Thanks for the update. Good idea to get your testing done. The power and heart rate tests are the same protocol. Warmup, include a few accelerations. Recover, when you are ready do 5' Max effort, recover as long as you need to. So that you are completely recovered. Then 20' sustained Max effort, then after the test use your avg heart rate for the 20' to set your zones. Let me know if I can help. Go get 'em.
With St Anthonys “postponed “ I have decided to go back to the outseason plan, starting Monday March 23rd.
My original plan was to do St Anthony’s in April with a sprint warm up in March (escape from ft desoto). Then progress to a possible half IM in the fall.
Being out of the game as long as I have, I still want that progression, so Targeting Escape to Miami Olympic in beginning of October. Sprint race in Miami in late September as my new ‘warm up’.
In mean time new goal for the out season plan starting Monday is a real focus on body composition and getting closer to the 2.5 height to weight ratio body comp by end of outseason plan. Currently 2.8 so have some work to do.
Then go into short course plan again, with even more focus on intensity and pace.
Looking at end of year, if I am able to achieve above, I will focus on winter half marathon (Naples Fl half marathon January 27th). Then evaluate a half IM spring/summer.
@Bradley Cline That is a great idea to go back to the OutSeason and your goal of progression. I love that you have quickly reset and have internally focused goals that you can control and take action on like: new outseaon, body composition, as well as external goals like: the races to keep your long term focus. 👊 virtual fist bump or elbow bash! 😂 Check out out what folks are doing for hacks and tips for strength training here: https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/26528/share-your-training-tips-and-hacks-coronavirus-edition#latest
Thanks for the email commenting back on my survey submittal.
With no races on the calendar, this 5k plan has been perfect for me in a few different ways. One just having a goal at the end of the 4 weeks to drive consistency has been great. The other is the structure of the program is really perfect. Particularly with the run focus, which I need, and addition of core and Yoga.
I credit being more adventurous with Yoga to really helping tight hips, and back etc, and at 51 yrs old think this will stay a part of my routine going forward.
My goal for the 5k is to run a negative split as pointed out, and average around 9 flat. I would be happy to be able to do that and body still feeling healthy by end of the 4 wks.
With renewed confidence I can stay healthy with no calf issues, etc., I really would like to focus on getting my running pace back to where I used to be. I would love to get back to mid / low 8 min/mi pace for a race. I am a minute off that but mentally this would be a great baseline to start an actual event based Tri plan as events come back online later this year or early next.
I would be very interested in starting either a longer 12 wk 5k plan or 10k plan. 5k would be optimum as I would prefer to focus on pace and ramp up the intensity without the extra mileage for now. I see one listed in the Plans section, but the link is black and not able to be followed. Is it available somehow I am not seeing?
I could go to a 10k plan if needed. I would like to do one with similar structure to the 5k 4wk plan now, alt with other cardio, core, yoga, etc.
I would be interested in your feedback and thanks for reaching out :)
I'm stoked you are happy and seeing some progress with the Project 5k plan. Crush it next week! Post an update here and let us know how it goes. You are totally right. The biggest win out of this training block is your new relationship with yoga. I'm so glad you enjoy and want to keep it as part of your routine. It will make a big difference in the long run, give you the ability to stack lots of quality weeks together, keep that calf happy. I loaded up our Durability for Runners - it is 12 weeks, divided into 3 blocks of 4 weeks each. The long run and tempo runs progressively build and there is dedicated time for cross training or yoga. Feel free to move the workouts around if the 5k Project weekly pattern worked well for you. You can easily see the difference with the mid-week tempo run and cross trainining. I think the progression to the longer tempo runs and the long run will give you the stamina you need to sustain that 8 min pace for the 5k that you are looking for. Take a look in Final Surge and let us know what you think. Go crush it next week!
I will plan to transition to the run durability plan.
I will use my 5k to update my run pace and load into this plan for my run zones.
A question regarding the run paces. I am using the Endurance Nation calculator. I found I had to 'cheat' on the fast side for 5k time compared to my actual time, otherwise my zone 1 zone 2 seemed really slow. I think I put like an 8:45 5k and it is yielding zone 1 in the 11 min, which is ok. Dont think I will do 8:45 pace though next week. I almost cant run 11:20, it is almost too slow pace, even for warm up though. But the zone 3 and 4 seem appropriately challenging. Any advice on this?
