No, I think you are on the right path. Stick with the marathon plan and we will just have to do some nifty moves to get you from marathon Finishline into the out season with the rest of the gang. 👍
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
• Ironman St. George - North American Championships (2020-05-02) #IMSG_20 05/02/2020
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.
Last updated by Coach on September 25, 2019
On 10/28/2019 Load the OutSeason for Triathletes (Bike Focus) Plan, 14wks to end on 2/2/2020
On 2/3/2020 Load the -- Swim Camp to end on 2/9/2020
On 2/10/2020 Load the -- EN*Full Bike Focused to end on 5/3/2020
On 5/4/2020 Load the Post Ironman Transition Plan, All Levels (4wks) to end on 5/31/2020
Your Notes
In 2019, I raced 2 70.3: Connecticut in 5h39 and Maine in 5h44. I had never broken 6h before, so this was an improvement and I felt in each race I had a bit more in the tank. I finished the year very energized and motivated.
In 2018, I did my only full IM at Tremblant in 13h28 (which puts me in level 2 ability by a full 2 long minutes)I am currently following the Balanced Marathon plan on the odd chance I get a bib for the NYC marathon. If I dont, I think that will give me some good running base anyway.
I wanted to give an update on progress; I have followed the plan above, targeting IMStG. As always there are ups and downs so let me summarize before I get to the questions:
Schedule: Bit challenging, several work changes have meant that I have had work calls very early and irregular schedule. The OS has gone reasonably well apart from missing completely 2 weeks over xmas through international travel.
Swim: almost nothing done, I tried to keep one session a week around 2km. The good news is that I seem to be able to swim with no pain (I have had shoulder surgery in the past and dating back to my last race at Maine 70.3 I had significant pain / weakness)
Bike: I have a good routine though I diverge slightly from the plan in that I don't formally test; I use wko5 to feed the data and see how my mFTP evolve to move my zwift FTP accordingly on a more frequent basis. It means that I can replace the formal test week with a a repeat of that last week that feels very productive, but closer to the race I would need to either be conservative or test to get my race target watts. I think I am about 270w FTP which is about 30w more than when I did Mt Tremblant so overall happy + I seem to fail less sessions than during the tremblant build (I do struggle with the VO2 style, while I tend to feel there is more left in the tank on the saturday 2h30~3h sessions which for what I am targeting may be ok). The zwift thing makes it engaging so there is no issue in finding the motivation.
Run: I really want to be good at that; I have long term marathon goals, etc. Yet I struggle to get motivated and I am not getting the progress that would feed into the motivation. I am stuck at my pace, my stryd power curve could not be flatter and I just cant seem to raise my speed without running out of breath. I train all indoor right now due to my schedule and this may be part of the problem. I find that on TM, changing pace is hard, strides almost impossible to do safely. I am also very worried about the hills in StG since adding even 1% of extra incline on the TM feels very difficult. I currently train at 2% incline after recently raising from 1% - that was / is very unpleasant. I also struggle with anything longer than 45 mins - again could be the mental drain on the TM and the claustrophobic nature of being on a small space where your stride is imposed on yourself.
Now for the questions:
StG seems to be tough on both bike and run, but maybe I underestimate the bike as the run scares me even more. As I get into the Full plan, should I keep it as bike focused as planned or run focused? I see arguments for both since the bike sessions feel easy to bank right now and are really enjoyable (what would I not do for a zwift level up), but on the other side I could benefit from gaining more confidence on the run.
Any advice on how to get prepared for the hills on the run or generally to get stronger on the run? I read some parts are at 7%, that sounds scary. I am wondering whether I need to pair that with more formal strength / conditioning to help with that. I have not planned post IMStG but almost surely that will be a run focus and try and get my marathon time down (only attempt was 4:08 10 years ago and my 1:48 half implies I should be able to break 4).
@Julien P - thank you for reaching out and for the update. Can't say enough how much that is helpful for me.
Swim - Should be the first to go right now, so no worries. We will need 2x a week by mid-Feb...so start planning for that. Is there any shoulder stuff you can do now to prepare for the effects / fatigue of swimming?
The Bike - This is great news. I think using the mFTP can really help you stay focused. I want you to be tired post workout but not "shelled" and unable to workout the next day. If you have extra energy on the weekends, maybe work in a Zwift ride / race? I personally will race then ride steady...the race seems to "set" in early fatigue that doesn't make the rest of the long ride impossible, more like suitably hard.
The Run - Yes, according to the folks in the IMSG Group Me, the run there is legit. Here is a snapshot: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31802458 I think there are core sections with steep pitches; but it's not insurmountable. I would modify your treadmill training by alternating 1 miles at race pace with 2' to 3' walking briskly at 5% incline (12:00/mile pace?) then back to running. This will let you run as you need to but also help you target the glutes and develop some strength. Eventually you will need to get outside and run on the open road to be ready.
In terms of the plan, the bike focus is still where it's at, but we will need to keep the run frequency up and continue integrating hills as outlined ^above^ on your long and/or easy runs (intervals on flats please).
And let's start following our race nutrition plan by mid-February as you enter those final two weeks.
I have transferred my St George entry to Lake Placid (July 26th) and like many I am working from home with no pool; this means more flexibility in bike and run but no swim.
I would be keen to hear how I should modify the plan; I assume that for LP folks the IM plan starts early May (maybe May 4th), what should I do until then?
For the LP race, I think that the profile is not radically dissimilar to the StG one so would remain focused on Bike(? still Bike Focus IM plan?) and the run may be a bit easier but still quite hilly. I will read the EN wiki pages on that but would be great if you can advise on plan changes and immediate focus.
