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Peter Noyes 2017 Micro

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  • Hey Coach,

    I have been a bit active the past few weeks and feeling good. I am still at a basement level of fitness, but excited to get back at it. I have figured out what I want to do next year, IM Santa Rosa and the AC 100 again. Here are the key dates:


    Oct - Dec - Training with local trail running group that culminates with a 50k group run at end of December (Low stress, need to run as a team. Will get to spend the night with Dino and Jon getting lost on questionable trails in the middle of absolute nowhere!)
    January 20th - Avalon 50 Miler (Just need to punch the ticket here as a prereq for AC 100)
    May 12th - IM Santa Rosa
    Aug 4th - AC 100

    The first stop on this train is the 50 miler in January. From now through September I want to focus on just getting into reasonable shape by being consistant and slowly adding volume. (I need to start swimming ***shudder***)

    October - Jan would be throwing in trail running. This would be a big weekend run and a weekday evening trail run with the club. I would keep swimming (maybe only 2x week), and biking. Perhaps 3x per week (2 on weekdays and the sunday zwift ride?). I would sprinkle in additional runs to make sure I am doing 4-5 runs per week.

    After the 50 Miler, there are 16 weeks until IM Santa Rosa. At this point I will dive in 100% as a triathlete and not even think about the AC 100.

    After IM Santa Rosa I have 3 months before the AC 100. I think having IM fitness will be a huge advantage going into preparation for AC. The year I did run only training I was in nowhere near the shape I was when I did IM Wisconsin.

    Thoughts?




  • edited August 10, 2017 11:52AM
    @Peter Noyes - so great to have you back. Sounds like you have a bad case of the "Patrick McCrann" syndrome… Whereby you have to do epic things… That get you injured… So you rest… And then sign up for more epic things.  o:)

     Overall I like your plan, but believe it or not the most important thing is what you do in these first six weeks.

    The good news is is that you're already on a good path. 

    ** The most important thing you can do is go back into your training logs and determine what your weekly mileage limit is. ** 

    given the injury that you had, I have to believe that there is some sort of physiological Beyond which running becomes detrimental for you… And if that's the case we work with that number and supplement it with other training so you can pick for a big race without getting broken for a race. I hope that makes sense.

    I am not convinced that you need to start swimming right away other than its great cross training for you and stops you from running too much!early milestones for the next six weeks will include things like this:

    *running 5 to 6 times a week for 30 minutes… That frequency is super important for your durability.

    Start getting on the "three bikes a week" train.  If the Sundays Zwift rides work for you great, but if there's a great outdoor ride you should take advantage of it as well. Should the stars aligned there's nothing wrong with swing in the leg over the bike and riding for five hours… It will hurt but it will get your fitness back up! 

    Are you doing any type of strength training or maintenance work to keep yourself healthy? Let me know.
  • Yeah, I guess I do have a bad case... mostly Dino's fault.

    I like the idea of frequency and these first 6 weeks. Should Just stick to 30' daily for the whole 6 weeks? Or should I do 30' then 35' then 40' etc... 

    Looking at my previous data, I can do 40 miles of road run volume per week no problem. I can also do 60-70 miles of trails no problem. But every time I get over 50 road miles, I end up in trouble. Most likely, I always ramp up too quickly. I have never done a really long slow build.
  • @Peter Noyesthanks for taking the time to look. I'm not so much worried about the what, as I am about the how.

    Let's keep that limit in mind. Right now I like the idea of the building from 30 minutes in week one to 40 minutes and week three...stay there again for week four, then you can go up to 45 minutes and 50 minutes and then we'll see how it feels. Deal?
  • Sounds like a deal. I will consider next week 'week 1'.
  • @Peter Noyes perfect. If anything, it will be interesting to see what type of results we get from a more sequential build up then what you have done in the past. I look forward to following you on Strava!
  • Hey Coach,

    I am now in week 3 of the buildup. I am have been fairly consistent. I have been running at least 4x per week. I am trying to figure out what training might look like from now until Avalon:

    Here is a stab at a training outline:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KwvpfSzwV65PheXYoRYEr2SSarxEbiHbF01rydO6ORs/edit?usp=sharing

    The main structure is I am thinking that after this 6 week build. Switch to a block of:

    3x Bike
    4x runs (Medium Long Run, Threshold, Hilly Trails, Long run on trails)

    And after doing that for a while switch to more race focus with:

    2x bike
    5x runs (Medium Long Run, Threshold, Hilly Trails, Long run on trail, back to back long run)

    The big question is, when should I start swimming?

