustrated right now, pretty sure I'm doing the right thing, fitness gains don't always follow a nice upward sloping line....especially after 6 hard weeks of vO2 work
    I hope everybody else's tests go well.
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    @Dan- I too usually start out fast and get slower as the miles tick off. I could explain it away with the first mile is all gradual downhill and false flat down hill, but the 2nd mile is the exact opposite and the 3rd is uphill to flat to down hill finish. But today I decided to try the EN way (as outlined by Mike Graffeo and now a wiki I believe). The result was that all the time I "saved" during the first mile never came back to me as reduced fatigue later on. So I was slower than my last test, almost by exactly the amount I "gave up" by trying to pace myself. So while this would make it look like my VDOT dropped, I doubt it. I know I am running faster this year than last.

    So I did my test but won't count it as anything other than a really hard work out. I too think I need a race to get the best result. (or else do it the way I always have and forget the EN pacing since I am not on a flat course)
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    Posted By Dan Gilliatt on 07 Apr 2010 12:02 PM

    @Gilberto, I should have been more clear on this, I tried it the EN way today but was foiled by bad guts the last mile, it did look like it would have gave me about the same time. I need to go try the EN way at a race when I have someone to chase? I'm sort of frustrated right now, pretty sure I'm doing the right thing, fitness gains don't always follow a nice upward sloping line....especially after 6 hard weeks of vO2 work

    I hope everybody else's tests go well.

    Dan it's not just the vo2 max stuff its 14 weeks of cumulative fatigue.  We are hammering ourselves pretty hard for this 20 week stretch.  You definitely have to watch the recovery and the gains are sometimes seen later after the transition when you get some real rest not just one day.  Having been with the NOV OS group I've seen man hit the tipping point including myself at least two times in the OS.  I'd also add that this is not just physical, but also mentally you have to be in the game to hit a good test as well.

    Gordon

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    I decided to go back to week 13 and start there today with a run.  I got 48' in and my achilles in my left leg was causing me some pain so I shut it down missing my last 1/2 mile.  I was to do 2X 1/2 (4:32; 4:24); 1X1 (9:00) ; 2X1/2 (4:15).  

    The last 1/2 mile at 4:15 was hard.  I was glad to be out there training again but my body still does not feel 100%.

    Gordon 

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    Take that road back to running nice and easy- it was a good idea to shut it down when things didn't feel right! Good job.

    I ran again today. 50 minutes of (slow) running. I almost (big emphasis on ALMOST) feel like my normal running self again.
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    All,

    I am sittin in my office anxiously awaiting my PM Vdot test and was reading through the messages.  I am not sure how well I will write this, but here goes.  I used to be a runner and in my youth, I would always go out fast and try to hold on in order to get that fast time.  It just seemed to be the runners way.  Now, some amount of maturity has taken over and i am racing a little smarter. 

    I will use what i hope to do tonight as an example.  My last test left me with an avg pace of 5:53.  Due to many factors, I am not sure that tonights is going to be that much faster.  My goal is to go 5:50's.  I am sure that I will be all amped up and when I hit the 1/8 mile mark I will be well below pace and I will really have to force my self to slow down.  I know that I could go out and drop some 5:40, but the resulting lactic acid build up and fatigue will likely leave me too fatigued to keep up with a resonable pace.   By resonable, I mean back to back 5:55's that just a few weeks ago were a few seconds away from my t-pace.  5:50, 5:50, 5:50, that is my goal.  I want to spread the fatigue and effort out as evenly as I can.  Honestly, I even try to do this during open 5k's.  More often than not, people will come back to you as they don't have anything left.  In most races I see, the successful people are the runs who best distribute the effort.

    Now I have patients waiting.    i will add more later if I can.

    Todd

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    good job everybody on your testing. !! sounds like good advice on the pacing.
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    @Nemo: nice, 50 min ! Good for you ! Your perseverence with your injury is impressive. Good job ! ! You will be back to your running self soon !