@Julien P - You're not alone in this transition, as difficult as it may seem. Just a heads up that @Steve boer and @Kori Martini are doing the same thing! Fingers crossed that all of you get to do the race. I have modified your training plan through Lake Placid by leveraging our "prep" block as an intermediate plan to bridge you to the race preparation plan which starts on May 4th.
Head over to Final Surge and check it out!
Only other modification we might want to consider is building in some strength training to replace the work that you are missing in the pool. We have a basic functional strength program available in the training plan library, which you can check out. Unless you want to do something else?
Thank you @Coach Patrick - makes a lot of sense. I will also try the functional strength program since that is easy to slot in now while working from home.
I assume that the 4th may race prep will be to load the full IM bike focused plan (i.e. the same one I had planned for St George)
@Julien P - yes, you are correct. We will start the race prep building may using the same plan that you have outlined for St. George. As I was saying to the other athletes, it's just as important to stay focused on the fact that you have built great fitness thus far this year.
Losing a race doesn't take away anything from you now, so we refocus and continue working towards a longer-term goal. Should you need help with your plan or making any adjustments, don't hesitate to reach out.
Quick update: from a training point of view, things are going ok. Working from home and with a very good setup for indoor training has meant I can put some good focus and have logged some hours that would otherwise have been hard to manage. I also had a very good review with @matt limbert and @Tom Glynn on WKO5 that has given me a different way to look at sessions.
From next week, the IM full program starts for IM Lake Placid. There are 2 reasons why I feel I probably need to adjust the program:
1) The plan naturally brings in swim sessions and I will not be able to do them to their fullest (I have a home pool, so I can simulate with the swim cords on the ankles but not for one hour sessions several times a week). I think I should probably do cords and use the freed up time for more bike/run volume. A bit like what I am doing now in fact.
2) Rather than get myself stuck again into a "will it / won't it happen" on LP (almost sure it wont), maybe I could get to set my objective to chase my PDC and tweak workouts to match optimized training from WKO5 to push that curve up and make that the goal rather than a race. Then maybe tune it back when regular swimming is possible and looking at race schedule is even possible. At this rate this could be after outseason..
Does this make sense? Should I just keep plodding along or modify as per above?
@Julien P - thanks so much for checking in and for giving me clarity. I'm glad to hear you've connected with some of our smartest members to learn more about the potential you have for Building fitness and getting stronger. I have some ideas on what you can do in a second.
First, let's talk about the swim. I agree they're doing all of that work in a pool with a swim tether does not make sense -- I do believe that adding in swim work is an essential part of your mid season fitness. And should there be an event later this year it's nice to have the upper body strength and fluency to handle it. I would recommend doing two sessions in a pool of 15 to 20 minutes long and then some dryland work to other days. Call it a total of an hour of work Between the pool and dry land. That would be a great baseline for you.
You are an interest in crossroads right now with regards to your bike Fitness. It's time for you to begin considering a move towards more endurance work, but the event itself is up in the air. Chasing the PDC as you have described is a great activity, and I think we can almost merge the two.
I could see some kind of a modified week where your Tuesday and Thursday bike workouts are dedicated to wards challenging yourself on the PDC. Wednesday is an easy steady run so as not to disrupt the work you're doing on the bike. The weekend then would have a longer steady bike in the 3 to 4 hour range with minimal work. Just to be the opposite point of what you're doing during the week. Of course we would have a long run there as well.
We have the benefit of doing this because Monday and Friday would be very very light. They could even be flexible if it would be easier for you to do a run or a bike on one of those other days instead of on the weekend, for example.
Feel free to load up the full plan and then we can drag and drop things around to create a good template week for you to follow. How does that sound?
That sounds great thank you. I will follow this template for the next few weeks until there is a bit more clarity on what the race schedule looks like.
I have been working on raising my PDC and targeting intervals accordingly. I have been able to raise my mFTP about 15-20 watts (realised in the process that my prior estimate was not based on a balanced curve, so my current mFTP of 250 is lower than I have reached but I feel stronger overall). Now I am struggling to make more gains especially anything longer than 20 minutes.
I am following the structure of the "get faster" plan and tweak the interval time and intensity to fit what is closest to what WKO5 is recommending; I err on the lower watts until I prove I can complete a workout (rather than try for higher watts and have to bail out).
To mix it up, I might try to add some run focus (hopefully not reducing too much the cycling effort). I have wanted to become a better runner and reach a few milestones (20min 5K, 1:40 half, 3:30 marathon and eventually BQ but that's longer term). My PRs on the pure running side are a bit meh.
Do you think I should follow the same structure and do a short speed (10x400 style) + tempo + long, or look at more low intensity / high volume (or mix it)? I am still working from home probably through the summer so I want to make the most of the extra time I have at hand.
On the race front, as you know LP is postponed, as no options have been put out I am still not clear when I will race - I may take a 2021 option (esp considering the race procedures IM have published don't make me feel this is going to be a wonderful experience..). If that is the case, I may go full on run focus and try for a fall marathon - that's assuming they are held.
@Julien P - good to hear from you! Building your strength up to the 20 minute mark is impressive. But the goal isn't just to hit 20 minutes, if that makes sense. For example, you should be able to do up to 75 minutes of work at that threshold level. That would look like something along the lines of 5 x 15 minutes, or 3 x 25 minutes. In other words, developing your threshold power is not just about pushing that one number up. You can also extend your accomplishments in the threshold zone by pushing the cumulative time of an entire training session to be longer.
Glad you are focused on hitting the numbers before you move on. As an example, I am following a similar protocol where I'm pushing my threshold numbers longer, not necessarily higher. This is a complementary type of workout to the higher intensity stuff that you've already done. I started off with 3 x 10 minutes, then did 4 x 9 minutes, then 3 x 12 minutes. So 30', 36', 36'. This week I will try to break 40 minutes at those zones....but note I already had one "do over" week in there...