    How does this spreadsheet look? You should be able to edit it if you want.


  • @Peter Noyes -  thanks for this note. I do big picture season planning stuff once a week and something to put this into my inbox. I'll get you an answer that you can read if you survive the remainder of your trip.   :p  have a great weekend and it's great to see you brushing off the cobwebs
  • @Peter Noyes - okay, finally some time to sit down on this. It looks great and each weekly layout is well organized. PROUD!

    Imade some formatting changes and added in a column for target run mileage as I'd like you think on that a bit. Not to chase but so we can make sure the build is intentional. 

    Right now I don't want to add in swimming until after Avalon. You'll need 2-3 weeks of recovery, and the Swim Camp Plan (more here) would be perfect for that. That's 16 weeks to race and the least of your worries, I swear!!!

    Let me know when the mileage is in and I can revisit.

    ~ Coach P
  • Thanks Coach!

    I added some run mileage targets. The idea is to be at 40mpw at the end of the orange section. The biggest week would be 60mpw.




  • @Peter Noyes - thanks for the update! I added another column with my revised plan for the run. I think it's really important that you have a step down every couple weeks just to consolidate your own fitness. Last Thing we want to do is ramp things up straight through now from race day. Remember you also be riding the bikes you'll have complementary training too. Let me know what you think!
  • I am ok with the modified run targets. Probably better to be conservative because this really isn't my A race and I want to be ready to train for Santa Rosa and not burned out.

    How do you think I should drop the mileage for those recovery weeks? Make all runs a bit short? Or take the mileage all from the weekend long run?
  • I like the long-term view!

    I would really cut the long run by about a third, then any remaining mileage from the other runs equally. That should do it!
  • Hi Coach,

    I am back at it. I have been averaging about 30 miles running per week for the past several weeks. I am doing 2x1 mile in the low 6s. My bike has been somewhat improving. Roughly back to where it was before the LA Marathon, but still very far from what it was in 2015. My CTL is at 53. Also, I had been planning on doing medium long runs on Mondays but so far those haven’t been really working out. I have been taking Monday as a rest day and spreading the missing mileage throughout the week. In a few weeks the medium long run will switch to Tuesdays and then should be more doable.

    I nailed the tryouts for that trail running club. I came in 2nd place and both myself and the guy that beat the course record. It was a 3.3mi run with over 300 ft of climbing.

    The next milestone I have on my radar is a 10k in early December. I want to do well in it. Should I change the 2x1 days coming up to have more 10k specific workouts? Or should I just stay the course and see what happens?

    See you in Zwift!


  • @Peter Noyes thanks for the update brother! I don't see any need for any changes now...you don't need to run a ton more; I'd like you to leave some room so the bike can grow a bit. Not amazingly, but it does add up and you need that as a compliment to what you are doing. 

    And keep that Monday as a day off. Taking a day off is a skill that few of us cultivate...you'll be better off for it. Besides, that's the only day your kid will hug you! :smiley:

    ~ Coach P 
  • Hi Coach P,

    As you may have seen, I sprained my ankle a few weeks ago and had to take 17 days off. I have just started biking again. I am thinking that the 50 Miler on Jan 20 is no longer a good idea. I think my plan is just to bike and Vasa like crazy and slowly return to running as my ankle allows. I would focus 100% on IM Santa Rosa in May. The trick is that I still need to do a 50 miler before the AC 100. I could do one in early July which could be the peak long run as preparation for the AC. Thoughts?
  • @Peter Noyes - I think that is the best course of action. Anything more aggressive than that could lead to some serious complications with your leg which I’m not willing to risk.

