V02 Max to the max!
How's everyone doing? We are down to about half a dozen posters in the Snowflake group. How's about just about everyone post an update this week on last week or this week's VO2 Max experience and feelings so far?
For me, my body is absorbing the work. GH, I hit the VO2 Max this week like this 
WHAA -HOOO! Did the 1.2x both Tues and Thu with no issues. A little less yesterday. Flew around my neighborhood on Wednesday morning doing 200s and 400s. Today, I ran with a friend who really pushed me so got .91 IF for 74 minutes and feel pretty good.
Keep up the good work everyone. We will unleash the beasts once spring comes!
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I am in week 9.
Did the first VO2 set on the bike today and hit IF's of 1.23, 1.19, 1.16, and 1.18. They "hurt" but not unbearably. Ended up having technology issues (ended up getting a new Joule) and then followed by a crappy bike test last week, and only went up 3 pts on the FTP, felt like it should have been much more 275-278.
will see how well I do with the new paces and the VO2 work this week, before deciding to bump the FTP number up or not.
My run paces are quite a bit faster since I had a good run test. Running has always been my weaker leg (so to speak) anyway.
I did wed run w/o today for sched reasons. have to download to laptop at work, but beyond Z5 in my 200s and 400s. work works
Oh yes, I am in week 9 as well
Jane, Bill, Paul and Scott - Good work all around. Keep it up.
I agree with Scott - How is everyone else doing? There are over 40 of us in Dec OS.
I'm in week 9 too, so I did the 1st VO2 bike workout this am. That will wake you up.
Training by HR so I got up to 165-167 range while my LTHR on the bike is 153. I was able to hold the rpms and gear but I'm convinced the clocked stopped moving several times during the last interval. Then did 1x30' @ HR 140-143. Then ran for 15' @ Z1 8:30 pace HR 136-138, which felt really, really easy. I guess that is the whole point of the EN training concept. Work works!
Big snow storm coming my way tonight. Illinois governor declared state of emergency so everything will be closed tomorrow. Guess my work out tomorrow will be shoveling snow. Expecting 18-22 inches.
Good luck with the VO2 work outs this week.
finally downloaded my data from the run this morning - 2x200, 2x400, 2x200 all Z5
first question - what does it mean in the W/O to "recover fully"? i look it to mean do a full 200 or 400 m but at a slower pace to recover. Is that right?
Second, I am using WKO - but the 200M intervals aren't long enough to give me a TSS % - is there a fix here? it's no big cause I get my pace (and it's under my Z5 pace). but would be nice.
Anywho target pace is 7:27/mile
first set 2x200 7:20 and 7:09 pace
second set 2x400 7:17 (111%) and 7:12 (122%)
Third set 2x200 6:55 and 6:47 pace
nice work out and the -18*c weather didn't bother me at all
I do exactly what you did for the 200s and 400s - look at the pace at the bottom of the WKO info since it won't give you and rTSS for such a short effort.
As far as full recovery, typically the same distance very slowly, get the HR down, down, down ...like 125 for me, (168 TH, 180 max) then when mentally and physically ready, hit it again! I just looked and the 200 rest was 1:00 to 1:30 minutes. The 400 rest was ~ 3 - 3:45 minutes. N = 1.
Great job everyone. I want to see new posters. You lurkers know who you are. Share with us!
nice work guys/gals!
there is an excel spreadsheet in the power pace forum for running that a couple Eners put together that calculates rTSS for you. just plug in time and pace. look up "rTSS" or something and you'll find it.
an easy way to judge "fully recover" is when you can breath normally again. you can walk, then shuffle until this happens, or walk only, or walk , shuffle, then light jog. i personally stay slower than Z1 during this time, since once i can breath I just start the next interval and don't want to be wasting ATPs on Z1.
Jane, question regarding the rose bowl 13.1 course:
once you start, do you drop right into the trails after that short hill? the course decription seems to say so, but the aid station info says there is water at orange grove and madeline and that's NOT near the trails!
thanks!
@DecOS: so, i am hacking this week in the following way due to the 13.1 race (70% trails) on sunday:
full bike VO2 on tues and thursday;
full run vo2 on wednesday (but with a running group 400, 800, 1200, 1200, 800, 400);
easy runs friday and saturday...then show time! i've been practicing on the course, so no excuses if i am slow
.