Put this into perspective, I estimate my threshold to be around 385 W. But I'm doing these intervals at 365 W which is where WKO says my functional threshold is. So these are hard work but they're not all out sessions like an FTP test.
I would suggest you make the switch to this extensive (longer) interval work while you attack the run. Since you push the bike numbers up, we can focus on cementing those games. This will flatten the training though do you have from the bike, and give you a little bit of wiggle room on the run. The progression we have for running as of the season is very effective. You will find it in the run focused half plan and it follows a similar protocol as you have described. Short, fast work that builds incrementally by week.
You can preview the Half Run Focused plan to see those workouts and overlay them into your regular training...
As for late season races, I agree. There's just not enough certainty for me to commit, and the potential health risks are significant for my older relatives. I don't for see a situation where I will be completely comfortable participating in an event until we either have a vaccine or a much better understanding of what the risks are. I think completing your summer with a baseline Level of faster cycling and running i'll create some room for some for distance where you could attack the 13.1 or 26.2 challenge. We would have to make that call by early August, just so you know.
To clarify on my comment, I am for sure trying to make progress at longer intervals than 20 mins, it is just that while my curves straddles the model PDC at short end, I find it very hard between ~15 mins to 1h and the recommended target watts to hit feel barely achievable. Somehow at the very long end it gets better.
The solution you recommend makes complete sense - I will switch to focus on time in zone and build that up for a few weeks. Also at the same time I will look at the run half plan, that looks like a good motivating plan balancing structure with some run focus.
For me that will be increasing time at FTP (i.e. at 250 in erg) and going thru 4x7', 3x9', 4x8', 3x10', 4x9' thru 5x15'.
I also saw the bike program over 5 weeks with Inscyd testing - I cant commit for a 5 week program now as things at work can change anytime, but I am very interested in the Inscyd test if there is a possibility. I am curious what that would reveal and what that would mean for the most impactful focus. Is this something that will open up to the team more generally?
Talk about crushing it! Nice work. We will have a longer form report for you tomorrow, we are just excited to get you an initial look at your numbers. We just had to get them too you early.👊
VO2Max 60.6
FTP: 274 W, which is 87.1% of your VO2max - just about perfect
4.2 W/kg
VLaMax 0.31 (scale of 0-1)
First off, your execution was good. Thanks for those comments about the intervals that "story" helps put the numbers in perspective. Your heart rate really shows how much you were pushing it, plus your comments about all time bests and results relative to your PDC.
You are probably saying, "What is this VLaMax that you speak of?" Well, VLaMax is one of the new metrics that we will talk about with the INSCYD testing. That what this week is all about. VLamax → V = flow rate. La = Lactate. Max = Maximum. For now, think about it the brother to VO2Max. Where VO2Max is measure of the your maximal oxygen consumption for aerobic power. VLaMax is your maximium rate of lactate generation for anaerobic power. Endurance athletes want a low number, Sprinters want a high number. It is totally trainable, just like VO2Max.
For the record, the last class nicknamed it "Vlama." Feel free to jump into the GroupMe, ask questions (or boast about) those numbers.
We will have a longer report for you tomorrow with some more details about VLaMax, how to change it, where you fit on the scale, etc and we will talk more during our video call Wed.
It's interesting how it matches and differs from WKO5. My FTP looks much higher on Inscyd (253 on WKO though the tests alone brought FTP up by 6W so directionally makes sense). Having said that when I look at my curve, the 3 testing points (10", 3', 6') are around my 4.1 w/kg curve. The 10' test is a bit below but I can see why INSCYD based on these 4 points feels I should be able to push 275W. From my curve below, I am being let down by the longer end of the curve - maybe something I will have to work on after the camp (the purple areas at the bottom are MMP distance to year best so I have this well flattened in the test ranges)
Looking forward to go through the numbers and in the mean time I will update my FTP and start working harder!
Following the webinar and looking at my numbers, I wanted to confirm that I interpret this correctly (my focus is on improvements at HIM/IM distances mostly).
VO2Max 60.6
FTP: 274 W, which is 87.1% of your VO2max - just about perfect
4.2 W/kg
VLaMax 0.31 (scale of 0-1)
1) There seems not to be an awful lot of juice to squeeze on reducing VLaMax (though a weekly low gear session probably wouldn't hurt)
2) my FTP as a % of VO2max is rather high (from what I hear from your numbers or the ones discussed in the webinar), so maybe the biggest gain is on increasing that VO2max number itself - this would reduce that percentage and hence show some possibility to raise that threshold.
Does that make sense? It's all very interesting and looking forward to next weeks
You are right. Short answer VO2 work is your easier target.
Long answer is a bit more complicated and more deliberate "season" approach in terms of focus per training block. You can get that layered or sequential benefit by focusing on VO2 then switching to VLamax. Inverse of Gripel prep for the tour. You build VO2 and power first, then race specific VLamax while trying to extend your VO2 fitness.
Raising your VO2max will be the biggest gain. How to do that is the key - and what we will be talking more about at camp. There are lots of interval options for increasing VO2. If you take the long approach you can do almost any kind of VO2 intervals - including the short stuff like 30/30 and 40/20. You may see a slight increase in VLaMax, but you could get that down in the next phase of training. You could do the outseason and use a progression of VO2 work - including short stuff, transistioning to longer intervals 3' -6' to 8' minutes. Get all you can out of VO2, then do a block focused on reducing your VLaMax - while doing maintenance VO2 work, then you get layered gains from both.
You most likely are never going to be a big time sprinter like Carl, so your gains in strength and developing more capacity to do some anaerobic work will make you a better rider overall. So while you might see a slight temporary increase in VLaMax while you do all things VO2. You can do a follow on block of focused VLaMax work to decrease your VLamax and roll into a race specificity block with IM race pace, tempo, and dialing in the fueling (which we will cover in 2 weeks from now).
