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The Macro Thread -- Get the Coaches' Advice on Season Planning, Big Picture Stuff

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  • Posted By Mike Hollern on 04 Jan 2010 04:09 PM

    I am scheduled to run the louisville IM 2010, is it ok to do a half IM in mid may.  I have no other races scheduled for the year.

     

    Yep, perfectly fine and a good idea, as Louisville is so far away. That's a lonngg time before an IM and we like to have you maintain a shorter term focus, doing smaller races up until about 12wks out.

  • Posted By Heather La Freniere on 04 Jan 2010 12:20 PM

    RnP: I am in the NOV OS group and have IMWI as my 2010 goal, well, ok, I'd like to qualify at IMWI, that's my REAL goal and I'm relying on you all to get me there . Seriously, though, when/how do we set that training plan up? I had planned to do an HIM in June as warm-up, do I undertand it correctly that that's what we work hard on in spring and then transition to IM training after the HIM? I'm a little confused on the A race vs B race stuff and just want to make sure that I'm communicating properly with you so that you can help me.   That statement was a little circuitous and too Tom Cruise-ish, I realize, but humor me, I just finished the run challenge and I'm beat!!

    Thanks in advance for the words of wisdom.

     

    Heather,

    Good question. We are working on a some tools, processes back here and, probably within 3-4wks:

    • You will lay out your race schedule. It will probably be added to your forum profile so you, we, everyone can see it.
    • We will deliver to you "something" that says "we recommend you do this plan, then that plan, then this plan, etc"
    • You'll then be able to load and manipulate these training plans into your account, without having to ask us to do it for.
    • Then, as always, you'll come here in the forum to ask for help, advice, etc.

    What you need to realize is that not a single person in on this team training for any race later than, say, IMCDA, needs to be thinking about anything other then OS plan from now through...early or mid-May. The OS is your key to getting faster. Not an HIM plan or IM plan.

    Bottomline is that with your goals for IMWI you do NOT need to be thinking about IMWI, at all, for a good long while. Focus on the OS and get very, very fast. The volume and endurance will take care of itself when the time comes.

  • Posted By Geoff Palmer on 04 Jan 2010 11:08 AM

    I've been successfully butchering my OS plan on my own. But, now I need help 

     

    I started with the Nov OS 2 weeks late, due to a hamstring pull. No prob.

     

    But, now I've been in Florida for the holidays with no bike. I "should" start Week 8 today, but didn't think it smart to test after almost 2 weeks of no biking. So, I was just going to start Week 7. Seems okay. But, now I'll complicate it even more.

     

    This Friday, I'm going to the doc for the Big Snip. (I was actually scheduled to do it LAST January, but canceled it for the Power Clinic at FastSplits ) Doctor's orders: no hard, lower-body exercise for two weeks (especially cycling!) So that pretty much means starting again on Monday, Jan 25th.

     

    Think I should start at Week 7 again? So, to recap, I'd do Week 7 this week (after my holiday break), and again starting Week 7 on Monday, Jan 25. I think this would actually put me 1-week behind the December OS.

     

    Thanks for your help!

     

    p.s. my A race is Mooseman 70.3 on June 6th.



    Geoff,

    I think this week you should just follow whevever you are in the plan, have your surgery on Friday, then play it by ear about where/how to start back up. IOW, we are ultimately talking about what you should be doing 3wks from now, after having been on vacation through the holidays and after surgery. Just not worth spinning our wheels on it until we get there.

    I was spayed in '01. Felt like I had be kicked in the nutz for a couple days, but wasn't that bad. I remember doing a roadie ride a week or so later and bailing close to home....cuz I was dealing with some discomfort that just wasn't pleasant. I think 2wks of zero lower body exercise might be a bit conservative, but I'm a tri coach, not a plumber . I think I'd play it safe when messing with the junk.

  • Posted By Carly Morse on 31 Dec 2009 10:53 AM

    Hi RnP!



    Happy New Year! Just a quick question - if I change my 2010 race schedule (based on your feedback when I joined at the beginning of the month) do you want to know about it (and if so, is that something to post in this thread)? Or is that something to cut out on my own and not worry about anymore?



    Thanks!

     

    Hey Carly,

    Per a post above, we are working some admin stuff back here to help us all with this. Should up shortly, thanks.

  • Posted By Jim Hansen on 31 Dec 2009 10:45 AM

    RnP - I want to make sure I'm on track with the following game plan:

    A few weeks ago I was diagnosed with a stress reaction to a pelvic bone (explains the progressively growing groin pain I've had for over a year).  Doc says 8 weeks of no running which puts me at Feb 1 to lace up again.  Biking and swimming cause no pain so I'm clear to do those activities and will be hitting all the OS bike workouts as planned.  Assuming I'm all healed up and running with no pain at the end of this break could you please give your comments/suggestions to the following timeline:

    Jan 4, 2010: Start OS - scheduled bike sessions only (from last year's OS experience I know it probably wouldn't be necessary or wise to add any more bike work, right?); substitute core strengthening and stretching for the run sessions; swim 1x-2x/week; start deep water running and elliptical late Jan I think that since you won't be running at all you could probably accomodate 1, maybe 2 additional bike sessions. Either duplicating one of the interval session, or just doing z3/80-85% work as you feel like it.