    Well I did my run test tonight and it was a true test. The last test I did was inside at the Y with the garmin and the foot pod and I always  question that test. So this test was definitly more real. It went well except I do what I always do unfortunately and start out way too fast and try to survived for 2 miles. Data to folllow but mile split were: 1 mile: 7:47 , 2 mile: 8:26 , and 3 mile: 8: 29..for a VDOT of : 38.2. Previous VDOT was 41 but like I said I questioned my 23:25 5k....Maybe someday

    I will take it. I might have done better in a real 5k, this one was done at the high school track on my own and of course if I would have paced better but it's ok. I will take it. It's more realistic then the previous test though I want a VDOT of  40 and above. It will come.. I will work hard for it in the next few weeks though I don't think we have another test..?? Maybe in basic month. I don't remember. If somebody does please refresh my memory..


    Forerunner305 [Run]:


    Duration: 25:01
    Work: n/a
    rTSS: 62.3 (1.174)
    NGP: 7:40 (209.9 m/min)
    VI: n/a
    Pw:HR: n/a
    Pa:HR: n/a
    Distance: 3.056 mi
    Elevation Gain: 761 ft
    Elevation Loss: 761 ft
    Grade: 0.0 % (0 ft)
    Min Max Avg
    Speed: 5:27 137:57 8:11 min/mi
    Altitude: 398 535 473 ft

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    re: vDot pacing, follow up...

    I was not aware of the EN way for vdot pacing, but will definitely take a look at that sometime.

    As one of you pointed out, this Vdot test is actually on the heels of lots of training that likely has been executed at a slightly, if not overtly, higher hammering level than recommended.  So, natural to feel a bit 'off' or to get a slightly slower time or no improvement.

    The good news, is that with proper recovery, you almost surely will see a jump in performance, as long as you don't blow the execution part.  In other words, don't be frustrated, the improvements are there.  just use the result as a sign to maybe tone down to recommended levels or recover more or both.

    If you want to avoid the sluggishness all together, then don't hammer over the recommended levels.  Keep to the jackdaniels vdot recommended pacing based on your vdot test, which RnP have likely already built into the training plan.   For example, when i go out for a t-pace run, based on my vdot, it feels really slow.  i can go faster...however, if i go faster, then i get fatigued by the end of the week due to a combo of overdoing it and not recovering properly.  On the other hand, if i keep to the assigned T-pace, I actually make it through all the workouts feeling really strong.  As the weeks tick by, i get to my next test fresher and recovered and am more poised to bump up the vdot.  I have tried this and it works.

    finally, if you are still reading, my advice for pacing for the Vdot is to focus on technique the entire time.  at the start, it's easy to maintain perfect form AND you actually are running fast.  By the middle of the test, it gets harder to hold perfect form and controlled breathing, but keep focused on form.   i am sure that at some point in your 2x1milers or 3x1miler workouts, you all have felt like crap at the last rep, but then turns out went faster or similar time to the first rep.   Well, same thing applies here, just keep perfect form.  By the last mile, it's all about holding onto that technique at all costs.    i have found that the pacing works itself out to even splits if you just focus on technique, like in swimming.

    speaking of which, gotta go swim before they close the pool!

    GH

     

     

     

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     From a running website:


    "There is evidence that competitive runners will usually perform better with a stronger start. Scientists at the University of New Hampshire studied 5K pacing strategy of eleven moderately trained women distance runners and found that the best performances were obtained when the athletes ran their first mile at between 3% and 6% faster than their average split times for the entire 5K race distance. Another study from South Africa that studied record breaking performances found that the first and last kilometers of most record breaking races were run significantly faster than the middle miles. Both of these studies seem to support the benefits of competitive runners running the first mile at a slightly faster pace.