@Bradley Cline Yeah, I would love to work on dialing in that truly easy Z1 and Z2 pace with you. The math might be a little conservative and slower than it needs to be. We really want that Z1 and Z2 to be easy and for some folks they really get hung up on running to fast on the easy days and grade every run against a "good" number. I completely understand that a 11:20, may be too slow and we need to take another look at that. Let's knock out this 5k, look at the new zones, and plan for a follow-up chat to dial in those Z1 paces.
Ok so did the 5k. Goal was 9 min flat avg. ended up 9:01 so happy with that. More than anything glad I was able to run a negative split and avg 8:45 mile 3. So my body is still capable of sub 9! :)
As I said, when i entered run paces prior i rigged it a little as easier zones seemed too easy. Think I put in somewhere around an 8:45 5k as pace reference on Endurance Nation Run Pace calculator. I have now updated with actual time. First pace set below is based on false 8:45 pace as reference and second set is calculation with actual 5k time:
I looked at Run Durability Plan and it looks perfect. My goal is to get back to mid to low 8 min mile during sprint/oly races. I realize that may take some progression and willing to work towards that. But as previously stated when I look at Zone 1 I am not sure i could even run a 11:53 pace! :)
When I did my initial warm up for the 5k where I really was just about moving and getting blood flowing (before speeding up to 9:30 pace and throwing some strides in etc) I was at 11:00 min pace just barely jogging.
Even when i was doing 6 mi 'long run' on Out season I was around 10:30 avg, 10:45 at worst, never above 11:00. Really willing to follow the plan and take the time needed to progress just want to see if you think I should ever be running 11:53. If so I am ok to try it. Thanks!
Great to hear from you! Great work with the 5K and killer last mile. That 8:45 is result of some excellent fitness and solid race pacing & execution. I got a slightly different result when I ran the zone calculator.
Threshold Pace: 9:00 min/mi = 27:56 for 5k
Zone 1 / LRP / Easy 11:53 min/mi - 11:43 min/mi
TRP / Run Durability 11:06 min/mi - 10:56 min/mi
Zone 2 / MP / Steady 10:19 min/mi - 10:09 min/mi
Zone 3 / HMP / ModHard 10:02 min/mi - 9:52 min/mi
Zone 4 / TP / Hard 9:38 min/mi - 9:28 min/mi
Zone 5 / IP / Very Hard9:12 min/mi-9:02 min/mi
These zones really line up with your practical experience. Your notes on warm up and long run match up well with the TRP and maybe your long run might be bit faster not too far off. We spend a bulk of our time in that Run Durability zone which is that "easy but I'm still running" zone. We encourage you to bias to the easy end of the range during those aerobic runs, where our focus is primarily durability. Give it a try for 2-3 weeks and lets check back in. I would be interested in how you feel vs. your past experience. Maybe we will need to make some tweaks but there are some other metabolic adapations we also get (using fat for primarily energy production vs. carbohydrate) as well as the durability benefits.
@Bradley Cline - finish to what @matt limbert said, our goal with those easy runs are to have you run super easy. I want you to still keep your running form in turnover, but we're looking to do is essentially spend a lot of time on your feet. Some of your teammates will simply take the slower miles to the trails where they can do a fair amount of hiking as well. All of that time on your feet matters, so maybe think a little bit outside the box when it comes to the slower paces.
Thanks @Coach Patrick. I reviewed the Run Durability overview, plus watched program webinar so the intent makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to building strong base with some pace improvements during this program, plus a re-commitment to body comp (After the initial Quarantine set back) Thanks!
FYI minor hip flexor strain on run the other night.....I have access to an excellent PT and looks ok. So if you see my runs drop off for a few weeks or shorter distance you know why. But think it should only be a few weeks. I will be cautious. and of course instituting more of the yoga stretches targeting that area.
@matt limbert Yes biking is definitely an option. I have spun several times successfully and even did an easy run today. Will continue to alternate with a lot of focused stretching in between. Will report back at the end of the week 👍🏻
So far i have gotten back to alternating run and bike days. Cautiously optimistic. Went ahead and adjusted my run durability dates to start over next week. If no other issues I just plan to restart that and go from there. If I can avoid injury and some fall races come back (Olys, etc) then may talk to you about swapping out phase three with beginning of race training plan.