    Feb 1: Take 1st steps with the run shoes - slowly ramp up mileage for about 6 weeks all at Easy pace You might not need 6wks but best to be safe given your injury. I say plan for 4-6wks but be smart and see what hapens. 

    mid- to late March: Should be good to start running with intensity again - should I pick up run workouts at this point of the OS or go back to OS week 1 run workouts? Let's get through this above and see where we are.

    Again, plenty of time to sort out this race schedule stuff below.

    May: finish OS; race a "B" 1/2 mary

    June: Start IM plan; race a "B" 1/2 IM

    June-Sept: IM plan for IMWI

    With this 8 week break from running ending Feb 1 (if all goes well) would you guys approach the entry back to the EN run workouts any differently?  Would you make any modifications to the 1st 4-6 weeks of the OS given the extra time I will have by not running? Let's get there when we get there. You're a good runner with a good running history, excellent body comp, etc. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't have a problem with you jumping into the OS runningn plan after 2wks of consistant running. But let's see how this pelvis stuff shakes itself out first.

    Thanks in advance!

     

  • RnP - happy new year, hope all is well - My "A" race is IMUSA on July 25th - I know it's a long way away but I'm going out of town Memorial Day weekend for a wedding (thought this was probably a big bike weekend and I wasn't planning on sending my bike out for a few days) -- any suggestions, I know I can focus on the run but I don't want to mess up the EN program 8 weeks prior to the race

    Thanks in advance for your feedback,
    Joe
  • Posted By Joe Priore on 04 Jan 2010 05:58 PM

    RnP - happy new year, hope all is well - My "A" race is IMUSA on July 25th - I know it's a long way away but I'm going out of town Memorial Day weekend for a wedding (thought this was probably a big bike weekend and I wasn't planning on sending my bike out for a few days) -- any suggestions, I know I can focus on the run but I don't want to mess up the EN program 8 weeks prior to the race



    Thanks in advance for your feedback,

    Joe



    Joe,

    Please read this thread, we will move it over to the Wiki so it's easier to find.

  • Posted By Rich Strauss on 04 Jan 2010 04:49 PM
    Geoff,

    I think this week you should just follow whevever you are in the plan, have your surgery on Friday, then play it by ear about where/how to start back up. IOW, we are ultimately talking about what you should be doing 3wks from now, after having been on vacation through the holidays and after surgery. Just not worth spinning our wheels on it until we get there.

    I was spayed in '01. Felt like I had be kicked in the nutz for a couple days, but wasn't that bad. I remember doing a roadie ride a week or so later and bailing close to home....cuz I was dealing with some discomfort that just wasn't pleasant. I think 2wks of zero lower body exercise might be a bit conservative, but I'm a tri coach, not a plumber . I think I'd play it safe when messing with the junk.

     

    Rich - thanks for your response. I think I'll be on the more conservative side, as the doc has put the fear of God in me with his constant use of the term "EGGPLANT" as the side effect of not following his instructions post-op 

  • Thanks and you sound exactly like my husband, who is also a tri-coach (but I won't tell him that ). I just didn't want to 'mess up' because I missed inputting some key information or something, you know? Might scrap a summer HIM altogether as I'm looking at doing Bike Tour Colorado in June to pop the bike fitness level of this flatlander.  Feedback on that? Also, since my prior "A" HIM has been cancelled, I have been invited to do NOLA 70.3 with a friend at the end of April. Good idea/bad idea?  Thanks!

  • Heather, NO is a good idea but you really, really want a race like that to have as little impact as possible on your OS training. CO bike tour in June sounds great! (you suck)

  • All "Half Mary in My OS" Peeps: please read this thread

  • Thanks guys.

    I have a similar question - I have registered for the "Around the Bay" race at the end of March. It is a 30km race. Definitely a B/C race, but still want to do well and show up my peeps image

    I'm currently in the Nov OS plan. How should I change up my running plan to accommodate this longer race? I assume I'll need to start a bit earlier than 4 weeks out and have more running distance "steps" to my race.

    Current vDOT is 43, but hoping to hit 44-45 by that point. Expected completion time maybe ~ 2:45 (??).

    Mike.
  • OK EN Newbie here...
    Just requested a plan change to advanced for the 70.3 Florida on May 16.

