Home OutSeason December 2010 Group Discussion-OutSeason December 2010

V02 Max to the max!

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  • I have to say Green Bay - my dad was a HS football coach in the 60s, 70's and 80's and Vince Lombardi was a god/sage in our household.

    In fact I still espouse the saying my dad borrowed from the coach now - "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" and "If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm." and "the dictionary is the only place where success comes before work"

    Go Packers!
  • I can't say that I'm a fan of either the Packers or the Steelers, but since the Steelers beat my Seahawks in the Superbowl a few years ago I'm going for the Packers.
  • okay - today's 75' workout done in 94' - jeese! rocked it though - man, I am sure I burn a 1000 calories or so. Will do the run this aft - off to a kid's play with Eleanor, then girl's night tonight as Dad is working.
  • Steelers!!  Got some good college buddies from Pittsburgh, and being from Chicago, we don't like the Packers.

    @Scott - I just noticed that you are doing IMCDA.  Me too, and so is Gilberto.  My brother is also doing CDA.  Looking forward to meeting you at the race.

    @Gilberto - Good luck with your race tomorrow.  Have fun.

    Did the bike wo this am.  Riding intervals at Z4 and Z3 sure seemed easier (even if longer) than the VO2 wo earlier in the week.  Jumped off the bike to do the run.  No problem.  Then I decided to test the waters.  45'of easy swimming working on technique.  Felt like a boat anchor, but at least I didn't sink.

  • Week 10 long bike and brick done. Bike was just a touch longer than 75 minutesimage. Bike 1:50 min IF .92. 2 x 20 at .97, .97. 4 x 2.5 at 1.21,1.22,1.22,1.23. 2 x 15 at .86 and .86. Followed by a lovely 25 min run at Z3/Z2. I must say that bike workout was the toughest bike workout I have ever done. Still kinda new to EN, so hoping that work does in fact work. Run tomorrow will be interesting.
  • you all are monsters with these vo2 workouts!

    i'll sprinkle in some vo2 intervals tomorrow during my 13.1 (70%trail).  thanks again for all the encouragement.

    so, i went for a very easy run on a part the course today.  perfect weather.  no watch. no shirt.  just wanted to appreciate the trail and notice things i don't usually notice when focusing on pace, etc.  i was remembering comments from bruce and melissa about feeling better on run vo2 sessions (vs. on the bike) due to their running background.  melissa had mentioned soccer and i recalled that the raramuri (read Born to Run!) play a game where they kick a ball along the trails while they run.  i have never played either game, so, i decided to try kicking around some rocks while i ran today...

    eureka!!  i was totally able to do it without breaking stride and it drove home a very important point for me regarding the importance of technique in being able to do what we do efficently, while avoidng injury, especially when going at vo2max speed.

    it's hard to run and kick something without breaking stride, unless the grounded foot is directly under your center of gravity.  tough to spot and then make an accurate pass to a teammate in soccer, while running AND kicking a ball, without that center of gravity in place and without an upright head and torso. the result is perfect running posture and balance.  so, when it's time to run vo2style, then 'runners' who run like this or close to this, can get through the sessions without being limited by inefficient movement.  if in addition to this, your feet are strong, from walking and running in minimalist shoes, then the whole package is there for endless running.

    i am certain the same applies to bike and swim, but i haven't had the eureka moment yet in those disciplines. although i am already starting to notice certain things.  once i test the theories and techniques on myself, i'll share with the group.

    so, try jogging and kicking something without breaking stride at your convenience and it should help you correct posture, stride length, eventually make you fast and less prone to injury.

    if all the above was obvious to you before, i apologize!

    GH

     

     

     

  • @Bruce, I'm looking forward to meeting you and Gilberto as well at IMCDA. Over the past few months, I've noticed a lot of posts on the Dashboard of people talking about IMCDA, so I think we should have a pretty big group there.

    @Gilberto, that's an interesting observation. I've been running for several years, but never while kicking anything. I might have to try that out.

