Home Coaching Forum 🧢
Options

Patrick Large Official Coach Thread

13

Comments

  • Options

    Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.


    Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.


    Coach Notes


    Your Races

    • 06/20/2020, Zugspitz Ultra, 100k, 5500m climbing


    Season Update

    These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.


    •   Last updated by Coach on  November 19, 2019
    • On 11/18/2019 Load the -- Durability for Runners 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 12/15/2019
    • On 12/16/2019 Load the -- Durability for Runners 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 1/12/2020
    • On 1/6/2020 Load the -- OutSeason for Runners Plan, 14wks to end on 4/12/2020
    • On 3/2/2020 Load the -- UltraRun Plan (16 wks) to end on 6/21/2020
    • On 6/22/2020 Load the Post Half Iron Transition Plan, All Levels (2wks) to end on 7/5/2020


    Your Notes

    Last years I was kinda badass, but not too badass. Jumped into the ultra world and loving it.I am fit (not race ready fit, but fit) and looking to keep the ball rolling

    Let's get to work!


    ~ Coach P

  • Options
    edited November 20, 2019 9:44AM

    Hey @Coach Patrick how does what you have planned fit into this training theory. It's based on specificity and reverse periodization. I think that each of these can bleed into one another if starting in January. The answers may be in the plans (I haven't looked yet) ow to January is keeping running 4x week and cross training 1-2x week.

    1. Fitness- 6 weeks running 4x week and cross training 1-2x week. (fun unstructured runs)
    2. 10K speed work- 6 weeks focusing on intervals and speed repeats.
    3. Threshold work- 8 weeks focusing on tempo-ish runs.
    4. Ultra specific plan- starting 16 weeks out focusing on climbing/quad-glute strength and quality back to back long runs.

    In terms of my schedule, this is what it should look like. I was a little hasty in putting it into the calculator... oops, sorry. 😀

    Zugspitz / Mozart: 20th June. Yes Zugspitz will be a repeat race as last year it got cut to 65k. or the Mozart which is a 100k as well.

    Grand Canyon: Beginning of July. Will do at least one river crossing. Maybe twice if I am lucky. Would love to attempt R3 again, but July will be brutal, so probably not going to happen

    Swiss Alps 100: 14th of August: A MOSTER 100k with 6700+ alt gain (22,000+ft)

    100K: October/November

    Also trying to work on the beard game to catch up to @Tim Sullivan

  • Options

    @Patrick Large I believe we are on the same page...again, I won't see the plans from Tim Cronk until this weekend, but that is how they are built with quality early, volume + specificity. More coming soon on that...

    I would like your input on how we can keep your body strong enough for those runs.

    Something minimalist, can do at home, but keeps you functionally strong enough to manage early intensity and later volume. Thoughts on that?

  • Options

    I have a strength program that I do at home. A combination of core, glutes / hamstrings, and quads. I've worked with a physio on the program and I think it's pretty solid. All using bands and/or plyometric movements.

    I fully trust my physio and the plan as it is a joke I work with him since his athlete roster is covered with literal world record holders.

    Let me know if that is what you meant by "...how we can keep your body strong enough for those runs... Something minimalist, can do at home..."

  • Options

    Yes, that is perfect @Patrick Large ...if you are ever willing to share that (Core Bikini Briefs Program? 🤣) I am sure the Team would appreciate it.

    Looking at the plans I have from @tim cronk Here on my desk, the reverse periodization is key. Also key is the long back to back run days (on a few critical weekends) vs obscenely long individual runs. Training for a 50miler, this means that 2 x 20 miles day is way better than 1 x 40 mile day.

    I should have those plans out in January but let me know how I can help otherwise!

    ~ Coach P

  • Options

    Thanks a lot @Coach Patrick I will see if I can put a short video together showing all the movements as it will be better than we trying to explain it all. I think I have mentioned this before but the physio who prescribed them is on retainer to a run camp in Kenya and is there monthly. He loves to drop names and show pictures of the athletes he works with (more than a handful of them are track and field or marathon world record holders).

    I am looking forward to the seeing the tweaks in the 50 mile plan in January. It is perfect for me as my racing distance now 100k. I'll post this here and not in the groupme as I am ashamed of calling myself an ultra runner with such weak sauce goals 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Also, @tim cronk (although he doesn't know it) is my ultra guru. I hang on every word that comes out of his mouth, so I hope he isn't just talking shit to hear himself speak. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Anyway looking forward to 2020 and racing some epic super gnarly climbing ultras in Austria, Switzerland, Germany, etc

  • Options

    I think I saw an epic race you just signed up for on the group me! Or maybe it was Facebook? Either way, I can see that you continue to push your limits… Which is awesome. I am almost done with our traveling plans and will soon be moving to the ultra ones. I know you guys are ready for them!

  • Options

    PS Tim is the real deal, so no worries there!