I am currently running at: FTP 255, VO2 Long ON 120% OFF 50%
[My approach to implement the camp recommendations has been to treat first week as just rehearsal: to ensure I am best prepared to tackle the tough workouts. I tried to start with the 2.x workouts, but should have be more conservative. So first week I did a variety of workouts across VO2 Long, Lactate Shuttle, VO2 short and VLaMax - mostly overestimating what I could achieve. I am at a stage where 1.0 workouts is plenty tough and the step to 2.1 looks steep.]
Now I am starting the training block 1 officially this week which includes VO2 Long (that I tuned down from 125% to 120%) and Lactate Shuttle. So far, I tried the VO2 Long 2.1 (3x4') this morning. I could not finish but it was not an utter failure (had to stop in the middle of interval 2 and 3 but spent the time at intensity - I had enough to do a series of VO2 short at the end to try and get more used to the intensity):
I plan on staying at the 2.1 level until I clear it (or maybe create a 2.0 level that would be 4x3' as transition). I would try and go onto each of VO2 Long and Lactate Shuttle as rested as possible and maybe give it another shot in case of failure over the weekend.
Let me know if this approach makes sense; feels like reducing further the FTP would become counterproductive (already down 20W so not sure how it impacts zones) so I need to figure out ways to get these done and climb back.
@Julien P I am interested in @matt limbert 's reply, but in my mind you are doing it right. Breaking it down into manageable chunks and pushing the numbers up progressively over time. Even if it takes an intermediary session or two, I think it's a great approach.
I thought further on this and also played a bit with the numbers to analyze the inscyd outputs (the link below links to it - you can click the "open in colab" button to play and change the numbers - there are gut feel approximations there..):
my threshold is weak compared to vo2max. but rather than worry about the need to push down ftp to succeed in the workouts, I should tweak the intensity to match the vo2 window - and that will naturally be lower due to weak threshold. So pushing down ftp for the vo2 work is likely not a big deal. VO2 tends to be approximated from max 5min power so that should mean the window needs to stay the way it is.
The lactate threshold though I am not sure. Do I need to adjust my recovery window (the link above estimates roughly where I should do LS sessions)? Maybe not - since I likely need to hit higher level to start accumulate lactate if the ftp potential is correct. Might be a case of trial and error on that, start low and try and move up the recovery window as I go through the workout.
It's just a simple thing to mess around, to get me thinking a bit on the different forces at play; it is not trying to be accurate. I tried to get some approximation using only ftp, vla and vo2 as input:
saw a inscyd video that said lactate combustion is linear so tried to get from the report the line calculated from the low power section of the curve
lactate creation is exponential but I assumed that the lower the vo2 the faster it would accelerate
vo2max to power; I found the approximation from golden cheetah. This helped me put in perspective what moving from 60 to 63 vo2max would mean in 5min power.
I wanted to have a quick tool to input a lot of combinations of scenarios and see how it behaves (not that it would be accurate but may help build an intuition on the relative impact).
@Julien P I love your curiosity and coding skill 🤣. You ask the best questions too! I think everyone has tweaked the workouts in some way and found the best way to progress through them. We will find that answer for you too!
You have put together a interesting tool to see the interaction between VLaMax and VO2Max. It will give you the general idea of the interaction of the curves.
Using FTP 255, VO2 Long ON 120% (306 W) and OFF 50% (127 w) as baseline is a good starting place based on your test results.
Test 3' power = 354 W
Test 5' power = 313 W
VO2max window = 315 - 347 w
I think 306 W is a valid target for your VO2 long, so we need to figure out the best strategy to get you rolling and knocking out these VO2 workouts. You have seen that almost all the athletes have struggled with these workouts (even the mighty, mutant Jonathon Benson! 🤣) They are Coach Patrick legit! We need to figure out how to get you rested and recovered, (overall and during each week) and we need to work on the right work:rest ratios for YOUR progression. That is all part of the "art" and science right?
I have two ideas for you to consider, from a big picture and workout individualization perspective.
As big picture, or in context to your "season" of work, look at all the training you have done in the past 5-6 weeks. Including all running and biking. Are you carrying some additional fatigue? How do you feel? I expect your threshold is set correctly in Training Peaks and WKO. So, what kind of TSS, CTL, and ATL are your carrying into the start of this training block? How do the numbers compare to how you are objectively feeling?
Looking at your Final Surge. I see you riding almost every day for the past 3-4 weeks, and running. It is hard to tell from Final Surge the intensity of all that work. You tell us? Do you need to get an easier or recovery week in there before tackling the first part of your BBC plan.
For workout individualization. I think we have the "ON" intensity correct. Let's work on dialing in your recovery intensity and duration. If you are more comfortable at 50% FTP, let's increase your recovery time. Check out your Recovery Chart (AKA the Lack of Pyruvate & Lactate Production Chart).
For example, at 306 W, you produce 0.9 mmol/min of lactate. Over that 4' interval you accumulate 3.6 mmol in that 4' during the "ON" part of the interval. If you recover at 127 W, your combust that lactate at 0.6 mmol/min. So, to get rid of that 3.6 mmol it will take you around 6'. (3.6/0.6 = 6). That would give you a Recovery to Work ratio = 1.5. Which is totally cool. The point is to start with a baseline, and get the quality time in. Just like you did the other day by dividing up the quality time in smaller chunks as the workout went on (i.e. doing those 30/30s at the end). Maybe, you just need more recovery. We'll dial it in. Once you get the hang of the "ON" portion, we can vary the recovery and you can learn more about how you most effectively recover at what power and duration in order to get the larger blocks of continous quality.