GH
Finally got to do a real bike VO2 Max work out today. I found myself higher than 1.20 on each of the 4 x 2.5 On / 2.5 Off - need to download the exact data but each was closer to 1.30. It was definitely a hard effort but I had a difficult time staying at 1.20 for some reason. It just did not feel like a natural effort to spin at. Guess I need to work on this. Anyone else ever have this issue? I don't think my FTP is off because on the longer intervals, the efforts feel appropriate.
Just finished my VO2 max work. It was tough! I had to stop for a few seconds in each one, but still hit above 1.2 on each interval (just barely...). Not sure if I am just tired because had a bit of a long day and did yoga this morning, or maybe I'm just getting used to hitting those high numbers. 2.5 minutes never felt so long!! I even had top gear on, but it wasn't doing it for me.
I hope to hear from more of the group, but thanks to all the 'regulars' for your contributions!
WOW! the run VO2 max stuff is much harder for me to pace. I did the first 2X200 WAY too fast, the 2X400 were all over the map, and the last 2X200 were right on pace.
feel OK, but impagine tomorrow's bike VO2 max set is gonna be fun!
thanks, melissa! steadying your core and keeping a steady pressure on the pedals over these intervals will help you to get thru the full 2.5 minutes. pelvis rocked forward, stable core, and steady pressure. the 2.5min vo2 intervals force you to do that which is why they are so good. one can just flail away with the 30/30's, but can't get away with that for 2.5minutes
at >100% FTP. once you get good at this technique, ALWAYS ride like that when it is time to get to work.
paul: i like to execute the vo2 run intervals by considering the distance. for example, i know i can speed over 200m, so i do. i don't mind going faster than i was supposed to. i just go hard with good form. the 400m requires a steady build to cruising speed and then sustaining that speed to the line. the interval times for the 200m, 400m, 800m, etc. start to automatically match my target pace as the workout progresses. as for pacing for the VO2 run, i go as fast as i can go while still holding form throughout. when i do this, the times work themselves out eventually, as vdot predicted, while allowing me to push the envelope when i am fresh early on.
larry: same thing happened to me. the first week of vo2 i averaged 4.2watt/kg (over 120%) for the 4 intervals, but this week i could not do that for all 4, just 1 out of 4. we all got some rest during test week and then you had the extra weeks rest with travel, so your body was rested and strong. definitely take it, but be ready to adjust next week.
the cool part is that it gets REALLY easy to then hold 100% after these Vo2 intervals, despite varied VO2 IF's between 115-130%.
GH
Jane
jane: lucky. i want to see that documentary, but haven't had the chance. don't forget to update me about the 13.1, i only need you to remember upto the point where you started worrying about your ankles. my question, re-framed might help jog your memory:
after the gun goes off, do you enter the trails less than a mile after?
if the answer is yes, then that's all i need to know. i got all the rest covered.
thanks!!!
gh
doc was really good - man I love Jens Voigt - he is one tough SOB. and Big George. Okay, lemme look at the map.
GH - okay, you start south on N Arroyo and then you get into the trails JUST before you go under the ventura hwy. all trails out and back to N Arroyo, then you loop around the rose bowl, going N, and then past tennis courts, and onto trails again.
water near orange grove and madeline? um no. you are on the trails either jusr before Holly or the Hwy.
oh yeah, did yesterday's 4x120% - holy crapola. good work out!!
@ Jane - I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I'm sure the snow has hit Toronto by now. It started here about 3 pm local time yesterday and stopped about 1 pm today. so 22 straight hours. We got about 20 inches officially but I had a 4 foot drift at my front door and gargage by the time it stopped. Shoveled for 3 hours. Thank goodness my neighbor came by with the snowblower or I'd still be out there. Did the VO2 run on dreadmill. Wasn't sure how I'd feel after shoveling but it was ok. Was able to hit the paces and HR zones and maintain form.
@ Gilberto - Yes it is fun to run in the snow (when it is 1-3 inches deep, not so fun when deeper than that). Actually quite refreshing for a Z1 type of run. Just have to be careful of the footing so you don't slip. Good luck with the race this weekend. Sounds like you are really prepared and I'm sure you won't have to worry about snow in SoCal.
@ Melissa - good job with you bike VO2. Sounds like you had the same time warp experience I did. Bet you didn't know you had the power to stop time.
@ Paul - I too have the same problem with estimating the right pace when I run outdoors. Usually too fast, then I slow down too much. But getting better at it. It is much easier on the dreadmill. I just dial it up to speed i want and hang on.