@Bradley Cline Thanks for the update. We have Balance Durability program that has the alternating bike and run days. Since you are starting over next week do you want me to load that plan into Final Surge for you. This is what it looks like:
@matt limbert I plan to stay with run focus (run durability). I was just alternating the two to test out the hip flexors. so far so good so back to plan starting tomorrow. If I start having any issues i will consider going to balance plan. thanks!
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.
>> Last updated by Coach on 11/24/2020
On 11/23/2020 Load the Durability Balanced Plan 2 (8 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 12/20/2020 27 [ 4 weeks ]
On 12/21/2020 Load the Durability for Triathletes 3 (7 months out) -- 4 weeks to end on 1/17/2021 27 [ 4 weeks ]
On 1/4/2021 Load the OutSeason for Cyclists Plan (14wks) to end on 4/11/2021 97 [ 14 weeks ]
On 3/15/2021 Load the Gravel Plan to end on 5/16/2021 62 [ 9 weeks ]
On 5/17/2021 Load the Post Half Iron Transition Plan All Levels (2wks) to end on 5/30/2021 13 [ 2 weeks ]
On 5/31/2021 Load the Run Focus Block to end on 7/11/2021 41 [ 6 weeks ]
On 7/12/2021 Load the Short Course (20wks) to end on 10/3/2021 83 [ 12 weeks ]
On 10/4/2021 Load the Post Half Iron Transition Plan All Levels (2wks) to end on 10/17/2021 13 [ 2 weeks ]
Your Notes
Tell Us Your Background / Racing History: Have done numerous Sprint/Oly, 4 Half Ironman, 3 Full Ironman (IMWI, IMCD, IMFL). Last full 2010. Mostly short distance since then. 51 years old.
What is Your Focus Level for this Season? Perform My Best at a Big Race
Give Us One Sentence That Defines Your Successful Season: Complete BWR Asheville while still having my wits about me :)
What is Your Biggest Limiter to Success? Simulation of race day due to living in elevation challenged FL. Some gravel routes, mostly flat, class 1/2, etc. Rollers up in central, norther FL I could do on weekends (I do use Zwift also)
Awesome! Thanks Coach P! excited to start getting more formal in my training and looking forward to putting some focus on the bike and developing my gravel skills for BWR!
Comments
@Bradley Cline
Thanks for the update. Good idea to get your testing done. The power and heart rate tests are the same protocol. Warmup, include a few accelerations. Recover, when you are ready do 5' Max effort, recover as long as you need to. So that you are completely recovered. Then 20' sustained Max effort, then after the test use your avg heart rate for the 20' to set your zones. Let me know if I can help. Go get 'em.
With St Anthonys “postponed “ I have decided to go back to the outseason plan, starting Monday March 23rd.
My original plan was to do St Anthony’s in April with a sprint warm up in March (escape from ft desoto). Then progress to a possible half IM in the fall.
Being out of the game as long as I have, I still want that progression, so Targeting Escape to Miami Olympic in beginning of October. Sprint race in Miami in late September as my new ‘warm up’.
In mean time new goal for the out season plan starting Monday is a real focus on body composition and getting closer to the 2.5 height to weight ratio body comp by end of outseason plan. Currently 2.8 so have some work to do.
Then go into short course plan again, with even more focus on intensity and pace.
Looking at end of year, if I am able to achieve above, I will focus on winter half marathon (Naples Fl half marathon January 27th). Then evaluate a half IM spring/summer.
@Bradley Cline That is a great idea to go back to the OutSeason and your goal of progression. I love that you have quickly reset and have internally focused goals that you can control and take action on like: new outseaon, body composition, as well as external goals like: the races to keep your long term focus. 👊 virtual fist bump or elbow bash! 😂 Check out out what folks are doing for hacks and tips for strength training here: https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/26528/share-your-training-tips-and-hacks-coronavirus-edition#latest
Use this link to get to all the forums:
Hey Matt
Thanks for the email commenting back on my survey submittal.
With no races on the calendar, this 5k plan has been perfect for me in a few different ways. One just having a goal at the end of the 4 weeks to drive consistency has been great. The other is the structure of the program is really perfect. Particularly with the run focus, which I need, and addition of core and Yoga.
I credit being more adventurous with Yoga to really helping tight hips, and back etc, and at 51 yrs old think this will stay a part of my routine going forward.
