@Jeff Horn - thanks for sharing.. the failures are as important as the successes in learning how to test. you have a good idea now of how not to do it, but don't undershoot on the next one.. I am thinking back on my WKO from yesterday and realizing it was a good strong wko.. but no gorilla fight... next week's gonna be different in that regard. I am experimenting with the extra work in the form of a 30' "ez" just ride type of ride on the off days. Partially because my running is still limited and I can't do any swimming for 5 more weeks.
Thanks @Paul Curtinand @Scott Dinhofer I met the gorilla and he didn't play nice. I will be ready for him next time. Paul, that website looked good. It gave a number that was in the ballpark of where I thought. Will certainly kick the workouts up a notch next week.
It is around the Week 6 - 7 time frame I normally see the Silverbacks come out of the woodwork during the OS. FTPs have been normalized, sandbagging, for the most part has been washed out, and wkos become real medicine.
You guys are ready. Hold the line, stick to the plan, be careful of over extending and, most importantly, try to have fun with this. We are not in the Olympic trials here.
I like Zwift in terms of making this fun to some extent.
@jeff Cornick may do run test today instead. Had a break in the rain so I'd like to get outside. Plugged my numbers into the bike calculator that Paul Curtin provided. May just take those #'s and run with it. Not sure I can battle the gorilla again tonight. (and for some reason I can't hyperlink your name in these threads...your name isn't in the pulldown?)
I did the week six 3x12 yesterday at slightly higher watts. Managed to fight off the gorilla for the firs two sets. He always seems to catch me after about 8 minutes into the third set. Have a 15K run on Saturday so will use that for the run test. Hopefully its not snowing
NO FT test for me this week. Weather here in Bend has been amazing so I am spending my bike time on the dirt. Typically 20 to maybe 40 degrees here this time of year. Yesterday was 54, today is 64 and tomorrow is supposed to be the same.
Pushing FT test to next week when temps are back to normal.
I am usually a downhill MTB guy but the local jump lines and upper trails are wet and muddy. So it looks like I am turning into a cross country guy. Hero dirt again today.
@jeff Cornick may do run test today instead. Had a break in the rain so I'd like to get outside. Plugged my numbers into the bike calculator that Paul Curtin provided. May just take those #'s and run with it. Not sure I can battle the gorilla again tonight. (and for some reason I can't hyperlink your name in these threads...your name isn't in the pulldown?)
I'm just not special! No idea...that's beyond my tech savvy abilities.
Got out for my test this morning. @Alicia Chase thanks for the ride on at about 6' of my 20' test.
Woke up at 4:30 to ensure I got an hour of time before Brody woke up. I was not feeling great after two days off, felt flat and had real trouble pushing the bigger watts during the 5' test.
New FTP 244 up 9 watts. 5' test @288 then 20' at 257 - Max HR was 170 so I know there a little more there. Will be pushing for a FTP of 261+ watts in week 14. That's 1 watt above my all time high.
@Robert Sabo I *almost* raced with you this morning on Zwift. I was cutting the time close getting set up and then Zwift had to download an update so I missed the starting gun. Dang it! Got in a decent workout anyway, an ABP ride with my highest all time 1 hour power according to TP.
My plan for the weekend is to test my Quark PM on my road bike against what the Elite Direto says it's cranking out to make sure the Direto isn't giving me an ego by overestimating. Hopefully they're close--by RPE I think they are... Does anyone know if it's possible to adjust the offset of your PMs? There is the re-zero option, but that doesn't seem to be the problem with my 4iiii. It just seems to be "off". I know PMs will vary from one to the other and I am fine just ignoring it because the precision is good, but if there were something simple to be done to fix it's accuracy I'd be interested in doing that!
@Carole Harbison - I find that the Direto and also the Kickr are about 15-20 watts above what my Quarq PM reads. Not really an overestimation, as every PM or trainer will be different from each other, but should be consistent within themselves.
I always use my PM's number for training and testing, as that is the one I will use on the road. To account for the trainer's wattage difference, I adjust my FTP up when using online training platforms (Zwift, TR, Sufferfest, etc.).
I scoff at calling this a Sufferfest. 18x 40/20 VO2 sets. That's only half of our usual EN Thursday wko. Mind you there were three sub threshold sets thrown in for good measure.
Instead of testing this week, I'm easing myself back into training. Someone brought a virus from hell to work and half of us have had it. I haven't been that sick since I had pneumonia many years ago, missed weeks 3&4. Tues: 3X6 Zn.4 at .97, .99, .98 with a short 10' brick run. HR really high. Thurs: 2X10X30"(15") with a short 15' brick run. Already feeling like getting back in the groove. Plan to keep ramping things back up.
