2016 IM WISC Aug 15-21 It's all about the bike
Ok everyone, It's time to get into this. I for one have not had the best week due to injury and life issues but time to pull it together for last couple of weeks. I wrote it is all about the bike because I think it time we start discussing the changes on the bike course. I just rode it this past weekend and I know I few of you did the week before. So let's bring it all out there. How about in addition to any training tails you want to discuss, how about we use this week to discuss any questions about the bike or our setups for the race. Just a thought.
I will start with the obvious, Barlow Hill. good news, it is only one time up. Bad news it is one bitch of a hill. I have not done it yet but it is steeper than any other hill on the Wisc course. Overall length has got to be close to Old Salk. As far as how to attack it, I am still thinking about my final plan but here are my observations. I will have a 27 rear cog on race day, but with my 25 I was going 3.7 miles/hour at about 325 watts trying not exert any force. Then standing putting the spurs to it, 400+ watts, I went about 5 -6 MPH for the steep section. Funny thing though My legs felt better standing and just getting up it. I know it will burn a few matches but I am leaning towards the later.
Gotta work, more later. And yes I hope to be a pest on the forums over the next few weeks
Comments
These are the notes I took after riding the course... don't know if they'll help you... but it's what I took note of...
The stick… Seems like a bunch of admin stuff to shuttle you out to the loops. There is a hill on Irish Lane. My plan is to JRA through that hill and to spend the time just easing into my race watts. It didn’t feel like there was really any extra speed to be had here anyway.
On County RD G just after Messerschmidt Rd there’s a really fast descent… but be easy toward the end because you need to make a pretty sharp right onto 92.
92 is a long stead climb up into MT Horeb I’m going to stay super tuned into the watts here. The two days I tried to add a little extra… didn’t pay any dividends. The second day we rode there was a pretty good headwind pushing against us all the way up.
After crossing Route 18… the road flattened out a bit.
Witte is fast rollers … felt like it was a good place to burn a little bit of a match. I pushed into the downhill’s and it really helped me fly over the rollers.
Garfoot after Mineral Point is super fast downhill! Lots of speed
There’s a good Youtube video showing the new part of the course including everyone’s favorite hill… Barlow.
As you ride up Barlow be conscious of the hills leading into the bigger climb. A bunch of these littler hills are followed by a little bit of road where you can get your speed up a tad before the next one. I’m going to focus and use all the gravity I can to minimize the damage here. After you summit Barlow use what you have to get on the gas a bit… lots of speed here until a left turn onto Mineral Point. This remains fast until you cross the intersection at P… I’m not sure if this road is closed… but the shoulder sucked to ride on… lots of annoying bumps…
After making the right on Old Military you’ll move right along on this flat section. If you’re going to ride some of the course this might be good to see. When you make the left onto Valley Spring Rd you’ll do a hill… but then it’s a fast descent. At the end of the road you make a left and you can’t carry that speed through it. The first day I skidded up onto the grass a little….second day I took it a little easier.
Ed - I agree with your observations. i am not sure why, but I feel the course is little bit nicer the way it is set up this year. I guess time will tell. I am curious what gearing people are going to use.
I noticed as well, the ride into Mt Horeb is deceptive. Very important to watch the watts there. I saw a slow decrease in speed and just had to live with it. It is easy to get frustrated in that segment.
As for my ride, I am debating abut changing the settings on my computer. I have noticed that chasing my Pnorm resulted in some unintended spikes.
I have now ridden the new course once and the old course 10 + times. I am happy to answer any questions people may have.
Swim Done today 3500 LCM tired arms.
http://ventumracing.com/ventum-bike-insure-promotion/
Probably not, but maybe?
Todd thank you for starting this week's thread!
I posted my Day 2 IMWI course ride in last week's thread. I rode the course twice with Ed last week. The way I look at this course is:
1) It is not as bad as IMLP for those that have raced that venue.
2) I will be focused on riding steady and saving as many watts as I can for the first 35 - 40 miles up to the Barlow hill. There are many rollers and flats that have a big payback for a focused biker using watts and holding watts steady on both the uphills and the downhill portions. There are several places on the course where you come down a hill but then have to slow down and make a hairpin turn, not ideal for recording a low V.I. holding steady watts. In these cases, accept it, move on and don't burn too many matches getting back up to your goal watts.
