1. I am training in southern California and enjoy the opportunity to ride outside nearly every day of the year. I use to do almost weekly "conversational pace" rides between 40-70 miles with up to 6000 feet of climbing with serious roadies in east San Diego County. These are fast enough that I don't do much talking (not hammerfests but these guys can ride) - but these rides run counter to the specific OS daily objectives. I know that in terms of ROI fast is better than far but it is reasonable to occasional substitute an OS training day for a good ride?
You can do it and have fun for sure. I would do tues/thurs as OS only, stoopid hard/short sessions. Sat you can go longer, just don't try to be off the front...push hard for the prescribed time then ride cheesy, have fun, etc.
2. Second I am powerless - or rather powertapless. I have expressed some interest in the TOC camp with Rich but am wondering whether it would be better drop the TOC tuition on becoming wired power wise. I am planning to do Cal 70.3 and possibly the full distance Vineman this summer, then Afghanistan and then I may just become a full time recreational cyclist. Powertap or no Powertap? Your thoughts?
If you are going to become a rec cyclist in like 7 months, a PT investment isn't worth it, TOC will be memories for a lifetime. By the time you learn the PT this year you'll be packing your bags for Central Asia. If you plan on staying geeked out and riding hard (not easy to do in Afghanistan), then get a PT.
3. In that vein - when I do the 30/30s I find it difficult until the second or third interval of the second or third set to hit HRs above my LTHR. The effort is there but I find the HR hard to hit. I find this somewhat distressing because I feel my only 40' TT could have been a harder effort and I am not sure that my LTHR was adequately represented by the test. ( I joined the October OS at week 9 after doing only 3 weeks of a purchased HIM plan). Effort good enough or should I work harder to get my HR up?
So hard to say with HR vs Power. I would work harder, looking at speed (on trainer or set area) so you can guage how "hard" you are going...then replicate that. So if 30" gets you .2 miles, can you do .21? .22? and still recover? Or if it means 23mph, can you do 23.2?
4. Lastly, any guidelines on what sort of improvement I could hope to see in my vdot? I am a big guy (200 pounds and 6'2") and not a great runner ( and I am not fat) I started triathlon last year at this time and based on sprints and intl distance I am a vdot of 41 - but had HIM run times of over 2 hours at Oceanside and MagicMountainMan in Santa Clarita last year. I have been exceeding Daniel's benchmarks for that vdot for all of the intervals but wonder what level of improvement I could see in my vdot?
Can big guys run fast?
I was 6' 2" and 205, and ran a 1:27 half. I have since lost almost 30 lbs and, surprise, am way faster. I am 6'2" and considered myself kinda chunky at 188 (but still ran sub-3 marathon!)...maybe you have a lot more muscle than me? Your best bet will be to get lean, as those returns are instant and transfer to cycling as well. Other than that, simply running w/ pace helps most noobs get faster, additional gains are a function of your running ability/technique, etc.
My A race is July 25 - IM USA. I need suggestions for the timing and types of races during the build-up.
Just lost my post. Arg. Avoid a race within last 8 weeks, so try for April/May for HIM. Join us in LP for the Placid Rally to get training on the course. Plan at least one other big weekend or big week of cycling fitness...somewhere in the march/apr/may timeframe, info on that is in the wiki. Sketch out what you think and post here for feedback!
Posted By Christopher Ratchford on 23 Dec 2009 12:51 PM
So......if I were to race Eagleman 70.3 as B race (already paid for) and Rhode Island 70.3 as A race, which HIM would you dump??
Kinetic HIM in May or Patriot HIM in September considering AAA race is IMFL.? Haven't registered for either.
Thank you,
Chris
I would plan on two seasons. Eagleman to RI as part one, so train for a HIM for first half of 2010. Then break through August 1. Train up for Patriot as late season event...will be nice to have peeps to connect with, then go solo through IMFL.
First, Merry Christmas to both of you! Hope you are having a GREAT holiday season.
I am slowly coming out from under my rock. Life got in the way this month and I haven't done any OS or virtually any training since the first week of December. From a recovery perspective it has been a great break both physically and mentally. But I am behind the 8 ball a bit now.