Went on my first outside ride of the season. Just the Hubs and the open road. I have NEVER had the opening season ride be this good. Usually I feel like I've been put through a meat grinder. Kept my RPE moderate. We road my RR route from last year. I have about 500 miles on this route. Set 3 PR's. Hubs had a hard time keeping my wheel. Makes me wonder what I will be ready to do in four months when I toe the line at the Oregon Grand Fondo. I saw power numbers I have never seen before. I was cruising at 140 watts!
I did the FTP test on Tuesday. It was my first 'formal' FTP test in a long time, as I've just been analyzing hard ride files to gauge FTP over the last few months. I reminded of exactly why I hate 20' FTP tests. I have a real dread for the test for several days beforehand. Not because it's going to be a sufferfest, but because I always fear screwing up the pacing. This is always evident in the thoughts that go through my mind during the test. I usually have an FTP number in mind, and start the test at that number with the goal of either holding steady or building throughout the test. The internal dialogue always goes something like this:
1 min: I'm OK 3 min: I'm not OK 5 min: there's NO way I can hold this for 20'. I'm going to blow up 10 min: I'm blowing up. No I'm not. Yes, I am 12 min: I've invested too much suffering now. Not finishing this test would suck much worse than suffering for 8 more minutes. 15 min: Just go one more minute 16 min: Just go 10 more seconds 16 min 10 sec: I'm giving up 17 min: Why the hell am I doing this? 18 min: Hey look, new max HR! 19 min: That last minute took 17 hours. 20 min: (can't speak or think, or breathe, or... anything)
In all seriousness, I appreciate the reasons for testing, as well as the need to train mental toughness, but damn those tests are rough. I may try the TR ramp test next time to see if that's mentally more palatable.
On a positive note, It's soooo encouraging to see the training really starting pay dividends. My goal was to be at 4W/kg by race day (June). I'm close on my body comp goal (down to 158 lbs vs. goal of 155) and far ahead of where I thought I'd be with regard to FTP (Up to 284W from 265W vs. goal of 300W by race day.). If I can hit both the body comp and FTP goals, that would put me at 4.25W/Kg for 70.3 Coeur D'Alene.
I usually have an FTP number in mind, and start the test at that number with the goal of either holding steady or building throughout the test. The internal dialogue always goes something like this:
1 min: I'm OK 3 min: I'm not OK 5 min: there's NO way I can hold this for 20'. I'm going to blow up 10 min: I'm blowing up. No I'm not. Yes, I am 12 min: I've invested too much suffering now. Not finishing this test would suck much worse than suffering for 8 more minutes. 15 min: Just go one more minute 16 min: Just go 10 more seconds 16 min 10 sec: I'm giving up 17 min: Why the hell am I doing this? 18 min: Hey look, new max HR! 19 min: That last minute took 17 hours. 20 min: (can't speak or think, or breathe, or... anything)
That is exactly what goes through my head as well. I'm always more worried about screwing up the test than missing my wattage.
Who told @JohnStark that he could post all these MTB pics of himself smiling.. no one smiles in a hard WKO until it's over! (I wrote the preceeding comment before reading your 2nd post inviting me to give you shizz )
TOS Stage 8 - 120' 10x1:30 @ 1.10 5x30" Sprints @ 1.2 40' @ subthreshold This one hurt. Had to rest a couple of times as that 40' block was relentless. https://www.strava.com/activities/1399728405
This one hurt. I've accumulated a crapton of fatigue over the past week. Had to pace today's wko as tomorrow's is going be a 3 hour sufferfest, for lack of a better word.
so, Saturday... woke up early to do what i thought was a 5am MGCC "hang on ride" on Zwift and after a few computer issues, couldn't get on because my phone while plugged in all night somehow got drained... ughhh. got on the bike and did the first 30 minutes of the scheduled Saturday ride. phone got some charge, @Scott Giljum was on and said the ride started an hour later than I thought... Great ride, hard from the start, 60k of "hanging on," hearing @Coach Patrick & @tim sullivan working their arses off at the front.. While i finished in around the 40th %ile, and I think DFL (Dead effin last) of the EN crowd, I managed to ride at a .90IF for 90 minutes with a AHR of 147. 143 TSS for this ride alone!
Looking forward to doing THAT again!
note on #s below, my FTP peaked at 272 last year and I believe I am in the high 140s.. that may need an adjustment after this!
though if FTP = power you can hold for one hour, I held 247 for an hour...
