Kathy, per the specs you are correct and Shimano "says" 27 is the largest for a 6600 or 7800 Short Cage (ie SS) RD. However, I have run a 27 and it fit fine with plenty of extra room to fit a 28. I also have seen many people run a 28 on a 7800 RD.
The B screw controls the distance between the RD cog and the cassette, the tighter you make the b-screw the further from the cassette the RD sits. The b-screw is the little adjustment screw that pushes the entire RD away from the derailer hanger on the frame. Both Shimano and SRAM RD instructions explain on to correctly set it.
@Kathy, you're welcome, and it's good that you brought it up because everyone can learn from it. Keep asking good questions thats the point of the Haus
i ordered the keys to race day but have not recieved it unless i am doing something wrong, i thought i would recieve an e-mail each week with the info and either i have not received it yet or i did not recognize it and accidently erased it, please advise what i should do.
Hi Coach/experts. Just listened the excellent podcast on gearing. I was that man standing out of the saddle at Wisconsin at cadence of 40 (or less?!). I’m ashamed to admit that while I was checking my tyres, indexing etc in minute detail I didn’t give a second thought to my gearing This now has to change as I’m doing Ironman France in 2011, with over 5,000 ft of climbing. The hills are long, with even gradients (and fast, technical descents).
I may be restricted in my options as I am using Dura Ace SRMs, so going to a compact crank is ruled out (I’m sure you don’t want me riding without power!). But I’ve had the outer ring on my Dura Ace SRM chainset changed previously when the teeth got worn, so I wonder if it’s possible to change the front gearing by fitting different outer rings?
Current set up: 10spd Dura Ace. Crank length 175mm. Chainset: 53/39. Current cassette on the Zipp rear is 21/11. Yes, you read that correctly – 21/11. It came fitted and I’ve never thought about changing it Please don’t fly to London and punch me on the nose
You should be fine with a 27 on the back and your w/kg. Can't put compact rings on your srm as most of them have a 110 mm bolt pattern and you have 130mm bolt pattern. As for France I hear that the best plan is more watts less kg...kinda like everywhere else.
New guy perspective here....I don't have any problem switching cassettes out, especially for specific courses. BUT, I am stressing about the front.
At some point in the near future, I'll be taking Rich's advice when I put a Quarq/SRAM COMPACT on. I've been pushing 54/42 for the past 3 years. So, this is gonna be a big change for me and I'm worried about....going slower!
BUT...I'm here to be coached. Therefore, I'll take that leap and do what the coaches/vets say, cuz if I can maintain the bike splits and become a faster runner, then IM times will be dropping.
Chris - you will not be going slower unless you pedal softer. Remember a 50/11 is a taller gear than a 53/12. IIRC a 50/11 spins out at like 34 mph. You pedal faster than that?
Further, Rich rides with a 50/12 and has a few bike splits in 5:05 land, how much faster than that did you plan on riding?
Thanks Chris/Al. Next dopey question then: My current cassette is marked '7800' Dura Ace. Online shops are offering me either '7900' Dura Ace or '6600' Ultegra 10spd cassettes. What's the significance/does this matter?
Des, 6700, 6600, 7800, and 7900 are interchange able as far as cassettes. Get what is the least expensive as you will wear them out anyway. SRAM cassettes will work fine as well.
Chris, To me under 5:00 and 2:15 is where I would start to think about other gearing. I know for a fact that hose times can be done comfortably with a compact but I think a standard becomes a more feasible option.
You might also consider a 38t small front chain ring, which is the smallest to fit on a 130mm bolt circle. Granted 38t is only 2.5% smaller than a 39t, but every little bit, right?
and @EveryoneElseToo. thx, Would be very surprised if I ever got to a point where I needed to figure out if it was my crankset that was keeping me from cracking the 5hr mark. (But, I'll do the best that I can to get that problem )
I am riding a P3C and have the standard 54/30 and 25-12 gearing, and I am building for IM CdA right now.. I am noticing that I probably would benefit from a climbing standpoint by having more gears. However, I don't want to give up my downhill riding by shifting my gearing dramatically.
Yeah, LOL, 50/34. So, replace the back with either of those and I will have more easy gears without sacrificing the harder (downhill) gearing? I am guessing that the 12/27 is just giving me a little more easy gearing...that right?
Looking for some advice as newbie biker. I've the most basic, cheapest probably out there - Scott road bike, Shimano 105 components, 53/39 172.5 with 25/12 in the rear (9 spd - I think). I'll be doing wisconsin this year and totally understand the compact crank suggestion from Rich to get more gearing with less gaps for the climbs.