My Question: I am doing IM SG on 5/1/10 and read the Wiki about transitioning out of OS into the IM Plan. However, I am really not in the November OS anymore and don't want to put pressure on myself to ramp up fast. So I am thinking of easing back in during January doing the first month of the Int. OS Plan (I started Nov. OS with Adv. Plan) then move into IM Plan on February 1. That would give me 4.5 weeks of OS and then 14 weeks of IM Plan (12 weeks training and 2 weeks of taper).
Does this sound reasonable? Or do you have other ideas/thoughts for me? Or maybe I missed an IMSG specific post that is out there?
This OS has been hit & miss, mostly miss. I'm in the Nov OS and between some intense travel for work, a reoccurring leg issue and getting sick, I have only really had one good week of workouts which was week one. Planned time was 5:10 and I did 5 hours. Since then, my weekly workout time has been 1:50,1:52,1:45, 2:12, 0:49 (sick), and this week 2:59 (still have to get out and do the run today). Most of the missed workouts have been run workouts because of my leg. I think going forward I'll be able to workout consistently.
I didn't test this week since I figured I haven't improved much if any with so many missed workouts (have missed 16 run workouts and I am still pushing hard to complete the intervals on the bike).
Question: should I reset and join the January OS or should I jump into week 9 of the NOS and call it good? my A race is a HIM 7/17.
So I'm signed up for IMWI, which outseason plan are the Wisconsin EN'ers using? I started the November plan prior to registering for Wisconsin. Should I change outseason plans?
By definition, there will never be more than one "BEST" of anything... In your recent "Power Clinic" e-mail you stated,
"Participants will receive: A six week schedule of cycling workouts. You will simply replace the bikes in your current OS training plan with these workouts."
My question is, "If these workouts are better than what we are doing in the Out season workouts, shouldn't we all be switching?" I understand giving certain participants preferential treatment if some people pay for more full-time coaching, but shouldn't we all be attempting the same (Best) workouts? cb
Can you give me some feedback about my seat position- i m riding a orbea ordu and i have those 2 seatposts with the different angles...i have been using the TT angle due to my history of bike racing.... i tried to change over last year- abiet in like late April, and had the other tri angle" seat fit...but i really felt like a lost power and was slower in that position. Do i need to change over to the tri angle seat now or can i just keep the TT angle seat post set up...and what are the benefits if i do, and do you have some guidelines for the bike fit on the tri bike?
By definition, there will never be more than one "BEST" of anything... In your recent "Power Clinic" e-mail you stated,
"Participants will receive: A six week schedule of cycling workouts. You will simply replace the bikes in your current OS training plan with these workouts."
My question is, "If these workouts are better than what we are doing in the Out season workouts, shouldn't we all be switching?" I understand giving certain participants preferential treatment if some people pay for more full-time coaching, but shouldn't we all be attempting the same (Best) workouts? cb
Carl, the Power Clinic is a significantly different animal than "just" adding a suite of workouts to an existing plan. Please read this thread for more information and let's carry on this conversation over there, not in this thread here. Thanks!
Can you give me some feedback about my seat position- i m riding a orbea ordu and i have those 2 seatposts with the different angles...i have been using the TT angle due to my history of bike racing.... i tried to change over last year- abiet in like late April, and had the other tri angle" seat fit...but i really felt like a lost power and was slower in that position. Do i need to change over to the tri angle seat now or can i just keep the TT angle seat post set up...and what are the benefits if i do, and do you have some guidelines for the bike fit on the tri bike?
Marie,
Please go to the Free Resources page later today (not working now) and download our Bike Fit eBook. Please also start another thread with bike fit questions, as this one is for macro-level training plan questions. Thanks!
@John, I think that's a good plan, as we intend to pull most of the IMSG peeps out of the OS near the end of Feb. But it looks like your lay-off means you need a bit more of the IM plan than they do.
This OS has been hit & miss, mostly miss. I'm in the Nov OS and between some intense travel for work, a reoccurring leg issue and getting sick, I have only really had one good week of workouts which was week one. Planned time was 5:10 and I did 5 hours. Since then, my weekly workout time has been 1:50,1:52,1:45, 2:12, 0:49 (sick), and this week 2:59 (still have to get out and do the run today). Most of the missed workouts have been run workouts because of my leg. I think going forward I'll be able to workout consistently.
I didn't test this week since I figured I haven't improved much if any with so many missed workouts (have missed 16 run workouts and I am still pushing hard to complete the intervals on the bike).
