@Julien P -
I like the work you've done on the swim...but remember, it's not our top concern! Wetsuits are the best...so don't feel too much pressure there.
If you've dropped 4 kilos, you are in a GREAT place regardless of FTP. The real key here is can you "replicate" the effort of Interval #1 across the other intervals...that's the goal...because the LAST part of the LAST interval is where the magic happens.
That is GREAT NEWS on the adductor. Your run is humming along; can't ask for more than that!
So the next piece of the puzzle is NUTRITION. The sweat test shows your body is working hard...so you need to make sure it's as happy as possible so you don't end up putting your run (and all your hard work) at risk.
I suggest you start doing a bottle an hour of GE...whenever you bike. Even if it's an hour on the trainer. You need to get used to drinking it.
Do that for the weeks of 6/4 and 6/11 then week of 6/18 bump up to 1.5 bottles per hour. As the summer gets hotter you'll WANT to drink more, I promise you. You just need to be used to drinking so you can sustain the fluid intake you'll want on race day.
Bonus Points: if you can drink 4oz of GE per mile on your long runs. I use a fuelbelt, one bottle holds 8oz, so a 4 bottle belt gets me 8 miles...just a thought!
Chat soon!!!!
~ Coach P
I think I am getting dialed in on the nutrition. I am posting my update from Final Surge for consistency:
Good things: - Run coming along, not feeling too tired after sessions, whether it's cruise interval, double long run on thursday or long brick after the ABP ride - More confident on the nutrition: 2 bottles and one block per hour on bike, one GE cup per mile, one gel per 30 mins, BASE salt every 20~30 minutes. However big unknown is heat where I have been consistent in massive implosions in the past. - body composition is better than what was my original Tremblant target. January was 71kg 17% body fat, now about 66kg at 13.5%. So over 3kg of fat dropped. I need to keep around that level, build up bike power which will be harder now that I am about to start a new job. Maybe not worry too much about power since being light in hills will counterbalance (in the run too).
Bad things: - Finding it tough to hold power for longer than an hour. At a 220 FTP, 175 should be cruising but I feel I am working to keep the pace. On the long ride, I need to skip the 90% / 100% FTP sections as it feels I would not recover from that and have to bail the ride. - Lack of top end power: even for shorter intervals I find it very hard to reach some of the targets at 250W or so. I read about ramp test as alternative to FTP test and it seemed that I would need to reach 290W to get my FTP of 220, which seems total science fiction. This points to me that I am weak on the short end of the power curve. Maybe not a problem. - Bike has gone through many changes to get gears / brakes tuned. Switching to train on road bike until Syracuse, then will put back the tri bike on trainer and see if there is a bigger issue.
It was good to talk to you yesterday. I passed on Garmin connection details: - For my zwift workouts, I connect my smart trainer through ANT+, but I dont have HR since that typically comes from my garmin 935. If I send the garmin file, it wont have the trainer power info. Maybe I need to just buy a ANT+ HR after Syracuse so I can have this tracked more properly as currently I just monitor it casually. - Today there are 2 entries: one with the zwift info (power, etc) and one that has only HR info coming from the Garmin. There is also a run brick that has all info.
On a side note, you may see the issue I mentioned before; despite my HR reduced a bit it's still quite high (about 160) and my HR curve is almost binary, going from 70 or at rest (40 when waking up) to 130-140 even in warm up. A couple years back I tried MAF, but holding 135 for me would result in running with counterproductive form.
I also attach my fit report (I saw you comment on fit photos on another thread) - There are pre and post photos at the end. I think you will feel I should lower my front bars, I did want to get into a comfortable position that I can hold long time as my back would hurt too much. In the new fit I can easily hold 30 mins+, but maybe I should try and make it a bit lower over the next few weeks.
@Julien P - Yes, I have seen the workouts and I know we are working through that. I agree that maybe just making the purchase to ensure the workouts are synchronized with her rate is the best idea. It’s an expensive upfront cost will make the rest of your life a lot easier in this regard.
I’m not very worried about the delta between your resting and exercise heart rate. That’s fairly common. The fitter you get the lower your resting heart rate is for example. If you are saying that your exercise heart rates are much higher than I’ve been in the past, that is another issue. For example if you could always run at 145 but now that same run as 165 I would like to know that.
Yes, thank you for submitting the Fit report. If you get off the bike and take a picture from the side you will undoubtedly notice that the nose of your saddle, the front tip, is well behind the center of your Cranks. If you move that saddle forward it off to has to go a little bit up. By doing that this gives you the flexibility to then bring those fun bars down. If you go to TTbikefit.com you will see a bunch of pictures that should help you out in this regard.
You can also take a few pictures and submit them here for the team to give you feedback on in the bike fit thread.
I have ordered an ant+ HRM - note it only affects my Zwift rides, I do get HR info on my runs, etc but it will be better to get it all in one place. The HR is definitely drifting down, so the direction is good and I dont think there is any reason for concern - just that it makes it a bit harder to use as a gauge for pacing.
So Syracuse went well - I was scared to suffer so much that it would get me doubting I could get anywhere near finishing IMMT. The big thing was to be able to go through the day fully in control, despite the hills and the heat. While slow in absolute term, my 2:08 half marathon is better aligned to my flat half marathon times.
I did have some recurring mechanical issues; my front derailleur was locked the whole ride. It keeps happening despite recabling so I am pondering what to do. Changing the bike so late is risky, maybe switching to SRAM eTap or DI2 may solve that (but may bring in new issues I am unaware off). I am going to have to decide very quick so whatever option can be dialed in and tested before too late. I think my setup of bottles / toolbox / computer is very poor and an afterthought so I will look at solving that at the same time.