    References:
     
    An analysis of pacing strategies during men's world record performances in track athletics, Int J Sports Physiol Perform, 2006 Sep;1(3):233-45
     
    The impact of different pacing strategies on five-kilometer running time trial performance, J Strength Cond Res, 2006 Nov;20(4):882-6"
     
    This is consistent with studies done in cycling time trials. It is contrary to how we actually CAN run and SHOULD bike in a triathlon, but that's not the issue here. So it may be true that letting all that adrenaline work at the start, and then powering home is the way to go for shorter stand-alone races (and VDOT time trials).
     

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    3rd day on WII fitness. smile. did the strength tng tonight and Yoga last night!! so tonight were pushups to plank, lunges, side leg lifts etc. this has added a bit of fun to fitness as the animation cracks me up. and I don't watch TV when DH outta town so this has been a nice change. scooting as my arms are still wobbly from the pushup/plank dealio
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    @Al - interesting.  I am going to see if i can pull the articles to give them a thorough read.  Thanks for the sources.  In looking at the numbers, i would suggest that if the second study is well done it would be important to stick to their "rules."  For example, if one was planning to go out and run a 5K at 6 minute pace, the faster first mile should only be 3-5% faster or 11-17 sec faster; not 20-25.  I wonder what determined the 3-5% range.  Are more fit people better equiped for the 5% versus us mortals @ 3%.  Looks like I have some reading to do.

    Now, on to the Vdot test.  The track I usually use, was hosting a meet so no go tonight.  I headed to a local park and with out much warm up I went at it.  The head wind really took its toll by the end.  The results are below.  I improved my Vdot to 56 and got my 5K under 18:00 again.(1 sec below) 

    I just recently updated to WKO+ and what I want to know now is what in the significance of the NGP?

    Todd

     

    Duration: 17:59                                                                                                                                                                                                                 rTSS: 35.8 (1.056)                                                                                                                                                                                                           NGP: 5:30 (292.3 m/min)  Distance: 3.091 mi   Elevation Gain: 445 ft Elevation Loss: 379 ft

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    @Todd- congrats on the Vdot upgrade: 56; you are one speedy dude!
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    @Nemo- 50 minutes... woot!  that's awesome news!

    @Nathalie - congrats on the bump! 

    I did my first track workout last night - at first it didn't seem like much (2x200, 2x400, 2x200) but I haven't been on a track in close to 2 years and it was darn HOT (89 degrees)... I had trouble staying in my zone... because I was too fast (closer to an 8:00 pace).   That's funny to me, but I suspect as the sprints get longer I'll be happy to stay closer to 8:18/mi... but looking at my data, I was very consistent with my sprints, so that's cool.  If this crazy spring-instantly-turned-summer weather holds up, I think I'll be back to my early morning routine fast!

    Congrats with everyone's tests!!!

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    @al: strong work to site references.  i feel like i am at work, except with data that is less interpretable (i.e. exercise physio vs. molecular biology).    the study i mentioned in passing is from a  2010 article from the international journal of exercise physiology, or something like that, that basically demonstrated that performance in well trained athletes is influenced greatly by conditions of the test.  The design of their study implied an ability to go beyond perceived limits when the finish was in sight vs. when far away or unknown.  I think both camps complement each other nicely for our purposes.

    the bottom line is that depending on your athletic background, you will execute the vdot test in the way that makes most sense to you.  For example, previously coached runners will likely start fast, since this is how track coaches prepare you to run (i.e. hold onto the pace setters early and then settle in).  Novice or uncoached runners will likely stay steady or finish fast.  Anyone will run faster if running with others.  How we execute the Vdot test will differ, but as long as we stay with the RnP plan it will work itself out.    Also, where it all counts is at the IM race itself, when we will hopefully all execute the race plan the same way.

    I have found that it all boils down to technique, all 3 disciplines, in testing and in training.  Once i cannot hold technique, i slow until i can and that keeps my pace steady.

    safe training to all!

