... thinking some more about this ... maybe should begin Ultra Plan 12/31 (instead of Marathon Plan) and have it end on Rattler ... then next two weeks leading up to Boston is just Recovery?
@Rory Gumina - I really enjoy the podcast to and I can’t wait to publish it, likely next week!
looking at your season progression I think it’s a great balance between fun and achievable. My only concern is getting stronger on the bike in the winter and the run intensity that you mention at the end of your post.
to be fair to your body, I think we might need to have to be a little more granular about how we’re going to apply intensity. I don’t want to go wholesale van hard for cross country and bike hard for raising FTP in the winter. I think you could easily start the out season in January and use that intensity during the week to complement the volume on the weekends as you build into the Radler and Boston. This leaves some opportunity in the fall to play around a bit and get stronger without being too serious.
When you get a second, could you please give me an outline of what the cross country training/Racing would look like?
Cross Cntry training is typically speed work on Tuesdays with my running club. There are 4 races spread over 8 wks (10/7, 10/21, 11/4, 11/18) with 1st 3 being 6K's, and 8K for last one.
This Xcntry "season" is VERY low-key and meant to just be fun for me ... eg. wasn't plng any add'l runs other than what's in Bike Focused Plan ... or whatever Plan we choose to get to end of 2018.
Given above, I'm thinking my #1 goal from now thru Dec. is increasing Bike FTP ... run continuing but very secondary.
If I understand your comment, once Jan19 rolls around, continue bike intensity during the wk, and focus wknds on Run mileage ... tho' I'd like to keep Sat. Hang On ride in the mix for as long as I can.
Not sure if I answered your question ... let me know what you think ... thx @Coach Patrick !
@Rory Gumina - makes sense. I think that we need a BREAK after this year. Two weeks of very little stuff at all. VERY EASY please.
I like the idea of a RDP plan for the fall, with the Ultra plan into Rattler / Boston (smart). We'll need to overlay some quality bike WKOs on top of the RDP block to get you stronger, which will take some doing.
Hey @Coach Patrick ! We got plenty of time for this so ENJOY KONA! ... get back to me after
Below are peak power #'s from TP (no strava for me). I had already loaded up the Bike Focused Plan prior to your reply ... and annoyed my Coach with endless edits ... ;-) ... and included RDP-ish run entries ... close enuf for now? I plan to do Zwift Bike Races/WKOs Mon & Wed ... then Hang On Sat ... as my weekly FAST rides. Bike FTP got up to 236 late 2017, then declined (holidays, illnesses, travel) but rebounded to 229 in run-up to IMLP.
OK, not bad! Mental doubts at beginning about ability to maintain for 13 miles but lo and behold. Cruised for first half, and HR was fine ... but low 60's and breezy here so keeping in perspective.
As you suggested on today's call, will run 3-4 miles tomorrow OTB at 240 watts and see how that goes.
As for niggles, very slight left adductor tightness (e.g. just enuf to make me aware) ... will roll it out now ... slight toe irritation from VF4% ... otherwise all good ... 👍️🤙
Able to maintain 240+ watts on brick run (data below) but only averaged 159 watts for the 56 mile ride prior ... was targeting 190, but route & legs (especially) objected ... still feeling Friday's Run Race Sim a bit.
Yeah I downloaded that calculator after listening to the latest stryd podcast, and getting the email ... good stuff!
Also note that I separately asked Styrd, via note to Robijn / customer service, to suggest an HIM Power Plan for me (given their experience, and my data) ... Robijn did not give me specific input, but did use my question to create a new FAQ on their website ... so ... I got that going for me ... 😏
Seems like $$$ to be made analyzing athlete data and creating specific Power Plans?
Hi @Coach Patrick ! Hope you're enjoying well-earned rest after IMLP Support ... and earning mega Family Approval Units too!
Quick question ... my IMMD race plan has "Camp Week" Aug 23-25 ... any issues if I instead target Aug 16-18? ... I have opportunity to ride with a group that weekend around Seneca and Cayuga Lakes ... it will be hilly (not flat like IMMD) and I'll have to "add on" each day to get 6 hrs/112mi (plus the brick Runs), but am liking the idea of being with a group for this effort.
If you see no issues with above, I assume I will flip-flop current plan wko's for those two weekends.
@Rory Gumina Thank you so much for your kind words. It was a blast, but I was definitely tired by the end of the week. Makes me appreciate the spectators so much more.
