@Alexander E Evis Thanks for the note. We know how you feel. 😪 It's a bummer. We need to get back to finding some joy in your fitness. We know you like to stay active so lets get that balance where you enjoy the activity and recharge the motivation. We do need to change up your next training block. We don't need to do the volume ramp required for the IM. We can still maintain and gain fitness with bit less time commitment. Coach Patrick and I are talking about a couple of options. What are you interested in?
I'm not saying you need to take on ultra or a super long event, but think of these as a creative starting place for you. If you are just looking for something to get you through the next 4-8 weeks, thats cool too! 😎Let us know what you are thinking.
Thanks @matt limbert . Your responses are always encouraging and thoughtful.
Short term, burnout is the real villain. My overall mental load is higher than its been in years - I'm inches from hanging it up altogether. So that said, I'd to do the absolute minimum amount of work needed to maintain my current fitness. Those gains were hard won, I think I can use loss aversion to my advantage to get me out the door to keep them.
Medium term, let's for now assume the half is going off on 9/19 as they claim. It's highly unlikely but you can always hope. I don't think they can pull off an outdoor event near Montreal much later than that so we'll know soon enough if tehy're bagging IMMT altogether.
@Alexander E Evis - hey man, I’ve been following along and I think I get where you’re coming from. Essentially you were looking for more of a bottom up approach: what is the minimum amount of work that needs to be done to sustain what you have. Essentially I would look at this from a detraining perspective, which is something that we manage with athletes who have interruptions midseason due to injury or illness. Effectively detraining is a fairly lengthy process in terms of wiping out big gains. About two weeks of nothing.
step one = avoid two weeks if nothing. 😂
step two = agree to use minimum viable workouts to maintain fitness / reduce losses.
step three = define program with intensity to keep fitness high (and allow for rest), determine how much running you want to do.
on #3 I’d say 2 x HIIT workouts on the bike, 30 to 40’ max. 1 x ABP / tempo ride of 1h to 1:15 done. Run is less high intensity but could be 30’ on non bike days, with an hour steady on the weekends.
you could do that for 4 weeks before we need to revisit your physical/ mental state and determine next best option.
You got it @Coach Patrick . What I want is a 'holding pattern' that will allow me to re-charge mentally and payback some SAUs while the world decides what it will look like.
What you describe sounds about right: 3 rides, 3 runs/wk, averaging 45-60' each with an understanding that I'll be 70-80% compliant.
If I cant keep that up, then I need to figure something else out.
@Alexander E Evis - Super happy to work with you on this given the circumstances. You are not alone in being forced to choose the minimum viable training. You haven't done anything wrong, in fact this is a great place for us to start.
What I've done is outlined a basic week for you that I think Covers all the bases. Run speed, endurance and durability. Bike Strength, endurance and tempo (with some fun). See the image below.
Before I go any further, I think it's worthwhile for you to take a look at it and maybe even start going through the week. Then you can give us some feedback and we can decide if you want to replicate this or make any changes. How does that sound?
First of all, @Coach Patrick , thanks! I appreciate the help very much. It hadn't occurred to me that Id done anything 'wrong'...I'm just way too stretched mentally and have had all the external props I'd relied on for focus (ie races) kicked away.
Second, this may evolve into a plan you put on FS, a steady state plan when life gets in the way or youre transition disciplines...I don;'t know.
The framework looks great. I'm happy to hack the details it together myself from workouts in other plans, don't expect you to craft anything bespoke.
@Alexander E Evis - definitely didn't do something wrong, although that's a common response that most people take. When things are going well, they turn internally and start asking what it is that they themselves are doing wrong.
I agree 100% that this could become a great steady state version of a plan that we could use midseason to maintain sharpness. So I look forward to working on it with you and I appreciate the offer for you to help. I think the best way forward is for you to do this week, and then to give me this summary at the end of the week, say Friday, as to what you think.
I can then use that to craft the next few weeks going forward and set up some flavor of progression/recovery.
Here is why it worked: the psychic cost of those workouts was low. It was low in the hours leading up to them (no dreading or stressing the night before or the day of) and it was low during the workout (no voice asking ‘what’s the point anyway??’). So they all got done, just a hair longer/harder than advertised. And that’s what I needed: a low psychological load from training. So thanks!!
The Q we can only answer with time is what is the cost in terms of fitness? But it’s less than doing nothing.
I’ll just copy and past for next week.Thanks again!
@Alexander E Evis Thanks so much for the update! 😀 Bringing back the fun! That week worked out really well. 👊 Another copy and paste is a great idea. I have a feeling this is really going come together overall. Let's check in again next week.