Wow thanks for putting so much thoughts into this! It is very helpful.
To your questions, on the macro side: I am oscillating at CTL 90+, ATL ~90. I have been doing about 10~11 hrs a week for a while but don't feel tired. Before COVID, I would have 2hrs commute per day and given I work with Asia and need to be in office early, I would sometimes need to slot in sessions around 4am. I have felt much better since working from home and can put more time and feel less tired. I do plan though to really take it easy the day before key sessions.
On workout individualization, I see now that it makes sense to customize a bit the workouts to fit the windows from Inscyd.
For the VO2 Long, I didn't change the recovery intensity from the original workout file and left at 50%. The high level of 125% felt too tough, so I brought that down, but I see your point about gently moving the recovery level up or extending it. A combo of that should make it both more achievable and more impactful - It feels like the bottleneck currently when doing the VO2 Long is more the lungs than the legs so tweaking recovery should be beneficial.
For the Lactate Shuttle, the workout file fits more closely my window - I have had some success in completing that (up to LS 1.2 so far) though I might have topped my capacity here. When I reach my limit, I may look at tweaking the OFF portion in a similar way. Overall I am trying not to diverge too much from the original workout, but focus first on the ON time and put whatever recovery is required to get through that and eventually would work on dialing up the recovery intensity (or dialing down the recovery time).
Comments
No, I think you are on the right path. Stick with the marathon plan and we will just have to do some nifty moves to get you from marathon Finishline into the out season with the rest of the gang. 👍
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes (note NYC)
Your Races
• Ironman St. George - North American Championships (2020-05-02) #IMSG_20 05/02/2020
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.
Your Notes
In 2019, I raced 2 70.3: Connecticut in 5h39 and Maine in 5h44. I had never broken 6h before, so this was an improvement and I felt in each race I had a bit more in the tank. I finished the year very energized and motivated.
In 2018, I did my only full IM at Tremblant in 13h28 (which puts me in level 2 ability by a full 2 long minutes)I am currently following the Balanced Marathon plan on the odd chance I get a bib for the NYC marathon. If I dont, I think that will give me some good running base anyway.
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
Hi @Coach Patrick
I wanted to give an update on progress; I have followed the plan above, targeting IMStG. As always there are ups and downs so let me summarize before I get to the questions:
Now for the questions:
Thanks,
Julien
@Julien P - thank you for reaching out and for the update. Can't say enough how much that is helpful for me.
Swim - Should be the first to go right now, so no worries. We will need 2x a week by mid-Feb...so start planning for that. Is there any shoulder stuff you can do now to prepare for the effects / fatigue of swimming?
The Bike - This is great news. I think using the mFTP can really help you stay focused. I want you to be tired post workout but not "shelled" and unable to workout the next day. If you have extra energy on the weekends, maybe work in a Zwift ride / race? I personally will race then ride steady...the race seems to "set" in early fatigue that doesn't make the rest of the long ride impossible, more like suitably hard.
The Run - Yes, according to the folks in the IMSG Group Me, the run there is legit. Here is a snapshot: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31802458 I think there are core sections with steep pitches; but it's not insurmountable. I would modify your treadmill training by alternating 1 miles at race pace with 2' to 3' walking briskly at 5% incline (12:00/mile pace?) then back to running. This will let you run as you need to but also help you target the glutes and develop some strength. Eventually you will need to get outside and run on the open road to be ready.
In terms of the plan, the bike focus is still where it's at, but we will need to keep the run frequency up and continue integrating hills as outlined ^above^ on your long and/or easy runs (intervals on flats please).
And let's start following our race nutrition plan by mid-February as you enter those final two weeks.
~ Patrick
Hello @Coach Patrick
I have transferred my St George entry to Lake Placid (July 26th) and like many I am working from home with no pool; this means more flexibility in bike and run but no swim.
I would be keen to hear how I should modify the plan; I assume that for LP folks the IM plan starts early May (maybe May 4th), what should I do until then?
For the LP race, I think that the profile is not radically dissimilar to the StG one so would remain focused on Bike(? still Bike Focus IM plan?) and the run may be a bit easier but still quite hilly. I will read the EN wiki pages on that but would be great if you can advise on plan changes and immediate focus.
Thanks,
Julien
@Julien P - You're not alone in this transition, as difficult as it may seem. Just a heads up that @Steve boer and @Kori Martini are doing the same thing! Fingers crossed that all of you get to do the race. I have modified your training plan through Lake Placid by leveraging our "prep" block as an intermediate plan to bridge you to the race preparation plan which starts on May 4th.
Head over to Final Surge and check it out!
Only other modification we might want to consider is building in some strength training to replace the work that you are missing in the pool. We have a basic functional strength program available in the training plan library, which you can check out. Unless you want to do something else?
~ Coach P
Thank you @Coach Patrick - makes a lot of sense. I will also try the functional strength program since that is easy to slot in now while working from home.
I assume that the 4th may race prep will be to load the full IM bike focused plan (i.e. the same one I had planned for St George)
Julien
@Julien P - yes, you are correct. We will start the race prep building may using the same plan that you have outlined for St. George. As I was saying to the other athletes, it's just as important to stay focused on the fact that you have built great fitness thus far this year.
Losing a race doesn't take away anything from you now, so we refocus and continue working towards a longer-term goal. Should you need help with your plan or making any adjustments, don't hesitate to reach out.
Quick update: from a training point of view, things are going ok. Working from home and with a very good setup for indoor training has meant I can put some good focus and have logged some hours that would otherwise have been hard to manage. I also had a very good review with @matt limbert and @Tom Glynn on WKO5 that has given me a different way to look at sessions.