    GH

     

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    took a rest day today so no tng and going hiking up a +(small) mountain with friends I haven't seen in awhile tomorrow. had to keep close eye on dog so stayed home and did housework. his paw now has bandage removed and many sores from when he chewed onhis bandage and got it wet. keepingointment on it and he licks that like Peanut Butter and how many times have I said "leave it!"... the dog drama.. without him my running buddy, it hasn't been the same! will take the dog with me and keep in kennel in car as cool in morning so I can check on him when I get off mt, (should take 1.5 hours of hiking and going with my endurance GFs.. some of my Original ones!) I find that once in the thick of IM training harder to connect with friends if they aren't doing IM so now is a good time for reconnecting as I need their support and of course love to see them. one lost her son to suicide 1.5 years ago and the other her husband to a heart attack one year ago... so ?? we just appreciate the fragileness of Life. I hope that you also are able to connect with friends ..... not sure what tack to take to get my arm and left leg in IM shape but while I dither... I can at least be active! this week? two aleve in a.m. and p.m. to see if that helps. same ol' problems so nothing new.. so won't bore you but I have not been doing the training but sure have enjoyed this group and happy for y'all who can do the training!
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    Resting a lot. Coming out of my huge down feeling, but still going to the doc in 2 weeks since I think I am walking a fine line with SOMETHING and need to figure it out.

    Congratulations on all of the VDOT bumps. You guys and girls ROCK!
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    Vdot: 52; up one point from january test.

    total:  distance: 3.11 miles; time: 19:16:34; avg pace: 6:12; avg speed: 9.7; max speed: 11.2;

    lap1: 1.0mile: 6:12:24; avg pace: 6:11; avg speed: 9.7; max speed: 11.1;

    lap2: 1.05mile: 6:32; avg pace: 6:14; avg speed: 9.6; max speed: 10.3;

    lap3: 1.06mile; 6:32:10; avg pace: 6:11; avg speed: 9.7; max speed: 11.2;

    pretty good.  i was going to skip it, but has given me some good INFO to move forward.

     

    G

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    Good effort on the testing by everyone.  There were some nice vdot bumps by the group.

    I took today off and will evaluate tomorrow as my achillies is feeling much better.  I will just bike if anything, perhaps a back to back bike friday and saturday as I move in to week 14 testing with Sunday off.

    Being sick and injury really throws off the schedule.  Not sure I can really call it injury, more like injury avoidance I hope.

    Gordon

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    did my brick yesterdary - got out for the jog before the big storm came through!  glad it's rest day, big brick tomorrow and the Cherry Blossom 10 miler Sunday... my first double digit run since October (an 18 training run before I decided the marathon just wasn't in the cards). 

    My hand is definitely getting there (seeing the doc next week), I think/hope I'll be able to ride outside in the next week or so - will wait a week (when Cherry Blossom festival is over) to give it a try at Hains Point - flat, bike friendly loop.

    I'm also thinking I may stick around in OS another 2 weeks and only do the last 4 weeks of HIM.  I'm swimming better than I thought I'd be, the biking and the running are coming along... that will give me one more run test (not testing on the bike since I don't have a PM), a week earlier than scheduled... so I can reap the benefits of the track work.

    Congrats to you all - your test numbers look great!  Happy rest day!

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    Excellent work everyone - toughing it out through injuries / illness, getting the testing done, and some seeing the fruits of all the hard work. I've continued to be buried at work, and am not maintining my training mojo. I started the FTP test twice this week on the trainer, but couldn't keep the focus. Maybe because I don't have an IM this year, I am letting myself make excuses ... I plan to run a 5K race tomorrow, but I am on the organizing committee. Will be at the venue at 5:30 AM for set up, and the race is at 8:00. I am mentally committing to nailing the race - hopefully the numbers reflect it! As for the FTP, I hope I can get outside next week and actually finish it. On a good note, I am down another 8 pounds, to 175 - a total of 18 since the start of the OS, and the first time consistently below 180 in a lonnnngggg time! (At least my W/Kg should be better!)