3) Barlow - again, it is a challenging hill, but it is 8 minutes of my day. 8 minutes out of a 5.5 - 6 hour bike ride and 11+ hour day. I ride with a 53/39 and 28/11 gear set. I have a healthy FTP and w/kg ratio. How many matches do I really want to burn in 8 minutes and what will that cost me during the back half of the marathon? How much time, anxiety and energy do I really want to spend thinking about this 8 minute hill? ......not much.
4) Save watts getting to the hill, approach this hill, spend 8 minutes of work in a controlled, safe manner, move on, re-focus on moving forward, staying aero, nutrition, holding steady watts and getting ready for the real race which starts about mile 80 of the bike leg.
This week, for me, is really about making it through a 3 hour / 18+ mile IM training run. My whole week is controlled anxiety, trying to recover from last weekend, eating well, resting where I can, taking care to not over do it with workouts leading up to my long run, visualizing hours 1, 2, and 3 of the long run, preparing my nutrition plan, route and counter statements for when I gets tough out there.
Good swim last evening: https://www.strava.com/activities/677505997
Interval run work on hills this morning in cooler temps: https://www.strava.com/activities/677942581 (Hard to really note GAP pacing in the hills as my elevation on the Garmin is wacked out but my HR profile shows the work)
Happy Tuesday all!
SS
On Saturday I did a 2hr trainer ride with 90 minutes at 85% of my FTP, then ran 6.7 miles in what seemed like rain forest conditions. Felt great on both the bike and run. On Sunday I planned my long ride, but made the boneheaded move to ride in unfamaliar territory, which ended in diaster. Rode 30 miles in about 3hrs. Constantly trying to figure out which way to go and the way I did go, the roads sucked so much I couldn't get any speed or be in the aero position. I finally just pulled the plug and called my wife to pick me up. Yesterday, I was very very tired so I did nothing. This morning I woke planning to swim, but couldn't find the motivation to swim back and forth in a pool. In fact, I've only swam once per week the last 2-3 weeks. I'm a pretty strong swimmer, but I need to get my ass in gear on the swim - not the time to be slacking! On the plus side, I did run 7 miles this morning and felt great all 7 miles. I'm a weak runner so slacking on my swim and making sure I'm getting my runs in is probably not such a bad trade off, right.....
Gearing up for the 3 hr run on Thursday. I'll have to get up at 4am and get out the door at 4:30 to get to work at a reasonable time.
I ride a mid-compact up front and an 11-28 in the back with an FTP around 3.1 W/Kg. As far as Barlow Rd. goes, I've ridden it twice and both times, my heart rate jump so damn high I thought I was going to have a heart attack. So I've decided its probably not worth all the matches I'd burn so my plan is to stop, hop off the bike and and walk it. Walking/shameful self will thank running self later on in the race. Let's hope race ego doesn't get the best of me.........
Pretty much down to my race weight of 153 pounds. I will miss skinny self come December......
Be safe and have fun!
@SS - EXCELLENT assessment of the issues, thanks for sharing!
Ugh - hadn't looked ahead yet. I guess I knew the time would come for a real long run. Im already hoping for cooler weather. If mt toes can hold out Ill be circling Forest Park in St. Louis for those local folks. I'll be the one sweating buckets.
Due to kids first day of school today, I did not get a chance to look at my file for Barlow. I seem to remember it is not that bad except for the really steep part in the middle. I think it easy to control the Watts in all but that spot. I agree, lots of opportunity to manage watts where others won't given the gradual up and down nature of the course.
Run went well this am, toes are so/so. I am worries about the weekend as I am on call all weekend and thus will be a slave to the trainer. Plenty of good olympics to watch I guess.
lastly, wondering if anyone in the group uses arm coolers during the run. I will be trying them out as soon as they arrive. Looking for thoughts.
TG
@Todd - I'll be out at FP sweating as well, probably starting about 1600 or so. 3 laps usually does it for me given my glacial pace. I wear arm coolers during the run sometimes; as long as I have water to put on them, they work fairly well, but I'm primarily using them for UV protection. Last weekend, I did have some axillary chafing from the upper part, so I'd watch that.
Bike
• Since the spring my NP has dropped quite a bit. From April to mid-June, my average NP was 180. From mid-June to present, my NP has averaged 168. However, my average speed actually increased by .5 mph. My Cadence has remained the same, around 89. Average heart rate dropped during same time period from 143 to 135. Obviously it’s all signs of improved fitness, but how can I produce lets watts (NP) and go faster – is this just improved fitness, I can’t reconcile this.