I am very glad to hear about your experience in Syracuse. Sounds like you had a great balance between good execution and many lessons learned. I hope you were also able to capsules some heart rate and power data that we can use for training guidelines.
I agree that changing up the bike this close to the races fairly risky. I think if you post some pictures of not only your hydration/toolbox set up, but also of the bike itself… People might be able to advise you on what to do. You can’t be the first person to have this kind of issue; it is possible that someone else on the team has identified a solution so it’s worthwhile posting a picture and a quick story to the forums.
I hope you are almost recovered and ready to get back to work!
I have the strava files with HR for Syracuse and I just received my ANT+ HRM so should be good going forward: Bike: https://www.strava.com/activities/1645581930/analysis Run: https://www.strava.com/activities/1645581894 I also found the following thread on forum https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/24697/etap-or-di2#latest, in which issues with the 2012 Trek internal cabling sound a bit similar. My bike is a Blue Triad SL (so not Trek), but is from the same period so not impossible that the geometry is very similar (add to that that they seem to not do that model anymore, seems suspiciously similar). I got an eTAP quote that is not too far from what Derek got in the thread. I am leaning towards doing that through the rest of the year and re-assess for a bike change after season is over.
Recovery wise, I felt no issues at all, in fact did a swim + bike the day after the race and then the 5*1km run tempo. I have just started a new job, so I am struggling adjusting schedule, but expect to be fully back from this week-end onwards
Thanks for the update on the devices! Looking at both your heart rate files for the bike and the run you can see how the heart rate is higher at the start that at the end. In both cases we want to reverse that trend. Your heart rate may be high at the start of the bike for example, but we want to get it down as quickly as possible to the lowest point and then spend the rest of the time building back up. Of course the chart is compressed on my phone so it may not be a very accurate representation of how you paid yourself, but it’s clear the general trend is down where as we’d like it to be up.
This is more important for the bike and the run because it gives you some band with to be able to perform well on the run versus hang on.
I agree 100% with eTap. I have it on my road bike and love it it’s very simple and easy to use in the implementation is even easier. I support that decision. Looking forward to all of your heart rates!
I have done the eTap upgrade, so far so good - that should put these derailleur issues behind, I do need to play a bit more outdoor with it as I do most my training on zwift. I also got the HRM setup now for my bike workouts.
Logistics: I have restarted working so scheduling sessions is a bit more challenging esp. for swims. Next week is meant to be camp week, due to work schedule, I plan on doing the back to back rides on zwift, do you see this being an issue with that?
Body compo: feeling good on that, I was looking to be around 150lbs at Mt Tremblant (erring on the lower end given the hills). Now, I am at 145lbs without trying so will just aim to make good food choices but doesn't feel the need for any drastic diet.
Swim: No issue for now, following a lot of the ebook advices and focus on position. Bike: Feeling a bit weak. Today's FTP 10',14',10' (week 14 L2) I had to take a 1' break before the last session. I did do the full workout after catching my breath, but feel I lack top end power (90%+ FTP is very hard to hold more than a few minutes - the week-end long rides have a couple spikes at 90% and I just cant hold there either). Probably some fatigue + weight loss driven (or just me overthinking it) and presumably at this stage I should worry more about time in the saddle with proper nutrition. Run: Seems to go fine, the FTP session feels quite easy. Dreading a bit the coming weeks with longer runs but so far I havent struggled to complete the sessions on the plan (unlike the bike ones). I am worried about the logistics though of doing 2h or even 3h long runs midweek - guess I will figure out but that may involve at least in part treadmill runs.
On our call, you mentioned about downloading the Tremblant file to load that into the trainer; I tried to go to best bike split and create a file out of the 2015 course and a target power of about 155W (70% of my 220 FTP). Is this what you meant, ie run that in ERG mode? I guess it simulates the power profile, if there was something that simulated the grade that would be very good but doubt that exists. Were you thinking of another way?
Congratulations on making the switch to eat up. That will really make a big difference! I don’t think you should worry too much about your bike power for the FTP sessions as fatigue is normal.
As for scheduling a run, you can keep splitting it for as long as is required. For example, you could do one hour and 15 minutes in the morning and again in the evening. It’s not perfect, but if it fits your schedule we can’t argue. Alternatively, we could shuffle your schedule so you get that long run done on the Sunday after your long Saturday ride for a few key weeks. That is what happens In the minimalist plan if you want to check it out.
Please continue to make sure you’re taking in a good amount of protein to help you recover and build muscle post workout. We don’t want you to be too light!
Hi @Coach Patrick Your comment on bike power makes complete sense, it's all related to fatigue. I had to have complete rest before this week's FTP and it was just too easy to hit the targets - if anything my FTP is likely higher than when I last tested.
Overall I have struggled a bit to get all the sessions done in the last couple weeks (work got badly in the way). So far though the run has not suffered too much and I have not had to split the runs (and could do the 3h run with no issue - shortened by about 10 mins). On the bike side, I have tended to break the very long sessions in 2 with an hour break (since I had to do them indoor, I find I get very uncomfortable from 3hrs on - legs are fine). On the swim, I missed sessions - with work changes, difficulty in settling on new pool schedule etc, but that should be solved now and I have a pool very close to work.
As I am 3 weeks from IMMT, I am trying to optimize what time is left (or reduce the panick depending on which angle you look at it). I plan on following the plan very closely, maybe: - trying to add swim frequency even for shorter duration until I feel that routine / feel coming back. When swim unfit (as is the case now) I tend to use the pullboy a lot. - bike, unless you think breaking the sessions is an issue and I really need 5-6hrs consecutive, I plan to continue as I am doing.