From next week, the IM full program starts for IM Lake Placid. There are 2 reasons why I feel I probably need to adjust the program:
1) The plan naturally brings in swim sessions and I will not be able to do them to their fullest (I have a home pool, so I can simulate with the swim cords on the ankles but not for one hour sessions several times a week). I think I should probably do cords and use the freed up time for more bike/run volume. A bit like what I am doing now in fact.
2) Rather than get myself stuck again into a "will it / won't it happen" on LP (almost sure it wont), maybe I could get to set my objective to chase my PDC and tweak workouts to match optimized training from WKO5 to push that curve up and make that the goal rather than a race. Then maybe tune it back when regular swimming is possible and looking at race schedule is even possible. At this rate this could be after outseason..
Does this make sense? Should I just keep plodding along or modify as per above?
Thanks,
Julien
@Julien P - thanks so much for checking in and for giving me clarity. I'm glad to hear you've connected with some of our smartest members to learn more about the potential you have for Building fitness and getting stronger. I have some ideas on what you can do in a second.
First, let's talk about the swim. I agree they're doing all of that work in a pool with a swim tether does not make sense -- I do believe that adding in swim work is an essential part of your mid season fitness. And should there be an event later this year it's nice to have the upper body strength and fluency to handle it. I would recommend doing two sessions in a pool of 15 to 20 minutes long and then some dryland work to other days. Call it a total of an hour of work Between the pool and dry land. That would be a great baseline for you.
You are an interest in crossroads right now with regards to your bike Fitness. It's time for you to begin considering a move towards more endurance work, but the event itself is up in the air. Chasing the PDC as you have described is a great activity, and I think we can almost merge the two.
I could see some kind of a modified week where your Tuesday and Thursday bike workouts are dedicated to wards challenging yourself on the PDC. Wednesday is an easy steady run so as not to disrupt the work you're doing on the bike. The weekend then would have a longer steady bike in the 3 to 4 hour range with minimal work. Just to be the opposite point of what you're doing during the week. Of course we would have a long run there as well.
We have the benefit of doing this because Monday and Friday would be very very light. They could even be flexible if it would be easier for you to do a run or a bike on one of those other days instead of on the weekend, for example.
Feel free to load up the full plan and then we can drag and drop things around to create a good template week for you to follow. How does that sound?
~ Coach P
That sounds great thank you. I will follow this template for the next few weeks until there is a bit more clarity on what the race schedule looks like.
Julien
😎
I have been working on raising my PDC and targeting intervals accordingly. I have been able to raise my mFTP about 15-20 watts (realised in the process that my prior estimate was not based on a balanced curve, so my current mFTP of 250 is lower than I have reached but I feel stronger overall). Now I am struggling to make more gains especially anything longer than 20 minutes.
I am following the structure of the "get faster" plan and tweak the interval time and intensity to fit what is closest to what WKO5 is recommending; I err on the lower watts until I prove I can complete a workout (rather than try for higher watts and have to bail out).
To mix it up, I might try to add some run focus (hopefully not reducing too much the cycling effort). I have wanted to become a better runner and reach a few milestones (20min 5K, 1:40 half, 3:30 marathon and eventually BQ but that's longer term). My PRs on the pure running side are a bit meh.
Do you think I should follow the same structure and do a short speed (10x400 style) + tempo + long, or look at more low intensity / high volume (or mix it)? I am still working from home probably through the summer so I want to make the most of the extra time I have at hand.
On the race front, as you know LP is postponed, as no options have been put out I am still not clear when I will race - I may take a 2021 option (esp considering the race procedures IM have published don't make me feel this is going to be a wonderful experience..). If that is the case, I may go full on run focus and try for a fall marathon - that's assuming they are held.
Thanks,
Julien
@Julien P - good to hear from you! Building your strength up to the 20 minute mark is impressive. But the goal isn't just to hit 20 minutes, if that makes sense. For example, you should be able to do up to 75 minutes of work at that threshold level. That would look like something along the lines of 5 x 15 minutes, or 3 x 25 minutes. In other words, developing your threshold power is not just about pushing that one number up. You can also extend your accomplishments in the threshold zone by pushing the cumulative time of an entire training session to be longer.
Glad you are focused on hitting the numbers before you move on. As an example, I am following a similar protocol where I'm pushing my threshold numbers longer, not necessarily higher. This is a complementary type of workout to the higher intensity stuff that you've already done. I started off with 3 x 10 minutes, then did 4 x 9 minutes, then 3 x 12 minutes. So 30', 36', 36'. This week I will try to break 40 minutes at those zones....but note I already had one "do over" week in there...
Put this into perspective, I estimate my threshold to be around 385 W. But I'm doing these intervals at 365 W which is where WKO says my functional threshold is. So these are hard work but they're not all out sessions like an FTP test.
I would suggest you make the switch to this extensive (longer) interval work while you attack the run. Since you push the bike numbers up, we can focus on cementing those games. This will flatten the training though do you have from the bike, and give you a little bit of wiggle room on the run. The progression we have for running as of the season is very effective. You will find it in the run focused half plan and it follows a similar protocol as you have described. Short, fast work that builds incrementally by week.
You can preview the Half Run Focused plan to see those workouts and overlay them into your regular training...
As for late season races, I agree. There's just not enough certainty for me to commit, and the potential health risks are significant for my older relatives. I don't for see a situation where I will be completely comfortable participating in an event until we either have a vaccine or a much better understanding of what the risks are. I think completing your summer with a baseline Level of faster cycling and running i'll create some room for some for distance where you could attack the 13.1 or 26.2 challenge. We would have to make that call by early August, just so you know.
Keep up the good work!
~ Coach P
Thanks that makes all sense.
