I will target 1:33:00 at the half and see what happens. This isn't my 'A' race so I don't care if I blow up a bit. I want to see what I got.
I am mostly resting. I have cut down the volume but still did a couple shorter high intensity workouts this week. I planned it all out in TrainingPeaks and I will have a TSB of 4 on race day. Next week will be super easy.
I am also racing a 5K on Saturday, I can't wait to see what my VDOT / Power end up being!
@Peter Noyes you are going to need a new nickname with all this awesomeness going on.
Your trick will be getting to a 1:33 half +/- 30 seconds (don't beat yourself up for every second) as cheesily as possible. As you know, 18-22 can be hell...so I would research that part of the course and have a mental plan there. Once you you are in the final 4 miles, it's all Guts and Glory anyway.
18-22 are all uphill and the toughest part of the course. I will slow down there for sure I just need to be mentally prepared for it. It might be a good section to ignore pace and just go by power so I don't feel bad about slowing.
The last 3 miles are all downhill, hopefully I will have enough in the tank to fly to the finish.
I raced the 5k (which is really 3.3 miles). I did it at a 5:57 pace with 18:25 for the 5k portion. That puts me at a 54 vdot. At my peak my vdot was 56. I paced the race horribly, it was basically even splits even though the first half was uphill and the last half was downhill. I came in 2nd though!
Early-season race execution is always hard to manage. Don't beat yourself up too much! It's a great indicator of your fitness that you've managed to build already. How do you feel about that one test in relation to your target marathon time?
I think its a good indicator of being able to hit 3:10. I raced a 5k in 17:56 the week before I did the 3:00ish marathon. A 56 vdot should be a 2:53, but I did 3:00. A 54 should do 2:58, so if I take 7 minutes off of that it would be 3:05. Based on that it seems like 3:10 should be doable. LA is a tough course though, but the weather looks good.
Considering I was a sloth on Dec 31 I will take it! I haven't had a sub 6:00 5K in almost 2 years. I just wish I hadn't gone out so fast... probably could have had a better time. They had the duathletes and 5K racers go off at the same time and I didn't know exactly who I was racing. I tried to stay with the lead pack of mostly duathletes but realized a half mile in that I was doing a 5:40 pace uphill. At that point I think I had already kind of blown up.
@Peter Noyes - some really great data, thank you for sharing. I agree you're right there but execution will still be key. As we saw in the other file above, there's a really good back section of the race not too different from the challenges associated with Boston. I know you're mentally tough, but I would suggest having some attrition there as well to keep you focused!
I'm glad you still remember that you were a sloth in December. both because that rest is important for you, but also see you realize just how far you come. Super impressed, and super excited to folly race. Is there a way we can track you online?
I am working on visualizing the race and mentally preparing for the suck. I am reading the biography of Frank Shorter and he has a good motto of "Riding the Pain" which was his advantage, hopefully I can use that somehow.
I am in Corral B. For Corral A you needed a Sub 3:15 qualifying time. For Corral B you needed Sub 3:45 (I was able to use my 3:24 from Wisconsin). I am going to line up at the very front of Corral B. In theory this means that I should be passing people throughout the race and hopefully not getting passed too much. I think it will be a good spot to be.
I had a great race. Thanks for getting me on track and in shape! I went out a bit hot, 1:32 for the first half. I was feeling really good!! As expected I slowed in the second half. I just didn't have the strength in my legs, or all the downhill killed them. The tiny little muscles above my quads gave out. I will write a race report. It was awesome!
I feel really good for San Francisco! What do you think I should do now? Coach R said to do the run focus for 6 weeks and then 12 weeks of one of the marathon plans. Does that sound good? If so I will need to modify this first week. I am not doing a 5K TT and an FTP test over the next few days!
@Peter Noyes - your first week should be all about recovery. As far as you have become, there is still a lot to go… And all of that is predicated on your ability to absorb this marathon. So give yourself a week of light to no activity Monday through Friday, feel free to get out and stretch legs and a bike this weekend.