So, my questions is - do I just go out and buy a Shim 105 compact crank 50/34? If not, which one? If so, is that all I need to look for (anything special to look for before I just go to Amazon and order one?)
Shimano 105 components, 53/39 172.5 with 25/12 in the rear (9 spd - I think).
So, my questions is - do I just go out and buy a Shim 105 compact crank 50/34? If not, which one? If so, is that all I need to look for (anything special to look for before I just go to Amazon and order one?)
If you have 9 speed, that means an Octalink bottom bracket. Look for a mounting bolt through the center face of the drive side crank. (chain ring side)
Any current Shimano (10 speed) compact crank will work with your 9 or 10 speed cassette and chain. But, probably requires a new external BB to go with it. Changing cranks needs only allen wrenches. Changing the BB takes special wrenches. Your LBS can do that for you, should take < 5 minutes, and I wouldn't expect to charge more than a couple bucks.
You will also need to lower the front derailleur to match the smaller diameter of the 50 vs 53t chain ring.. With a braze-on derailleur (bolts to a bracket "brazed on" the frame) you may not have enough travel (slot too short) to move the derailleur down far enough.
I did the same with my wife's Trek 5000. Trek had a replacement, bolt-on hangar that was long enough. Although, I think they just machined the slot a little longer/lower (DIY: think dremel) to provide enough adjustment.
Re lowering the front DR: I had to use a SRAM Force FDR on my P3C to lower it enough to use with a compact crank. The SRAM unit has two position (high and low) vs one for Shimano. About $75 at the time.
Hi folks, have read through all of these. I kind of have the converse of Kathy's situation: I would like to keep everything on my new bike the stock Ultegra-6700; problem is, Shimano only makes either 12-25, 11-25, or 11-28 in Ultegra-6700. Running compact 50/34 upfront. Strauss, Chris G, Al, and company, your suggestions between these three and comments re: appropriateness for Eagleman/Placid/Kona? Thanks!
Jonathan, if you are trying to stick to 6700 just because you want to that is fine, however, keep in mind that 6600, 6700, 7800, 7900 and all Sram (apex, rival, force, red and even the MTB) cassettes are interchangable. Therefore you have many options to find the gears you want.
I personally see no reason to run a full matching groupset. I have mixed and matched many combinations and they all work fine. The only real restriction is that your RD and rear shifter have to have the same pull, otherwise everything else is mix and match between shimano/sram 10 speed. Campy is a different story.
For training I personally like running all SRAM components with a shimano 6700 cassette and shimano or kmc chain. For racing I have a Sram red cassette which I gain nothing from but as long as I have it I figure I might as well use it.
Jonathan - agreed with everything that Matt said above.
I've got an Ultegra drivetrain that I frequently switch out SRAM and Shimano cassettes.
If you're looking for ONE CASSETTE for all of the races, go wide 11-26 or 11-28. If you want to get a few cassettes, for ultra-flat eagleman go high 11-25 or 12-25 dare I say 11-23. For LP go low 12-27. Keep in mind, the wider the spacing you have in the cluster, the more of a cadence difference you'll have between gears.
For reference, last year I did eagleman with 11-26 and IMLP with a 12-27 with a 50/34 up front. Eaglman is a very fast course, but when the winds pick up, you may want some of the lower gears.
Thank you to both of you! Starting to realize value of more than one cassette. Given that performance now having sale on Ultegra 6700 cassettes for $69, am now thinking of owning two cassettes. According to above info, use the 12-25 on trainer/Eagleman and possibly Kona; and an 11-28 specifically for Placid and possibly Kona. Would then use the 12-25 as standard cassette and reserve 11-28 for hilly courses like LP.
Before I head over to Performance, does this seem like reasonable approach?
I run 12-25 pretty much all the time (50/34 up front).
I live in a rolling hill area...and there are a few spots with ~10% grades in which I could probably use a 27. And if the wind is absolutely still or at my back, I'm getting close to spinning out in the low 30s mph, so sometimes I pretend I'd want an 11.
I have a 12-27 (from SRAM) and I almost never use it any more for two reasons: (1) There's a cadence gap I don't like and I rarely need the 27 during training. (2) My experience was that I never could get the ultrasmooth shifting that I get with all shimano on my drivetrain. I know Mancona says they are completely interchangeable, and I don't know why I had a slightly different experience... but I did. I am going to do the Madison camp in July and ride the first day with 12-25 and am considering riding the second day with 12-27 just to see I which like better.