    By the way, when are the two of you transitioning from the OS plan to the Ironman plan for IMCDA? We don't really have enough weeks to do a full 20 week OS and the full 12 week Ironman plan. I was thinking that I might transition in early March in order to get in some longer bike rides and runs before I do Oceanside in April. Although I might do a hybrid plan in March instead by doing FTP intervals during the week and longer workouts on the weekend, but I haven't decided yet. I need to make sure I'm ready for Oceanside because those hills on the bike are a killer.
  • footing was so terrible today that I could only do 2 of 3 one mile repeats - like running in sand. did them on HR, but after the second one my right knee felt really unstable. 2 x 1 M @ 8:28 (but HR in Z4 @157) and then 7:57 (HR 160). sigh.

    On the up side, I caught the TT prologue for the Tour of Qatar this morning and saw Heinrich Haussler my favourite rider!

    GH - looking fwd to your race report!
  • hi everyone:

    14th person overall out of 667;

    12th male overall out of 377;

    2nd in 35-39age group, 57 in my group;

    time: 1:34:56; pace 7:15.

    perfect weather and conditions.  i definitely didn't leave anything out on the course.  started fast and slowed, but even if i had paced it in reverse, i think i would have ended the same.  so, i am very satisfied.

    trail running is cool and i like that you have to run strategically vs. just drag racing.  i hope incorporate more of it in the OS.

    finishing inside the bowl was cool, especially since i train around it all the time and went to undergrad and medschool at UCLA (i.e. home field).  i wish they didn't put a tarp on the part we run on though.  felt like i was running into a crime scene!  once i crossed the line though, i found a nice spot of grass and plopped myself down to enjoy the stadium.

    thanks for all the support!  i need a nap and then back to the OS on tuesday.

    over and out.

    GH

     

  • GH, nice work, congrats!

    Did my run today, a little icy but overall ok. 60 minutes 7.4 miles 2 x .5, 2 x 1 at Z4 and another mile at Z3. A little suprised I did it and held paces after yesterdays bike.
  • thanks, bill.

    scott: i plan to depart from the dec OS on March 27th, then one transition week, and start the race prep on april 4th.  i too look forward to meeting you all at CdA.  my younger brother will be racing as well.  his first IM distance race.  by the way, i used the kicking ball (actually a rock) technique for my warm up for the race today and it was great! depending on how the rock rolled, i had to speed up or shift left or right to get it back on track each time.  a great all encompassing warm up, especially for a trail run.

    ok, now it's definitely nap time.

    safe training to all.

    gh

     

     

  • @ Bill - Nice run today.  Sounds like you're gettng stronger. 

    @ GH - Congrats on your race.  Way to go!!   A great result overall and for AG.  And thanks for your reflections on running and kicking.  I've never thought about it that way but is sure makes sense.  I'll try it. 

    @ Scott - I've got a half marathon (March Madness) scheduled for 3/20 as my last day of OS (16 weeks).  I'm shooting for a PR of 1:40 so I'm not nearly as fast as Gilberto.  It's on a very hilly course (for IL) and many of my Boston marathon friends are running it as a final marathon tune up.  Then I'll do 2 weeks of transition and then 12 week IM plan.  Since IMCDA will be my first IM, I am concerned about having enough time to build up the distance, but I'm going to trust RnP's plan for the most part.  I've already  started adding some distance, especially on the bike since that is my weakness.   Yesterday, I did the bike MS and then rode 5 X 15' @ Z3 for a total ride of 2.5 hours.  Legs were toast yesterday afternoon, so I wasn't sure how the run would go this am.  Surprisingly, legs felt fine this am and I was able to do the run wo on dreadmill 3x800 (3') + 1x1600 all at Z4 pace of 6:45.  Then did 4 more @ 7:30 pace.  Time to rest.

    @ Jane - Nice run in tough conditions.  You're building mental toughness. 

    Go Steelers.  Need to come alive as they are down 14-3 right now.

    A good week to all!!

  • So how many people did the Week 10 Saturday work out this past week? 2x20' (z4) followed by 4x2.5ON/OFF followed by 2x15'(z3) followed bya stroll in the park? All I can say is I do not remember being that tired after a work out! It was basically a Bike Test followed by VO2 Max plus another hour of quality work. [Finish complaining here.]

  • @ Gilberto, nice job! That's an awesome result, you must be pleased. I like your impromptu soccer kick-arounds while running. It's an interesting theory. For myself, I had boiled it down to the fact that I am better at telling my body to shut up when sprinting starts to hurt - since soccer can be very anaerobic. I just don't have that history with biking and when the pain starts I am much more likely to fold on the bike. But I definitely like your idea on kicking and running, at the very least it gives your mind something to focus on besides the pain/monotony of the run.