Good luck everybody with your training.
great, thanks jane!
scott: see a few messages down in my response to larry. basically, take the >120% while you can. if your ftp is accurate, then you'll eventually settle into 120% once the workouts accumulate. you are currently fresh from testing so your body is rested and strong. thanks for the good wishes!
just finished vo2 run and was going well throughout. 68 seconds for last 400m, but still came in 3rd place.
tomorrow another vo2 bike session and then just limber up for sunday.
train safe and warm.
gh
Gilberto, thanks for the advice on getting through the intervals. It definitely makes sense. When I zone out like that I tend to do better, rather then let my body and mind get freaked out at the fact that holy c%^* there's another minute and a half left?!
well I almost puked during my last 2.5 on the bike today. Just as I thought this morning was rough based on how hard I went yesterday. Took twice as long to warm up, then just did 10 minutes spin after the last interval and was toast and called it a workout.
have always loved pushing hard on the bike. REALLY looking forward to stretching and core work tomorrow.
nice work paul.
melissa & everyone: i think this is the first time the vo2 sessions for 2.5min have been put in the OS, so data on how most people improve is forthcoming. if you look at the dashboard, matt samojeden (hope i got his last name spelled right), gives a preview of preliminary results from the november group. also, i think there's a thread with attic/roof/ceiling in the title in the forum action that might have some info from coach p. i haven't read these posts yet, but here's my take:
-if prior to the OS, you were sedentary, then the first 8 weeks of threshold brought about big jumps in FTP, not likely matched by the next testing after VO2 max.
-if prior to the OS you were in top form, the the threshold work was basically more of the same and the jump or drop (in my case!
) in FTP was less pronounced. if you are in this group, then the jump in FTP after the vo2max will be significant.
basically, our bodies need the change in stressor to illicit change. CHANGE is the key for recruitment of more muscle fibers and adaptations to lactate threshold. psychologically, the vo2max frees you to go out and see what type of power or pace you can generate. once you see these numbers, then you'll want to see them again. technique is also aided with VO2 sessions because you just can't get thru a complete set of intervals without relaxing and focusing on form.
Jane: i emailed the race directors and they apologized, thanked me (you) for pointing this out and have since corrected it on the web...although the fact that i am the only the one who pointed this out one week before the race worries me!
good thing i know the course. i am envisioning people getting lost everywhere.
GH
oh yeah, one more thing:
once we all reach our A race, then the cummulative effect of the threshold and vo2 work will get us to the best FTP, so don't worry about the jumps (or drops!) at each testing session. in the end, it all works out positively if you follow the plan.
over and out, gh
I rocked the run intervals last night in an ice-laden Central Park. And didn't even slip and fall on black ice!
Now for the bike tonight...hmmm. If only I could wake up for these sessions in the morning.
@GH, thanks for all of your helpful insight and good luck this weekend.
@ Larry - You are a true hardcore New Yorker - running intervals on ice, at night, in Central Park. Be careful of the ice as it can send you flying out of control so fast. I usually run in the am while it is still dark, and slipped/fell twice last winter (goy my fingers crossed as I haven't fallen this winter yet). Be especially careful on turns as your foot will go out sideways and you end up doing the splits, smashing your knee or worse. Be safe.
@ Gilberto - This morning I tried the advice you gave Melissa about constant pedal pressure on the VO2 intervals. It worked and I felt smoother. Still very hard on the 3rd one but at least it wasn't a near death experience like on Tuesday. Thanks so much for sharing all your running and biking knowledge and wisdom with all of us noobs. Really looking forward to meeting you in person @ CDA.
@ Melissa - I've the same experience as you since I've got a running background. The run intervals are tough but doable, but bike VO2 intervals are another story. Guess we know what we need to work on. Hang in there.
GH, you were correct. Earlier in the week was definitely a fluke from last week's rest on the 2.5 On / 2.5 Off. Much harder last night. I had my first "I feel like I need to vomit" session of the OS.
Everyone have a good weekend.
Now, who is rooting for Pitt and who is rooting for GB?
good to hear everyone is doing well. the thanks and encouragent is definitely appreciated.
let's see...greenbay or pittsburg?...i used to play football and followed it more back in the day, but i have no current connection to either team...oh, wait! my good friend's brother lives in pittsburg and really likes it there...i root for pittsburg!
gh