You do have a great six-week block that we can do whatever you want before you need to get serious to San Francisco. You have a lot of options here… But the last thing I want you to do is just pile on more marathon training weeks.
You could ride your bike, you could run the trails(Off-road), and even working some strength training. What do you think?
I am tentatively signed up for a 5K at the end of April and was thinking it might be fun to go after a PR there. But that would mean more fast road running.
I also found out I am going to Berlin for work for a week in May. May 14th is a famous 25K (15 miles) road race in Berlin that would be really fun to race.
In short I don't know what I want to do. Whatever sets me up for the best chance of going Sub 3:00 (or faster!) in July I am game for!
Cool! I am signed up for the BIG 25 Berlin on May 14th! The stretch goal would be to go sub 1:40 (6:26 pace). My half marathon PR is a 1:22:52 which is a 6:18 pace. It would be neat to do 5 sub < 20:00 5Ks in a row!
I am willing to do more cross training.
- I have access to a gym here at work with weights and some machines. (Though I have no idea what I am doing) - I could take a yoga class at lunch (multiple local yoga places) - If I really needed to I could swim, but logistically that sucks up a ton of time and would eat up SAUs - I work on the 9th floor and can take the stairs. - I could take spin classes, there is a place right by work
Hi Coach. Sorry about the direct message. I did the TRP run with strides at lunch and felt really good. Legs not sore. Did 5.7 miles at 7:16 pace. I think I am ready to start some work.
I have an appointment today at 2:00 to see an ART guy about it. So far biking seems ok so I might have to do a cycling heavy block. Ugh! Things were going so well...
@Peter Noyes - tell me more and head over to www.athletestreatingathletes.com to view the body map and Leigh's Video collection. (you can google most of the stuff with her name if the video doesn't show right up)
We can cycle it out; don't get down. What this means is that you ramped a bit steeply; we need to process it. You have nothing MANDATORY that requires high quality training in the next 3-4 weeks...so let's be smart!
I am 99% sure I have some patellar tendonitis in my left knee. The pain is below the kneecap pretty much where the tendon connects to the tibia. Walking down stairs is painful.
I went to a local chiropractor on Friday who specializes in ART and Graston and treats lots of other runners and triathletes. He identified very tight quads/hamstrings/ankles and some foot pronation that probably all contribute to my problems. He gave me some stretches to do which I have been following and I will go back once a week.
The good news is that the pain is almost gone, much better than last week. Cycling doesn't seem to bother it too much. I can sort of feel it in the first 10 minutes but then it is fine. I haven't run in 5 days. The Chiropractor seemed to think I could try running as soon as I felt I could handle it. I might try within the next few days. I am only hesitant because I can still feel a little something when doing a squat.
I also read that eccentric decline squats area really good for patellar tendonitis. I will add those to my usual routine as soon as they are pain free.
I checked out athletestreatingathletes and I will incorporate some of that as well.
@Peter Noyes - good to catch that early. I also have used Rock Tape to "scoop up" the patella (on Leigh's site)...can you run on a soft track / treadmill the first few times back?
The knee got worse I haven't even tried running. I am worried it might be a stress fracture. I went to DR today and MRI this afternoon. X-Ray looks funny, but I have had surgery in that area before so it might be related to that.
I have been pretty bummed, let my diet go, etc... But I am ready to really focus now and get better. I had PT today and got a bunch of exercises to do. Here is what he is having me do:
Single leg bridges Modified Starfish Hip Abductor Stretches Hamstring Stretches Calf Stretches Calf Raises Leg raises for quads
At PT they also do ultrasound with anti-inflammatory gel, and gameready ice (compression + ice)
Also: Ice 2x a day myself
I really like the PT, he also does ART and Graston type stuff. I think I will stop going to my other ART guy and just do the PT because insurance pays for it!
In addition to what he prescribed I want to also do: Planks Pushups Pullups
For the Pushups/Pullups I am thinking of trying the Armstrong Pullup program.