    @Marianne - You are so positive and balanced. Thanks for making me see and feel that "half-full" perspective!
    @Michelle - Hope you feel better soon, and that the Doctors visit is where you tell him "I am feeling great now."
    @Gilberto - Way to get the test done, and get a bump!
    @Becky - Like the new pic! Glad the hand is continuing to improve.
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    Mike, down 18 since OS - that is AMAZING! I need to drop about 10 to be back to normal and it's not going very well, but I'm getting faster so there's that...
    Good luck with work and getting your mojo for testing. Hope you nail the 5k tomorrow!
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    Good luck on the 5k Mike crush it
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    Good luck on the 5k Mike crush it
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    Mike- Hope that 5k is a lot of fun and you own the course!

    Took yesterday and this morning off. But I decided that I would try to swim after work if I wasn't tired. I need to get started soon enough. But being out of the pool for a year, I had forgotten how much "stuff" you need. I almost forgot my goggles and couldn't find the good ones. I did forget my cap and had to buy one. I can't swim without one. Finally got going and warmed up, lots of goggle problems. 1 pair fogging, the other leaking. Oh I forgot the joys!. I felt slow and decided that I would only swim 500 yards timed and not test. But I liked the time when I was done, so I switched goggles and did another 500. Much better than I expected.

    Probably going to buy a new trainer tomorrow as we both don't like the remaining one.

    Have a great weekend!
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    Thanks everyone for the encouragement! We had a beautiful day for the race - sunny, 50, over 500 racers! It was a fundraiser for the Society of St. Vincent DePaul, to support the needy in the area. I can't wait to hear the final totals, but I think it is the largest field we've had since the first year. 4:45 came early, but got up and out to the venue by 5:30 - I was the "sign man", so I had to get the roadside signs to enter the Forest Preserve, and then how to get to parking, packet pick up, race-day registration, start, etc., etc. All went well, and I was done by 7:00. Walked around, talked to friends, tried to get my game face on ... ran a mile to warm up, and then settled in at the start line - about 3 rows from the front - not too aggressive / overconfident, but enough to not get blocked! My target was to go for sub-20, shooting for a pace of 6:30 or less from the start. Gun went off, and settled right in to my plan. There was a group of about 30 - 35 runners that were in the lead in front of me, but my Garmin said the first quarter mile was 5:30 - felt great, but knew better! Settled into a steady rythm, and knocked out mile 1 in 6:06, w/ HR 183 - a bit faster than expected and HR was up there, but felt good, so stayed in the groove. Slowly picked off runners throughout the race, and never got passed. Mile 2 was 6:17 with HR up to 188, definitely on the edge of capacity, but still felt OK. Continued the same - passing people, definitely had to focus to not ease off. HR was up to 190 by the end of mile 3, which is my "max", and that mile came in at 6:25. I was ecstatic - no one closing on me, no one close enough to take out, but finished strong at a sub-6:00 pace! Final: 19:32 - a 23 second PR! Avg HR 183. 14th overall, 1st in my age group!! (M45-49) Woo Hoo! vDot dropped 4 points to 51!



    Thanks to EN and the Jan OS group for pushing and supporting me to a new peak!



    Hope everyone else's weekend is starting as well as mine did!

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    Nice work Mike very very strong
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    Mike: Thanks for sharing your triumphant race story; well done.
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    @Mike - nice results and a big PR

    I got in the ride today 4X5X30/30 with 2X10 and 1X8 @ 81, 82, and 83% respectively.  This ride did not feel great but I got in done. 

    Entire workout (151 watts):

        Duration:          1:16:33

        Work:                692 kJ

        TSS:                  85.9 (intensity factor 0.82)

        Norm Power:    180

        VI:                     1.2

        Pw:HR:             15.1%

        Pa:HR:              10.83%

        Distance:         20.837 mi

    Gordon

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     Mike - YOWZA!! - There's nothing like a super strong PR race to build confidence. Success breeds success, and you'll have this one in the bank to draw interest from at your next big event.

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