    My season looks like this:
    03/14 - MIT (C)
    04/25 - St Anthony's (C)
    05/16 - IM 70.3 Florida (B)
    08/08 - IM 70.3 Boulder (C)
    08/29 - IM Louisville (B)
    11/06 - IM Florida (A)

    IMFL is my A race. Everything else is to have fun and get the bugs out so I can let it rip on 11/06 - although I do have a friend who just entered my AG and I really want to kick her ass at MIT and IM 70.3 FL image

    I guess my question is, will my training for IM Louisville overlap the end of my IM 70.3 Florida plan? How do I get an idea of my overall season plan? Not exactly sure how that is going to work. Thanks and my apologies if I've missed this info somewhere - no excuse, been too busy to spend a lot of time on the site.

    - Chris
  • When do we/can we see our plan after transition from OS to HIM /IM ? Are the HIM/IM plans parked somewhere we can get a look ?

    I think I move over early Feb and would like to see the flavor.

    Thanks.

  • I have a question about taking on another race in my season...I think it should be an easy one:

    I am doing NOLA 70.3 on April 18th and there is a big local Olympic Distance Tri (Memphis in May) on May 23.  I am guessing that I should be fine to go ahead and register for this (it is NOT an A race, but would be a fun race)...what do you think?  My next race, my A race, is IM Louisville in August.

    Thanks

  • Thanks, for all feedback .

  • @ Steve, yes, you'll be fine. I know that several other ENers are also racing MiM so maybe you folks could all hook up.

  • Posted By william wiseman on 05 Jan 2010 07:34 PM

    When do we/can we see our plan after transition from OS to HIM /IM ? Are the HIM/IM plans parked somewhere we can get a look ?

    I think I move over early Feb and would like to see the flavor.

    Thanks.

     

    Bill, you'll see them when you get to them. You, and everyone else are paying for plans as a monthly subscription = you can see training weeks 2-3wks in advance. Thanks.

  • @Chris, good question. 98% of our IM peeps will do the 12wk Ironman plan, not the 20wk. In other words, they way that we prefer you to work is to:

    • Do the entire OS. It's our best tool for making you faster.
    • Transition you into at least the last 6-8wks of the HIM plan, sometimes only 4wks.
    • Transition you there into the last 12-16wks of the IM plan, sometimes only the last 8-10wks.

    But don't worry about all of this now. We have plenty of time to sort it all out. Thanks!

  • @Mike, see the half mary guidance link up there. Follow that. You only need a 2hr run. We don't like to have our athletes ever run longer than 2hrs unless they are training for an IM. You'll be fine work up your long to and capping it at 2hrs.

  • Hi Rich and Patrick
    You guys asked for an update after surgery so:
    I have been out of the loop for a week since surgery last week and tomorrow hope to be cleared to do aerobic work and go back on the schedule. I am currently on the Nov OS and the last thing I did was the V02 measurement.
    My races: marathon-only training run to around 15-18 miles-3/28
    HIM May 28-need a good solid race here
    A race NOv13 IM

    RIght now I am tired after only 40 mins easy on the bike trainer, have not run at all or swam since surgery, and my HR is higher by about 10-15 beats for the same effort on the trainer than before surgery (just the lasting effects of the anesthesia on the diaphragm)

    I should be cleared by end of this week and I need to pick up my run mileage to the next run as close to 12 miles as i can for long run. (ran 10.5 9 days ago )
    So where should I pick up next week for the OS? I know I will tire easily for another couple of weeks.

    Please advise as to where I should pick up given the tiring.
    thanks
    mary
  • John's post indicates that we who are in for IMSG will be exiting the OS plan about the end of this month. True? Or do you know yet?

    Also, with the changes you discussed at a high level to the IM plans WRT race sims make my prior thoughts about a possible big weekend in Tucson the 2nd week in March not worth the effort? Do you suppose I'd be better served trying to get to St. George for some race pace riding on course? I should start solidifying plans for time off and stuff for what ever I do over the next couple of weeks.

    Thanks for everything, guys!
  • @ MaryD -- Recovery is paramount right now, for all sorts of reasons your body might just want "more time" to get back to right. I would pick up with the OS exactly where you should be now, only do the MS at an effort you can sustain for the set. IOW, it might call for 2x121 ;FTP, but if you can only do .85 or .8, then do that. Want you in the rhythm of the week, pushing "hard enough" as soon as you can...you'll bounce back quickly! If you want/need us to adjust your plan, let me know via the training plan change form!

    Patrick

  • Posted By Olivia Syptak on 06 Jan 2010 09:12 PM

    John's post indicates that we who are in for IMSG will be exiting the OS plan about the end of this month. True? Or do you know yet?



    Also, with the changes you discussed at a high level to the IM plans WRT race sims make my prior thoughts about a possible big weekend in Tucson the 2nd week in March not worth the effort? Do you suppose I'd be better served trying to get to St. George for some race pace riding on course? I should start solidifying plans for time off and stuff for what ever I do over the next couple of weeks.