I think the bike upgrades put me in a better place (eTap, double bottle holder, computer mount). I am currently riding 11 spd 53/39 and 11/26. The recommendation would be to go for a 11/28 I think (I would rather avoid changing the front one at this stage). Is this something I should do or is the difference not worth the risk of adding yet another change late?
I am starting to look at the race plan and looking to use best bike split for that and going through race reports from previous years. I will be in MT from the Wednesday so hope to use that time to rehearse the critical bike sections and swim the lake. There is tons of info on the wiki / podcasts which is great help.
Don’t worry, you have done very well despite all of those changes. And as you noted, you have made lots of really good decisions which will make a big difference on race day. You can add all the swimming you want between now and race day no problems. We just want to run and consistency, has your run Fitness is finished. The only variable remaining is the bike and one or two more decent long rides would be nice. I don’t know what your longest individual ride has been but having Something between four and five hours would be nice.
Yes, I would strongly recommend the 28 in the back, those hills at the end are pretty tough and having an extra gear in your back pocket does make a difference. I promise, you will absolutely use it!
When you get out there for race week, make sure everything works and ride your bike on the run course as well as out to the highway and back in, past the resort and up Duplisses. This is in all of our guidance.
Also, last call for your nutrition plan! Let’s make sure that is ready.
I didnt quite follow the comment "We just want to run and consistency, has your run Fitness is finished". Maybe keep with the run frequency?
>I don’t know what your longest individual ride has been I did do camp week which was 6h saturday, 4h sunday. I broke them into 2 sessions each per day with a short break (30 mins) so I think it was 3.5+2.5 saturday and 2.5+1.5 on sunday.
This week-end I did 4h straight saturday, 1.5+2h on sunday. I do agree I lack volume for the last 3 weeks (work came in the way right at the worst time) and am quite nervous on that; indoor sessions are really hard past 3h from a comfort perspective - I am not struggling as much outdoor, presumably due to more movement on the saddle. Not sure whether I should do something about it or just put it behind - dont want to risk anything at this stage.
For IMMT, I feel: Swim: Being around 35' half, I think getting through not too spent should be doable, but could do with the confidence boost of a couple of long sessions before the race. I will have no time target. Bike: I plugged in my numbers on best bike split; I was looking at being conservative and maybe go for IF of 0.65, with a max at 0.78 for climbs (so about 155W). That came up at 6h30; looks good to me though I am not worrying about time (besides ensuring I have enough time to make it even with a very slow marathon). I have ordered the 28 cassette, so will switch that in. Run: It's been going very well, sessions have felt easy, I think I only missed a couple over the whole program. However my only marathon experience (10y ago) was not a good one, so I am dreading that one and the state I will be in to run it. Nutrition: the plan I followed at 70.3 syracuse worked well so I plan on following the same. On the run I would front-load the nutrition, so take gels earlier than planned where possible in case the gut shuts later. I may put in special needs bag some solid food (even maybe something enjoyable if I am not going to be made fun of) to break the GE + blocks routine.
@Julien P - Sorry for the confusion. I meant to say about running frequency is really important. We don’t need a lot of harder running, the frequency will do the trick.
If you haven’t already, you should investigate using a rock her plate for your trainer. Two pieces of wood with tennis balls in between allow the trainer to move a little bit side to side and give you just enough movement to make indoor riding more comfortable.
I agree with some longer swims in the next two weeks. There is no cost to you swimming longright now, even on the Monday or Tuesday of race week so please go ahead. It’s almost as important mentally to have that in your back pocket.
I think you sets the baseline for the ride around .68 to .7. Anything less than .68 is almost too easy and can really won’t help your overall performance as things start to decline from an effort perspective. I was suggest to The climb is at .80, and the combination of those two changes should be more reflective of what you want to do on race day.
I agree with you on the run. The most important part is good nutrition and pacing of the bike, and I think you have the skills and perspective on that. I like how your nutrition plan plays out, don’t forget you’re going to need salt as well to keep your stomach happy as you go
I had a great time at Mt Tremblant and I am now ready to get going again. Here is the race report: https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/25080/juliens-first-ironman-at-mont-tremblant-race-report#latest Summary: I had a good day, was broadly in line with expectations. I had a few nutrition issues but for a first ironman that is to be expected. If anything, I was hoping for a bit more on the run but the blocker was not my fitness but rather the carry over of the nutrition issue from the bike. I had zero muscle pain day 2 and have had no recovery challenge.
I dont have any race planned for the year but there is an odd chance for a november marathon. I am thinking to train as if it's on and worst case it will be fitness that can be carried onto next year outseason. To that end, I have loaded the marathon balanced plan from Final Surge, let me know if that is not appropriate.
For next year, I feel I need to: a) push up my FTP (went from 185 to 230 this year, so target around 250) b) be more disciplined on the run frequency c) keep swimming while it stays pleasant and at minimum once a week.
I am still thinking in terms of races for next year, will likely move back to several 70.3 and make the next 140.6 for 2020 to limit the family impact. I feel all my PRs are attainable so will look to get faster next year before I get longer the year after. My long term dream would be to BQ so this shift probably makes sense?
@Julien P - so pumped for you. The first IM is always a big roll of the dice; lots of good lessons learned there for you.
My thoughts...
you can roll into the marathon plan for Nov BUT BUT BUT You Might need some down time to recover from the year (not just the race itself) 😎. So keep listening to your body.
