I'd love to do a Tahoe IM but September is no bueno for me. Doing long rides and runs in Houston during July, August and September sounds about as appealing as being tortured.
@ Tom... "Back in the day", I did a few Xterra USA champs in Tahoe in mid-late Sept. I remember the water being anout 64 or so. I also remember one year when the wind blown waves ... 4' bouncing pyramids ... Added 5 min to my 1500 time.
@ Bob et all ... And the difference between racng an IM and torture is ...?
Matt Ancona is always saying that IM Wisconsin is one of the easiest (easy being a relative concept) to KQ. Having two majors in September next year just might dilute the field a tad further if the west coast guys go to Tahoe to save some travel bucks.
Oh, Tahoe is so gorgeous -- this one makes sense, but it is going to have to be a ridiculously difficult course. Do you think they'll go Nevada side or California side? I would love, love, love to make up a bike course that involved climbing into Virginia City and Mount Rose. Tahoe Rim run course? That lake is cold! Cold! And I know the further out you get, the colder it gets -- so that could be a gear challenge, depending on how they set up the swim course.
My daughter is getting married there in July so I will be able to do a recon ride and run. I hope the decision will be made prior to IM Canada so I can know if I am redoing Canada or Tahoe. Ironman in September means killer training weather for those of us in the Northwest. I'm in!
Ouch! Just looked up the elevation of Lake Tahoe....6224 feet. That means thin air, good for hitting a baseball bad for oxygen intake. Looks like a training week at the Truscott Estate in Snowmass, CO will have to happen. What say you Al?
I did a Sprint race at Tahoe last September, and all I remember was: - Water: it was fookin' cold. I mean cold. The lake I swam in yesterday was 56 and this was colder than that. I'm guessing 53? Ice-cream headache cold. - Elevation: Made everything 100% harder - Hills: lots of 'em
Still, it's a beautiful place, no doubt about it. The lake is so clear, you see all the swimmers around you which is awesome. I think the elevation itself could really be a doozy in an Ironman race - it dehydrates you for one thing, once you've been there a couple of days. I've read that you're better off getting there the day before the race if you have that much elevation, so that the dehydration and sleeplessness doesn't have time to really affect you.
I grew up spending a lot of time in Tahoe. My grandparents had a home on the water with a boat. I would only swim (water ski or jet ski) in that lake in months without an "r" in their spelling.... May didn't count some years if there was a late Spring...
@ Steve - I will be there SOMEtime in the summer, and if IM Tahoe is on the agenda, probably the two weeks up to Labor day.
@ Rich and Patrick - if this one goes, maybe you should add it to the "EN Official IM" list, seeing as how there are East and Midwest spots (Placid and Madison), and nothing for us out here on the Edge.
"r-less" months was san suit for a bit if a swim, with suit for anything extended. "R" months was suit only, but to be fair, I was not doing work equal to an IM swim leg.
As a lady who spent a summer at Lake Tahoe in the past being a beach bum/writing her thesis a decade ago, this seems right, if not a little ambitious. The winds can make the lake choppier and colder.
"The water temperature near the surface generally cools to 40 to 50oF (4.5 to 10oC) during February and March and warms to 65 to 70oF (18 to 21oC) during August and September. Below a depth of 600 to 700 ft (183 to 213 m), the water temperature remains a constant 39oF (4.0oC)."
Thinking about it, they have to do the bike course on the California side -- the Nevada side is a truck route/too busy. So, hairpins! But, because of the hairpins! they *should* have to close the course: cars have to drive over the center line for them. I presume bike will, too. Anybody know what the situation was for the Tour of California?
Patrick did some riding out there before last years ToC and I believe he rode around the lake? We drove the west side but I was in a van and it was snowing
We used to spend vacations at Tahoe, and I'd ride around the lake each summer. Only big hill is at Emerald Bay. I didn't train as hard then, but I was probably stonger because I was 25 years younger. I remember, I was always glad I had 28 teeth on the cassette (probably a freewheel in those days). Maybe once around the lake then an out and back to truckee, and another one somewhere else? Seems like logistics will be hard - those roads are narrow, and it would be difficult to close them. The altitude will be tough - I find it difficult in St. George at my age. But how can you resist a race if you live in NCAL.
I've done the Tahoe century ride ( as rr#1) in 2008, and emerald bay is a hard hill, but there's also spooner, which is about nine miles averaging 5-6%, not too difficult but LONG.
the altitude isn't bad for the bike, but I could barely run after the ride because of the thin air.
While Absolutely beautiful, the cold water and oxygen deprivation at altitude are not to be underestimated!
Greenlit today! Race date Sept 22, 2013. Reg starts june 18th! Holy smokes the bike course looks like a good one (if you like high elevation and lots of climbing!)