My goal for the 5k is to run a negative split as pointed out, and average around 9 flat. I would be happy to be able to do that and body still feeling healthy by end of the 4 wks.
With renewed confidence I can stay healthy with no calf issues, etc., I really would like to focus on getting my running pace back to where I used to be. I would love to get back to mid / low 8 min/mi pace for a race. I am a minute off that but mentally this would be a great baseline to start an actual event based Tri plan as events come back online later this year or early next.
I would be very interested in starting either a longer 12 wk 5k plan or 10k plan. 5k would be optimum as I would prefer to focus on pace and ramp up the intensity without the extra mileage for now. I see one listed in the Plans section, but the link is black and not able to be followed. Is it available somehow I am not seeing?
I could go to a 10k plan if needed. I would like to do one with similar structure to the 5k 4wk plan now, alt with other cardio, core, yoga, etc.
I would be interested in your feedback and thanks for reaching out :)
@Bradley Cline
I'm stoked you are happy and seeing some progress with the Project 5k plan. Crush it next week! Post an update here and let us know how it goes. You are totally right. The biggest win out of this training block is your new relationship with yoga. I'm so glad you enjoy and want to keep it as part of your routine. It will make a big difference in the long run, give you the ability to stack lots of quality weeks together, keep that calf happy. I loaded up our Durability for Runners - it is 12 weeks, divided into 3 blocks of 4 weeks each. The long run and tempo runs progressively build and there is dedicated time for cross training or yoga. Feel free to move the workouts around if the 5k Project weekly pattern worked well for you. You can easily see the difference with the mid-week tempo run and cross trainining. I think the progression to the longer tempo runs and the long run will give you the stamina you need to sustain that 8 min pace for the 5k that you are looking for. Take a look in Final Surge and let us know what you think. Go crush it next week!
Thanks Matt, it looks good!
I will plan to transition to the run durability plan.
I will use my 5k to update my run pace and load into this plan for my run zones.
A question regarding the run paces. I am using the Endurance Nation calculator. I found I had to 'cheat' on the fast side for 5k time compared to my actual time, otherwise my zone 1 zone 2 seemed really slow. I think I put like an 8:45 5k and it is yielding zone 1 in the 11 min, which is ok. Dont think I will do 8:45 pace though next week. I almost cant run 11:20, it is almost too slow pace, even for warm up though. But the zone 3 and 4 seem appropriately challenging. Any advice on this?
Thanks!
@Bradley Cline Yeah, I would love to work on dialing in that truly easy Z1 and Z2 pace with you. The math might be a little conservative and slower than it needs to be. We really want that Z1 and Z2 to be easy and for some folks they really get hung up on running to fast on the easy days and grade every run against a "good" number. I completely understand that a 11:20, may be too slow and we need to take another look at that. Let's knock out this 5k, look at the new zones, and plan for a follow-up chat to dial in those Z1 paces.
Perfect! Thanks Matt.
Ok so did the 5k. Goal was 9 min flat avg. ended up 9:01 so happy with that. More than anything glad I was able to run a negative split and avg 8:45 mile 3. So my body is still capable of sub 9! :)
As I said, when i entered run paces prior i rigged it a little as easier zones seemed too easy. Think I put in somewhere around an 8:45 5k as pace reference on Endurance Nation Run Pace calculator. I have now updated with actual time. First pace set below is based on false 8:45 pace as reference and second set is calculation with actual 5k time:
I looked at Run Durability Plan and it looks perfect. My goal is to get back to mid to low 8 min mile during sprint/oly races. I realize that may take some progression and willing to work towards that. But as previously stated when I look at Zone 1 I am not sure i could even run a 11:53 pace! :)
When I did my initial warm up for the 5k where I really was just about moving and getting blood flowing (before speeding up to 9:30 pace and throwing some strides in etc) I was at 11:00 min pace just barely jogging.
Even when i was doing 6 mi 'long run' on Out season I was around 10:30 avg, 10:45 at worst, never above 11:00. Really willing to follow the plan and take the time needed to progress just want to see if you think I should ever be running 11:53. If so I am ok to try it. Thanks!
@Bradley Cline
Great to hear from you! Great work with the 5K and killer last mile. That 8:45 is result of some excellent fitness and solid race pacing & execution. I got a slightly different result when I ran the zone calculator.
