Swimming Expectations
So I'm not a great swimmer (or cyclist or runner for that matter). In training, I do 50's in about 1:00. My HIM swim time was 56 mins. (Yes I actually swim slower when racing to keep breathing nice and easy)
So knowing my swim sucks almost as bad as I run, I decided I should probably work on it. I did a swim clinic, plus an underwater swim analysis and learned I pretty much have no catch. Great learning, problem solved, right? Well, my swim TT was about 45 secs slower than last year, no big deal to me. But my first real swim WKO last night was quite disheartening. I was slower AND less efficient (my watch calculates) and got worse with each set! I was focusing on using my forearms more, pointing fingertips down to really have a catch, vs. dragging my arm through the water as previous. (Video here for reference of "before" stroke)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dstX...AAAAAAAAAA
So the question is, do changes to your stroke require some time to "settle in" and feel natural and therefore see positive changes? Or should I see the impact of a change like that from stroke one?
Thanks!
Comments
I'm not a terribly good swimmer myself, but since it's so technique oriented, I can offer some advice from my experience as a musician (violinist). I find that learning technique can be a pretty non-linear process in terms of the progress you make when you start out. When I first start out learning something new, it feels awkward and I'm not very good at it even though I'm fully aware of what I *should* be doing. The first few practice sessions might feel strange and that I'm not really progressing, but one day *BAM* it magically clicks and I'm much better at it. Rinse and repeat. Your results may vary, but just give it time.
I also find that frequency is pretty good at enforcing technique learning, as opposed to say, banging out a looong workout. I personally like to keep my technique sessions short and frequent, as I find I hit the point of diminishing returns in how much my body can learn and adapt if I spend too much time working on it in a single session.
Hardly the fastest kid in the pool but last season I really worked at it. watched a ton of videos online to include the EN eBook. watched the videos a lot. I kept trying new things in the pool. Most of these things felt wierd at first but then gradually felt more normal. When you are used to swimming with BAD form Good form will feel weird at first. At least it did for me. one thing that stuck out to me that your video coach didn't address was your kick. In some shots it looked like your feet were a little too wide apart. This could be some low hanging fruit to focus on too. Last season I tried to take my feet out of the equation as much as possible. Only for balance. Big Toes rubbing together was my queue. If I didn't do that my Kick which was supposed to make me go faster was actually just acting as a big DRAG...This was something where I noticed a time difference right away. Stream lined the back half of my body and I got faster in the water. Also, when I started keeping my head down, I instantly got faster. Tried to breath with one eye still under the water looking at the lane line next to me...This was my queu for that.
I think your off to a great start with getting the video done. Don't worry about your TT results right now and keep working on the form. Keep watching videos and trying to improve.
Kim, like any exercise your body needs to learn some muscle memory and adapt to a new technique. That stated, improvements in swimming stroke efficiency should almost be immediately noticeable at least for short durations and then longer durations as you build muscle memory and endurance. I'm going to assume you still might not have corrected some things you think you may have corrected.
Doing 50's in 1:00 is pretty much average by triathlete standards (and I mean that as a compliment here). Is that yards or meters? Either way that would extrapolate to a 39-42 minute HIM swim assuming a similar pace. That would mean your race pace is 40% slower. Taking it easy on the swim to keep yourself calm and collected is one thing but swimming 40% slower is another. There are other forces at work there. Do you do longer sets (like 500's) or straight set swims? What are those paces? My n=1 is that my endurace suffers if I focus too much on short sets. Once again, that's my personal experience. Swimming 50's at whatever pace means nothing if you can't make it through 1.2 miles without gassing or having your mechanics completely fall apart. I think you have an endurance problem first and foremost. Yes, you have stroke issues and other kinks to work through as well which are more important in the long run. Short term is to keep plugging away and get your endurance where it needs to be and you might be surprised that some of the stroke issues start to work themselves out as well.
It's hard to say what transpired in your swim session without seeing what you are doing with your stroke now. It could very well be that you're making the changes correctly and it will take some time for your muscles to adjust and adapt and find a way to make the stroke smooth. That process can be frustrating, or as I tell my swimmers "The first step to change is noticing when you're doing something wrong, but you can't always fix it at that stage. It's important to tell yourself that simply *noticing* is part of the process of change."
That being said, I do think if you are doing the high elbow catch correctly it should immediately feel more powerful and more efficient. At least that's the way it typically shakes out with swimmers who I am coaching and helping to change to this style of catch. I haven't seen someone do it correctly and have it be slower and less efficient. Sometimes it is frustrating, tiring, or difficult because they're using new muscles, but it usually isn't slower, if that makes sense.
Also, if you don't mind me giving my two cents as a swim coach, while I think that the coach doing your video is absolutely correct about your catch, and also about your body roll, I think that putting his focus (and yours) there, is like trying to change the frosting on a cake when you left out the eggs in the first place. In other words, you have a bigger, more fundamental problem at the heart of your stroke that is affecting all of this. Let me explain.