Question: should I reset and join the January OS or should I jump into week 9 of the NOS and call it good? my A race is a HIM 7/17.
thanks.
Chris, lets reset with you doing the JanOS. I've made that switch for you by moving your training plan appropriately. If I screwed it up, please use the "Request Training Plan Change" dealio in your dashboard to communicate that to us. Thanks!
@Matt, just keep doing what you're doing. We're working on a tool to collect everyone's race schedules. Then, based on those submissions, we'll go into everyone training plans and make adjustments if they are needed.
First time doing the OS and loving it. Struggle with my running (vdot 44-sth, PR 1/2 mara 1:40) and wanting to get stronger/faster
Goals = Florida 70.3, 5/16/10, to get spot for IMLP, 7/25/10
However, I would love to add a full marathon in DC 3/20/10 along with 1/2 marathons nearly every month for hard tempo run and sufferfest
Any problems, suggestions on modifying OS to accomplish marathon in DC? I was thinking about keeping my long runs quality then just tacking on distance after quality z3 work in z2, thoughts?
My question is whether to pick back up with the trng plan on 10 Jan, or start back with week 8 (I haven't done my second round of testing yet to see where I stand after phase 1) since I'm on vacation through 9 Jan and I'm not able to do the skef bike w/o's. I missed 4 days of training (23-26 Dec), but am doing 1-hour sanity runs daily since. Up until 23 Dec I had only missed one sked workout (bike intervals) and that was due to me doing a 6-hour trail ride in the mountains on my mtn bike w/ a friend. Not exactly a picnic!
Your recommendation would be much appreciated. So, do I do my round 2 of testing the wk of 11 Jan and just continue on picking up the sked thereafter, or after testing the week of 11 Jan start back (backup) where I left off (starting w/ week 9)? (Typing on this iPhone is a challenge in itself!)
Happy Holidays from Malaga,Spain where it's been raining for a week. Warm, but wet.
My question is whether to pick back up with the trng plan on 10 Jan, or start back with week 8 (I haven't done my second round of testing yet to see where I stand after phase 1) since I'm on vacation through 9 Jan and I'm not able to do the skef bike w/o's. I missed 4 days of training (23-26 Dec), but am doing 1-hour sanity runs daily since. Up until 23 Dec I had only missed one sked workout (bike intervals) and that was due to me doing a 6-hour trail ride in the mountains on my mtn bike w/ a friend. Not exactly a picnic!
Your recommendation would be much appreciated. So, do I do my round 2 of testing the wk of 11 Jan and just continue on picking up the sked thereafter, or after testing the week of 11 Jan start back (backup) where I left off (starting w/ week 9)? (Typing on this iPhone is a challenge in itself!)
Happy Holidays from Malaga,Spain where it's been raining for a week. Warm, but wet.
Jay, I think you should just continue to enjoy your vacation and hit us up again about what to do when you get back. Seriously, you're on vacaction, Jan 9 will get here when it gets here, we can't do anything about it now other than to tell you what to do, which you can't do anyway until you get back from vacation on Jan 9 .
Gracias, Rich. I hope you're enjoying some quality family time. Thanks RnP & Co. for providing such a top quality triathlon training portal. EN is second to none. A true leader in the field of triatlon training. Congratulations on your success and may you enjoy a happy, healthy and prosperous 2010! Happy New Year! Jay
RnP - I want to make sure I'm on track with the following game plan:
A few weeks ago I was diagnosed with a stress reaction to a pelvic bone (explains the progressively growing groin pain I've had for over a year). Doc says 8 weeks of no running which puts me at Feb 1 to lace up again. Biking and swimming cause no pain so I'm clear to do those activities and will be hitting all the OS bike workouts as planned. Assuming I'm all healed up and running with no pain at the end of this break could you please give your comments/suggestions to the following timeline:
Jan 4, 2010: Start OS - scheduled bike sessions only (from last year's OS experience I know it probably wouldn't be necessary or wise to add any more bike work, right?); substitute core strengthening and stretching for the run sessions; swim 1x-2x/week; start deep water running and elliptical late Jan
Feb 1: Take 1st steps with the run shoes - slowly ramp up mileage for about 6 weeks all at Easy pace
mid- to late March: Should be good to start running with intensity again - should I pick up run workouts at this point of the OS or go back to OS week 1 run workouts?