    @Bruce....tough loss....I grew up 30 miles from Green Bay and can only imagine the craziness that is going on there now. We don't have cable, but we had to go out and buy rabbit ears to pick up the game (still in HD!). Would have been sacrilege to miss it.

    Finished the bike brick today and felt ok. My legs are pretty tired now though and I am seriously dreading saturdays workout. YIKES!
  • @ GH, good job on the half mary! Second in your age group is legit.

    @ Bruce, I also was wondering if 12 weeks is really enough time to build up for an Ironman, but RnP know a lot more about this stuff then I do. Plus I'll be transitioning over a little earlier to get ready for Oceanside.

    @ Larry, nice job getting that saturday workout done! I'm just starting week 10 and looked ahead to my saturday workout, and it's not nearly has bad. 2x10' and 1x6' at z4, then 2x15' at z3. I'm a little surprised that there is FTP and Vo2 intervals in the same workout. Anyways, nice job.
  • Straight from the plan:

    2 x 20' (4') @ 95-100%/Z4/Hard. Then 4 x (2.5' ON, 2.5' OFF) ON = 120%/Z5/Very Hard OFF = 65%/Z1/Easy Then 2 x 15' (2') @ 80-85%/Z3/Mod-Hard

    Needless to say - it took more than 75 minutes! SAU used that day.

  • traininig a bit mixed up - thurs bike today. really great 4 x 2.5 @ 120% + and rocked it to thesufferfest's Fight Club. So cool to "ride"with Cancellara and Cuddles at the end. I *may* have exceeded Z3 at that point! :-)

     

    Great job Gh!

  • thanks guys/gals and great work with the vo2 work.

    i start again today, but haven't looked at the workouts yet.

    scott and bruce:  just keep at it and the 12 weeks will be enough.  especially, with this being your first IM.  RnP have taken into account the time you'll need for adaptation to the training stress over the OS and race prep.  after CdA and a couple of seasons, you can start evaluating what sort of hacks to the OS might be helpful, but for now just keep plugging away.  definitely, listen or watch the accompanying resources (podcasts, pdfs) for the training plan and race execution during this period, don't just do the workouts.

    safe training to all.

     

    gh

  • Well, what did everyone else think of the workout from hell! Holy cow.

    But I did it, and I killed every single frickin interval. And now I am going to eat an entire pound of pasta, 8 apples and a chocolate cake. not really, but I could eat a horse.

    okay so the bike - did the 2 x 20' at more than my Z4 watts- I couldn't help it. I am now doing 90+ cadence and going slower on a harder gear feels wrong. So I stayed pushed but comfy. My HR was in range.

    I had planned to only do 2 x 2.5', but I did all 4 - I have this great training video which has Koppenberg, Alp D'huez and other climbs and attacks on it (thesufferfest.com), so that really helped. my 120% is supposed to be 194 W, I was a bit all over with these 190/196/191/198

    then instead of doing 2 x 15' I just did a straight 30' in Z3 - about 10' from the end I thought I was going to fall off the bike - serious bonking. I've only been taking water, so note to self about having some gu on hand (thanks Elly for opening them and passing them to me!)

    And then I thought, my god, can I actually do that run in Z2 and then Z3 which in new zone land is 8:25 and 8:07 miles. The answer is Yep. I kinda reversed them and the first half I did 7:46s and then 8:01s.

    Here's the thing - I felt bad about missing those workouts this week, but it's been compounded by my weight. I know I"ve gained and I am afraid to get on the scales. But you know, if I can haul my lardy butt at 8:01s after a 2 hour bike on sheer mental power, I think I am gonna be okay.

    Thanks for the love, guys.

    Jane
  • Week 11 for me, after last week this week was like Koolaid image Nice and smooth . I'm a happy guy. Looking forward to some wine and time with Terri on this Valentine weekend....
  •  @Jane:  I am feeling sort of crushed after the Coach Rich 75' bike workout that was actually 124'.  Managed to do the 2x20' at .98, the 2.5' at 1.2, and the 2x15' at .85.  Hopefully, will have some legs left for the run tomorrow.  