OK @Coach Patrick & @matt limbert: 3 week of the holding pattern plan and things are going well. I've been able to slowl increasing intensity/length (5 intervals instead of 4 for the VO2 max run, 100mins instead of 75 for the long run etc..). I think the good thing is that the demands started low enough that I could actually finish a workout, get back that little shot of dopamine and re-addict myself to it.
I'm going to assume that the half IM that has been 'tentatively' rescheduled for 9/19 will actually go off so Ill load in the 4 week half prep plan. Instead of swims I'll do 65%-75% of the time doing aerobic work and then strength (if I can bear it, I HATE strength). I'm also going to assume level 1 even though I should be level 2.5 and Im going to give myself 5 weeks instead of 4. Just to be easy on the brain.
@Alexander E Evis - just hitting pause for a second here. I think it's really important for you developmentally to understand how are you Hakt your motivation to continue moving forward. I've heard that the build of our training plans is "relentless" more than a few times, and I realize that there's a downside to that situation.
You have tapped into an opportunity here that has helped you not only refocus but all the Palmer fitness you already started the season. Thanks for being open enough to working with us so we could create an opportunity together for this to happen. Onwards!
Thanks @Coach Patrick .for this and for all your help. It is good to pause and reflect, and very good know that it's ok (even necessary) to take the foot off the gas a little bit, from time to time
The problem is it crushed me for three days after!
On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:26 PM Coach Patrick < teamenforums+d25869-s6029573@gmail.com> wrote:
> [image: Endurance Nation Community] > > ------------------------------ > Coach Patrick commented on Alexander Evis Official Coach Thread [TeamEN] > > .82 on the ABP ride....big jump from the .77 the week before! 💪💥 nice! > > > > -- > Reply to this email directly or follow the link below to check it out: > > https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/comment/285667#Comment_285667 > Check it out > >
You can see from my last few rides and runs that my pacing and power is way way off what I'd been able to hang onto during my mental breakdown. I attribute some of that to the fact that we have decamped NYC for a month into the Catskills so things are a LOT hillier than usual for me and I'm off my trainer really for the first time.
But my last long run and my bike the other day were for real disasters - to the point that Im not doing my long workouts this weekend simply because I dont think I can finish them.
My question is: when should I shift to HR from pace/power when the temp rises? Or should I do it at all? If I look back at my last 'successful' split run on the 29th for example, I averaged 139bpm for the first 20min, 154 for the second 40mins and then 150 for the split 30min. Should I just try to dial those in for future long runs? And how should I manage the bike? [Unfort I forgot my strap the other day, but I can tell you the problems were more in my legs than my lungs, it was 101 realfeel degrees and I let my nutrition and hydration slide - I wasn't used to being on roads, they were pretty rough, hardly ever straight or flat and never not crowded with either cars or pedestrians.]
@Alexander E Evis Always great to hear from you. Awesome escape plan BTW!
RE: Heat.
Yes, short answer you will need to shift your power/pace targets with the change in temperature. Heart rate and your internal gauge of perceived exertion is a good place to start.
It happens to everyone. When the temperature picks up quickly, or you dramatically change your training location to hotter or humid location you will need to adjust your targets. Over 10-14 days you will see some improvement as your body adapts with increased blood plasma (you may gain water weight), and your body adapts to sweating more. But, there are limits. Using HR and your internal gauge of perceived exertion is a good place to start. Start with those HR targets for your run and just let the pace be the pace. You body is working extra hard to cool and move you at the same time. You can keep track of your 'hot weather' power or pace in your notes. You have been doing this long enough now that you have a good sense of the appropriate effort in those conditions. Pushing beyond that increases the training stress beyond your ability to recover, hence your desire to take some time off. Your body is telling you its had enough and needs to back off a bit.
If you really want to geek out about it check out the heat pacing tool here.
Thanks @matt limbert ! Transition from trainer to road + hills + heat is certainly a challenge! I did the same ride again yesterday and it was better (but still not good)!
@Alexander E Evis - as much as you're suffering, it's always important to remember that training in the heat is making you stronger. It's almost 150% of the normal impact of a regular ride. It requires 150% of the recovery as well, but I think you already figured that out. 🤣
When we switch to heart rate as a guide on these hot days, the focus is on a steadily building heart rate across the entire ride. It's not so much about using heart rate for intervals but rather saying my heart rate should gradually increase from the beginning until the end of the day. I don't want anything to peek too early, and then come crashing to earth in the middle of my ride.