After the marathon, let's move to the RDP plans...1/2/3 will really help you build up the durability. Would be nice to have you in a January / February 30 day run streak, for example.
The FTP will come from the OS, which you should start on 1/7/19...but we keep the runs low as in RDP style.
In terms of long term improvement...some body comp focus might be nice as well. I'd recommend this course if you haven't seen it yet.
I realize now that it makes more sense to take a break rather than cram a marathon block. Instead I will start the run durability in a week or so and be very disciplined at it (I missed a few sessions last year, so I will try and do a streak this time).
For next year, I want to get faster at 70.3 and maybe marathon before going back in for a full the year after. The RDP / OS helped a lot last year, I think year 2 should bring more improvements now I know what to expect.
On the body comp, I am not doing too bad (1.77cm, about 65kg). I have diet restrictions already because I have hemochromatosis (iron overload), so I eat no red meat, very little alcohol. So I try not to make my life more miserable by applying more restrictions. However a lot of what I do is aligned to the body comp advices.
I am starting to plan for next year's races. I think I will look for 2 70.3s and another shot at a marathon with a goal of improving my PRs at both distances.
I did a (hilly) 5k last week-end and did 21:50 (I trained at a 23:40 last year) so was pleasantly surprised at the jump in vdot. The VDOT tables imply a marathon equivalent time of 3:28 which is hard to believe given my PR of 4:08 (albeit that was 10 years ago and my only attempt). It's also not very far from a BQ for my age (3:20). Maybe a bit too ambitious for next year.
For now, I will go into RDP until the outseason where my goal will be to improve more my vdot and my ftp. I already signed for Maine 70.3 in august and may look for a June 70.3 (or possibly Alpe d'Huez triathlon) and I will look for NYC or Chicago marathon.
I have started looking more into my stryd numbers, given my run focus, should I look to use more the stryd zones for training over the RDP or should I just keep getting data and use that later in the year?
@Julien P - I love the long-term focus. I think that’s perfect. Do you still have quite a bit of strength to gain on the bike and the run, and sometimes adding the volume of an Iron Man into the mix is almost an obstruction to that type of progress.
Yes to the RDP plan for now, that’s exactly the way you should go. I encourage you to continue wearing your Stryd and recording the data, but the other than improving your cadence and form there’s not a ton of work ever do with your power meter right now.
You might want to post the data for the run to the forms to get feedback from your teammates on what opportunities there are for improvement based off of that information.
By the way, that is a fantastic 5K results. Proof positive that your progression is working and that you do have greater fitness. Remember that when we raise the left with speed, the job for the remainder of the time just to fill in the right where we spend increasing amounts of time at incrementally higher pieces to build the Endurance portion of that fitness. Sounds like you are already on the right path!
For all of these I am looking at improving my times (70.3 sub 6h that I will target in Maine since Connecticut will be much tougher, Marathon target around 3h45 or below, my vdot implies around 3h30 so I will do all I can to get close).
I assume based on that I would stay in RDP until January OS, and would follow the same set of plans as last year (swim camp then 70.3 plan through June)?
I love the season! I think it’s perfect. Yes to the render ability program through the January house season. The goal here is to really stay frequent on the runs had a very reasonable pace, Ideally TRP. He might also want to consider planning for our holiday run challenge between Christmas and New Year’s. That would be a nice run peak before you recover and start the outseason.
I raced 70.3 Connecticut last week-end (overall: 5h39, prior PR of 6:02 at Atlantic City). While the swim was short, I am still happy with the result, the hills are tough and my run time went from 2:08 at Syracuse last year to 2:02 this year (maybe Conn is even more hilly). My training leading to the race was not ideal (I followed OS then Half Bike Focused but had many cancelled sessions in the last weeks due to work) though I had been quite disciplined over the OS. I had lowered my expectations somewhat, so I am more than happy with the result and it has left me energized.
My plan for the rest of the year remains:
Maine 70.3: I would like to put a solid effort on that. It's flatter so it feels like a good opportunity to get a good time again, but improving on time will likely mean more bike focus? (and maybe Maine would require more time in the pool given the ocean swim - I am a one speed swimmer, about 1:50/100m)
Fall marathon: while I dont have a NYC slot, I want to get marathon fit by november and see whether I can somehow get a slot or do another marathon around the same time. Feels like anyway it would help my general goal of getting faster.
Could you help me map out the plans to follow over the next few months? Should I go for Half Bike focused again until Maine? Or Half Run focused this time maybe (or the new one - run focus block)? How do you suggest I build up the marathon fitness, would that be after completing the 70.3 Maine? (I was even thinking about blending the half plan for the bike sessions + a marathon key sessions for the run - maybe not a wonderful idea and not obvious how to track).
My long term goal is to lower my marathon time (and get as close as I can to BQ which for me is 3:20) and my half IM (I cant imagine qualifying for anything with the sort of times I put in HIM/IM - so the view would be to prepare me for a second go at a full IM, this time with more solid foundation - did 13:38 for my first full)
@Julien P - congratulations on the race. that course is VERY hilly, I agree that your run time there was a significant improvement. I think the best bet is to break the next three months us as:
- 4 weeks Run Focus Block 6/10 thru 7/07
- Run Focus Half Plan 7/8 thru 8/25
- We would move from HIM to Marathon over the 8 weeks of Sept and Oct to be marathon ready.
The only change I would make to the Half plan is to be specific with the paces of the Threshold Run (FTP run) and the long run. The key is to make a realistic determination of what your goal pace should be for the fall. This could be a run test we do this summer or perhaps you have a recent "Run only" race result we could use?
