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Vasa Erg as a swim supplement. Calling all users
Recently, people have been reaching out to me looking for feedback on how to use the Vasa erg as a supplement to swimming in a pool. I thought I would try and consolidate some resources into a thread.
Here is an interview I did with Vasa summarizing some of my recent experiences that was recently published on their blog.
https://vasatrainer.com/blog/
This is a thread on slowtwitch that I found helpful as well.
I know that there are several covert users in the haus who also can share their experiences. Consider this the "batman" sign into the sky to call all users into a conversation.
Please feel free to reach out to me with questions.
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@Ian - I was soon to be one of those asking you for some direction on the Vasa. Thanks for starting the ball rolling here.
Ian: thanx for starting this
58 minute wetsuit at Canada this year.
95 % training on the ergometer.
suits me for time efficiency.
big caution note for everyone::: will not help your form.
@ Mariah - Nice!
@ Robin - you are an example of someone with technique who can really leverage the Vasa.
@ Tom - my technique sucks too - but I find that I can better refine my miserable technique when I do get wet after I have built up some swim fitness from a Vasa build first... I just don't get as exhausted. YMMV.
@ David - Pretty sure Vasa is outlawed/banned/prohibited and forbidden in Tahiti... Just sayin..
@ Phil - Fire away.
I'm curious as to how you used the power numbers in combination with sets and or workouts.
The Vasa is a GREAT strength building too and definitely a time saver but I've never been very clear on how to really to maximize it's total usefulness.
I wish there was a program similar to Trainer Road for using the ERG. A few years ago the people at TR had a small closed group they were experimenting with but it never panned out. I was involved with it but 0ne of the the problems was the data when uploaded skewed your bike power numbers.
Since that time I've basically used mine for building strength and not much else. I would really like some greater insight on how to maximize that time if you wouldn't mind sharing specifics?
Thanks!
Mee mee..... ooooo pick me!!!!
Fantastic to get this up and talking Ian, thanks!
I have one (the super slick Erg even) but have really been off and on it. I'd see something from Robin or Ian and get a renewed interest for a couple weeks and then the pool (with hubby swim dates) would inevitably draw me away. I think this is a tool where it "doesn't have to be epic to be awesome" really applies. If it's sitting right there, even knocking out 20-30' would really increase strength. And agreed - not a form tool.
That being said, I think the struggle for me is with structure. That Trainer Road group may have helped but yes, having a few complete sets to draw from that aren't horribly boring would help me use mine, I believe. There is another local athlete that does "Vasa Negatives" and has improved significantly as well. And Robin I think you just get on there and knock out a very basic set, yes? Git 'r' Dun? Oh and then go on to crush the Friday Night Swim Races and qualify for Kona.... just sayin it WORKS!
I'd love to help where I can. I have a subscription to the Swim Smooth Guru which has an entire library of swims based off of CSS. I've been doing new swims out of there every week and recycling through the ones I really like. If we can leverage the CSS concept within the haus on or off the VASA I'd love to help.
Cheers!
The reason I reached out to Eric Neilsen at Train Smart Race Fast was because he was not only a Vasa advocate, but an accomplished swim coach. I was hoping that he could bridge the language gap between water workouts and Vasa workouts, and give guidance on ways to best use the Vasa. I asked him to write workouts for me to use during my HIM and IM builds with the following restrictions:
1 - Don't expect me to do ANY workouts in the water. If I could... great. But don't expect it. Races - yes, obviously. Workouts, no.
2. I have time for 3 workouts per week, 45'-60'.
I kept track of the workouts he assigned and threw them into a very rough excel doc. (I suck at excel stuff). I will share this on this thread. Realize that the progression was individualized for my season with my framework. If one has more time, different race priorities etc, the type and order of these would likely change. Moving forward, these workouts along with the ones in the slowtwitch thread will provide me with a reasonable amount of variety. I also learned different workouts for "types" of Vasa main sets. The pattern was very similar to the Outseason - 1 FTP type, 1 VO2 type, and 1 Endurance type workout per week was the most common pattern. However, I am in discussions with Rob Sleamaker at Vasa to try and encourage publication of "translated" swim workouts that are written FOR Vasa. Power and time based. We'll see where that leads...
The CSS concept would work as well. Just do a 400/100 Vasa test to establish Vasa power zones based off of your "400" power aka FTP and then adapt to use the swim smooth workouts.
I would love to expand a quality databank/collection of Vasa specific workouts to choose from. This is the essence of my request to Rob. No reason we couldn't start one here though.
Here is my Vasa season build that contains workout descriptions:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qDIVCeKpNYB1xfVCH5jVVnRZuDconM2i6EEXQ9hkp90/edit#gid=1853838852
Let me know if you have questions.
I've duly noted some of the comments that state the Vasa is not for technique improvement. Love to get some more thoughts on this from others.