  • Options

    Yes @Coach Patrick I will race 3 100k's this year. mid June, mid August, and mid October... None of these are walks in the part as they have massive climbing involved.

    Yes pushing the limits day by day!!

  • Options

    So legit. Reflecting our our 2019 conversations about motivation and how far you've come. It never gets easier, but I appreciate how hard you are grinding!

    💪

    ~ Coach P

  • Options

    Hey @Coach Patrick thanks for the message. Yes, ebb and flow, but right now I am all in. And enjoying the process.

    My PT asked me today my year goals, and I simply said "To finish happy and healthy!"

    I've got a different perspective of the game of life and things are flowing.

    I've struggled with alcohol, depression, and anxiety in the past (to name a few 🤣 ) But everything at the moment seems to be firing on all cylinders.

  • Options

    Surf that wave brother..and thanks for sharing the good karma with the team! 🌊🏄🏻🌊

  • Options

    Hey @Coach Patrick Looking ahead a bit at my schedule...

    I will race my first 100k on 20-June

    Then I will race again 14-August

    That gives me 7 weeks 6 days in between the two.

    I will 100% need a SOLID week to recover may two before I can really get after it again.

    I will be in Flagstaff, AZ for a solid week from July 3rd to the 11th, where I plan to just climb and descend for a week and will probably play in the grand canyon for at least a day. That is all specificity.

    The last bit of my training schedule you have the following which seems totally wrong. What do you suggest in its place? Or is it correct? What's the thought behind it?

    On 6/22/2020 Load the Post Half Iron Transition Plan, All Levels (2wks) to end on 7/5/2020

  • Options

    @Patrick Large I will take a look at your final search account to see how the dates work for that seven week block that you mention. I was using the half IM transition plan as a recovery mechanism and would prefer that you use cross training as a tool at that time instead of just "not running."

    I believe you still have other training modalities at your disposal. Of course, you are welcome to just follow the post marathon in recovery plan as well.

    Don't worry, I don't want you to think I thought you were A tri geek. 🤣

  • Options

    @Patrick Large Ok a bit more updated here for you. Once you are through the first race...

    • On 6/22/2020 Load the  -- Post Marathon / Half Marathon Plan (2wks) to end on 7/5/2020
    • On 7/6/2020  Load the  -- UltraRun Plan (16 wks) to end on 8/16/2020 (starting in CO)
    • On 8/17/2020 Load the  -- Post Marathon / Half Marathon Plan (2wks) to end on 8/30/2020

    So, the "second" race is a bit open here. I like the idea of "play" and "fun" in AZ while you are there in that official first week back to training. I assume you'll find limits and bump into them, etc, but as long as you are on the fun side you'll be okay.

    That said, I think we have some flexibility on event #2. I'd prefer to connect to sort out your first race lessons learned (maybe you'll write up a report we can use) and figure out what's best for the build to The second one. I assume you be a different physical place, and that you might also have different goals.

    So maybe we do a call in that 6/22 - 7/5 window (I believe I'll be in France). What say you?

    ~ Coach P

  • Options

    yeah @Coach Patrick all sounds good man.

  • Options

    @Patrick Large You so chill... 👍

  • Options

    @Coach Patrick what's up homie?

    Season road map question for you (and the short answer is fine)

    My June race was rescheduled to September... so now tentatively on the books I have 100k races August, September, and October.

    I'd like to train for the Aug race as if it it going to happen... worst case scenario is I am jack'd in Aug. "So Jack'd !!!"

    I am coming off about 6 weeks of foot rehab and feeling good. Fitness is down a bit unfortunately and weight is up. All things that will get back in place straight away so not to worry.

    Aug 14th is the proposed Swiss Alps 100k... so were do I start.

    Many thanks-

  • Options

    Great to hear from you! You were really diligent with your recovery from this for the setback, kudos to you for being so patient. Not everyone can do that.

    Before I go nuts for the recommendation, what kind of cross training opportunities do you have? I believe we have an opportunity to pair running with some other non-weight-bearing activity for the short term to help your fitness get going while your foot adapts to running again.

  • Options

    @Coach Patrick This time around I was 100% listening to Dr's orders, but also my foot was legit fucked, so I couldn't do much more anyways. But 1:00 jogging with 1:00 walking x7 SUUUCKS.

    For my cross training I am stuck with cycling and yoga. That'a about it

  • Options

    @Patrick Large - Yes that Type of Run / Walk stuff is miserable. Capture that feeling so we never overtrain again (I know it was different this time). As of right now you are 16 weeks out until your first event. That matches well with the standard ultra plan that we have. However, I think you are a long way away from running 30 miles a week here in the first week. So while I have loaded it into your calendar, I'm not super concerned about you hitting that mileage. In fact, I would encourage you not to do so.

    There are five runs in the calendar, and I would recommend that you replace the high intensity intervals on Wednesday with a bike workout of similar flavor. In order to get the desired training effect, we want you riding at essentially your Run heart rate zone.