If you agree with the above Plan layout And need help putting it into Final Surge let me know.
I am now in the final week before going to Maine 70.3. Training has been going ok all in all - some interruptions, but I think I am making general progress.
Once that race is done, I have 2 objectives and wonder if you can help me with the planning:
Still looking to possibly get a bib at NYC marathon: I assume that I would move to a marathon plan from next week, but saw the balanced marathon plan and wonder whether this would be better? I still have a long term goal to bring in my marathon time and in time get closer to a BQ, but that's clearly not happening soon.
Within that marathon plan (assuming that is what makes sense), I see that there is a speed phase, a strength phase and a taper phase. If I was jumping in, I would miss all of the speed phase, is it better to keep the structure (i.e. maybe 2 weeks speed, 4 weeks strengths, 2 weeks taper) or just keep it the way it is?
I signed up for IM St George (not quite sure what I was thinking): I think the marathon block will help with that and may act like a high volume RDP. I wonder what OS I would do given the early may race? I imagine this would happen very soon after the marathon (if I dont get the NYC bib, it might help with that part of the plan)
Julien- The first order of business for you is to recover from the 70.3. I want to give you at least a solid week for that. Put up a link to your race report for me here so I can understand how things went for you and, more importantly, how you feel heading into the marathon training.
Knowing that will help me determine what the next best step for you with regards to training for the marathon. https://endurancenation.wufoo.com/forms/q7a69dd1purtki/
Doing Saint George’s great, we will just have to be creative with how we structure and rest so you can still build to the race while staying healthy and sane!
I posted the report in the form - I cant find a way to link it from here so let me know if you dont see it and I will repost in the main forum. Overall, it went ok (5h44); I had a poor swim but I am not reading too much into it. I think I could have done better on the run. Now I feel very fresh (maybe too fresh) and ready to get going.
The run is the part I want to improve now; I have made strong improvements on the bike and don't find it hard to motivate myself for the bike. It would be great if I get to enjoy the run as much and start posting more respectable times so I thought a focus on that would help (although often improving the run comes with improving the bike first)
I found it! Thank you for sharing. I hear you are wanting to enjoy the run. For me that type of work starts now. I am referring to our run durability program with the structure to help you create an excellent baseline of run competency and strength.
Depending on what your fall schedule is, this is something you can do for one or two months right now just to stay fit which helps you build off of this year, and start developing that strength on the run as a foundation you can capitalize on next season.
Let me know if you need help finding those plans in Final Surge.
Comments
I think I am getting dialed in on the nutrition. I am posting my update from Final Surge for consistency:
Good things:
- Run coming along, not feeling too tired after sessions, whether it's cruise interval, double long run on thursday or long brick after the ABP ride
- More confident on the nutrition: 2 bottles and one block per hour on bike, one GE cup per mile, one gel per 30 mins, BASE salt every 20~30 minutes. However big unknown is heat where I have been consistent in massive implosions in the past.
- body composition is better than what was my original Tremblant target. January was 71kg 17% body fat, now about 66kg at 13.5%. So over 3kg of fat dropped. I need to keep around that level, build up bike power which will be harder now that I am about to start a new job. Maybe not worry too much about power since being light in hills will counterbalance (in the run too).
Bad things:
- Finding it tough to hold power for longer than an hour. At a 220 FTP, 175 should be cruising but I feel I am working to keep the pace. On the long ride, I need to skip the 90% / 100% FTP sections as it feels I would not recover from that and have to bail the ride.
- Lack of top end power: even for shorter intervals I find it very hard to reach some of the targets at 250W or so. I read about ramp test as alternative to FTP test and it seemed that I would need to reach 290W to get my FTP of 220, which seems total science fiction. This points to me that I am weak on the short end of the power curve. Maybe not a problem.
- Bike has gone through many changes to get gears / brakes tuned. Switching to train on road bike until Syracuse, then will put back the tri bike on trainer and see if there is a bigger issue.
It was good to talk to you yesterday. I passed on Garmin connection details:
- For my zwift workouts, I connect my smart trainer through ANT+, but I dont have HR since that typically comes from my garmin 935. If I send the garmin file, it wont have the trainer power info. Maybe I need to just buy a ANT+ HR after Syracuse so I can have this tracked more properly as currently I just monitor it casually.
- Today there are 2 entries: one with the zwift info (power, etc) and one that has only HR info coming from the Garmin. There is also a run brick that has all info.
On a side note, you may see the issue I mentioned before; despite my HR reduced a bit it's still quite high (about 160) and my HR curve is almost binary, going from 70 or at rest (40 when waking up) to 130-140 even in warm up. A couple years back I tried MAF, but holding 135 for me would result in running with counterproductive form.
I also attach my fit report (I saw you comment on fit photos on another thread) - There are pre and post photos at the end. I think you will feel I should lower my front bars, I did want to get into a comfortable position that I can hold long time as my back would hurt too much. In the new fit I can easily hold 30 mins+, but maybe I should try and make it a bit lower over the next few weeks.
Thanks,
Julien
Yes, thank you for submitting the Fit report. If you get off the bike and take a picture from the side you will undoubtedly notice that the nose of your saddle, the front tip, is well behind the center of your Cranks. If you move that saddle forward it off to has to go a little bit up. By doing that this gives you the flexibility to then bring those fun bars down. If you go to
TTbikefit.com you will see a bunch of pictures that should help you out in this regard.
You can also take a few pictures and submit them here for the team to give you feedback on in the bike fit thread.