  • I know, how'd you like that coach rich math? my ride was 111' sheesh.
  • I don't even look at RnP's time numbers for the bike sessions anymore. They usually aren't even close to being accurate and results in negative SAUs.
  • @Larry - wise man!



    Today's run - well, I am back!



    2 x 1/2 miles target 7:53s, did 7:22/7:57, so have to work on that pacing a bit.



    2 x 1 mile @ 7:33 and then 7:27. overachieving a bit, but after the down week I've had, the cold temps and lousy footing last week, I felt like a gamboling lamb. Well, a 50 year old gamboling lamb.



    Nature note: first cardinal sighting of the spring!

    Moment of truth - time to get on scale. 141.5 - wow. Very nice, only 1.5 lbs up from my last weigh in and not nearly as fat as I thought I was!! Phew!

  • All workouts done for the week!! Did all wkos according to plan and hit all numbers, another week in the books. Thought the bike yesterday after last weeks 2 x 20 and 4 x 2.5 would be much easier. It wasn't, well maybe a little but not much. Temps supposed to be in the mid/high 50s all week so hopefully will get some of the bike workouts in Week 12 done outside.

    Have a good and productive week everyone.
  • Nice work everybody.   People are sticking to the plan and making it count.

    @ Jane - Seems like you've bounced back from your mid-week funk with some solid workouts.  Way to go.  Also, remember that muscle weighs more than fat and you clearly are getting stronger muscles with your improvements on both the bike and run.

    @ Larry - Agree.  I don't look at RnP's total time anymore either.  Just do the warm up, then the main set.  The time will be what it is.  However, I  have added some extra bike sets of 15' @ Z3 since the bike is my weakness.  Program seems to be working as I can ride a bigger gear in Z3 now than I could at the start of OS. 

    Finally a nice day to run outside in Chicago.  Temp @ 7 am was 34*F.  I did  a 3 mile wu @8:30 pace, then 2x1/2 mile @ 6:55 pace, 1x 1 mile @ 6:55 then 3 x 1/3 mile up a steep hill @ 7:05 pace.  Those hills nearly killed me.   Finished with 4 flat miles @ 7:50, 7:55, 7:55 and 7:40 pace.  Total run 12.0 miles in 95 minutes, avg 7:55 pace.  I've got a half mary in 5 weeks on a hilly course (Cary March Madness) so I'm adding some distance and hills to the Sunday run.

    Good luck everybody on the coming week's efforts.

  • thanks for the encouragement Bruce - although a pound of fat weighs the same as a pound of muscle - one pound!! I expect Muscle is denser than fat. The fact is, I simply have a sweet tooth and no off switch! :-)
  • Jane, You crack me up. 

    One would never know from your last post that you were struggling this week!

    That Saturday bike workout with 2 x 20 then 4 x 2.5/2.5, then 2 x 15' is epic, is it not?  So much fun hearing about your workout Jane.

    I actually cut the z3's on that workout back from 15s to 10s to try to stay within the Coach Rich math.  You guys are much more committed!

    I am happy with my 2 x 2 mile runs today in 14:14 then 14:00.  My VDOT was validated today with what I did on my 1/19 5k test so I am feeling dialed in.  That last VDOT test seemed too fast and I was worried that it was a fluke or my watch was miscalibrated.  Instead the conclusion is:  Work works! Yeah.

    Everyone enjoy the Monday off and this weeks training.  I am getting back in the pool on President's Day since I have a Sprint Tri on 4/16 and want some sessions in the pool before then.

    Scott

     

     

     

  • Guys you rock and are doing great.

    I seem to have hit a wall and neither workout this weekend went well. Seem to have hit a wall and had a hard time even making the 2X20 at 100% FTP, cut both short and then bagged the 4X 2.5:2.5.

    the run seemed even harder, so ended cutting it back too. really depressing since thing seemed to have been flying along until this weekend.

    I only have 4 more weeks til I drop into the last 6 weeks of the HIM plan to build to the first A race April 30 ... ... ...

    need to get my head back int he game.

  • @ Paul, I wouldn't sweat one or two bad workouts. Everyone has them; or is it just you and me? Seriously, maybe an extra day off would do you some good long term?

    Larry
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