You said something about some kettle ball exercises as well?
@Peter Noyes - It's okay to have a pity party. Onwards..I like it...I suggest you review this piece (plenty of links) to help you as well...likely part of the issue:
For the record, I had to watch a crap ton of really bad weightlifter videos. Someone is making a killing on these ridonkulous animated entries timed with heavy metal. Mr Cable Chops is my fav.
Thanks for the message on Strava. I was just too bummed to do much of anything until now and completely lost focus for the past 2 months
I did however keep up with physical therapy. The good news is that I am now pain free, and I can even run it seems. I passed the test of being able to hop on one foot. The bad news is that I am starting completely from scratch.... again...
Running a marathon in July sounds like a bad idea, so I am scrapping that. I think a new goal would be to target the Santa Clarita marathon in November.
Other goals would be to hike Half Dome on July 26th, and be a pacer for the AC100 in August.
I am just starting to run/bike for fun and to get back in shape, and also keep up with stretching and exercises. Thoughts?
@Peter Noyes - no worries, thanks for not reporting me as a stalker!
Starting over again is not as bad as you think, because being pain-free so important. Tell me a little bit more about the underlying issues. Do you feel like they are resolved, or have you just beaten them back for the interim?
Either way, I am pumped! My recommended course of action is that you spend six weeks then back to being active. Very similar to what we did last time, and that it's very bike heavy with run frequency.
Since you are a triathlete, we should also consider/how the pool too. How about you tell me what your training options right now as well as whatever physical therapy requirements are (exercises) and I can go from there.
Sorry its been so long. I am really struggling with getting back into a daily exercise routine again. It is sooo tempting to just sleep in and wake up when my kids do. I now have 3 weeks of at least some sort of activity. I did a 11 mile hike/run this past weekend that went well.
I am pretty much pain free. Sometimes I feel a little "something" but it isn't quite pain. I can't really describe it other than I am just hyperaware of that part of my body and sometimes it just feels a little off.
I have been working a lot on overall flexibility and arch strength in my feet to stop pronating so much which is what I think the root of the issue is.
Next week I am hiking half dome in Yosemite (16 miles, 4000 feet of climbing). In 3 weeks I am pacing in the AC 100, which will be mostly hiking. So for the next week I am just focusing on being on the trails and getting time on my feet.
After the AC I want to slowly build up to some kind of race. At this point I don't even know what I want to do.
@Peter Noyes - hey man, it's good to see you back in the game. There's no pressure from us as to what you need to do. We have to remember that you were not only under an incredible amount of personal stress, but you were also pushing your body to new athletic limits. And not just like everyone else, but to be your best. That is some serious work and require some serious down time.
My point being is there's no one place where you "should" be. I like the idea of getting you consistent as your body will be much happier with the routine… But we don't need to have goals just yet.
I suggest that you plan on getting onto Zwift 2x a week and maybe do a group ride on the weekend just sitting in. The rest of the time you could walk or work in a little running.
you are going to be active enough the next few weeks...let's see how your body responds!
Comments
I like your "Athlete Voice"
I will target 1:33:00 at the half and see what happens. This isn't my 'A' race so I don't care if I blow up a bit. I want to see what I got.
I am mostly resting. I have cut down the volume but still did a couple shorter high intensity workouts this week. I planned it all out in TrainingPeaks and I will have a TSB of 4 on race day. Next week will be super easy.
I am also racing a 5K on Saturday, I can't wait to see what my VDOT / Power end up being!
Also, Happy Belated Birthday!
Your trick will be getting to a 1:33 half +/- 30 seconds (don't beat yourself up for every second) as cheesily as possible. As you know, 18-22 can be hell...so I would research that part of the course and have a mental plan there. Once you you are in the final 4 miles, it's all Guts and Glory anyway.
Time to visualize finishing in like a boss!
18-22 are all uphill and the toughest part of the course. I will slow down there for sure
The last 3 miles are all downhill, hopefully I will have enough in the tank to fly to the finish.