To clarify on my comment, I am for sure trying to make progress at longer intervals than 20 mins, it is just that while my curves straddles the model PDC at short end, I find it very hard between ~15 mins to 1h and the recommended target watts to hit feel barely achievable. Somehow at the very long end it gets better.
The solution you recommend makes complete sense - I will switch to focus on time in zone and build that up for a few weeks. Also at the same time I will look at the run half plan, that looks like a good motivating plan balancing structure with some run focus.
For me that will be increasing time at FTP (i.e. at 250 in erg) and going thru 4x7', 3x9', 4x8', 3x10', 4x9' thru 5x15'.
I also saw the bike program over 5 weeks with Inscyd testing - I cant commit for a 5 week program now as things at work can change anytime, but I am very interested in the Inscyd test if there is a possibility. I am curious what that would reveal and what that would mean for the most impactful focus. Is this something that will open up to the team more generally?
Thanks!
Julien
@Julien P The Test Results are IN!
Talk about crushing it! Nice work. We will have a longer form report for you tomorrow, we are just excited to get you an initial look at your numbers. We just had to get them too you early.👊
VO2Max 60.6
FTP: 274 W, which is 87.1% of your VO2max - just about perfect
4.2 W/kg
VLaMax 0.31 (scale of 0-1)
First off, your execution was good. Thanks for those comments about the intervals that "story" helps put the numbers in perspective. Your heart rate really shows how much you were pushing it, plus your comments about all time bests and results relative to your PDC.
You are probably saying, "What is this VLaMax that you speak of?" Well, VLaMax is one of the new metrics that we will talk about with the INSCYD testing. That what this week is all about. VLamax → V = flow rate. La = Lactate. Max = Maximum. For now, think about it the brother to VO2Max. Where VO2Max is measure of the your maximal oxygen consumption for aerobic power. VLaMax is your maximium rate of lactate generation for anaerobic power. Endurance athletes want a low number, Sprinters want a high number. It is totally trainable, just like VO2Max.
For the record, the last class nicknamed it "Vlama." Feel free to jump into the GroupMe, ask questions (or boast about) those numbers.
We will have a longer report for you tomorrow with some more details about VLaMax, how to change it, where you fit on the scale, etc and we will talk more during our video call Wed.
Let us know what you think.
Talk to you soon, Matt
@matt limbert Thanks a lot!
It's interesting how it matches and differs from WKO5. My FTP looks much higher on Inscyd (253 on WKO though the tests alone brought FTP up by 6W so directionally makes sense). Having said that when I look at my curve, the 3 testing points (10", 3', 6') are around my 4.1 w/kg curve. The 10' test is a bit below but I can see why INSCYD based on these 4 points feels I should be able to push 275W. From my curve below, I am being let down by the longer end of the curve - maybe something I will have to work on after the camp (the purple areas at the bottom are MMP distance to year best so I have this well flattened in the test ranges)
Looking forward to go through the numbers and in the mean time I will update my FTP and start working harder!
Many thanks,
Julien
Legit stuff here @Julien P ... very solid work and great W/kg! Looks like Best Bike Camp is already working for you 🤣 See you in the groupme!
~ Coach P
@matt limbert
Following the webinar and looking at my numbers, I wanted to confirm that I interpret this correctly (my focus is on improvements at HIM/IM distances mostly).
VO2Max 60.6
FTP: 274 W, which is 87.1% of your VO2max - just about perfect
4.2 W/kg
VLaMax 0.31 (scale of 0-1)
1) There seems not to be an awful lot of juice to squeeze on reducing VLaMax (though a weekly low gear session probably wouldn't hurt)
2) my FTP as a % of VO2max is rather high (from what I hear from your numbers or the ones discussed in the webinar), so maybe the biggest gain is on increasing that VO2max number itself - this would reduce that percentage and hence show some possibility to raise that threshold.
Does that make sense? It's all very interesting and looking forward to next weeks
Thanks,
Julien
@Julien P
You are right. Short answer VO2 work is your easier target.
Long answer is a bit more complicated and more deliberate "season" approach in terms of focus per training block. You can get that layered or sequential benefit by focusing on VO2 then switching to VLamax. Inverse of Gripel prep for the tour. You build VO2 and power first, then race specific VLamax while trying to extend your VO2 fitness.
Raising your VO2max will be the biggest gain. How to do that is the key - and what we will be talking more about at camp. There are lots of interval options for increasing VO2. If you take the long approach you can do almost any kind of VO2 intervals - including the short stuff like 30/30 and 40/20. You may see a slight increase in VLaMax, but you could get that down in the next phase of training. You could do the outseason and use a progression of VO2 work - including short stuff, transistioning to longer intervals 3' -6' to 8' minutes. Get all you can out of VO2, then do a block focused on reducing your VLaMax - while doing maintenance VO2 work, then you get layered gains from both.
You most likely are never going to be a big time sprinter like Carl, so your gains in strength and developing more capacity to do some anaerobic work will make you a better rider overall. So while you might see a slight temporary increase in VLaMax while you do all things VO2. You can do a follow on block of focused VLaMax work to decrease your VLamax and roll into a race specificity block with IM race pace, tempo, and dialing in the fueling (which we will cover in 2 weeks from now).
Let me know what you think.
Thanks that makes a lot of sense
@matt limbert thanks for the great explanation!
@Julien P Tell us more about your VO2 long workout. What were your targets for the intervals and the recovery?
I am currently running at: FTP 255, VO2 Long ON 120% OFF 50%
[My approach to implement the camp recommendations has been to treat first week as just rehearsal: to ensure I am best prepared to tackle the tough workouts. I tried to start with the 2.x workouts, but should have be more conservative. So first week I did a variety of workouts across VO2 Long, Lactate Shuttle, VO2 short and VLaMax - mostly overestimating what I could achieve. I am at a stage where 1.0 workouts is plenty tough and the step to 2.1 looks steep.]