You can, however, use heart rate as a "" and make sure you don't go too hard. So chase the white numbers, but when your heart rate gets uncomfortable sitting there versus forcing the whites to stay where you want them. You are still experiencing adaptations without pushing the legs that 100%. Eventually you will normalize and be much better.
Thanks @Coach Patrick ... heat has been my nemesis since my first sprint tri nearly 10 years ago.
I'm also discovering how externally motivated I am. My race that was in May was moved to Sept. and finally cancelled the day before yesterday. It's not flattering, but its good to know yourself. Hopefully motivation will return to try to "do 2020 in 2021" by the time the Outseason rolls around.
@Alexander E Evis don't let the change and motivation get you down. We are all affected in someway shape or form. The key is re-centering yourself on a goal that seems to be a bit of a stretch but a good project to challenge yourself with.
There are tons of options your teammates have come up with so far, they can totally help you out. Or feel free to ask me as well, I can certainly come up with something Evil! 😠
Ha! If the pool at the Y opens in time I'll try the DITRi, but if they don't I'll have to think of something else. Maybe I can persuade the family to let me swim at Coney Island.
@Alexander E Evis I got your Check-In update, and have pasted it below. This is part of our monthly process to stay connected, so thanks for filling it out!
I love the enthusiasm.... I give you a TEN! 💥 Time to transition to Run Durability...and you aren't alone. Lots of folks in the Run Chat (Group Me, under Community) will be making the move too. This is where we redirect this years fitness into next year's foundation. Super important!
My only other thought for you is if something cool comes up, and you want to do it (long run, trail run, century ride, big hill climb, etc)...get after it! You have a lot more flexibility this time of year, so we should take advantage of it.
~ Coach P
Durability Balanced Plan 1 (9 months out) -- 4 weeks.
Comments
@Alexander E Evis Thanks for the note. We know how you feel. 😪 It's a bummer. We need to get back to finding some joy in your fitness. We know you like to stay active so lets get that balance where you enjoy the activity and recharge the motivation. We do need to change up your next training block. We don't need to do the volume ramp required for the IM. We can still maintain and gain fitness with bit less time commitment. Coach Patrick and I are talking about a couple of options. What are you interested in?
I bet you can come up with a individually challenging event in the next 6-8 weeks to keep you focused, motivated, and low key enough so that it doesn't require epic preparation. Have you read Tim Cronk's report on his Fastest Known Time assault on Mt. Lemmon, Dave Tallo (Wicked Smart Member) look at how his training now fits into his long term progression, or listened Coach Patrick interview Rob Peters on his indoor Everest attempt and Strava segment hunting, or
I'm not saying you need to take on ultra or a super long event, but think of these as a creative starting place for you. If you are just looking for something to get you through the next 4-8 weeks, thats cool too! 😎Let us know what you are thinking.
Thanks @matt limbert . Your responses are always encouraging and thoughtful.
Short term, burnout is the real villain. My overall mental load is higher than its been in years - I'm inches from hanging it up altogether. So that said, I'd to do the absolute minimum amount of work needed to maintain my current fitness. Those gains were hard won, I think I can use loss aversion to my advantage to get me out the door to keep them.
Medium term, let's for now assume the half is going off on 9/19 as they claim. It's highly unlikely but you can always hope. I don't think they can pull off an outdoor event near Montreal much later than that so we'll know soon enough if tehy're bagging IMMT altogether.
Be well and thanks again,
AE
@Alexander E Evis - hey man, I’ve been following along and I think I get where you’re coming from. Essentially you were looking for more of a bottom up approach: what is the minimum amount of work that needs to be done to sustain what you have. Essentially I would look at this from a detraining perspective, which is something that we manage with athletes who have interruptions midseason due to injury or illness. Effectively detraining is a fairly lengthy process in terms of wiping out big gains. About two weeks of nothing.
step one = avoid two weeks if nothing. 😂
step two = agree to use minimum viable workouts to maintain fitness / reduce losses.
step three = define program with intensity to keep fitness high (and allow for rest), determine how much running you want to do.
on #3 I’d say 2 x HIIT workouts on the bike, 30 to 40’ max. 1 x ABP / tempo ride of 1h to 1:15 done. Run is less high intensity but could be 30’ on non bike days, with an hour steady on the weekends.
you could do that for 4 weeks before we need to revisit your physical/ mental state and determine next best option.
thoughts?
~ Coach P
You got it @Coach Patrick . What I want is a 'holding pattern' that will allow me to re-charge mentally and payback some SAUs while the world decides what it will look like.
What you describe sounds about right: 3 rides, 3 runs/wk, averaging 45-60' each with an understanding that I'll be 70-80% compliant.