• Looking at my IMWI course data and when I rode on July 1st, my NP was 166, which implies an IF of .77, but my average HR is 137. VI was 1.17. An IF of .77 implies I’ll blow up, but my average HR of 137 is pretty much my target HR. Is my FTP (215) to low? My data from camp week is not comparable as I rode the loop 3x and the last loop I pushed myself. However, my data is NP of 172, VI of 1.27 and average HR of 143.
Run
• As I’ve stated my run is pretty weak. Always has been, always will be. My average HR has come down a lot since the spring, but looking at my long runs, >10 miles, my average HR has been 142, 137, 139 on runs of 10 miles, 15 miles and 13 miles, respectively. My pace on those runs have been 9:39, 10:44 and 10:15, respectively. Interesting how my pace shot up from 9:39 to over 10 minutes/mile while the gain in HR was only around 3%. The 10 miler was done back in June while the 15 and 13 milers were completed in the last 2 weeks. Is the increase in pace/mile from 10 to 15 and 13 mile runs due to increased fatigue as I’ve stepped up the training? Not sure what my targeted HR should be for Ironman yet. I still think 137/139 might be to high for me. Maybe between 130 to 135? Maybe Thursday’s run will help me sort things out…..
Thoughts/comments appreciated
@Chris. I try the run. Yes I think fatigue can play a role. I also find that I hold a little back in the beginning as the distances get farther as I don't want to blow up. Also, I have felt the sting of increased heat and humidity. I slowly kills me. I have noticed my pace is not what it used to be on my long runs. I will report back after Thursday.
@Chris - if I look at your August 5th ride on the IMWI course, 157 NP / 215 = .73 IF.......looks about right to me.
At this point this close to your race, your most recent long rides and associated 5 hour power / avg HR are going to be much more relevant data points for you to focus on vs. an FTP number from a 20' test.....
SS
Happy Wednesday all! How is the fatigue level today? Hopefully better than it was Monday morning coming off of that weekend work?
For those running long tomorrow, good luck out there. I plan to. Arguably one of the toughest single workouts on the entire IM schedule. My method is to sleep well, hydrate and just start putting one foot in front of the other focusing only on the first hour then allowing things to go from there....
Completed swim two yesterday - was long.....
Got on the trainer early this morning for the leg smashing 2 X 20s....just a dark way to wake up. I consider these intensity intervals to be really important for maintaining some sense of balance between fast twitch and slow twitch muscle mix given all of the long rides we are completing at this point in the plan. The 2 X 20s are just much harder given our slow twitch base is more developed from the long rides. Got through my own little hell this morning and looking for a window to run before the day is over.
https://www.strava.com/activities/679169973
One day closer!
Had awful night up from 1-3:00am and could not get the energy I needed for the 2x20. Watts were way down , but I hope the fatigue played a role. 2 mile shortened run afterwards went just fine. Oddly, I am really looking forward to tomorrow run. There is nothing better then when it goes well. However, it can be a dream crusher if it doesn't. I try to remember it just another workout and 1 workout does mean your race will be great or terrible.
On another note. With the omission of Old Salk and Tomber, any thoughts on where people will/should congregate on the course. I assume the Mid-town hill will be crazy. Barlow does not seem to have much in the way of good access points. Just curious as my family has really enjoyed the spectacle that Timber Ln usually is.
Good luck tomorrow. Pacing and hydration will be my keys. And hoping my toenails don't fall off
@ SS - thanks man, agree.
I will be running with Coach P's plan for me as this will be a big jump in time on my feet tomorrow...extra walk breaks it is. I have had great runs and crappers on the long run day. Tomorrow the goal is steady eddy, nothing flashy, don't get hurt.
The Stick: I personally think this is where there is speed on the course. The first day I rode it (Wed), wind was mostly from the south. The second day I rode it, Wind was from the NW. Both days, I rode the stick out ≈19mph and the stick back ≈21mph; I averaged 18.7mph for the full course both day. My takeaway is that I will not treat this as admin on race day. I will try to find speed there because it is easier to find than the rest of the course.
Barlow: SS says it best. It is 8 minutes of your life, don't make it bigger than it is. I have 50/34 chain rings and a 12-28 cassette. I rode averaged about 3.3 w/kg on both climbs at a cadence between 75 & 80. Could have easily backed that down to 65ish and saved some watts. There is downhill speed coming into the Barlow section - carry that through the right turn. There is also a slight downhill after teh first steep section of Barlow - take full advantage of it. I was also shameless about zig zagging when it got really steep so that I could keep spinning. Bring your gears, don't let it ruin your day and don't stress about it beforehand. (As an aside, Anna doesn't have my w/kg,so she has a 50/34 chainring and a 12-32 cassette; she managed Barlow fine.)