For those really hilly courses where width is the first priority, you can live with the cadence gaps that you might not like for every day. That's a good trade-off, but you might not want it at home every day.
Thanks guys! Went with Ultegra 6700 12-25 and 11-28, so can try each in different conditions to decide which to use for each race. William I too wanted to keep it all consistent, in my case new Ultegra 6700.
A little late in the game I know, but I am about to put a new cassette on the back for IMLP...I have a 12-25 on now which came with my cervelo p2 (compact 50/34 up front)...Wanted a 12-27 BUT local tri shop only has 11-28..
Is an 11-28 a comparable alternative to a 12-27...is this an ok move? I guess I'm looking for a little reassurance if this is ok.
P.S. not planning on putting it in the 50/11 and pushing a big gear on my way to Upper Jay or down the decent for that matter...Just looking for more gears to get up whiteface 2X.. Thanks
@Cary, thanks for the input...I'm going to try and find a 12-27 online and have it overnighted. I've called several LBS and none of them have one. if I have to I'll put the 11-28 on that the shop has..
@ Nate - I use an 11/28 as my evryday cassette due to the hilly terrain I ride all of the time. You will appreciate the extra gears for IMLP. When I did IMTX earlier this year I used the lowest gear many times to minimize my power output going up the hills.
@ Nate - I have an 11-28 on my bike, and just finished IM CDA with it. The 28 came in very handy on the hills as I was able to simply spin up them while other racings were having to grind their way up. The 11 also was good on the descents. yes, you do get a slightly larger gap in the gearing, but it isn't too big a gap and I'll take that for the broader range of gears.
Comments
Thanks Matt, learned something new again. I will shut up and sit down now.
@Kathy, you're welcome, and it's good that you brought it up because everyone can learn from it. Keep asking good questions thats the point of the Haus
Hi Coach/experts. Just listened the excellent podcast on gearing. I was that man standing out of the saddle at Wisconsin at cadence of 40 (or less?!). I’m ashamed to admit that while I was checking my tyres, indexing etc in minute detail I didn’t give a second thought to my gearing
This now has to change as I’m doing Ironman France in 2011, with over 5,000 ft of climbing. The hills are long, with even gradients (and fast, technical descents).
Please don’t fly to London and punch me on the nose
I may be restricted in my options as I am using Dura Ace SRMs, so going to a compact crank is ruled out (I’m sure you don’t want me riding without power!). But I’ve had the outer ring on my Dura Ace SRM chainset changed previously when the teeth got worn, so I wonder if it’s possible to change the front gearing by fitting different outer rings?
Current set up: 10spd Dura Ace. Crank length 175mm. Chainset: 53/39. Current cassette on the Zipp rear is 21/11. Yes, you read that correctly – 21/11. It came fitted and I’ve never thought about changing it
Your advice re: France would be much appreciated.
Des
12/27 in the rear won't make you any less of an Ironman, and will make you a faster runner.
Des,
You should be fine with a 27 on the back and your w/kg. Can't put compact rings on your srm as most of them have a 110 mm bolt pattern and you have 130mm bolt pattern. As for France I hear that the best plan is more watts less kg...kinda like everywhere else.
New guy perspective here....I don't have any problem switching cassettes out, especially for specific courses. BUT, I am stressing about the front.
At some point in the near future, I'll be taking Rich's advice when I put a Quarq/SRAM COMPACT on. I've been pushing 54/42 for the past 3 years. So, this is gonna be a big change for me and I'm worried about....going slower
!
BUT...I'm here to be coached. Therefore, I'll take that leap and do what the coaches/vets say, cuz if I can maintain the bike splits and become a faster runner, then IM times will be dropping.
Just wanted to confess that.
Chris - you will not be going slower unless you pedal softer. Remember a 50/11 is a taller gear than a 53/12. IIRC a 50/11 spins out at like 34 mph. You pedal faster than that?
Further, Rich rides with a 50/12 and has a few bike splits in 5:05 land, how much faster than that did you plan on riding?
Chris, To me under 5:00 and 2:15 is where I would start to think about other gearing. I know for a fact that hose times can be done comfortably with a compact but I think a standard becomes a more feasible option.
You might also consider a 38t small front chain ring, which is the smallest to fit on a 130mm bolt circle. Granted 38t is only 2.5% smaller than a 39t, but every little bit, right?
I switched to a compact last year, too.