I have ordered an ant+ HRM - note it only affects my Zwift rides, I do get HR info on my runs, etc but it will be better to get it all in one place.
The HR is definitely drifting down, so the direction is good and I dont think there is any reason for concern - just that it makes it a bit harder to use as a gauge for pacing.
So Syracuse went well - I was scared to suffer so much that it would get me doubting I could get anywhere near finishing IMMT. The big thing was to be able to go through the day fully in control, despite the hills and the heat. While slow in absolute term, my 2:08 half marathon is better aligned to my flat half marathon times.
I did have some recurring mechanical issues; my front derailleur was locked the whole ride. It keeps happening despite recabling so I am pondering what to do. Changing the bike so late is risky, maybe switching to SRAM eTap or DI2 may solve that (but may bring in new issues I am unaware off). I am going to have to decide very quick so whatever option can be dialed in and tested before too late. I think my setup of bottles / toolbox / computer is very poor and an afterthought so I will look at solving that at the same time.
I hope you are almost recovered and ready to get back to work!
I have the strava files with HR for Syracuse and I just received my ANT+ HRM so should be good going forward:
Bike: https://www.strava.com/activities/1645581930/analysis
Run: https://www.strava.com/activities/1645581894
I also found the following thread on forum https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/24697/etap-or-di2#latest, in which issues with the 2012 Trek internal cabling sound a bit similar. My bike is a Blue Triad SL (so not Trek), but is from the same period so not impossible that the geometry is very similar (add to that that they seem to not do that model anymore, seems suspiciously similar). I got an eTAP quote that is not too far from what Derek got in the thread. I am leaning towards doing that through the rest of the year and re-assess for a bike change after season is over.
Recovery wise, I felt no issues at all, in fact did a swim + bike the day after the race and then the 5*1km run tempo. I have just started a new job, so I am struggling adjusting schedule, but expect to be fully back from this week-end onwards
I have done the eTap upgrade, so far so good - that should put these derailleur issues behind, I do need to play a bit more outdoor with it as I do most my training on zwift. I also got the HRM setup now for my bike workouts.
Logistics: I have restarted working so scheduling sessions is a bit more challenging esp. for swims. Next week is meant to be camp week, due to work schedule, I plan on doing the back to back rides on zwift, do you see this being an issue with that?
Body compo: feeling good on that, I was looking to be around 150lbs at Mt Tremblant (erring on the lower end given the hills). Now, I am at 145lbs without trying so will just aim to make good food choices but doesn't feel the need for any drastic diet.
Swim: No issue for now, following a lot of the ebook advices and focus on position.
Bike: Feeling a bit weak. Today's FTP 10',14',10' (week 14 L2) I had to take a 1' break before the last session. I did do the full workout after catching my breath, but feel I lack top end power (90%+ FTP is very hard to hold more than a few minutes - the week-end long rides have a couple spikes at 90% and I just cant hold there either). Probably some fatigue + weight loss driven (or just me overthinking it) and presumably at this stage I should worry more about time in the saddle with proper nutrition.
Run: Seems to go fine, the FTP session feels quite easy. Dreading a bit the coming weeks with longer runs but so far I havent struggled to complete the sessions on the plan (unlike the bike ones). I am worried about the logistics though of doing 2h or even 3h long runs midweek - guess I will figure out but that may involve at least in part treadmill runs.
On our call, you mentioned about downloading the Tremblant file to load that into the trainer; I tried to go to best bike split and create a file out of the 2015 course and a target power of about 155W (70% of my 220 FTP). Is this what you meant, ie run that in ERG mode? I guess it simulates the power profile, if there was something that simulated the grade that would be very good but doubt that exists. Were you thinking of another way?
As for scheduling a run, you can keep splitting it for as long as is required. For example, you could do one hour and 15 minutes in the morning and again in the evening. It’s not perfect, but if it fits your schedule we can’t argue. Alternatively, we could shuffle your schedule so you get that long run done on the Sunday after your long Saturday ride for a few key weeks. That is what happens In the minimalist plan if you want to check it out.
Please continue to make sure you’re taking in a good amount of protein to help you recover and build muscle post workout. We don’t want you to be too light!
Your comment on bike power makes complete sense, it's all related to fatigue. I had to have complete rest before this week's FTP and it was just too easy to hit the targets - if anything my FTP is likely higher than when I last tested.
Overall I have struggled a bit to get all the sessions done in the last couple weeks (work got badly in the way). So far though the run has not suffered too much and I have not had to split the runs (and could do the 3h run with no issue - shortened by about 10 mins).
On the bike side, I have tended to break the very long sessions in 2 with an hour break (since I had to do them indoor, I find I get very uncomfortable from 3hrs on - legs are fine).
On the swim, I missed sessions - with work changes, difficulty in settling on new pool schedule etc, but that should be solved now and I have a pool very close to work.
As I am 3 weeks from IMMT, I am trying to optimize what time is left (or reduce the panick depending on which angle you look at it). I plan on following the plan very closely, maybe:
- trying to add swim frequency even for shorter duration until I feel that routine / feel coming back. When swim unfit (as is the case now) I tend to use the pullboy a lot.
- bike, unless you think breaking the sessions is an issue and I really need 5-6hrs consecutive, I plan to continue as I am doing.
I think the bike upgrades put me in a better place (eTap, double bottle holder, computer mount). I am currently riding 11 spd 53/39 and 11/26. The recommendation would be to go for a 11/28 I think (I would rather avoid changing the front one at this stage). Is this something I should do or is the difference not worth the risk of adding yet another change late?