Now I am starting the training block 1 officially this week which includes VO2 Long (that I tuned down from 125% to 120%) and Lactate Shuttle. So far, I tried the VO2 Long 2.1 (3x4') this morning. I could not finish but it was not an utter failure (had to stop in the middle of interval 2 and 3 but spent the time at intensity - I had enough to do a series of VO2 short at the end to try and get more used to the intensity):
I plan on staying at the 2.1 level until I clear it (or maybe create a 2.0 level that would be 4x3' as transition). I would try and go onto each of VO2 Long and Lactate Shuttle as rested as possible and maybe give it another shot in case of failure over the weekend.
Let me know if this approach makes sense; feels like reducing further the FTP would become counterproductive (already down 20W so not sure how it impacts zones) so I need to figure out ways to get these done and climb back.
Thanks,
Julien
@Julien P I am interested in @matt limbert 's reply, but in my mind you are doing it right. Breaking it down into manageable chunks and pushing the numbers up progressively over time. Even if it takes an intermediary session or two, I think it's a great approach.
Thanks @Coach Patrick - I am also interested to hear from @matt limbert
I thought further on this and also played a bit with the numbers to analyze the inscyd outputs (the link below links to it - you can click the "open in colab" button to play and change the numbers - there are gut feel approximations there..):
My hunch (though evolving):
later today.
Why did you build the Matlab model? How did you approach it?
It's just a simple thing to mess around, to get me thinking a bit on the different forces at play; it is not trying to be accurate. I tried to get some approximation using only ftp, vla and vo2 as input:
I wanted to have a quick tool to input a lot of combinations of scenarios and see how it behaves (not that it would be accurate but may help build an intuition on the relative impact).
@Julien P I love your curiosity and coding skill 🤣. You ask the best questions too! I think everyone has tweaked the workouts in some way and found the best way to progress through them. We will find that answer for you too!
You have put together a interesting tool to see the interaction between VLaMax and VO2Max. It will give you the general idea of the interaction of the curves.
Using FTP 255, VO2 Long ON 120% (306 W) and OFF 50% (127 w) as baseline is a good starting place based on your test results.
Test 3' power = 354 W
Test 5' power = 313 W
VO2max window = 315 - 347 w
I think 306 W is a valid target for your VO2 long, so we need to figure out the best strategy to get you rolling and knocking out these VO2 workouts. You have seen that almost all the athletes have struggled with these workouts (even the mighty, mutant Jonathon Benson! 🤣) They are Coach Patrick legit! We need to figure out how to get you rested and recovered, (overall and during each week) and we need to work on the right work:rest ratios for YOUR progression. That is all part of the "art" and science right?
I have two ideas for you to consider, from a big picture and workout individualization perspective.
As big picture, or in context to your "season" of work, look at all the training you have done in the past 5-6 weeks. Including all running and biking. Are you carrying some additional fatigue? How do you feel? I expect your threshold is set correctly in Training Peaks and WKO. So, what kind of TSS, CTL, and ATL are your carrying into the start of this training block? How do the numbers compare to how you are objectively feeling?
Looking at your Final Surge. I see you riding almost every day for the past 3-4 weeks, and running. It is hard to tell from Final Surge the intensity of all that work. You tell us? Do you need to get an easier or recovery week in there before tackling the first part of your BBC plan.
For workout individualization. I think we have the "ON" intensity correct. Let's work on dialing in your recovery intensity and duration. If you are more comfortable at 50% FTP, let's increase your recovery time. Check out your Recovery Chart (AKA the Lack of Pyruvate & Lactate Production Chart).
For example, at 306 W, you produce 0.9 mmol/min of lactate. Over that 4' interval you accumulate 3.6 mmol in that 4' during the "ON" part of the interval. If you recover at 127 W, your combust that lactate at 0.6 mmol/min. So, to get rid of that 3.6 mmol it will take you around 6'. (3.6/0.6 = 6). That would give you a Recovery to Work ratio = 1.5. Which is totally cool. The point is to start with a baseline, and get the quality time in. Just like you did the other day by dividing up the quality time in smaller chunks as the workout went on (i.e. doing those 30/30s at the end). Maybe, you just need more recovery. We'll dial it in. Once you get the hang of the "ON" portion, we can vary the recovery and you can learn more about how you most effectively recover at what power and duration in order to get the larger blocks of continous quality.
What do you think?
Wow thanks for putting so much thoughts into this! It is very helpful.
To your questions, on the macro side: I am oscillating at CTL 90+, ATL ~90. I have been doing about 10~11 hrs a week for a while but don't feel tired. Before COVID, I would have 2hrs commute per day and given I work with Asia and need to be in office early, I would sometimes need to slot in sessions around 4am. I have felt much better since working from home and can put more time and feel less tired. I do plan though to really take it easy the day before key sessions.
On workout individualization, I see now that it makes sense to customize a bit the workouts to fit the windows from Inscyd.
For the VO2 Long, I didn't change the recovery intensity from the original workout file and left at 50%. The high level of 125% felt too tough, so I brought that down, but I see your point about gently moving the recovery level up or extending it. A combo of that should make it both more achievable and more impactful - It feels like the bottleneck currently when doing the VO2 Long is more the lungs than the legs so tweaking recovery should be beneficial.
For the Lactate Shuttle, the workout file fits more closely my window - I have had some success in completing that (up to LS 1.2 so far) though I might have topped my capacity here. When I reach my limit, I may look at tweaking the OFF portion in a similar way. Overall I am trying not to diverge too much from the original workout, but focus first on the ON time and put whatever recovery is required to get through that and eventually would work on dialing up the recovery intensity (or dialing down the recovery time).
Julien