Threshold Pace: 9:00 min/mi = 27:56 for 5k
Zone 1 / LRP / Easy 11:53 min/mi - 11:43 min/mi
TRP / Run Durability 11:06 min/mi - 10:56 min/mi
Zone 2 / MP / Steady 10:19 min/mi - 10:09 min/mi
Zone 3 / HMP / ModHard 10:02 min/mi - 9:52 min/mi
Zone 4 / TP / Hard 9:38 min/mi - 9:28 min/mi
Zone 5 / IP / Very Hard9:12 min/mi-9:02 min/mi
These zones really line up with your practical experience. Your notes on warm up and long run match up well with the TRP and maybe your long run might be bit faster not too far off. We spend a bulk of our time in that Run Durability zone which is that "easy but I'm still running" zone. We encourage you to bias to the easy end of the range during those aerobic runs, where our focus is primarily durability. Give it a try for 2-3 weeks and lets check back in. I would be interested in how you feel vs. your past experience. Maybe we will need to make some tweaks but there are some other metabolic adapations we also get (using fat for primarily energy production vs. carbohydrate) as well as the durability benefits.
Let us know what you think.
Sounds good Matt. I will give it a go for a few weeks.
@Bradley Cline - finish to what @matt limbert said, our goal with those easy runs are to have you run super easy. I want you to still keep your running form in turnover, but we're looking to do is essentially spend a lot of time on your feet. Some of your teammates will simply take the slower miles to the trails where they can do a fair amount of hiking as well. All of that time on your feet matters, so maybe think a little bit outside the box when it comes to the slower paces.
~ Coach P
Thanks @Coach Patrick. I reviewed the Run Durability overview, plus watched program webinar so the intent makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to building strong base with some pace improvements during this program, plus a re-commitment to body comp (After the initial Quarantine set back) Thanks!
FYI minor hip flexor strain on run the other night.....I have access to an excellent PT and looks ok. So if you see my runs drop off for a few weeks or shorter distance you know why. But think it should only be a few weeks. I will be cautious. and of course instituting more of the yoga stretches targeting that area.
@Bradley Cline Thanks for the note. How about biking? Is that an option? Check in and let us know how it's going next week.
@matt limbert Yes biking is definitely an option. I have spun several times successfully and even did an easy run today. Will continue to alternate with a lot of focused stretching in between. Will report back at the end of the week 👍🏻
👊
So far i have gotten back to alternating run and bike days. Cautiously optimistic. Went ahead and adjusted my run durability dates to start over next week. If no other issues I just plan to restart that and go from there. If I can avoid injury and some fall races come back (Olys, etc) then may talk to you about swapping out phase three with beginning of race training plan.
@Bradley Cline Thanks for the update. We have Balance Durability program that has the alternating bike and run days. Since you are starting over next week do you want me to load that plan into Final Surge for you. This is what it looks like:
Let me know what you think and we'll set it up.
BTW. (You can do it yourself if you like, just delete the Durability for Runners Phase 1 and replace it with Balanced Durability Phase 1.)
@matt limbert I plan to stay with run focus (run durability). I was just alternating the two to test out the hip flexors. so far so good so back to plan starting tomorrow. If I start having any issues i will consider going to balance plan. thanks!
@Bradley Cline 👍️
Nice work you two!!
~ Coach P
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Your Races
Your Top Event / Race for the Season is:
Your Second Event / Race for the Season is:
Your Third Event / Race for the Season is:
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.
>> Last updated by Coach on 11/24/2020
Your Notes
Tell Us Your Background / Racing History: Have done numerous Sprint/Oly, 4 Half Ironman, 3 Full Ironman (IMWI, IMCD, IMFL). Last full 2010. Mostly short distance since then. 51 years old.
What is Your Focus Level for this Season? Perform My Best at a Big Race
Give Us One Sentence That Defines Your Successful Season: Complete BWR Asheville while still having my wits about me :)
What is Your Biggest Limiter to Success? Simulation of race day due to living in elevation challenged FL. Some gravel routes, mostly flat, class 1/2, etc. Rollers up in central, norther FL I could do on weekends (I do use Zwift also)
Anything Else We Should Know? Nope :)
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
Awesome! Thanks Coach P! excited to start getting more formal in my training and looking forward to putting some focus on the bike and developing my gravel skills for BWR!
😎