     

    OS - We need to formalize this, but yes, 2/8 is 12 weeks out and time to be "on" for your race. I personally would plan on a 1/31 (sunday) end date, taking a week off as transition, then going IM flavored. I think the Tucson thing is perfect...it's 8 weeks out and ANYONE doing IMSG could benefit from a serious volume pop to jumpstart the training. Cool to do in IMSG on the course if you can, but not required...cooler to do it in Tucson with 8-12 EN peeps. You can always recon bike on Wed/Th of IM week. If you want to draft a plan (day off here, week there, etc) you can do that and we'll give you feedback for sure!

  • Thanks Patrick re: where to pick up post surgery. yes the body wants a bit more time. i spent an easy hour yesterday on trainer (and i mean EASY) and i was exhausted this morning.
    will proceed as you mention and the doc is happy with the progress.
    thanks
    mary
  • It's been exactly 3 weeks since I have done any real running. Dr has cleared me to start running again. Yesterday was 10 minutes at EP and foot felt great... I'm thinking 15 minutes or so tomorrow just to make sure it's still ok and then I will build up at EP for a few more days before doing any work.

    Assuming it goes well, when you do recomend I jump back into doing the interval work? Should I just pick up at the current week (probably 11 or 12) or should I start were I left off (week 8 i think) so I get the full block of z5 training. What about starting over with the Jan OS for the run?

    FWIW, I'm running a half marathon on March 21st and Full on April 19th, but I'm not going to try and PR in either so I have no concerns if I end up in the OS long then planned. Heck, I'll stay in the OS until May or June if you guys let me :-)

    Thanks!
  • Hi Coaches RnP:

    I'm pretty new to Da Haus and I have some marco level questions. I'm not sure if I started my OS plan too early (started October, exit Feb 28) and how that's going to affect my IM plan. Here's the deal: IM Louisville (August 29, 26 weeks after I exit my OS) is my 'A' race and I want to train for it like I'm trying to qualify for Kona. I'm not saying I have a snowball's chance of qualifying but if I don't try, I never will. I now have to pick a Half IM or 2. Problem is I live in Ohio and don't have mega $$$ to travel across the country for an early early Half IM (March, April, May, etc.). If I decide to do Kansas 70.3 (which I want to be an 'A' race as well) on June 6, that leaves only 11 weeks to Louisville. My question is do I load up Half IM plans to get me to Kansas (which is a whopping 13 weeks out from my OS), race Kansas, and then load up the last 11 weeks of an IM plan. OR load up an IM plan on April 11 (20 weeks from Louisville) and make Kansas 70.3 "fit" into that schedule?

    Thanks,
    Amy
  • Hi RnP,

    I would love to hear your thinking behind the changes for the Sat. rides this year. For the past two OSs, the workout for the Int. plan has been 1x15@ 95-100% and 2x15 @ 85% (give or take). Tomorrow is:

    2x15 @ 95-100%

    3x 3 @ Z5

    2x15 @ 85%

    I'm not complaining, and up for the challenge, but curious why the FT work+ has nearly tripled? Inform and inspire, por favor! Thanks!

     

     

  • Posted By Linda Patch on 08 Jan 2010 03:13 PM

    Hi RnP,

    I would love to hear your thinking behind the changes for the Sat. rides this year. For the past two OSs, the workout for the Int. plan has been 1x15@ 95-100% and 2x15 @ 85% (give or take). Tomorrow is:

    2x15 @ 95-100%

    3x 3 @ Z5

    2x15 @ 85%

    I'm not complaining, and up for the challenge, but curious why the FT work+ has nearly tripled? Inform and inspire, por favor! Thanks!

     

     

    Linda, happy to discuss, but not in this thread. Intent of this thread is to discuss macro level issues with YOUR plan, specifically integration with races, vacations, this big picture thing has change, what do I do, etc.

    Please post separately, thanks!

  • @Matt, I think I'd give it a couple weeks of "everything looks good" before dropping into the interval work.

    @Amy, you don't "need" to schedule a HIM. We completely understand the $$$ thing. However, we highly recommend you put "something" on the calendar to give yourself a short term focus. Today is Jan 9 and you do not need to be thinking about Louisville. You should be thinking "short and fast" until about 10-12wks out. I suggest creating an epic training weekend opportunity, or two, for yourself and train for those. You'll see us organize a Memorial Day Weekend challenge and it looks like some poeple are planning an epic weekend to coincide with the Boston Maraton.

    Regarding when to switch to what plan when, don't worry about that right now. We are working on some stuff back here whereby everyone will input their race schedule and PnI will deliver something to you that tells you what to do when. But it's nothing you need to be thinking about right now. Just put your head down and do the work

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