If I cant keep that up, then I need to figure something else out.
Thanks guys!
@Alexander E Evis - Super happy to work with you on this given the circumstances. You are not alone in being forced to choose the minimum viable training. You haven't done anything wrong, in fact this is a great place for us to start.
What I've done is outlined a basic week for you that I think Covers all the bases. Run speed, endurance and durability. Bike Strength, endurance and tempo (with some fun). See the image below.
Before I go any further, I think it's worthwhile for you to take a look at it and maybe even start going through the week. Then you can give us some feedback and we can decide if you want to replicate this or make any changes. How does that sound?
First of all, @Coach Patrick , thanks! I appreciate the help very much. It hadn't occurred to me that Id done anything 'wrong'...I'm just way too stretched mentally and have had all the external props I'd relied on for focus (ie races) kicked away.
Second, this may evolve into a plan you put on FS, a steady state plan when life gets in the way or youre transition disciplines...I don;'t know.
The framework looks great. I'm happy to hack the details it together myself from workouts in other plans, don't expect you to craft anything bespoke.
Be well & safe,
AE
@Alexander E Evis - definitely didn't do something wrong, although that's a common response that most people take. When things are going well, they turn internally and start asking what it is that they themselves are doing wrong.
I agree 100% that this could become a great steady state version of a plan that we could use midseason to maintain sharpness. So I look forward to working on it with you and I appreciate the offer for you to help. I think the best way forward is for you to do this week, and then to give me this summary at the end of the week, say Friday, as to what you think.
I can then use that to craft the next few weeks going forward and set up some flavor of progression/recovery.
How does that sound?
~ Coach P
All right @Coach Patrick and @matt limbert look at that sea of green!
Here is why it worked: the psychic cost of those workouts was low. It was low in the hours leading up to them (no dreading or stressing the night before or the day of) and it was low during the workout (no voice asking ‘what’s the point anyway??’). So they all got done, just a hair longer/harder than advertised. And that’s what I needed: a low psychological load from training. So thanks!!
The Q we can only answer with time is what is the cost in terms of fitness? But it’s less than doing nothing.
I’ll just copy and past for next week.Thanks again!
@Alexander E Evis Thanks so much for the update! 😀 Bringing back the fun! That week worked out really well. 👊 Another copy and paste is a great idea. I have a feeling this is really going come together overall. Let's check in again next week.
OK @Coach Patrick & @matt limbert: 3 week of the holding pattern plan and things are going well. I've been able to slowl increasing intensity/length (5 intervals instead of 4 for the VO2 max run, 100mins instead of 75 for the long run etc..). I think the good thing is that the demands started low enough that I could actually finish a workout, get back that little shot of dopamine and re-addict myself to it.
I'm going to assume that the half IM that has been 'tentatively' rescheduled for 9/19 will actually go off so Ill load in the 4 week half prep plan. Instead of swims I'll do 65%-75% of the time doing aerobic work and then strength (if I can bear it, I HATE strength). I'm also going to assume level 1 even though I should be level 2.5 and Im going to give myself 5 weeks instead of 4. Just to be easy on the brain.
Thanks again,
AE
@Alexander E Evis - just hitting pause for a second here. I think it's really important for you developmentally to understand how are you Hakt your motivation to continue moving forward. I've heard that the build of our training plans is "relentless" more than a few times, and I realize that there's a downside to that situation.
You have tapped into an opportunity here that has helped you not only refocus but all the Palmer fitness you already started the season. Thanks for being open enough to working with us so we could create an opportunity together for this to happen. Onwards!
Thanks @Coach Patrick .for this and for all your help. It is good to pause and reflect, and very good know that it's ok (even necessary) to take the foot off the gas a little bit, from time to time
Only question now is if I can keep it up!
Be well,
AE
We'll be watching @Alexander E Evis ! 🤣
~ Coach P
I know you guys will @Coach Patrick! Thanks again!
.82 on the ABP ride....big jump from the .77 the week before! 💪💥 nice!
On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:26 PM Coach Patrick <
teamenforums+d25869-s6029573@gmail.com> wrote:
> [image: Endurance Nation Community]
>
> ------------------------------
> Coach Patrick commented on Alexander Evis Official Coach Thread [TeamEN]
>
> .82 on the ABP ride....big jump from the .77 the week before! 💪💥 nice!
>
>
>
> --
> Reply to this email directly or follow the link below to check it out:
>
> https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/comment/285667#Comment_285667
> Check it out
>
>
Pain is real. But it is temporary, and you will get stronger! I hope your training partners / friends are scared!!!