The issue here is that your kick is timed completely the opposite of what it should be. You are kicking a "downbeat" or strong left kick, which coincides with the full extension of your left arm and a right downbeat kick that coincides with the full extension of your right arm. The net effect of this same-side kick-arm combo is that your body rolls from side to side. This not only makes it very difficult to get a proper catch (because the elbow and shoulder on the dropped side are already too low to start with) but it adds a LOT of drag. Trying to change your catch without changing this fundamental issue is, IMHO, just going to set you up for difficulty and frustration.
Here is your right kick timed with your right arm extension, rolling you onto your right hip
Here is your left kick timed with your left arm extension, rolling you onto your left hip:
In contrast, here are two photos of swimmers who are showing the proper kick timing of a left downbeat kick with a right arm extension, and vice versa:
As you can see from these photos, when the downbeat kick comes from the opposite leg, the hips are stabilized and do not over-rotate. Instead, the torso reaches out of the hips, opening slightly to the side, but not nearly as much as most people think. I tell my swimmers not to think about "rotating" AT ALL. Instead, get the kick timing right, and think of REACHING for the far wall. When you reach, and when your opposite leg is timed to kick with that reach, you will get a great arm extension without an over-rotation of the hips. This keeps you streamlined without wallowing around in the water, keeps your hips high instead of allowing them to dip, and prevents you from dropping the shoulder and arm on the reaching side, allowing you to achieve a high elbow catch.
Now I'm not going to lie to you: kick timing is tricky to work on. And it's poorly understood by a lot of coaches who try to fix the more easily changeable surface traits of the swim stroke. But trying to do this without working on the underpinnings of the kick timing and the ensuing body position is rarely very successful. When I have my swimmers work on changing their kick timing, I usually have them work with a pull buoy and just focus on one leg at a time, trying to just time the left kick with the right arm stroke. Then go to work on the right kick. This can take several swim sessions to get down. Once you get it though, everything else will fall into place so much easier.
It's hard to say just from what you've shown and described here, but I'm guessing that perhaps the reason why you're finding it hard to achieve an effective high elbow catch is that you're over-rotated and rolled onto your side. It's almost impossible to get that high elbow from that position. If you have access to a swim coach, have them work with you on the kick timing and perhaps it will make it easier to achieve a better catch down the line.
Yeah... what Robin said.
Nate- Will def. make a date with the swim ebook!
Bob- Wow that is really slow. I never looked at the times that way. I typically do whatever sets the EM plan tells me to do so I'm assuming there are some endurance sets in there, but i'll make a point of even modifying further to work on that.
John- I can't guarantee I won't look at all, but i won't give it any thought.
Robin- Thank you so much for the feedback! It is very insightful. I am looking into a swim coach as we speak. I'm also hoping there will be some assistance from the coach at my tri swim group as well. I think someone else had mentioned my kick as well, and when I was swimming, I did feel my kick was a little "whacked". I can't say that I was making the improvement on my catch properly, but to your poiint, I was "noticing" what I was doing more. I definitely have some work to do in the pool.
Thanks everyone! I'll let you know how it goes. Swim WKO in the plan for today....
@ Robin: Let me know next time you are in the Cincinnati area and I would like to hire you for private swim lessons!
Robin, me too! I'm in same boat as Nate!!!! Thx for the very informative post!
I'm seeing votes for WSM of the month ... ...
I was doing the same thing re: trying to recall my timing.
2x on the WSM
As the saying goes... numbers don't lie. Your WKO pace is much, much faster than your race pace. A little faster or a little slower is fine. 40% is either taking it way too easy or you're working way too hard in training.
To riff off of Robin's post - do you swim with a pull buoy at all? A video with the pull buoy would isolate your swim stroke from the kick. That way we could tell if it's the kick throwing a monkey wrench into your stroke mechanics or if everything about your swim is funky.
Also, thinking of the physics behind what Robin said - it makes perfect sense. When you run, you lead with opposing appendages, right? Left foot goes forward with right arm and vice versa. So why would we swim with the same sides exerting force at the same time? Try walking like that - not natural, right? I guess if you swim using right kick with right stroke, you also eliminate most of your core's ability to engage during the stroke, too.
Granted, I'm a super crummy swimmer, so this is all just theory. I never seem to get below 1:55/100 T-pace. I recently started working with a local swim coach who's been helping me once a week. Turns out I basically have NO glide. I used to take 24 strokes/length. She's got me down to 19 which actually feels slower right now to me, but I think it may speed me up in the long run.
Robin - has anyone ever had the problem with starting to kick way more frantically when they lengthen their stroke (slow it down)? I feel like now that I'm "gliding" longer, I'm also kicking way faster to somehow compensate. That may not make any sense - it's just the feeling I'm getting. Sorry for thread-jacking Kim's question, but when I see "swim coach" in someone's post, I tend to get a little excited. ;-)
One other observation. on my screen saver I have the IMLP swim start shot. You can learn a lot just buy looking at that photo. Count the heads of people who are looking up, a few people looking behind them (what reason do you have to look behind you) . I imagine most folks are looking up because they just got bumped and they felt the need to SEE what just happend...I say, keep your head down, and keep on swimming...