-Joe
@Chris G, thx. needed that perspective.
and @EveryoneElseToo. thx, Would be very surprised if I ever got to a point where I needed to figure out if it was my crankset that was keeping me from cracking the 5hr mark. (But, I'll do the best that I can to get that problem
)
I am riding a P3C and have the standard 54/30 and 25-12 gearing, and I am building for IM CdA right now.. I am noticing that I probably would benefit from a climbing standpoint by having more gears. However, I don't want to give up my downhill riding by shifting my gearing dramatically.
Thoughts?
So, my questions is - do I just go out and buy a Shim 105 compact crank 50/34? If not, which one? If so, is that all I need to look for (anything special to look for before I just go to Amazon and order one?)
Thanks!!
If you have 9 speed, that means an Octalink bottom bracket. Look for a mounting bolt through the center face of the drive side crank. (chain ring side)
Any current Shimano (10 speed) compact crank will work with your 9 or 10 speed cassette and chain. But, probably requires a new external BB to go with it. Changing cranks needs only allen wrenches. Changing the BB takes special wrenches. Your LBS can do that for you, should take < 5 minutes, and I wouldn't expect to charge more than a couple bucks.
You will also need to lower the front derailleur to match the smaller diameter of the 50 vs 53t chain ring.. With a braze-on derailleur (bolts to a bracket "brazed on" the frame) you may not have enough travel (slot too short) to move the derailleur down far enough.
I did the same with my wife's Trek 5000. Trek had a replacement, bolt-on hangar that was long enough. Although, I think they just machined the slot a little longer/lower (DIY: think dremel) to provide enough adjustment.
-Joe
I personally see no reason to run a full matching groupset. I have mixed and matched many combinations and they all work fine. The only real restriction is that your RD and rear shifter have to have the same pull, otherwise everything else is mix and match between shimano/sram 10 speed. Campy is a different story.
For training I personally like running all SRAM components with a shimano 6700 cassette and shimano or kmc chain. For racing I have a Sram red cassette which I gain nothing from but as long as I have it I figure I might as well use it.
I've got an Ultegra drivetrain that I frequently switch out SRAM and Shimano cassettes.
If you're looking for ONE CASSETTE for all of the races, go wide 11-26 or 11-28. If you want to get a few cassettes, for ultra-flat eagleman go high 11-25 or 12-25 dare I say 11-23. For LP go low 12-27. Keep in mind, the wider the spacing you have in the cluster, the more of a cadence difference you'll have between gears.
For reference, last year I did eagleman with 11-26 and IMLP with a 12-27 with a 50/34 up front. Eaglman is a very fast course, but when the winds pick up, you may want some of the lower gears.
Before I head over to Performance, does this seem like reasonable approach?
Thanks!
JL
I run 12-25 pretty much all the time (50/34 up front).
I live in a rolling hill area...and there are a few spots with ~10% grades in which I could probably use a 27. And if the wind is absolutely still or at my back, I'm getting close to spinning out in the low 30s mph, so sometimes I pretend I'd want an 11.
I have a 12-27 (from SRAM) and I almost never use it any more for two reasons: (1) There's a cadence gap I don't like and I rarely need the 27 during training. (2) My experience was that I never could get the ultrasmooth shifting that I get with all shimano on my drivetrain. I know Mancona says they are completely interchangeable, and I don't know why I had a slightly different experience... but I did. I am going to do the Madison camp in July and ride the first day with 12-25 and am considering riding the second day with 12-27 just to see I which like better.
For those really hilly courses where width is the first priority, you can live with the cadence gaps that you might not like for every day. That's a good trade-off, but you might not want it at home every day.
Wm
Is an 11-28 a comparable alternative to a 12-27...is this an ok move? I guess I'm looking for a little reassurance if this is ok.
P.S. not planning on putting it in the 50/11 and pushing a big gear on my way to Upper Jay or down the decent for that matter...Just looking for more gears to get up whiteface 2X..
Thanks
11-28 will work but the gears will be spaced apart a bit more than a 12-27 (cadence gap). That being said, I'd sooner run with an 11-28 than a 12-25.
Any chance you can get an 11-26 (SRAM) or 12-27 somewhere else? Cassettes are very easy to change.
@ Nate - I use an 11/28 as my evryday cassette due to the hilly terrain I ride all of the time. You will appreciate the extra gears for IMLP. When I did IMTX earlier this year I used the lowest gear many times to minimize my power output going up the hills.
@ Nate - I have an 11-28 on my bike, and just finished IM CDA with it. The 28 came in very handy on the hills as I was able to simply spin up them while other racings were having to grind their way up. The 11 also was good on the descents. yes, you do get a slightly larger gap in the gearing, but it isn't too big a gap and I'll take that for the broader range of gears.