Who told @JohnStark that he could post all these MTB pics of himself smiling.. no one smiles in a hard WKO until it's over! (I wrote the preceeding comment before reading your 2nd post inviting me to give you shizz )
Dude, I am on the trails! Who wouldn't be smiling! :-)
+1 for zwift and pushing me today. Wanted to bag it a 95' but came up on Volcano KOM this pushed me for another 25' then did a nice cool down to hit 50km and 135' total ride time.
I’ve been having a slow start getting into the groove after coming off of hiatus. Did the test. I have nothing to compare it to since I haven’t tested in a long time. I know I am the slowest person in this group, however I am not here to compare myself to anyone else, my results, humble as they are, help give me the framework from which to get faster and stronger. Onwards and upwards!
Grand daughter left Wednesday with my daughter, so I got my computer/study back! Tuesday test was like what @John K wrote above! Glad I am not the only one that goes through lactic acid hell!
Since I broke the frame on my trainer bike (very old Javelin tri-bike) in December, I took my old Cervelo P3 and threw it on in Jan for this OS. My power numbers have been about 10% less across the board. So, my test really doesn't compare to the last 4 years of power tests.
Regardless - I did the old Test on Thursday, which is 20'(2')20' and take the NP, and it almost exactly matched the 5'/20' I did on Tuesday. So, I get to "redial" new numbers in and just forget about what was.... So, like @Leslie Schneider Onwards and Upwards!
Took my road bike out today since it was 69 degrees and it felt liberating not to be in my pain cave!!!
Just did a couple test rides on Zwift with the Direto trainer against the quarq PM and yup @Phil Mills it was 15 watts over than what the quarq was saying and 30W over what the 4iii says. Good to have the comparison across the board to be able to calibrate efforts across bikes and I guess I'll use the direto whenever I Zwift race!
Good ~2h ride in the pain cave today watching the mens skiathlon with about 30 mins in the sweet spot and some short hard efforts. I see what people are saying now with the troubles around 10 second max efforts in erg mode (the whole time was spent ramping up and then forget about coming back down to recovery effort in any reasonable time). If I do that type of wko again I'll certainly turn erg off and just hammer the old fashioned way.
I enjoyed the slightly down week. My TSB went from a -30 last Sunday to +6 yesterday. I ended the week with a 2.5 hour bike on Zwift, which included a ~60' race, then a few efforts at Z2-Z3.
Comments
I am experimenting with the extra work in the form of a 30' "ez" just ride type of ride on the off days. Partially because my running is still limited and I can't do any swimming for 5 more weeks.
I recently tested using a 10 mile race on Zwift.
This week I am following week 6 of GF with hack.
Yesterday did a 1 lap race followed by a 23 mile race on Zwift. ~133 TSS
This morning I opted for the ODZ Expresso routine followed by a 3X(6+1+3) wko. ~130TSS
Run durability in play.
KMF all!
I met the gorilla and he didn't play nice. I will be ready for him next time. Paul, that website looked good. It gave a number that was in the ballpark of where I thought. Will certainly kick the workouts up a notch next week.
You guys are ready.
I like Zwift in terms of making this fun to some extent.
Keep posting, sharing, supporting each other!
SS
@Jeff Horn How did take 2 go today? Saw your post about it having have a tough go yesterday.
I did the week six 3x12 yesterday at slightly higher watts. Managed to fight off the gorilla for the firs two sets. He always seems to catch me after about 8 minutes into the third set. Have a 15K run on Saturday so will use that for the run test. Hopefully its not snowing
https://www.strava.com/activities/1396854886
Legs are getting chewed up. I'm up 4# inflammation weight gain is killing the diet challenge I have going with a coworker. I may have to pay up.
Pushing FT test to next week when temps are back to normal.
I am usually a downhill MTB guy but the local jump lines and upper trails are wet and muddy. So it looks like I am turning into a cross country guy. Hero dirt again today.
Did you do the run test?
Woke up at 4:30 to ensure I got an hour of time before Brody woke up. I was not feeling great after two days off, felt flat and had real trouble pushing the bigger watts during the 5' test.
New FTP 244 up 9 watts. 5' test @288 then 20' at 257 - Max HR was 170 so I know there a little more there. Will be pushing for a FTP of 261+ watts in week 14. That's 1 watt above my all time high.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1397408498
My plan for the weekend is to test my Quark PM on my road bike against what the Elite Direto says it's cranking out to make sure the Direto isn't giving me an ego by overestimating. Hopefully they're close--by RPE I think they are... Does anyone know if it's possible to adjust the offset of your PMs? There is the re-zero option, but that doesn't seem to be the problem with my 4iiii. It just seems to be "off". I know PMs will vary from one to the other and I am fine just ignoring it because the precision is good, but if there were something simple to be done to fix it's accuracy I'd be interested in doing that!