May: finish OS; race a "B" 1/2 mary
June: Start IM plan; race a "B" 1/2 IM
June-Sept: IM plan for IMWI
With this 8 week break from running ending Feb 1 (if all goes well) would you guys approach the entry back to the EN run workouts any differently? Would you make any modifications to the 1st 4-6 weeks of the OS given the extra time I will have by not running?
Happy New Year! Just a quick question - if I change my 2010 race schedule (based on your feedback when I joined at the beginning of the month) do you want to know about it (and if so, is that something to post in this thread)? Or is that something to cut out on my own and not worry about anymore?
I've been successfully butchering my OS plan on my own. But, now I need help
I started with the Nov OS 2 weeks late, due to a hamstring pull. No prob.
But, now I've been in Florida for the holidays with no bike. I "should" start Week 8 today, but didn't think it smart to test after almost 2 weeks of no biking. So, I was just going to start Week 7. Seems okay. But, now I'll complicate it even more.
This Friday, I'm going to the doc for the Big Snip. (I was actually scheduled to do it LAST January, but canceled it for the Power Clinic at FastSplits ) Doctor's orders: no hard, lower-body exercise for two weeks (especially cycling!) So that pretty much means starting again on Monday, Jan 25th.
Think I should start at Week 7 again? So, to recap, I'd do Week 7 this week (after my holiday break), and again starting Week 7 on Monday, Jan 25. I think this would actually put me 1-week behind the December OS.
RnP: I am in the NOV OS group and have IMWI as my 2010 goal, well, ok, I'd like to qualify at IMWI, that's my REAL goal and I'm relying on you all to get me there . Seriously, though, when/how do we set that training plan up? I had planned to do an HIM in June as warm-up, do I undertand it correctly that that's what we work hard on in spring and then transition to IM training after the HIM? I'm a little confused on the A race vs B race stuff and just want to make sure that I'm communicating properly with you so that you can help me. That statement was a little circuitous and too Tom Cruise-ish, I realize, but humor me, I just finished the run challenge and I'm beat!!
I need to build in my long run within the OS plan. Any suggestions about what workouts to change or eliminate?
Thanks. Happy New Year!!
Gina
Gina,
Your post above said HIM, not half mary, so, yes, we'll move the HIM into your account at the appropriate time.
Many folks are in the same boat as you re adapting the OS plan to fit a half marathon. I'll write a wiki post for everyone and tri to get it in the forum and up in the wiki tomorrow.
Comments
Just lost my post. Arg. Avoid a race within last 8 weeks, so try for April/May for HIM. Join us in LP for the Placid Rally to get training on the course. Plan at least one other big weekend or big week of cycling fitness...somewhere in the march/apr/may timeframe, info on that is in the wiki. Sketch out what you think and post here for feedback!
P
I would plan on two seasons. Eagleman to RI as part one, so train for a HIM for first half of 2010. Then break through August 1. Train up for Patriot as late season event...will be nice to have peeps to connect with, then go solo through IMFL.
P
Hi Guys:
First, Merry Christmas to both of you! Hope you are having a GREAT holiday season.
I am slowly coming out from under my rock. Life got in the way this month and I haven't done any OS or virtually any training since the first week of December. From a recovery perspective it has been a great break both physically and mentally. But I am behind the 8 ball a bit now.
My Question: I am doing IM SG on 5/1/10 and read the Wiki about transitioning out of OS into the IM Plan. However, I am really not in the November OS anymore and don't want to put pressure on myself to ramp up fast. So I am thinking of easing back in during January doing the first month of the Int. OS Plan (I started Nov. OS with Adv. Plan) then move into IM Plan on February 1. That would give me 4.5 weeks of OS and then 14 weeks of IM Plan (12 weeks training and 2 weeks of taper).
Does this sound reasonable? Or do you have other ideas/thoughts for me? Or maybe I missed an IMSG specific post that is out there?
Thanks.
John
Patrick,
Love it...will use the time 'off' between to two 2010 season to plan a family vacation sans bike gear!
Off to run to put the hurting on Mike in the holiday run challenge.