I am starting to look at the race plan and looking to use best bike split for that and going through race reports from previous years. I will be in MT from the Wednesday so hope to use that time to rehearse the critical bike sections and swim the lake. There is tons of info on the wiki / podcasts which is great help.
Thanks
When you get out there for race week, make sure everything works and ride your bike on the run course as well as out to the highway and back in, past the resort and up Duplisses. This is in all of our guidance.
I didnt quite follow the comment "We just want to run and consistency, has your run Fitness is finished". Maybe keep with the run frequency?
>I don’t know what your longest individual ride has been
I did do camp week which was 6h saturday, 4h sunday. I broke them into 2 sessions each per day with a short break (30 mins) so I think it was 3.5+2.5 saturday and 2.5+1.5 on sunday.
This week-end I did 4h straight saturday, 1.5+2h on sunday. I do agree I lack volume for the last 3 weeks (work came in the way right at the worst time) and am quite nervous on that; indoor sessions are really hard past 3h from a comfort perspective - I am not struggling as much outdoor, presumably due to more movement on the saddle. Not sure whether I should do something about it or just put it behind - dont want to risk anything at this stage.
For IMMT, I feel:
Swim: Being around 35' half, I think getting through not too spent should be doable, but could do with the confidence boost of a couple of long sessions before the race. I will have no time target.
Bike: I plugged in my numbers on best bike split; I was looking at being conservative and maybe go for IF of 0.65, with a max at 0.78 for climbs (so about 155W). That came up at 6h30; looks good to me though I am not worrying about time (besides ensuring I have enough time to make it even with a very slow marathon). I have ordered the 28 cassette, so will switch that in.
Run: It's been going very well, sessions have felt easy, I think I only missed a couple over the whole program. However my only marathon experience (10y ago) was not a good one, so I am dreading that one and the state I will be in to run it.
Nutrition: the plan I followed at 70.3 syracuse worked well so I plan on following the same. On the run I would front-load the nutrition, so take gels earlier than planned where possible in case the gut shuts later. I may put in special needs bag some solid food (even maybe something enjoyable if I am not going to be made fun of) to break the GE + blocks routine.
I agree with some longer swims in the next two weeks. There is no cost to you swimming longright now, even on the Monday or Tuesday of race week so please go ahead. It’s almost as important mentally to have that in your back pocket.
I think you sets the baseline for the ride around .68 to .7. Anything less than .68 is almost too easy and can really won’t help your overall performance as things start to decline from an effort perspective. I was suggest to The climb is at .80, and the combination of those two changes should be more reflective of what you want to do on race day.
I had a great time at Mt Tremblant and I am now ready to get going again. Here is the race report:
https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/25080/juliens-first-ironman-at-mont-tremblant-race-report#latest
Summary: I had a good day, was broadly in line with expectations. I had a few nutrition issues but for a first ironman that is to be expected. If anything, I was hoping for a bit more on the run but the blocker was not my fitness but rather the carry over of the nutrition issue from the bike. I had zero muscle pain day 2 and have had no recovery challenge.
I dont have any race planned for the year but there is an odd chance for a november marathon. I am thinking to train as if it's on and worst case it will be fitness that can be carried onto next year outseason. To that end, I have loaded the marathon balanced plan from Final Surge, let me know if that is not appropriate.
For next year, I feel I need to: a) push up my FTP (went from 185 to 230 this year, so target around 250) b) be more disciplined on the run frequency c) keep swimming while it stays pleasant and at minimum once a week.
I am still thinking in terms of races for next year, will likely move back to several 70.3 and make the next 140.6 for 2020 to limit the family impact. I feel all my PRs are attainable so will look to get faster next year before I get longer the year after. My long term dream would be to BQ so this shift probably makes sense?
@Julien P - so pumped for you. The first IM is always a big roll of the dice; lots of good lessons learned there for you.
My thoughts...
In terms of long term improvement...some body comp focus might be nice as well. I'd recommend this course if you haven't seen it yet.
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick
Thanks, it makes complete sense.
I realize now that it makes more sense to take a break rather than cram a marathon block. Instead I will start the run durability in a week or so and be very disciplined at it (I missed a few sessions last year, so I will try and do a streak this time).
For next year, I want to get faster at 70.3 and maybe marathon before going back in for a full the year after. The RDP / OS helped a lot last year, I think year 2 should bring more improvements now I know what to expect.
On the body comp, I am not doing too bad (1.77cm, about 65kg). I have diet restrictions already because I have hemochromatosis (iron overload), so I eat no red meat, very little alcohol. So I try not to make my life more miserable by applying more restrictions. However a lot of what I do is aligned to the body comp advices.
Thanks,
Julien
Awesome! You are already in a good place so let’s just keep this train moving forward!
Hello @Coach Patrick
I am starting to plan for next year's races. I think I will look for 2 70.3s and another shot at a marathon with a goal of improving my PRs at both distances.
I did a (hilly) 5k last week-end and did 21:50 (I trained at a 23:40 last year) so was pleasantly surprised at the jump in vdot. The VDOT tables imply a marathon equivalent time of 3:28 which is hard to believe given my PR of 4:08 (albeit that was 10 years ago and my only attempt). It's also not very far from a BQ for my age (3:20). Maybe a bit too ambitious for next year.
For now, I will go into RDP until the outseason where my goal will be to improve more my vdot and my ftp. I already signed for Maine 70.3 in august and may look for a June 70.3 (or possibly Alpe d'Huez triathlon) and I will look for NYC or Chicago marathon.
I have started looking more into my stryd numbers, given my run focus, should I look to use more the stryd zones for training over the RDP or should I just keep getting data and use that later in the year?