I love the idea of flipping camp weekend so you can do it with more people. We don’t need course specificity at this point, we need time on the bike and that’s a great way to do it. Even with the “add on” model, you can modify things at the end to reach your specific goals. The most important thing from the endeavor is to just remember to stay safe. Sometimes writing with a new group can be a little sketchy!
Let’s go through that weekend and then see what, if any, modifications we want to make to the next weekend.
OK, great! ... I have drafted IMMD race plan and will be using that for "camp wknd" ... will ping you here and FinalSurge with post-wko comments. Then we can tweak the following week as necessary.
PS - am really enjoying, and learning from, the Weekly Videos you've done for the Half/Full plans!
Well, this "camp week" was different from my LP Camp experiences past 2 years. Was hotter for sure, and rides were lower miles/time/tss (much of this due to group riding). Brick runs were similar miles/time but lower tss. Sat. ride had hard rain last 1hr, which delayed run till after drive home.
Severe right hamstring cramp as soon as I tried to get out of the car after the ride home ... am thinking just due to sitting for an hour immediately after the ride ... didn't run/stretch prior due to rain.
Legs were dead for Sunday run, and I couldn't achieve the power targets ... "mental" stress was very IM-like ... so I got that going for me ... ;-)
Am trusting the work done though, despite less-than-stellar experience.
Am bringing my bike in to get tuned-up today, and then follow with fit-check.
Will go very short/easy run only today. From Tue. on am thinking to follow the "Post Camp Week" wko's.
Sorry for all the words ... let me know any comments you have @Coach Patrick !
Sounds to me like you’re solid year and quality training cycle has you carrying a bit more fatigued than normal. I’m not sure what your data says but it sounds like you could use a little bit of extra rest. If you find that to be the case, such as your training load is much higher than in years past, I would prefer that you rest sooner rather than later as additional rest in the final two weeks is always a challenge to staying sharp.
The easiest way to do this is to make sure that you factor in some reSt during your week. That could mean taking Monday and Friday as swim only, or taking either one of them completely off. Any thoughts as to which you prefer?
I was also curious about fatigue, so created some charts in TP to compare ramps for IMMT (2017), IMLP (2018), and current. Looking at same timeframes (wks 12-7 out from IM) bike mileage & TSS are def greater this year ... Run miles also greater, but TSS is lower than IMLP ramp. Overall, Fatigue looks actually lower than last year ... but there's no denying that last year's camp week (albeit 1 wk later in my ramp) was able to produce better results. (pwd Tri4Kona if you want to check them out)
Am still maintaining consecutive days running streak ... perhaps it has outlived it's usefulness? (was planning to end with IMMD) ... mentally it feels great/confidence maintaining ... but if it's hurting physically then it should end ... what do you think?
Above obviously impacts adding rest days ... I would like to swim at least one of Mon/Fri ... and take the other one completely off (save for very ez run if continuing consec running is still valuable).
@Rory Gumina I think we are looking at a yearlong issue (really focused, long time) and not a specific issue (that week or phase or ramp was too much). So this isn't acute fatigue we need to shed, but it is fatigue we need to manage.
I would say that we make your Mondays OFF as in a short 2 mile run, done. Sleep in. Get like 10 hours of sleep, do the run early if you wake up Before your alarm or later when you get Home Before dinner.
This way you can keep the Friday swim...and lets see how that impacts this upcoming Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday cycle; deal?!
Sounds good @Coach Patrick ! BTW, yesterday's Red Mist swim, and today's Century ride + Brick run felt soooo much better! Confidence is back, so will get to work on tomorrow's 2hr run and see if can execute power plan.
Then nothing Mon. except very ez run ... 😀
Thanks!!!!!!!!!
PS ... we have a call scheduled for Tues where I want to: Confirm Plans for 3hr Run, and Race Rehearsal ride, and talk about Taper/Consolidation duration ... talk with you then!
See data below to confirm plan for Race Rehearsal ride ... for our phone discussion today ... ftp 236 ... 1st half 60%-65% (140-155 watts) … 2nd half 65%-70% (155-165 watts) ... how would I create TSS Budget for each half?
3 hr Run: 1st 6 miles - 200-209 watts ... add walks to drink & eat; then 210-215 ok for remainder ... but if feel good 2x1mi @ 235-240 ... target 18mi total
Ride Race Rehearsal: 1st half ride strong (75% IF, 140-150 TSS budget); then reduce to 70% for next 35-40 mi; then reduce to 65% for remaining (2nd half TSS 125-135)
Final 2wks Taper/Consolidation: see how I feel, do shorter/harder (higher intensity) stuff ... e.g. for Run 9:20-9:30 pace, high hands and cadence
Run RR executed as above, incl. Walk breaks every mile to eat/drink, except no 2x1 mi @ 235-240
Yesterday:
Bike RR followed spirit of above and worked well mentally (hard for 1st half, then back off). Each "flat" loop (to simulate IMMD) had 2 turns and 8 stops/slows for cross-roads, so challenging to maintain hit /maintain Power targets, but 1st half NP 155, 2nd half 145
And 1 hr Brick Run following maintained "low power" target, same as need for the race.