Chris
This OS has been hit & miss, mostly miss. I'm in the Nov OS and between some intense travel for work, a reoccurring leg issue and getting sick, I have only really had one good week of workouts which was week one. Planned time was 5:10 and I did 5 hours. Since then, my weekly workout time has been 1:50,1:52,1:45, 2:12, 0:49 (sick), and this week 2:59 (still have to get out and do the run today). Most of the missed workouts have been run workouts because of my leg. I think going forward I'll be able to workout consistently.
I didn't test this week since I figured I haven't improved much if any with so many missed workouts (have missed 16 run workouts and I am still pushing hard to complete the intervals on the bike).
Question: should I reset and join the January OS or should I jump into week 9 of the NOS and call it good? my A race is a HIM 7/17.
thanks.
Thanks
Matt
By definition, there will never be more than one "BEST" of anything... In your recent "Power Clinic" e-mail you stated,
"Participants will receive: A six week schedule of cycling workouts. You will simply replace the bikes in your current OS training plan with these workouts."
My question is, "If these workouts are better than what we are doing in the Out season workouts, shouldn't we all be switching?" I understand giving certain participants preferential treatment if some people pay for more full-time coaching, but shouldn't we all be attempting the same (Best) workouts? cb
Can you give me some feedback about my seat position- i m riding a orbea ordu and i have those 2 seatposts with the different angles...i have been using the TT angle due to my history of bike racing.... i tried to change over last year- abiet in like late April, and had the other tri angle" seat fit...but i really felt like a lost power and was slower in that position. Do i need to change over to the tri angle seat now or can i just keep the TT angle seat post set up...and what are the benefits if i do, and do you have some guidelines for the bike fit on the tri bike?
Carl, the Power Clinic is a significantly different animal than "just" adding a suite of workouts to an existing plan. Please read this thread for more information and let's carry on this conversation over there, not in this thread here. Thanks!
http://endurancenation.us.dnnmax.com/Community/Forums/tabid/101/aff/26/aft/440/afv/topic/afpgj/4/Default.aspx#7797
Marie,
Please go to the Free Resources page later today (not working now) and download our Bike Fit eBook. Please also start another thread with bike fit questions, as this one is for macro-level training plan questions. Thanks!
@John, I think that's a good plan, as we intend to pull most of the IMSG peeps out of the OS near the end of Feb. But it looks like your lay-off means you need a bit more of the IM plan than they do.
Chris, lets reset with you doing the JanOS. I've made that switch for you by moving your training plan appropriately. If I screwed it up, please use the "Request Training Plan Change" dealio in your dashboard to communicate that to us. Thanks!
@Matt, just keep doing what you're doing. We're working on a tool to collect everyone's race schedules. Then, based on those submissions, we'll go into everyone training plans and make adjustments if they are needed.
I curious to hear about the answer to Rich's question...
Sorry, I don't follow you?
First time doing the OS and loving it. Struggle with my running (vdot 44-sth, PR 1/2 mara 1:40) and wanting to get stronger/faster
Goals = Florida 70.3, 5/16/10, to get spot for IMLP, 7/25/10
However, I would love to add a full marathon in DC 3/20/10 along with 1/2 marathons nearly every month for hard tempo run and sufferfest
Any problems, suggestions on modifying OS to accomplish marathon in DC? I was thinking about keeping my long runs quality then just tacking on distance after quality z3 work in z2, thoughts?
jeffreyb
Jeff,
Please read/watch these videos: http://www.endurancenation.us/blog/2009/09/10/videos-why-a-marathon-in-the-off-season-isnt-the-answer/
And read this post: http://www.endurancenation.us/en_forums/showthread.php?t=4676
We highly, highly recommend you do not do that marathon.
Your recommendation would be much appreciated. So, do I do my round 2 of testing the wk of 11 Jan and just continue on picking up the sked thereafter, or after testing the week of 11 Jan start back (backup) where I left off (starting w/ week 9)? (Typing on this iPhone is a challenge in itself!)
Happy Holidays from Malaga,Spain where it's been raining for a week. Warm, but wet.
- Starting Jan OS
- Running 1/2 mary 3/21
- HIM 5/8
- IMWI
Will my OS plan be adjusted for the HIM @ an appropriate time? Thanks
Yes
Jay, I think you should just continue to enjoy your vacation and hit us up again about what to do when you get back. Seriously, you're on vacaction, Jan 9 will get here when it gets here, we can't do anything about it now other than to tell you what to do, which you can't do anyway until you get back from vacation on Jan 9
Cya on the 9th
I hope you're enjoying some quality family time.