    On the weekend, you can either replace the second run with a steady bike ride depending on how you feel. If you feel better than normal, you could ride for the first half and then run for the second half. In the case of this upcoming weekends nine miler, that will be 45 minutes on the bike followed by 45 minutes on the run.

    I recommend you follow this progression for the first four weeks, which takes you through memorial day or whatever jacked up holiday you celebrate over there. 🤣. Then we can get back to normal.

    What say you?

    ~ Coach P

  • Options

    @Coach Patrick I agree that my body is a bit away from actual daily mileage. That being said should I start with this plan just modified or do a different plan for the first 4 weeks.

    For the Wednesday WKO: It's been a long time since I've done "work" on my bike. What if I just put the bike on the highest gear and hammered for a minute and a half and then recovered for 3:00.

    I think for the Saturday run, I'll do the distance but maybe go 30:00 on and 3:00 off to 9 miles. As for Sunday, I think a brick could / should work.

    First 4 weeks for this sounds OK- and yes I've got no clue what whack ass🇹🇲 holiday I'll have at that time.

  • Options

    @Coach Patrick

    What about doing a coaches call one of these days? Am I up for one of those?

  • Options

    @Patrick Large I'm not keeping track but given the extenuating circumstances we can totally make it happen.

    Saw you talking in the ultra group me. I think my intent with the description for the first four weeks Is just to get your training aerobically for the total amount of time that you would have done your 30 mile run in. The plan estimates 12 minute miles? So that will be 360 minutes or approximately six hours of total aerobic time.

    Within that block we have the sustainable running that you can do to keep you going and stay healthy. This first four weeks is a critical bridge between where you are now and where we want to be for the final 12 weeks to the event itself.

    Most athletes make the mistake of drawing a straight line between now and 28 days from now. In reality it's much more of an exponential curve in terms of your fitness but if you stare at it closely enough it sure looks like a straight line. Don't put yourself in that box.

    I'll take whatever you can do on the bike at this point we are looking for a safe place to do the kind of work we need to get you fitter without endangering your leg.

    Shoot me a PM on GroupMe and we can set up a time; I forget the time zones!

    ~ Coach P

  • Options

    @Coach Patrick

    OK, just like everyone, my year has been a bit fucked, but not because of corona... it seems that a lot of people are doing their own FT events.

    So here is my new current plan. I am looking to do my own FT 112k on the 12th of December. It's got roughly 4000m climbing.

    That race is about 23 weeks out. I'll load the ultra plan 16 weeks out, but wondering what to do for the 7-8 weeks prior. I was thinking about RDT, but not sure.

    I would guess I am starting out at almost zero, so not sure what plan of action is. I will keep up with my yoga and will also add some strength training in the mix.

    Thanks for the help- onward and upward!

  • Options

    I hear you. Everyone has had a charge for very different course than we planned for this season. Fortunate that many of us still have our health, but the logistical complications certainly take a tour. In your case, I think having additional time is a real benefit to your training. You’ve done some great work with consistency and rebuilding. If possible, I would like to see a little more diversity in your training. How open are you to doing some cycling in these early weeks? I don’t know if the weather is better for you now or not, but my guess is I hear you. Everyone has had a charge for very different course than we planned for this season. Fortunate that many of us still have our health, but the logistical complications certainly take a tour. In your case, I think having the additional time is a real benefit to your training. You’ve done some great work with consistency and rebuilding. If possible, I would like to see a little more diversity in your training. How open are you to doing some cycling in these early weeks? I don’t know if the weather is better for you now or not, but my guess is likely yes. That aerobic variety can really help! Let me know.

    ~ Coach P

  • Options

    @Coach Patrick I am open to cycling training. I will be commuting to work so maybe I can work that into a structured workout.

    Also my son and I are going on a bikepacking adventure in about a month. About 150 miles and we'll do it over 3 days. So I get in some nice spinning this month anyway.

  • Options
    edited July 14, 2020 4:20PM

    @Patrick Large - I like how you worked in cycling on Mondays amd on the weekend as well, it's possible you could do to bike workouts a week is Monday Friday, very easy. And then on the weekends when you have a reduction in mileage replace one of those workouts with a long bike as well. This would mean an average of two workouts a week on the bike, and on some weeks, every third, You might have three bike workouts.

    I do see a pretty significant reduction in those long runs though. Just wanted to check in and see how things are going and if there's anything I can do to help out. We do want to keep some of those we can miles up to avoid having to ramp things up later. Let me know what's going on.

    ~ Coach P

  • Options

    @Coach Patrick maybe I am drunk reading this or maybe you were drunk when writing it, but I've not got a clue what you are trying to say. hahaha

    Is there better engrish words you can use??

  • Options

    Edited. And you are probably drunk too. 😂

Sign In or Register to comment.