    I am excited to see you do a ton of riding right now and get into the Vasa. I think both will prove to be very beneficial for you. We can use the Iron Man to build total fitness and then drive it all into running after the race. That is the safest play. Feel free to go ahead and do some research on future 50 K options.
  • Dear Coach P,

    So February 17th will be 12 weeks out from IM Santa Rosa, I want to check in with you to make sure I am on the right track. Here is where I am at:

    Swim: Vasa has been going well I guess. I am sort of at the end of the acclimation period and now I need to focus on specifiic training. My workouts are 30 minutes. I mostly stay in damper door 1, but at least my cadence is now around 50 (up from 32 when I started). I am thinking I want to gain comfort with damper door 2 for most of my swims and then from there stretch the length to longer than 30 minutes and start doing some workouts. I want to work up to red mist, perhaps by starting with 150x10, 200x10, 250x10 etc... I am still working up the courage to go in a real pool.

    Bike: The bike has been going great. I have averaged 140 miles per week over the past 4 weeks. I had a breakthrough race 2 days ago where I averaged 242NP for 1:13, that set a 3rd all time best 1 hour power. My 5-20min power is still pretty low though. Maybe I need to do more vo2 workouts? For now I am doing 2 races per week on weekdays and 2 weekend rides. Maybe drop 1 of those races and focus on vo2?

    Run: I am basically at the point where I can run 20 minutes non stop. My plan is to start gradually increasing that with 4-5 runs per week so that by Feb 17 I can do 40-50 minute runs with no problems so I can be ready to follow a plan of some kind.

    For the 12 week training plan I was thinking of basically just following the same custom plan you made for me back in 2015 for Wisconsin, it seemed to work well for me. Or should I jump into one of the official Ironman plans?

    P.S. Sorry for all the poop in the groupme... I have problems :(
  • @Peter Noyes -  Great to hear from you anymore than six words, one of them being poop. :-)

    Hard to believe that the race prep fees is looming you, but you’re right to keep an eye towards what’s next. Despite your setback, I feel like your fitness has really come around and you are in a pretty good place heading into this block.

    The swim: I really like you still on the Vaasa and I’m not worried about the pool. It’s just so much easier for your life and I’d rather focus on good frequent swimming Then anything else at this point in time. Rather than forcing damper door two, I suggest that you still spend time at one but work on trying to get that cadence even a little bit higher, say closer to 60 for some 100 repeats. I think 50 on at a high cadence and then 50 off at a lower cadence. Do that three or four times, and then go into a set will you try and hold a slightly higher cadence.  I say this because swimming is really a technique and strength to weight ratio item. Because you are tall and thin you don’t need to put a lot of power into the water to move your body. So being a damper door one is in a limiter per se. But that low cadence is.  I Deleigh by the time you hit April or mid April, you should be comfortable with door number two.

    The bike: I am very pleased about your bike training so far, and that is evidenced by the evolution of your heart rate. I think we can successfully say that your fitness is “back“ on the bike.   We only have so much time to work on your video too, and with about four weeks to go I think you lose nothing by keeping a raise and doing a couple video to stats. So plan on racing early in the week and that second session is a work out where you really challenge yourself with some higher intensity efforts. Please keep the weekends as they are.

    That said, Remember you can always add a little bit of high-intensity into any ride with some sprints. I think the jungle loop is great because every 12 minutes or so you can sprint for a minute into the banner. In an hour there’s five great spencer is there and that might be something you can work in on the weekends.

    the Run -  as I mentioned last week, I’d like you to keep those run walk breaks going. Anything to extend the time you are running is good right now. We don’t need faster per se we just need good study running. Your build into a proper plan will take a bit of time here on the run, and we don’t want to force it early. Hopefully with run walk you’re easily meet your February 17 target. 