Does this make sense?
Julien
@Julien P - I love the long-term focus. I think that’s perfect. Do you still have quite a bit of strength to gain on the bike and the run, and sometimes adding the volume of an Iron Man into the mix is almost an obstruction to that type of progress.
Yes to the RDP plan for now, that’s exactly the way you should go. I encourage you to continue wearing your Stryd and recording the data, but the other than improving your cadence and form there’s not a ton of work ever do with your power meter right now.
You might want to post the data for the run to the forms to get feedback from your teammates on what opportunities there are for improvement based off of that information.
By the way, that is a fantastic 5K results. Proof positive that your progression is working and that you do have greater fitness. Remember that when we raise the left with speed, the job for the remainder of the time just to fill in the right where we spend increasing amounts of time at incrementally higher pieces to build the Endurance portion of that fitness. Sounds like you are already on the right path!
@Coach Patrick
I have now set my schedule for next year:
For all of these I am looking at improving my times (70.3 sub 6h that I will target in Maine since Connecticut will be much tougher, Marathon target around 3h45 or below, my vdot implies around 3h30 so I will do all I can to get close).
I assume based on that I would stay in RDP until January OS, and would follow the same set of plans as last year (swim camp then 70.3 plan through June)?
Thanks,
Julien
I love the season! I think it’s perfect. Yes to the render ability program through the January house season. The goal here is to really stay frequent on the runs had a very reasonable pace, Ideally TRP. He might also want to consider planning for our holiday run challenge between Christmas and New Year’s. That would be a nice run peak before you recover and start the outseason.
@Coach Patrick
I raced 70.3 Connecticut last week-end (overall: 5h39, prior PR of 6:02 at Atlantic City). While the swim was short, I am still happy with the result, the hills are tough and my run time went from 2:08 at Syracuse last year to 2:02 this year (maybe Conn is even more hilly). My training leading to the race was not ideal (I followed OS then Half Bike Focused but had many cancelled sessions in the last weeks due to work) though I had been quite disciplined over the OS. I had lowered my expectations somewhat, so I am more than happy with the result and it has left me energized.
My plan for the rest of the year remains:
Could you help me map out the plans to follow over the next few months? Should I go for Half Bike focused again until Maine? Or Half Run focused this time maybe (or the new one - run focus block)? How do you suggest I build up the marathon fitness, would that be after completing the 70.3 Maine? (I was even thinking about blending the half plan for the bike sessions + a marathon key sessions for the run - maybe not a wonderful idea and not obvious how to track).
My long term goal is to lower my marathon time (and get as close as I can to BQ which for me is 3:20) and my half IM (I cant imagine qualifying for anything with the sort of times I put in HIM/IM - so the view would be to prepare me for a second go at a full IM, this time with more solid foundation - did 13:38 for my first full)
Thanks,
Julien
@Julien P - congratulations on the race. that course is VERY hilly, I agree that your run time there was a significant improvement. I think the best bet is to break the next three months us as:
- 4 weeks Run Focus Block 6/10 thru 7/07
- Run Focus Half Plan 7/8 thru 8/25
- We would move from HIM to Marathon over the 8 weeks of Sept and Oct to be marathon ready.
The only change I would make to the Half plan is to be specific with the paces of the Threshold Run (FTP run) and the long run. The key is to make a realistic determination of what your goal pace should be for the fall. This could be a run test we do this summer or perhaps you have a recent "Run only" race result we could use?
If you agree with the above Plan layout And need help putting it into Final Surge let me know.
@Coach Patrick
I am now in the final week before going to Maine 70.3. Training has been going ok all in all - some interruptions, but I think I am making general progress.
Once that race is done, I have 2 objectives and wonder if you can help me with the planning:
Thanks,
Julien
Julien- The first order of business for you is to recover from the 70.3. I want to give you at least a solid week for that. Put up a link to your race report for me here so I can understand how things went for you and, more importantly, how you feel heading into the marathon training.
Knowing that will help me determine what the next best step for you with regards to training for the marathon. https://endurancenation.wufoo.com/forms/q7a69dd1purtki/
Doing Saint George’s great, we will just have to be creative with how we structure and rest so you can still build to the race while staying healthy and sane!
Thanks @Coach Patrick
I posted the report in the form - I cant find a way to link it from here so let me know if you dont see it and I will repost in the main forum. Overall, it went ok (5h44); I had a poor swim but I am not reading too much into it. I think I could have done better on the run. Now I feel very fresh (maybe too fresh) and ready to get going.
The run is the part I want to improve now; I have made strong improvements on the bike and don't find it hard to motivate myself for the bike. It would be great if I get to enjoy the run as much and start posting more respectable times so I thought a focus on that would help (although often improving the run comes with improving the bike first)
I found it! Thank you for sharing. I hear you are wanting to enjoy the run. For me that type of work starts now. I am referring to our run durability program with the structure to help you create an excellent baseline of run competency and strength.
Depending on what your fall schedule is, this is something you can do for one or two months right now just to stay fit which helps you build off of this year, and start developing that strength on the run as a foundation you can capitalize on next season.
Let me know if you need help finding those plans in Final Surge.
Coach P
Hi @Coach Patrick
Sorry, I wanted to confirm that nothing got lost in translation since I realize info was spread over the last 2 notes:
So I thought balanced marathon -> Nov 3rd (NYC marathon), then either OS / IM Full plan.
Are you suggesting I drop the balanced marathon plan and look at RDP instead? Would that provide enough volume to be marathon fit in November?
Thanks,
Julien