Bottom line: confidence building, especially yesterday(!) ... will need to dial-in Nutrition/Hydration once IMMD Temp. is better known ... and between now and race, taper/consolidate with shorter wko's but with some high-intensity thrown in
The work looks great. The IMMD Course is challenging specifically because it is flat, so you don’t have the “resistance” of hills to help keep the water. This will require you to be a little crafty with your gearing to make sure you can keep pressure on the pedals.
Remember that you want to stand up for 30 seconds to a minute every half hour in a bigger deer just to stretch out the back. This is also the time to try and Pee.
For all intents and purposes, it looks like Maryland is going to be a hot one so I would plan accordingly for the nutrition plan.
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.
Last updated by Coach on November 19, 2019
On 10/28/2019 Load the OutSeason (Bike Focus) Plan, 14wks to end on 02/02/2020
On 2/3/2020 Load the 2019 Marathon, 16 Weeks to end on 5/24/2020
On 5/25/2020 Load the Post Marathon / Half Marathon Plan (2wks) to end on 06/07/2020
On 6/8/2020 Load the EN Half Bike Focused to end on 7/19/2020
On 7/20/2020 Load the Post Half Iron Transition Plan, All Levels (2wks) to end on 08/02/2020
On 8/3/2020 Load the Post Half Iron Transition Plan, All Levels (2wks) to end on 08/16/2020
Comments
... Reviewing Plans on Final Surge results in following updated thinking (all subject to your input!!):
Thx for your feedback @Coach Patrick !
... thinking some more about this ... maybe should begin Ultra Plan 12/31 (instead of Marathon Plan) and have it end on Rattler ... then next two weeks leading up to Boston is just Recovery?
@Rory Gumina - I really enjoy the podcast to and I can’t wait to publish it, likely next week!
looking at your season progression I think it’s a great balance between fun and achievable. My only concern is getting stronger on the bike in the winter and the run intensity that you mention at the end of your post.
to be fair to your body, I think we might need to have to be a little more granular about how we’re going to apply intensity. I don’t want to go wholesale van hard for cross country and bike hard for raising FTP in the winter. I think you could easily start the out season in January and use that intensity during the week to complement the volume on the weekends as you build into the Radler and Boston. This leaves some opportunity in the fall to play around a bit and get stronger without being too serious.
When you get a second, could you please give me an outline of what the cross country training/Racing would look like?
Cross Cntry training is typically speed work on Tuesdays with my running club. There are 4 races spread over 8 wks (10/7, 10/21, 11/4, 11/18) with 1st 3 being 6K's, and 8K for last one.
This Xcntry "season" is VERY low-key and meant to just be fun for me ... eg. wasn't plng any add'l runs other than what's in Bike Focused Plan ... or whatever Plan we choose to get to end of 2018.
Given above, I'm thinking my #1 goal from now thru Dec. is increasing Bike FTP ... run continuing but very secondary.
If I understand your comment, once Jan19 rolls around, continue bike intensity during the wk, and focus wknds on Run mileage ... tho' I'd like to keep Sat. Hang On ride in the mix for as long as I can.
Not sure if I answered your question ... let me know what you think ... thx @Coach Patrick !
@Rory Gumina - makes sense. I think that we need a BREAK after this year. Two weeks of very little stuff at all. VERY EASY please.
I like the idea of a RDP plan for the fall, with the Ultra plan into Rattler / Boston (smart). We'll need to overlay some quality bike WKOs on top of the RDP block to get you stronger, which will take some doing.
You have 3 x 4 weeks (-ish) for the rest of the year so we can get creative with the bike work you are doing. First, rest. Then tell me about your FTP this year as well as your peak values for the following times Using your strava data here:https://www.strava.com/athlete/analysis (info on this here: https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/216918507-Using-your-Best-Efforts-Power-Curve-Summit-)
Thanks!