Thanks RnP & Co. for providing such a top quality triathlon training portal. EN is second to none. A true leader in the field of triatlon training. Congratulations on your success and may you enjoy a happy, healthy and prosperous 2010!
Happy New Year!
Jay
RnP - I want to make sure I'm on track with the following game plan:
A few weeks ago I was diagnosed with a stress reaction to a pelvic bone (explains the progressively growing groin pain I've had for over a year). Doc says 8 weeks of no running which puts me at Feb 1 to lace up again. Biking and swimming cause no pain so I'm clear to do those activities and will be hitting all the OS bike workouts as planned. Assuming I'm all healed up and running with no pain at the end of this break could you please give your comments/suggestions to the following timeline:
Jan 4, 2010: Start OS - scheduled bike sessions only (from last year's OS experience I know it probably wouldn't be necessary or wise to add any more bike work, right?); substitute core strengthening and stretching for the run sessions; swim 1x-2x/week; start deep water running and elliptical late Jan
Feb 1: Take 1st steps with the run shoes - slowly ramp up mileage for about 6 weeks all at Easy pace
mid- to late March: Should be good to start running with intensity again - should I pick up run workouts at this point of the OS or go back to OS week 1 run workouts?
May: finish OS; race a "B" 1/2 mary
June: Start IM plan; race a "B" 1/2 IM
June-Sept: IM plan for IMWI
With this 8 week break from running ending Feb 1 (if all goes well) would you guys approach the entry back to the EN run workouts any differently? Would you make any modifications to the 1st 4-6 weeks of the OS given the extra time I will have by not running?
Thanks in advance!
Happy New Year! Just a quick question - if I change my 2010 race schedule (based on your feedback when I joined at the beginning of the month) do you want to know about it (and if so, is that something to post in this thread)? Or is that something to cut out on my own and not worry about anymore?
Thanks!
A little direction please
-
Starting Jan OS today
Running 1/2 mary 3/21
I need to build in my long run within the OS plan. Any suggestions about what workouts to change or eliminate?
Thanks. Happy New Year!!
Gina
I've been successfully butchering my OS plan on my own. But, now I need help
I started with the Nov OS 2 weeks late, due to a hamstring pull. No prob.
But, now I've been in Florida for the holidays with no bike. I "should" start Week 8 today, but didn't think it smart to test after almost 2 weeks of no biking. So, I was just going to start Week 7. Seems okay. But, now I'll complicate it even more.
This Friday, I'm going to the doc for the Big Snip. (I was actually scheduled to do it LAST January, but canceled it for the Power Clinic at FastSplits
) Doctor's orders: no hard, lower-body exercise for two weeks (especially cycling!) So that pretty much means starting again on Monday, Jan 25th.
Think I should start at Week 7 again? So, to recap, I'd do Week 7 this week (after my holiday break), and again starting Week 7 on Monday, Jan 25. I think this would actually put me 1-week behind the December OS.
Thanks for your help!
p.s. my A race is Mooseman 70.3 on June 6th.
RnP: I am in the NOV OS group and have IMWI as my 2010 goal, well, ok, I'd like to qualify at IMWI, that's my REAL goal and I'm relying on you all to get me there
. Seriously, though, when/how do we set that training plan up? I had planned to do an HIM in June as warm-up, do I undertand it correctly that that's what we work hard on in spring and then transition to IM training after the HIM? I'm a little confused on the A race vs B race stuff and just want to make sure that I'm communicating properly with you so that you can help me. That statement was a little circuitous and too Tom Cruise-ish, I realize, but humor me, I just finished the run challenge and I'm beat!! 
Thanks in advance for the words of wisdom.
I am scheduled to run the louisville IM 2010, is it ok to do a half IM in mid may. I have no other races scheduled for the year.
Gina,
Your post above said HIM, not half mary, so, yes, we'll move the HIM into your account at the appropriate time.
Many folks are in the same boat as you re adapting the OS plan to fit a half marathon. I'll write a wiki post for everyone and tri to get it in the forum and up in the wiki tomorrow.