     Overall I’m OK with you using that custom plan, but make sure you modified to include time on the Vaasa versus just the pool in to accommodate your run. I’m happy to look at whatever edits you make.
  • Hi Coach P,

    Here is the first crack at a plan (based upon the 2015 one)

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BHPQas2BVVotXN2sYGLPfS98glRjbY-1bI2mW9UezpU/edit?usp=sharing

    For Vasa, I am thinking of doing a Mist progression, a long Endurance, and some kind of workout each week. For the workouts I just put in variations of 100s... not sure what else to try out?

    For the bike I have v02 specific for next 3 weeks, I am thinking of 6x2' at 120%. I will take your advice and throw in tough sprints in weekend rides where possible.

    Feel free to edit and let me know what you think!
  • @Peter Noyes 

    Nice! I am in the doc right now making edits in blue font...they include:
    • A few more swim options
    • Recovery on bike post BBW
    • Recovery on the run during BBW.
    • Also a more gradual run build. This is not going to be your traditional run build....you have the run fitness and knowledge, but you're going to have to lean on your bike this go-round!
    As for the VO2, keep it shorter...to like 1 minute. Try to get it up to 375 to 380 for the repeats to really move your graph. Same when you do "push" segments on Sat/Sun rides (just like 2 or 3), try to get that 1' up to that number with plenty o' rest. 

    ~ Coach P
  • Thanks for taking a look Coach P!

    Question about how to structure a week with 4x Bike and a long Run, what is the best way? Here is my initial thought:

    M: Run / Swim
    T: Bike Race / Run
    W: Swim (Sort of a recovery day)
    Th: Long Run
    F: Bike Race / Brick Run / Swim at Night
    S: Long Bike
    S: Sunday ABP

    This would be the general structure. As time goes on I would add some brick runs to the weekend rides and sprinkle more swims in at night on the various days. Thoughts?? My only concern is that Friday bike race before the weekend.
  • I don’t think that fourth bike has to be hard, you can serve a dual purpose of helping others and of the legs and also build a little bit of endurance. Think of a 2.5 right that you can do all day. That ride isn’t  costly and would fit the bill.

     You could keep that on Friday and then have the Friday freight train rolling forever. 
  • Hi @Coach Patrick

    The race is like 10 weeks away. Ahhhhhh! Things are going well. The ankle is holding up to running, I even ran a few ~6:30 miles the other day and it felt really good and my HR stayed pretty low so I am feeling much better about my run fitness. I am doing most of my runs in the 7:30 - 8:00 range. I think I will keep up with that and once in a while throw in a few faster miles. My dream would be to have 7:30 be my Ironman run target. I want to lock in that pace and see how low I can get my HR.

    I had a breakthrough race this morning and set an all time 20 min power record of 284. That yields an FTP of ~270 which I am very happy with. With that number that means I think I can hone in on a bike target power of around 200 for the Ironman (0.74if). I doubt I will see much more of an increase over the next few weeks.

    For my bike I want to swap out the crank for a Standard (53/39). Right now I have 50/34 and I was really frustrated with it at Wisconsin because I would spin out on the rollers. It sounds like Santa Rosa will be a baby Wisconsin (Lots of rollers and turns, but with 1000k ft less overall) so I want better gearing. I would get an 11/28 cassette to go with it. Does that sound reasonable? Any reason to do 52/36 instead?? Or Yolo 55/42!!! I also want to get 165mm, I like the idea of being able to get into an even more aero position by raising the seat a bit.

    Vasa is going well, although I am not really seeing any power gains anymore. My cadence is > 55 for the most part. It is getting mentally tough to get it done though. For some reason an hour on the trainer is so much easier. Should I start working in some damper door 2 stuff? Could that help breakthrough to some higher power?

    My weight is still low 140s which is 10 pounds higher than Wisconsin. I want to try an experiment and not starve myself this time around and just go with wherever my weight lands. Best Bike Split says losing 10 pounds would save me 2 minutes on the bike so it doesn't seem worth it. I think I will have a better performance by properly fueling leading up to the race.

    Thanks!!

    Yolo 11:11 brobeans.


  • OK, let me see if I can answer all these questions!