September is fine for me... the altitude is another thing all together. I live at sea level, although I do have access to some rides that will take me up to 6k ft of elevation or so (Mt Laguna, Mt Palomar).
But damn. Really don't know what to do about this race. I should know better... but it's calling me.
The altitude is going to be a big obstacle for many people. I'm surprised they went ahead with it just for that reason. I live at 7000ft and frequently meet out of town runners and cyclists who suck wind big time trying to workout here. Plus there's a sweet spot with racing at higher altitudes: if you drop in for 1 day you're usually good, otherwise your body starts to adjust and you need a couple weeks to fully aclimatize. 1 day isnt feasible the way wtc runs IMs...
So bike exceeds 7K and run is at >6K feet? That sounds like one tough race! Guess there will be a run on altitude tents...
We have the Assualt on Mount Mitchell century which tops out at 6600 ft (highest peak east of Miss.) but no where to have sustained training at the altitude.
Al is probably the Man on this altitude stuff, but did a 9 day camp last July, riding over 500 miles and running over 50 miles. In my experience, you need to rely more on RPE than watts and pace, basically just not wigging out about the numbers you see realizing, duh, I'm altitude. I can't speak to the dehydration stuff (I didn't have a problem) but I did have a hard time sleeping for the first couple nights. We were staying at about 7500ft and most of the training was between 7 and 10k.
I grew up in Florida and currently live about 2 blocks from the ocean, I therefore crown myself resident altitude training expert extraordinaire!
Sarcasm aside, and freely admitting that I am really ignorant when it comes to these matters, I want to say that ~6k of altitude is not that high? I spent some time in Tahoe this past thanksgiving, my exercise was limited to about a 5 hour hike but I didn’t feel that bad considering. Had no problems sleeping, etc, but racing an Ironman is just probably a whole different ballgame compared to my limited experiences up at Tahoe.
The figures I’ve read about acclimation are also pretty disconcerting to me, minimum of 2 weeks, 4-6 weeks for maximum benefit. Obviously these things are off the table, but I definitely may be able to arrive at altitude the weekend before the race and end up with about a week of acclimation-vacation. Do the acclimation benefits scale down at all, i.e. maybe I wouldn’t be 100% after only a week, but it wouldn’t be as bad as if I showed up 2-3 days before?
I’m definitely pretty clueless on all of this, but as IMMT has proven, I seem inexorably drawn to races that are hosted at ski resorts...
Yeah, in my experience it's not really much of an issue until you get above 7k. And then it might be a bit more of a problem for data minded folks like us because we are so attuned to seeing Number X and RPE Y. That relationship definitely changes above 7k, in my experience, and more so for the run than for the bike. But as long as you expect it and can sort things out on the fly, I think you're good.
Going at it the other way, when I race or train at lower alts I usually get something like +2 vdot bump running and +5s/100m swimming for the same RPE, so maybe you'd scale your expected pacing back that range to get similar RPE going to Tahoe? Bike seems to get less advantage,, but that maybe more about the zones we race at or the fewer muscle groups being used. If you go by HR my zones are usually 10-15 bpm higher @ 7000ft than @ sea-level. So that shifts a whole zone: my z3 FEELS like z2 down in the lowlands.
I'm going to try and register on Monday. I was planning IMC next year but this is just too beautiful to ignore. Something cool about doing the first year too. any other EN'rs definitely in?
Comments
Ow! My head hurts; too many choices! What race(s) do I do next year?
Same here. Training for IMC, IMLou or IMMoo in Columbia sux....
I've done it before, won't do it again...
@ Tom... "Back in the day", I did a few Xterra USA champs in Tahoe in mid-late Sept. I remember the water being anout 64 or so. I also remember one year when the wind blown waves ... 4' bouncing pyramids ... Added 5 min to my 1500 time.
@ Bob et all ... And the difference between racng an IM and torture is ...?
- Water: it was fookin' cold. I mean cold. The lake I swam in yesterday was 56 and this was colder than that. I'm guessing 53? Ice-cream headache cold.
- Elevation: Made everything 100% harder
- Hills: lots of 'em
Still, it's a beautiful place, no doubt about it. The lake is so clear, you see all the swimmers around you which is awesome. I think the elevation itself could really be a doozy in an Ironman race - it dehydrates you for one thing, once you've been there a couple of days. I've read that you're better off getting there the day before the race if you have that much elevation, so that the dehydration and sleeplessness doesn't have time to really affect you.
@ Dino - Is that with or without a wetsuit?
@ Steve - I will be there SOMEtime in the summer, and if IM Tahoe is on the agenda, probably the two weeks up to Labor day.