~ Coach P
Hey @Coach Patrick & @matt limbert question for you as the heat rises:
You can see from my last few rides and runs that my pacing and power is way way off what I'd been able to hang onto during my mental breakdown. I attribute some of that to the fact that we have decamped NYC for a month into the Catskills so things are a LOT hillier than usual for me and I'm off my trainer really for the first time.
But my last long run and my bike the other day were for real disasters - to the point that Im not doing my long workouts this weekend simply because I dont think I can finish them.
My question is: when should I shift to HR from pace/power when the temp rises? Or should I do it at all? If I look back at my last 'successful' split run on the 29th for example, I averaged 139bpm for the first 20min, 154 for the second 40mins and then 150 for the split 30min. Should I just try to dial those in for future long runs? And how should I manage the bike? [Unfort I forgot my strap the other day, but I can tell you the problems were more in my legs than my lungs, it was 101 realfeel degrees and I let my nutrition and hydration slide - I wasn't used to being on roads, they were pretty rough, hardly ever straight or flat and never not crowded with either cars or pedestrians.]
Thanks again for all your help!
AE
@Alexander E Evis Always great to hear from you. Awesome escape plan BTW!
RE: Heat.
Yes, short answer you will need to shift your power/pace targets with the change in temperature. Heart rate and your internal gauge of perceived exertion is a good place to start.
It happens to everyone. When the temperature picks up quickly, or you dramatically change your training location to hotter or humid location you will need to adjust your targets. Over 10-14 days you will see some improvement as your body adapts with increased blood plasma (you may gain water weight), and your body adapts to sweating more. But, there are limits. Using HR and your internal gauge of perceived exertion is a good place to start. Start with those HR targets for your run and just let the pace be the pace. You body is working extra hard to cool and move you at the same time. You can keep track of your 'hot weather' power or pace in your notes. You have been doing this long enough now that you have a good sense of the appropriate effort in those conditions. Pushing beyond that increases the training stress beyond your ability to recover, hence your desire to take some time off. Your body is telling you its had enough and needs to back off a bit.
If you really want to geek out about it check out the heat pacing tool here.
Thanks @matt limbert ! Transition from trainer to road + hills + heat is certainly a challenge! I did the same ride again yesterday and it was better (but still not good)!
Thanks again!
AE
@Alexander E Evis - as much as you're suffering, it's always important to remember that training in the heat is making you stronger. It's almost 150% of the normal impact of a regular ride. It requires 150% of the recovery as well, but I think you already figured that out. 🤣
When we switch to heart rate as a guide on these hot days, the focus is on a steadily building heart rate across the entire ride. It's not so much about using heart rate for intervals but rather saying my heart rate should gradually increase from the beginning until the end of the day. I don't want anything to peek too early, and then come crashing to earth in the middle of my ride.
You can, however, use heart rate as a "" and make sure you don't go too hard. So chase the white numbers, but when your heart rate gets uncomfortable sitting there versus forcing the whites to stay where you want them. You are still experiencing adaptations without pushing the legs that 100%. Eventually you will normalize and be much better.
Patience young grasshopper!
~ Coach P
Thanks @Coach Patrick ... heat has been my nemesis since my first sprint tri nearly 10 years ago.
I'm also discovering how externally motivated I am. My race that was in May was moved to Sept. and finally cancelled the day before yesterday. It's not flattering, but its good to know yourself. Hopefully motivation will return to try to "do 2020 in 2021" by the time the Outseason rolls around.
@Alexander E Evis don't let the change and motivation get you down. We are all affected in someway shape or form. The key is re-centering yourself on a goal that seems to be a bit of a stretch but a good project to challenge yourself with.
There are tons of options your teammates have come up with so far, they can totally help you out. Or feel free to ask me as well, I can certainly come up with something Evil! 😠
Ha! If the pool at the Y opens in time I'll try the DITRi, but if they don't I'll have to think of something else. Maybe I can persuade the family to let me swim at Coney Island.
If you swim there, I want video‼️ 🤣
~ Coach P
@Alexander E Evis I got your Check-In update, and have pasted it below. This is part of our monthly process to stay connected, so thanks for filling it out!
I love the enthusiasm.... I give you a TEN! 💥 Time to transition to Run Durability...and you aren't alone. Lots of folks in the Run Chat (Group Me, under Community) will be making the move too. This is where we redirect this years fitness into next year's foundation. Super important!
My only other thought for you is if something cool comes up, and you want to do it (long run, trail run, century ride, big hill climb, etc)...get after it! You have a lot more flexibility this time of year, so we should take advantage of it.
~ Coach P