The first 10k is all downhill as well.
https://www.strava.com/segments/781833
I raced the 5k (which is really 3.3 miles). I did it at a 5:57 pace with 18:25 for the 5k portion. That puts me at a 54 vdot. At my peak my vdot was 56. I paced the race horribly, it was basically even splits even though the first half was uphill and the last half was downhill. I came in 2nd though!
Considering I was a sloth on Dec 31 I will take it! I haven't had a sub 6:00 5K in almost 2 years. I just wish I hadn't gone out so fast... probably could have had a better time. They had the duathletes and 5K racers go off at the same time and I didn't know exactly who I was racing. I tried to stay with the lead pack of mostly duathletes but realized a half mile in that I was doing a 5:40 pace uphill. At that point I think I had already kind of blown up.
I'm glad you still remember that you were a sloth in December.
~ Coach P
I am working on visualizing the race and mentally preparing for the suck. I am reading the biography of Frank Shorter and he has a good motto of "Riding the Pain" which was his advantage, hopefully I can use that somehow.
I found a cool animation that steps through the race:
I am Bib #3256
https://app.rtrt.me/TS-LAMAR-2017/R6XBM3PD
The race starts at 6:55 PST on Sunday.
I am in Corral B. For Corral A you needed a Sub 3:15 qualifying time. For Corral B you needed Sub 3:45 (I was able to use my 3:24 from Wisconsin). I am going to line up at the very front of Corral B. In theory this means that I should be passing people throughout the race and hopefully not getting passed too much. I think it will be a good spot to be.
I had a great race. Thanks for getting me on track and in shape! I went out a bit hot, 1:32 for the first half. I was feeling really good!! As expected I slowed in the second half. I just didn't have the strength in my legs, or all the downhill killed them. The tiny little muscles above my quads gave out. I will write a race report. It was awesome!
I feel really good for San Francisco! What do you think I should do now? Coach R said to do the run focus for 6 weeks and then 12 weeks of one of the marathon plans. Does that sound good? If so I will need to modify this first week. I am not doing a 5K TT and an FTP test over the next few days!
You do have a great six-week block that we can do whatever you want before you need to get serious to San Francisco. You have a lot of options here… But the last thing I want you to do is just pile on more marathon training weeks.
You could ride your bike, you could run the trails(Off-road), and even working some strength training. What do you think?
~ Coach P
I am tentatively signed up for a 5K at the end of April and was thinking it might be fun to go after a PR there. But that would mean more fast road running.
I also found out I am going to Berlin for work for a week in May. May 14th is a famous 25K (15 miles) road race in Berlin that would be really fun to race.
In short I don't know what I want to do. Whatever sets me up for the best chance of going Sub 3:00 (or faster!) in July I am game for!
~ Coach P
I am willing to do more cross training.
- I have access to a gym here at work with weights and some machines. (Though I have no idea what I am doing)
- I could take a yoga class at lunch (multiple local yoga places)
- If I really needed to I could swim, but logistically that sucks up a ton of time and would eat up SAUs
- I work on the 9th floor and can take the stairs.
- I could take spin classes, there is a place right by work
I have an appointment today at 2:00 to see an ART guy about it. So far biking seems ok so I might have to do a cycling heavy block. Ugh! Things were going so well...
We can cycle it out; don't get down. What this means is that you ramped a bit steeply; we need to process it. You have nothing MANDATORY that requires high quality training in the next 3-4 weeks...so let's be smart!
I am 99% sure I have some patellar tendonitis in my left knee. The pain is below the kneecap pretty much where the tendon connects to the tibia. Walking down stairs is painful.
I went to a local chiropractor on Friday who specializes in ART and Graston and treats lots of other runners and triathletes. He identified very tight quads/hamstrings/ankles and some foot pronation that probably all contribute to my problems. He gave me some stretches to do which I have been following and I will go back once a week.