Momentum: This course is about momentum. Climb the hills the EN way, then accelerate over the top and down the other side so that gravity is your friend. You DO NOT want to coast down the hills and then have to pedal hard to fight gravity all the way up the next hill. It is important to ride the course easy enough that you can stay focused for 112 miles.
Smooth is fast: Even on an open course full of stoplights and cars, I dropped my VI from 1.07 to 1.05 over two days and I could feel the difference coming off the bike. Take good lines through the corners, and keep pedaling.
Wind: The last takeaway I had was relative to the wind... day 1 was 15 and gusting higher, day 2 was 5-10 and relatively calm. This course is a lot more exposed to the wind than it looks like it is. Wind seldom gets into my head (not even in Cozumel). The Day 1 winds combined with the constant hills and turns wore me out. I rode NP 192w (71%) and it felt like I rode at 200w. If it is windy on race day, I will lower my target watts by about 5w.
This week is the last big push!! Everything we do this week will still make us stronger for race day... so let's make it count.
Stay healthy, train hard!
Good points Rich... When I was saying it was admin stuff...I really meant on the way out. I looked at my data from the second ride Shaughn and I went on. For the whole day I averaged 18.4mph and averaged 197w (training peaks data... Starve reads differently...don't really know why). The first 5 miles...I really was just loosening up the legs and trying to not make another wrong turn. From 5-10 I was at 187w and riding 17.5. The way back in on the stick I see that speed you're talking about... from 102-107 I was averaging 20 on 200 watts. But I just can't imagine I'm going to have any extra watts to be pushing at this part of the race. I'm just going to be holding my line.
What I spent the day doing on that ride is looking for was those little gems like you're talking about on Barlow...places to push a little... for a much bigger gain.
Some good wisdom regarding the Stick on the way back below. For those that have stayed within their box, rode their race, employed steady watts all day, managed Barlow correctly, etc., you are now set up to really take advantage of that on the Stick (as Rich/Ed point out) when a lot of your competition will begin feeling the effects of all the matches they just burned and looking for some opportunity to slack off. Don't leave that free speed on the table, check out mentally and coast in for miles 80 - 112.........your race is just now beginning!
SS
Some good news about Barlow. Just got this response from the IM people.
Wendy-
Thank you for reaching out. Parking will not be allowed on Barlow. The road will be closed to through traffic and will be monitored by the Dane County Sheriff. Those spectators who choose to go to Barlow will face a long walk unfortunately. Please let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with.
Best wishes,
MEREDITH MAHONEY
Coordinator, Athlete Services
World Triathlon Corporation
2701 North Rocky Point Dr | Suite 1250
Tampa, FL 33607
P: 813.868.5940 ext. 5987 M-F 9am-5pm EST
The analysis:
Overal, I averaged 10:41/mile with an average heart rate of 133, which is pretty much where my thinking was before today. I'm sure I'll be a bit slower after swimming/biking, but I have my target. First six miles I averaged just over 11 minutes per mile and my HR was around 126/127 - easy easy. Miles 6-12 I progressively got faster by about a minute per mile ending mile 12 at a pace of 10:18 and a heart rate of 136. Miles 13 to 17.3 I progressively got faster hovering around 10 minutes per mile give or take 15 seconds. My heart rate started to accelerate quite a bit during this stretch bumping up to 144-147. Not concerned about the heart rate to much on the last 5 or so miles as I started to go through a pretty hilly section with about 900 feet of total elevation gain during that section.
As long as I don't do anything stupid on the bike (a big if folks), I feel pretty confident I can run the entire marathon at a 10:40-11:10 pace with a heart rate around 135 or less. This assumes I didn't f-up my quad.....
Hope everyone had/has a great run!
Leadville MTB 100 in the books, read my RR in the Epic forum if you haven't seen it yet, and a shameless plug seeking donations for my CAF fundraiser - http://support.challengedathletes.org/site/TR?px=1024031&fr_id=1130&pg=personal
Went out to do some FTP work last night, was clear that 2x20 wasn't happening 4 days after an 11 hr MTB race... was attempting to do 10-8-6, Garmin died right when I was starting the 8 min interval. https://www.strava.com/activities/679986452
Got out there this AM and started my long run in the rain.. wasn't sure what distance to go for on tired legs... opted for a 16 miler... VERY tough fight with the Gorilla, he was winning in miles 13-16... but I stayed in the cage and got bloodied.. https://www.strava.com/activities/680449174