    A four bike week should have rides that look like this:

    – Tuesday FTP

    – Wednesday steady-state at .7 AF (60 to 120 minutes)

    - Saturday as planned.

    – Sunday as planned.

    As you go along , you might be able to push the last 30 minutes of that
    Wednesday ride closer to ABP, but no pressure if you do not.

    Overall, however you are at right now. You earned every bit of that ride
    through patience and hard work. The key here is not to get too greedy. Dial
    your steady state numbers up just a little bit to continue to challenge
    yourself. Don’t chase those high numbers every race, if they are they are
    great.

    I like your one plan. You have such a deep run base you don’t need to go to
    fast there and at the end of the day, it is all about heart rate not
    pace.Even if you get your long one piece to a certain level race they will
    limit you to to an hr you can sustain.

    Tell me more about your current gearing. I don’t understand why and 11 or
    10 on the back wouldn’t solve your problems without changing all of your
    gear ratios. Let me know!
  • Hi Coach P,

    Here is the latest checkin. I am 7ish weeks out from IMSR. I decided not to change my bike gearing at all. I am going to start getting some outside riding in on the Tri Bike to get comfortable in Aero. This weekend I will do a couple long rides with at least 1 outside. Run is coming along just fine. This week I jump up to an 18 miler. Vasa is ok other than my bad arm, but it seems to be doing a bit better. My CTL is 111, ~70 of that is on the bike (highest of all time). On Saturday I held 226 NP watts for 3 hours, which is 3.53 w/kg and 0.84 IF! I also have that Moab camp coming up in a few weeks. I will bring road bike for that.

    Questions:

    1. When should I swim in a pool? I keep procrastinating on this. I do have goggles though!
    2. When should I start figuring out my IF and Watts for the race?
    3. What do you think realistically I could do in the Ironman run? My PR is 3:24 (7:48 pace at 149HR). My mileage is low but my HR is pretty good. Last Thursday I did the double 10 mile run. One of them was 7:35 pace with HR of 147, the other was 8:33 pace with HR of 135. 

    Yolo brobeans
  • Thank you for the update bro beans. Overall, your fitness is in a great place right now. The challenge is medium as race-specific as possible given the timeline.

    1 - Let’s get in one good swim a week. After warm-up I want you to predominately use the pullbuoy so you can get in the time in the water and not get too exhausted. I could see something like a total hour of swimming at the Rose Bowl followed by a short run, that’s a good day. Maybe a Friday before you go along on the bike. Otherwise spend that time of the Vaasa. Even a 10 or 15 minute session makes a difference in terms of your technique. 

    2 -  yes you need to start spending more time on the tri bike. If you can put it on the trainer so you can ride in Zwift that’s a great compromise.  You can easily spend time getting used to the aero bars and be indoors.  We will want at least one decent ride outside a week. If I had my way, it will be your Sunday ride after doing all that quality hard work indoors.  Your goal here is just to be ready to handle the two race rehearsal rides outside on your tribe bike and be comfortable.

    3 -  The most important part of this final seven weeks is making sure that all of your nutrition is bulletproof. You should be eating and drinking and every run and every ride as you plan to on race day. This means lots of bottles and Fuelbelt, and bars and chomps, and blocks and bits. Munch munch. 

    4 - Let’s set a target for your first race rehearsal, ideally on the bike path or something similar, around .72 after your first easy bit and let’s see what we get. I would rather use real world numbers to calculate a plan for race day. So that would be in three weeks.

    5 -  The run is hard to say. Remember, I huge part of your performance on the run a race day is a function of pacing and strength on the bike. Given how much stronger you are on the bike right now, there’s a high potential that, if you can handle being in the try position along, that you will still be fast but not have to work too hard. That really opens the door for a good run because you’re TSS will be lower off the bike. That would then allow you to run at a lower heart rate and be faster overall. I think you are right in the ballpark for the same pace run right now in the next 3 to 4 weeks to really determine what happens.

    Don’t be afraid to split this long run as well if required. I would rather you spend two runs at eight minute miles then have that disparity between the two.
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