~ Coach P
Hey @Coach Patrick ! We got plenty of time for this so ENJOY KONA! ... get back to me after
Below are peak power #'s from TP (no strava for me). I had already loaded up the Bike Focused Plan prior to your reply ... and annoyed my Coach with endless edits ... ;-) ... and included RDP-ish run entries ... close enuf for now? I plan to do Zwift Bike Races/WKOs Mon & Wed ... then Hang On Sat ... as my weekly FAST rides. Bike FTP got up to 236 late 2017, then declined (holidays, illnesses, travel) but rebounded to 229 in run-up to IMLP.
Hi @Coach Patrick , I've scheduled a call for us (via calendly) for Thurs. May 16 to talk about Bike and Run power plans for Eagleman.
My Run RR is the next day so can put the Run plan to the test immediately.
Talk with you then! ... I think you can get to all my data in FS and TP but let me know if you need anything else from me prior ... Thanks!
Just confirm your TP.com username for me...and chat with you then!
~ Coach P
Tri4Kona
Data for our call tomorrow:
Run Power (Stryd CP = 257 watts):
Erie Mary Plan: Miles 1-6: 227 watts; 7-20: 236; 21+: 243
Erie Actuals: 1-6: 230; 7-20: 241; 21+: 245
FS Race Sim: 1-5: 227-232; 6-10: 241-249; 11+: 255-269
Bike Power: Zwift FTP 236 (+4 bump 4 days ago)
RR Fri./Sat. May 4-5 (custom wko): 30 min (9 miles) wu avg. 115 watts; 47 miles avg 179 watts;
Fri. 7 mile Run: 3 miles avg 225 watts; 4 miles avg 245; ... overall 235
Sat. 3 mile Run: avg 237 watts
OK, not bad! Mental doubts at beginning about ability to maintain for 13 miles but lo and behold. Cruised for first half, and HR was fine ... but low 60's and breezy here so keeping in perspective.
As you suggested on today's call, will run 3-4 miles tomorrow OTB at 240 watts and see how that goes.
As for niggles, very slight left adductor tightness (e.g. just enuf to make me aware) ... will roll it out now ... slight toe irritation from VF4% ... otherwise all good ... 👍️🤙
@Rory Gumina
Oven low HR thru mile 12. If it’s hot as hell its all about staying cool and your fitness will still help, I promise.
how was the brick run?
Also, here is a link to the sheet that helps with pacing a stryd in Heat and Humidiity...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KU9U6QdjWlvmsQXVsCj1AnKEzywNL0Hq5yXIwOcYLF8/edit?fbclid=IwAR1L2WXi8j_9LGITEt9Hbw3GFp3IpefbewFyJEpFgmrHQ9xf4Ln5YA3LPkk#gid=0
Able to maintain 240+ watts on brick run (data below) but only averaged 159 watts for the 56 mile ride prior ... was targeting 190, but route & legs (especially) objected ... still feeling Friday's Run Race Sim a bit.
Yeah I downloaded that calculator after listening to the latest stryd podcast, and getting the email ... good stuff!
Also note that I separately asked Styrd, via note to Robijn / customer service, to suggest an HIM Power Plan for me (given their experience, and my data) ... Robijn did not give me specific input, but did use my question to create a new FAQ on their website ... so ... I got that going for me ... 😏
Seems like $$$ to be made analyzing athlete data and creating specific Power Plans?
Hi @Coach Patrick ! Hope you're enjoying well-earned rest after IMLP Support ... and earning mega Family Approval Units too!
Quick question ... my IMMD race plan has "Camp Week" Aug 23-25 ... any issues if I instead target Aug 16-18? ... I have opportunity to ride with a group that weekend around Seneca and Cayuga Lakes ... it will be hilly (not flat like IMMD) and I'll have to "add on" each day to get 6 hrs/112mi (plus the brick Runs), but am liking the idea of being with a group for this effort.
If you see no issues with above, I assume I will flip-flop current plan wko's for those two weekends.
Let me know ... Thanks!
@Rory Gumina Thank you so much for your kind words. It was a blast, but I was definitely tired by the end of the week. Makes me appreciate the spectators so much more.
I love the idea of flipping camp weekend so you can do it with more people. We don’t need course specificity at this point, we need time on the bike and that’s a great way to do it. Even with the “add on” model, you can modify things at the end to reach your specific goals. The most important thing from the endeavor is to just remember to stay safe. Sometimes writing with a new group can be a little sketchy!
Let’s go through that weekend and then see what, if any, modifications we want to make to the next weekend.
OK, great! ... I have drafted IMMD race plan and will be using that for "camp wknd" ... will ping you here and FinalSurge with post-wko comments. Then we can tweak the following week as necessary.
PS - am really enjoying, and learning from, the Weekly Videos you've done for the Half/Full plans!