I always use my PM's number for training and testing, as that is the one I will use on the road. To account for the trainer's wattage difference, I adjust my FTP up when using online training platforms (Zwift, TR, Sufferfest, etc.).
Another fun day on the dirt ripping around the XC single track.. 1:10, 722' ascent, hero dirt.
Did 2 x 10' just for fun during the climbs. Both in Z4.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1398178427
I scoff at calling this a Sufferfest. 18x 40/20 VO2 sets. That's only half of our usual EN Thursday wko. Mind you there were three sub threshold sets thrown in for good measure.
Tues: 3X6 Zn.4 at .97, .99, .98 with a short 10' brick run. HR really high.
Thurs: 2X10X30"(15") with a short 15' brick run. Already feeling like getting back in the groove.
Plan to keep ramping things back up.
Great testing everyone!
Have a great week. I love the test results.
#workworks
1 min: I'm OK
3 min: I'm not OK
5 min: there's NO way I can hold this for 20'. I'm going to blow up
10 min: I'm blowing up. No I'm not. Yes, I am
12 min: I've invested too much suffering now. Not finishing this test would suck much worse than suffering for 8 more minutes.
15 min: Just go one more minute
16 min: Just go 10 more seconds
16 min 10 sec: I'm giving up
17 min: Why the hell am I doing this?
18 min: Hey look, new max HR!
19 min: That last minute took 17 hours.
20 min: (can't speak or think, or breathe, or... anything)
In all seriousness, I appreciate the reasons for testing, as well as the need to train mental toughness, but damn those tests are rough. I may try the TR ramp test next time to see if that's mentally more palatable.
On a positive note, It's soooo encouraging to see the training really starting pay dividends. My goal was to be at 4W/kg by race day (June). I'm close on my body comp goal (down to 158 lbs vs. goal of 155) and far ahead of where I thought I'd be with regard to FTP (Up to 284W from 265W vs. goal of 300W by race day.). If I can hit both the body comp and FTP goals, that would put me at 4.25W/Kg for 70.3 Coeur D'Alene.
Work works!
@john Katsoudas - AWESOME, just AWESOME
10x1:30 @ 1.10
5x30" Sprints @ 1.2
40' @ subthreshold
This one hurt. Had to rest a couple of times as that 40' block was relentless.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1399728405
This one hurt. I've accumulated a crapton of fatigue over the past week. Had to pace today's wko as tomorrow's is going be a 3 hour sufferfest, for lack of a better word.
Looking forward to doing THAT again!
note on #s below, my FTP peaked at 272 last year and I believe I am in the high 140s.. that may need an adjustment after this!
though if FTP = power you can hold for one hour, I held 247 for an hour...
+1 for zwift and pushing me today. Wanted to bag it a 95' but came up on Volcano KOM this pushed me for another 25' then did a nice cool down to hit 50km and 135' total ride time.
3X10@.90, .91 .91 and then 1x20 .85 1X40@ .84.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1401485605
Last week was a bust due to a week long migraine or headache thing. So weird.
Finally broke it Saturday so Mike took me to the new Lexus Velodrome to catch the track bike races, and that gave me such inspo for today.
Shiny new FTP numbers!
https://www.strava.com/activities/1403424045
Next week is going to be awesome!
Since I broke the frame on my trainer bike (very old Javelin tri-bike) in December, I took my old Cervelo P3 and threw it on in Jan for this OS. My power numbers have been about 10% less across the board. So, my test really doesn't compare to the last 4 years of power tests.
Regardless - I did the old Test on Thursday, which is 20'(2')20' and take the NP, and it almost exactly matched the 5'/20' I did on Tuesday. So, I get to "redial" new numbers in and just forget about what was....
Took my road bike out today since it was 69 degrees and it felt liberating not to be in my pain cave!!!
Good ~2h ride in the pain cave today watching the mens skiathlon with about 30 mins in the sweet spot and some short hard efforts. I see what people are saying now with the troubles around 10 second max efforts in erg mode (the whole time was spent ramping up and then forget about coming back down to recovery effort in any reasonable time). If I do that type of wko again I'll certainly turn erg off and just hammer the old fashioned way.
Great work everyone!