@ Rich and Patrick - if this one goes, maybe you should add it to the "EN Official IM" list, seeing as how there are East and Midwest spots (Placid and Madison), and nothing for us out here on the Edge.
As a lady who spent a summer at Lake Tahoe in the past being a beach bum/writing her thesis a decade ago, this seems right, if not a little ambitious. The winds can make the lake choppier and colder.
"The water temperature near the surface generally cools to 40 to 50oF (4.5 to 10oC) during February and March and warms to 65 to 70oF (18 to 21oC) during August and September. Below a depth of 600 to 700 ft (183 to 213 m), the water temperature remains a constant 39oF (4.0oC)."
Thinking about it, they have to do the bike course on the California side -- the Nevada side is a truck route/too busy. So, hairpins! But, because of the hairpins! they *should* have to close the course: cars have to drive over the center line for them. I presume bike will, too. Anybody know what the situation was for the Tour of California?
Interesting. A destination event, for sure.
Patrick did some riding out there before last years ToC and I believe he rode around the lake? We drove the west side but I was in a van and it was snowing
I've done the Tahoe century ride ( as rr#1) in 2008, and emerald bay is a hard hill, but there's also spooner, which is about nine miles averaging 5-6%, not too difficult but LONG.
the altitude isn't bad for the bike, but I could barely run after the ride because of the thin air.
While Absolutely beautiful, the cold water and oxygen deprivation at altitude are not to be underestimated!
Greenlit today! Race date Sept 22, 2013. Reg starts june 18th! Holy smokes the bike course looks like a good one (if you like high elevation and lots of climbing!)
http://ironmanlaketahoeca.com/course/bike/
But damn. Really don't know what to do about this race. I should know better... but it's calling me.
The altitude is going to be a big obstacle for many people. I'm surprised they went ahead with it just for that reason. I live at 7000ft and frequently meet out of town runners and cyclists who suck wind big time trying to workout here. Plus there's a sweet spot with racing at higher altitudes: if you drop in for 1 day you're usually good, otherwise your body starts to adjust and you need a couple weeks to fully aclimatize. 1 day isnt feasible the way wtc runs IMs...
So bike exceeds 7K and run is at >6K feet? That sounds like one tough race! Guess there will be a run on altitude tents...
We have the Assualt on Mount Mitchell century which tops out at 6600 ft (highest peak east of Miss.) but no where to have sustained training at the altitude.
Interesting race venue and date!
Al is probably the Man on this altitude stuff, but did a 9 day camp last July, riding over 500 miles and running over 50 miles. In my experience, you need to rely more on RPE than watts and pace, basically just not wigging out about the numbers you see realizing, duh, I'm altitude. I can't speak to the dehydration stuff (I didn't have a problem) but I did have a hard time sleeping for the first couple nights. We were staying at about 7500ft and most of the training was between 7 and 10k.
I grew up in Florida and currently live about 2 blocks from the ocean, I therefore crown myself resident altitude training expert extraordinaire!
Sarcasm aside, and freely admitting that I am really ignorant when it comes to these matters, I want to say that ~6k of altitude is not that high? I spent some time in Tahoe this past thanksgiving, my exercise was limited to about a 5 hour hike but I didn’t feel that bad considering. Had no problems sleeping, etc, but racing an Ironman is just probably a whole different ballgame compared to my limited experiences up at Tahoe.
The figures I’ve read about acclimation are also pretty disconcerting to me, minimum of 2 weeks, 4-6 weeks for maximum benefit. Obviously these things are off the table, but I definitely may be able to arrive at altitude the weekend before the race and end up with about a week of acclimation-vacation. Do the acclimation benefits scale down at all, i.e. maybe I wouldn’t be 100% after only a week, but it wouldn’t be as bad as if I showed up 2-3 days before?
I’m definitely pretty clueless on all of this, but as IMMT has proven, I seem inexorably drawn to races that are hosted at ski resorts...
Yeah, in my experience it's not really much of an issue until you get above 7k. And then it might be a bit more of a problem for data minded folks like us because we are so attuned to seeing Number X and RPE Y. That relationship definitely changes above 7k, in my experience, and more so for the run than for the bike. But as long as you expect it and can sort things out on the fly, I think you're good.
Going at it the other way, when I race or train at lower alts I usually get something like +2 vdot bump running and +5s/100m swimming for the same RPE, so maybe you'd scale your expected pacing back that range to get similar RPE going to Tahoe? Bike seems to get less advantage,, but that maybe more about the zones we race at or the fewer muscle groups being used. If you go by HR my zones are usually 10-15 bpm higher @ 7000ft than @ sea-level. So that shifts a whole zone: my z3 FEELS like z2 down in the lowlands.