😎
Well, this "camp week" was different from my LP Camp experiences past 2 years. Was hotter for sure, and rides were lower miles/time/tss (much of this due to group riding). Brick runs were similar miles/time but lower tss. Sat. ride had hard rain last 1hr, which delayed run till after drive home.
Severe right hamstring cramp as soon as I tried to get out of the car after the ride home ... am thinking just due to sitting for an hour immediately after the ride ... didn't run/stretch prior due to rain.
Legs were dead for Sunday run, and I couldn't achieve the power targets ... "mental" stress was very IM-like ... so I got that going for me ... ;-)
Am trusting the work done though, despite less-than-stellar experience.
Am bringing my bike in to get tuned-up today, and then follow with fit-check.
Will go very short/easy run only today. From Tue. on am thinking to follow the "Post Camp Week" wko's.
Sorry for all the words ... let me know any comments you have @Coach Patrick !
THANKS AS ALWAYS!!!
Sounds to me like you’re solid year and quality training cycle has you carrying a bit more fatigued than normal. I’m not sure what your data says but it sounds like you could use a little bit of extra rest. If you find that to be the case, such as your training load is much higher than in years past, I would prefer that you rest sooner rather than later as additional rest in the final two weeks is always a challenge to staying sharp.
The easiest way to do this is to make sure that you factor in some reSt during your week. That could mean taking Monday and Friday as swim only, or taking either one of them completely off. Any thoughts as to which you prefer?
I was also curious about fatigue, so created some charts in TP to compare ramps for IMMT (2017), IMLP (2018), and current. Looking at same timeframes (wks 12-7 out from IM) bike mileage & TSS are def greater this year ... Run miles also greater, but TSS is lower than IMLP ramp. Overall, Fatigue looks actually lower than last year ... but there's no denying that last year's camp week (albeit 1 wk later in my ramp) was able to produce better results. (pwd Tri4Kona if you want to check them out)
Am still maintaining consecutive days running streak ... perhaps it has outlived it's usefulness? (was planning to end with IMMD) ... mentally it feels great/confidence maintaining ... but if it's hurting physically then it should end ... what do you think?
Above obviously impacts adding rest days ... I would like to swim at least one of Mon/Fri ... and take the other one completely off (save for very ez run if continuing consec running is still valuable).
Let me know, thx @Coach Patrick !!!
@Rory Gumina I think we are looking at a yearlong issue (really focused, long time) and not a specific issue (that week or phase or ramp was too much). So this isn't acute fatigue we need to shed, but it is fatigue we need to manage.
I would say that we make your Mondays OFF as in a short 2 mile run, done. Sleep in. Get like 10 hours of sleep, do the run early if you wake up Before your alarm or later when you get Home Before dinner.
This way you can keep the Friday swim...and lets see how that impacts this upcoming Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday cycle; deal?!
~ Coach P
Sounds good @Coach Patrick ! BTW, yesterday's Red Mist swim, and today's Century ride + Brick run felt soooo much better! Confidence is back, so will get to work on tomorrow's 2hr run and see if can execute power plan.
Then nothing Mon. except very ez run ... 😀
Thanks!!!!!!!!!
PS ... we have a call scheduled for Tues where I want to: Confirm Plans for 3hr Run, and Race Rehearsal ride, and talk about Taper/Consolidation duration ... talk with you then!
See data below to confirm plan for Race Rehearsal ride ... for our phone discussion today ... ftp 236 ... 1st half 60%-65% (140-155 watts) … 2nd half 65%-70% (155-165 watts) ... how would I create TSS Budget for each half?
@Rory Gumina great call!! Keep me posted on the Race Sim!
RG path fwd from our Call:
PERFECTO! That's exactly what I am thinking. Use those walk breaks to refocus, etc!
@Coach Patrick update ...
Last Week:
Yesterday:
Bottom line: confidence building, especially yesterday(!) ... will need to dial-in Nutrition/Hydration once IMMD Temp. is better known ... and between now and race, taper/consolidate with shorter wko's but with some high-intensity thrown in
IMMD ... Bring it on!
The work looks great. The IMMD Course is challenging specifically because it is flat, so you don’t have the “resistance” of hills to help keep the water. This will require you to be a little crafty with your gearing to make sure you can keep pressure on the pedals.
Remember that you want to stand up for 30 seconds to a minute every half hour in a bigger deer just to stretch out the back. This is also the time to try and Pee.
For all intents and purposes, it looks like Maryland is going to be a hot one so I would plan accordingly for the nutrition plan.
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.
Your Notes
2019 IMMDwk 2 of Bike OS
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P