The Vasa site has a bunch of technique video and they seem to believe it is good in this area.
Thanks to this post, I've dusted off the Vasa and have been thinking of how to best use it. One of the things that originally attracted me to this was the ability to video myself. In the pool, I really can't see what I'm doing and have very little sense of what I'm doing wrong. Show me a video, and it's obvious, otherwise my 1:45/100 feels like I'm an Olympian
So, I had some underwater video analysis done last month. The video is here:
This weekend I hopped on the Vasa and tried to do a better job. From the short video I made here https://www.dropbox.com/s/ilthlroyn6ont03/EVF practice on Vasa.m4v?dl=0 , I think it looks a lot better than the in-the-water video. I used Ubersense (Hudl Technique) to draw lines tracking my forearm here https://www.dropbox.com/s/agzjwn9lkac1tiy/Tracking EVF on Vasa.jpg?dl=0, and again I think it's a vast improvement.
So to the original question, am I off base for technique improvements?
Ian, did your coach ask for some video of you on a regular basis?
Tom
I may have done a couple 75 minute sessions.
Occ fly or breast stroke for rest interval.
Crank the music and zen out.
I think the vasa is also a great core workout. And the vasa also serves as a strength workout.
I don't have the power measurement gizmo. Beginning of season put resistance around 3. Work up to 5.
I am not sure how this device would help form much. Yes you can do drills and think about what you are doing. But it will not give you feedback like the water does. You can actually go faster on the vasa by using poor form.
Bought the erg ~2 years ago but I didn't really start using it until this past season. I don't have pool access nearby at times that I can make work well and decent OWS is an hour away, so I started swimming whatever my EN plan workout was on the VASA as best as possible. Aside from hard/easy sets it's tough to measure effort for a lot of workouts (e.g. 3x300 descending) because the numbers on my display jump around, so I'm mostly doing those on feel.
Raced a HIM this year and had the identical swim time without a wetsuit as I had the prior year with it, so certainly some improvement. Couldn't say if my form is better or worse.
That said, I am guilty of putting an ipad under the bench, bluetooth headphones, and getting some guilt free tv in while banging out longer sessions. So much more interesting than staring at the "black line".
The ant+ addition is a great way to track the sessions, and plays nice with TP - not so much with strava yet.
Sorry about the lock on the spreadsheet - not sure how to release the privacy settings. I have been approving all requests as I receive.
for the spreadsheet, I think you just click on the blue "share" button in the top right. Then select "Anyone who has the link can view"
~ Coach P
I had used the swim smooth 400/200 CSS protocol for a couple of seasons and just modified it for the VASA:
http://www.swimsmooth.com/training.html
Last season, I was prescribed a 400/100 protocol by Eric Neilsen at TSRF. These were his instructions for the test that I saved in my Strava account:
https://www.strava.com/activities/622400500
2016-06-27 EN TSRF Swim VASA 2000m 400/100 CSS power test
Instructions:
Extended warm up of 15 minutes making sure to target both some high SPM work and some bib DD# to get things fully opened up.
400M test first and program in the distance so when you finish it will give avg SPM and Power along with time.
Rest 8-10 minutes with both passive and active before you tackle the 100 Test. Same thing program in the distance so you can collect avg's when done
Results:
400 - 5:49 - 113w avg; 60 spm; 1:22/100y
100 - 1:18 - 154w avg; 60 spm; 1:15/100y
There are also some other protocols floating around on the VASA website from Al Lyman which include a couple variations of a 1000m TT.
We tended to use the 400 number as a sort of FTPish number and based power workouts on a percentage of the 400 and 100 watts. Ex: - 75-80% 400 watts for intervals of 8-15 min over an hour workout; 100% of 100 wattage for short intervals of 15-45 sec etc.
I found the 400/100 to be fairly reproducible and reasonable in establishing power zones for FTP type and VO2 type interval workouts.
Using wattage goals/targets with varied DD levels and stroke rates to achieve wattages was engaging and helpful fitness wise...
Another piece of $2k+ gear is a big commitment and given that our current discount doesn't even offset the price of shipping it's a pretty hard sell no matter how creatvie I get with my sales pitch to my wife.
I'd also like to see more of an integration in terms of workouts or plans to combine the Vasa and pool time. I know @Ian Kurth did this but I believe he was using a Vasa specific coach for his swim plans.
I'd be happy to help with guidance for how I use modify workouts etc, but I suspect/hope that given Coach P's positive experience, some collective guidance for the haus will soon follow.
@Coach Patrick - how do we listen to the remainder (black box) portion of your podcast??
As an aside, I have recently begun ramping up my Vasa usage again, and I plan to follow the same workout types as I did last season (see link to workout descriptions above) except this season I am hoping/planning/scheduling additional frequency. Still plan to keep my >90% Vasa:H2O ratio. I am having some trouble typing this right now after this am's Vasa beatdown...