The good news is that the pain is almost gone, much better than last week. Cycling doesn't seem to bother it too much. I can sort of feel it in the first 10 minutes but then it is fine. I haven't run in 5 days. The Chiropractor seemed to think I could try running as soon as I felt I could handle it. I might try within the next few days. I am only hesitant because I can still feel a little something when doing a squat.
I also read that eccentric decline squats area really good for patellar tendonitis. I will add those to my usual routine as soon as they are pain free.
I checked out athletestreatingathletes and I will incorporate some of that as well.
The knee got worse
Fingers / shins / ankles crossed!
~ Coach P
~ Coach~ Coach P
I have been pretty bummed, let my diet go, etc... But I am ready to really focus now and get better. I had PT today and got a bunch of exercises to do. Here is what he is having me do:
Single leg bridges
Modified Starfish
Hip Abductor Stretches
Hamstring Stretches
Calf Stretches
Calf Raises
Leg raises for quads
At PT they also do ultrasound with anti-inflammatory gel, and gameready ice (compression + ice)
Also:
Ice 2x a day myself
I really like the PT, he also does ART and Graston type stuff. I think I will stop going to my other ART guy and just do the PT because insurance pays for it!
In addition to what he prescribed I want to also do:
Planks
Pushups
Pullups
For the Pushups/Pullups I am thinking of trying the Armstrong Pullup program.
You said something about some kettle ball exercises as well?
http://athletestreatingathletes.com/pfsrunners-knee-treatment/
Leigh is great.
So for strength, I like the armstrong program as an AM thing with Pushups as a PM thing for NON PT days. And plank at lunch!
The days you have PT, see if you can use their gear to get a workout in there. You've already paid and signed a waiver...
Exercises I would include are:
- J-Curls on a step
- Farmer's Carry
- Single leg deadlift with kettle bell
- Cable Chops
- Any chest/back you want.
For the record, I had to watch a crap ton of really bad weightlifter videos. Someone is making a killing on these ridonkulous animated entries timed with heavy metal. Mr Cable Chops is my fav.Thanks for the message on Strava. I was just too bummed to do much of anything until now and completely lost focus for the past 2 months
I did however keep up with physical therapy. The good news is that I am now pain free, and I can even run it seems. I passed the test of being able to hop on one foot. The bad news is that I am starting completely from scratch.... again...
Running a marathon in July sounds like a bad idea, so I am scrapping that. I think a new goal would be to target the Santa Clarita marathon in November.
Other goals would be to hike Half Dome on July 26th, and be a pacer for the AC100 in August.
I am just starting to run/bike for fun and to get back in shape, and also keep up with stretching and exercises. Thoughts?
Starting over again is not as bad as you think, because being pain-free so important. Tell me a little bit more about the underlying issues. Do you feel like they are resolved, or have you just beaten them back for the interim?
Either way, I am pumped! My recommended course of action is that you spend six weeks then back to being active. Very similar to what we did last time, and that it's very bike heavy with run frequency.
Since you are a triathlete, we should also consider/how the pool too. How about you tell me what your training options right now as well as whatever physical therapy requirements are (exercises) and I can go from there.
Sorry its been so long. I am really struggling with getting back into a daily exercise routine again. It is sooo tempting to just sleep in and wake up when my kids do. I now have 3 weeks of at least some sort of activity. I did a 11 mile hike/run this past weekend that went well.
I am pretty much pain free. Sometimes I feel a little "something" but it isn't quite pain. I can't really describe it other than I am just hyperaware of that part of my body and sometimes it just feels a little off.
I have been working a lot on overall flexibility and arch strength in my feet to stop pronating so much which is what I think the root of the issue is.
Next week I am hiking half dome in Yosemite (16 miles, 4000 feet of climbing). In 3 weeks I am pacing in the AC 100, which will be mostly hiking. So for the next week I am just focusing on being on the trails and getting time on my feet.
After the AC I want to slowly build up to some kind of race. At this point I don't even know what I want to do.
you are
going to be active enough the next few
weeks...let's see how your
body responds!