07/24/11 (IMLP) 2.4 Total Time= 1:09:00 Pace in Yards=1:38 Pace in M=1:47
07/01/11 (RR in a pool) 2.4 Total Time=1:18:00 Pace in Yards=1:51 Pace in M=2:01
06/07/11 (RR in a pool) 2.4 Total Time=01:13:00 Pace in Yards=1:44 Pace in M=1:53
05/31/11 TT Swim Test= 1000Yards 00:16:30 Pace in Yards=1:39 Pace in M=1:48
04/01/11 Swim Test= 1000Yards 00:17:15 Pace in Yards=1:44 Pace in M=1:53
03/02/11 Swim Test=1000 00:17:13 Pace in Yards=1:43 Pace in M=1:53
Robin, and Kim, thanks for this. Like others, I can't wait to get into the pool this Sunday, strap on the pull buoy, and think about the timing of my two-beat kick. A problem with traithlon is most of us are not very good swimmers, so even a mediocre swimmer like me is able to come out of the water very near the front of his AG. Add in a wet suit, and I've never paid any attention to my kick. But since my accident sapped at least 10% of my upper extremity strength, I have begun to fear the swim, and have been trying to re-build it, with little success. I guess its time to start at the bottom (my feet) and work up.
If I'm training for wetsuit legal races I do 95% of my swimming with a pull buoy. I could give a flip about my kick if I have a wetsuit on... and so should probably 97% of people in any given wetsuit legal triathlon. You will see pros, top AG swimmers kicking in a wetsuit but it's because they know how to do it and understand the difference between kicking with and without a wetsuit. Kicking in a wetsuit is actually counterproductive for just about everyone else. It actually creates more drag and hydrodynamic penalty then just letting your legs/feet float along as you pull through the swim. A little kick here or there for body alignment is fine but kicking for propulsion should only be done if you know what you're doing.
@ Bob - I agree 100%. For DECADES, I swam freestyle with a pull buoy (I was a competitivce breaststroker, and found up and down kicking confusing). But these darn races in Hawaii don't allow wetsuits, so I'm finally having to learn how to achieve proper balance in the water without that crutch. Meaning, I've been _pulling_ instead of _swimming_ when I do the crawl, so I have to unlearn 50+ years of habit, it seems. "Old dog, new tricks ... grumble, grumble, grumble."
I have admittedly become more of a puller than a swimmer as of late but it makes more sense for what I'm currently training for. I'll switch gears after the Syracuse 70.3 as I train for the Houston Tri as that will be non-wetsuit and then switch gears again to prep for IMAZ which will be wetsuit.
Your events are Rev3 Quassy, Rev3 Maine, and IMFL. All wetsuit swims. You see where I'm going with this???
And to Nate's previous point, I'm one of those "stoppers" which probably 'splains my slower race times vs. training. Luckily my cousin jsut bought a lake house so I can get in more open water practice!
YES! Time to embrace the wetsuit. It really does help and would probably work miracles for someone like yourself who has a flaw or two in your stroke.
What trepidations do you have about wearing a wetsuit?
@ Robin
I just got out of the pool and did try this. I'm a 87 92 golf swimmer the last 6 weeks I've been in the pool and that is in meters. Today I got an 82 - 85 for my 4 set of swim golf. As in anything new it will take some to get use to but the improvement was evident. Pulling together descending 200s it was a chore to hold that form but I got to hand it to you this may be my missing link.
Time will tell, Thx David....
Ooooh, I have always wanted to see Maine!
But seriously, I would be more than happy to go anywhere and do a swim clinic for EN members. I would only need to cover my airfare and have a couch or spare bedroom I could crash in.
RE: Wetsuits and pull buoys. I mostly agree that triathletes in wetsuits don't need to kick much. The operative word there is "much" because even in a wetsuit most people's body position still creates some drag if they are not kicking. And if the kick is not timed correctly, their hips will be rolling all over the place, their elbow will be dropping and they won't be able to get an effective purchase on the water. So a good well-timed two beat kick is your best friend in a wetsuit. It keeps your feet and hips high, provides a minimal amount of propulsion, drives correct torso rotation for power in the stroke.
Think of it this way: If you don't kick at all and stabilize your hips, your hips are rotating WITH your arm stroke to a greater or lesser degree. If you have good core strength, you can keep them fairly stable even with a pull buoy. But most triathletes do not, and their hips wallow around while pulling or swimming in a wetsuit.
Do this: Stand up and pretend to bat a baseball, throw a football, or swing a golf club. On each of these activities, rotate your hips exactly as far as you rotate your shoulders. Do you have any power at all? I thought not. The only way you achieve power in these activities is to rotate your torso and shoulders relative to your hips, not with them. Your torso is like a giant spring, storing the power in those muscles to unleash as it releases and follows through. Your swim stroke is exactly the same way. No kick? No torso power. Now you're just swimming with your arm muscles, which are small and weak compared to the broad muscles of your lats, delts, pecs, and abs.
For Ironman and half Ironman distance events, my rule of thumb is to train 50% with pull buoy on distance sets.
One good Ironman set:
1000 Swim, 1000 Pull
500 Swim,500 Pull
250 Swim, 250 Pull, 250 Swim, 250 Pull
Rest only enough to switch out pull buoy and get a drink of water.