Home General Training Discussions

Jan OS 2013 Week 2 - RUN Thread

Hi Jan OS 2013,

Congratulations on finishing week 1 of the OS. Use this thread to post your run workouts for week 2.

 The collective group has been doing a great job helping to answer questions and to encourage each other along. If you have not posted yet and are reading only- that is cool too. Some folks feel more comfortable that way. Just know we are here to help you achieve your goals. The power of the group is quite incredible.

Happy Running!!

Carrie

«134

Comments

  • I'm a little worried about the rTSS scores I had in the running sessions last week ... especially the sunday run which gave me a rTSS of >105 at a duration of 70min.
    Do you have the same experience or what are your rTSS scores?
  • @ Stefan, generally in the OS most folks don't pay too much attention to TSS. I keep a loose eye on weekly IF that tends to hang out in the 0.95 to 0.98 range (bike+run). I just checked and last year my weekly average run IF was in the 0.98-1.05 range (it is the 30' brick runs at faster than z4 that drive it up for me), weekly running TSS of around 300-350. I also keep an eye on the blue line on the PMC which ought to be climbing at all times. For me a typical 60' run with 4x mile repeats will end up at an IF of around 0.95.
  • Holy moly ... you just scared me a little looking at my todays IF of 0.84 image
  • Agree I pay no attention to anything except for my body-such as how it's feeling and if I'm hitting my paces and that's it. I respect the run wko's and try not to over do them. Much easier to set yourself up for an injury on the run vs pushing hard on the bike.
  • Reading these posts, I think it is time for me to learn some more detailed analysis techniques for my runs. Like Carl, I use RPE, and try to hit the targets in the written workout.
    Today went well. Made it through the main set, but had to cut the extra Z1/Z2 time short, for a total time of just 45min.
  • I just finished the first week of OS as a "Newbie"! I have a lot to learn and enjoying every minute.
  • Does today, Sunday run go in Wk 1 or 2?
  •  Never mind TSS -- I'm watching that TSB line. It's negative and dropping!

  • This week went well for me. Since I am doing a marathon hack, runs have been a bit longer than in the OS plan.
    Today was 10 with 4 x 5 minutes @ T, rest at E pace. Pacing was poor on the T intervals, finally nailed it on the last one.

    I am curious how and where people are mapping all the TSS stuff. Is it on Traning Peaks?
  • I use WKO but I know a number of folks load their data into Training Peaks
  •  I'm not really worrying about the pretty lines right now, because I don't think the amount of data (maybe 1.5mos) I have in WKO to this point is sufficient to draw conclusions. 

    I'm just data-driven. It works for me. I love seeing all those tables and charts. As soon as I'm done a run I scurry down to the pain cave to load the data into my "workout" (hooked up to the Computrainer) computer. Hit stop on Computrainer, and boom, click on TP Device Agent to get that data loading. A little compulsive, but that's how I "reward" myself after the workout. 

  • So I just wanted to confirm a couple posts I've read on here regarding the various run paces.



    The values listed for a given zone for a VDOT are maximum paces for that zone. So a strict z1 run is up to the z1 pace listed, and a z2 run is "anywhere in-between z1 and z2", and so on.



    Part of the reason I ask is because when I did this workout "Steady run as MP/Z2/Steady out, HMP/Z3/Mod-Hard back", that I didn't know if I shot myself in the foot trying to hold the max Z2 pace, then the max Z3 pace. By the time Z3 rolled around, I was pretty toasted since the paces are not that far off. I finished the workout within :5-10/mile of my prescribed paces, so that's good I guess.



    And my "day in/day out z1 pace" is usually 15-30 seconds/mile off what EN/McMillian/etc says it is.







     

  • Posted By Brandon Cantrell on 14 Jan 2013 04:10 PM

    So I just wanted to confirm a couple posts I've read on here regarding the various run paces.



    The values listed for a given zone for a VDOT are maximum paces for that zone. So a strict z1 run is up to the z1 pace listed, and a z2 run is "anywhere in-between z1 and z2", and so on.



    Part of the reason I ask is because when I did this workout "Steady run as MP/Z2/Steady out, HMP/Z3/Mod-Hard back", that I didn't know if I shot myself in the foot trying to hold the max Z2 pace, then the max Z3 pace. By the time Z3 rolled around, I was pretty toasted since the paces are not that far off. I finished the workout within :5-10/mile of my prescribed paces, so that's good I guess.



    And my "day in/day out z1 pace" is usually 15-30 seconds/mile off what EN/McMillian/etc says it is.

    Brandon - No, you didn't shoot yourself in the foot.  The paces are your targets. The Z2 out / Z3 back work is exactly that: work.  There will be times when you will be thinking evil, nasty thoughts towards Coach Patrick as you are working to hit those times and paces.  But it will totally pay off come race day.

     

  • Cool, that makes more sense as a target. I did have some choice thoughts, but felt good to get it done. image Was booking pretty good.

    The run workouts have been the biggest adjustment so far.
  • 30' of sprints in the pool. AquaJogger belt but AquaSprinter Chris. High knees, no sculling. ......

    cramped!


    20' of light jogging this evening, still very slight tenderness in calf. Will not try any pace work until there is ZERO tenderness in calf....for two weeks straight. So, looks like late Jan/early Feb before I pick it back up.

    At this point it feels like this.....
    Mid November to Jan- Run Block
    Beginning of Jan to Feb- now becomes an aggressive (but VERY enjoyable!) bike block
    then in Feb- maybe I'll get to even it out a bit?
  • Brandon - when I first joined, I really went through the same thing as you... "How come all my runs have this hard part in them?" It's a bit different doing all this MP/HMP stuff. You'll learn to really enjoy those EP runs with just some strides. :-)
  • Waiting to head out on my first real run since the Flu. We had the Vdot test scheduled for this morning at the track group we host but I was home with Madison who has the Flu. Can't hire a babysitter when your kid is sick. So Steve ran his 5K alone while our track peeps ran intervals- at 6am, 23 degrees with a headlamp on. He managed an 18:50. He is usually a 17:30 or less guy so he was happy to run as fast as he did given the conditions. He gets home as I am doing laundry to clean bedding of all the Flu germs and a pipe clogs between kitchen and laundry room and BURST- GUSHING and water everywhere. We ran around cleaning and sopping up water, snaking, unclogging and then putting our house back together. A total mess. That took 4 hours!!!! Shoot me now. I just want less drama in our life. No more sickness- no more mess.

    I will head out and just run. No plan for intervals unless I feel good. I'll report back.
  • @Carrie - That stinks!! So sorry to hear that you had a sick child and then to deal with flooding. Yuk.

    I hope your run was refreshing and relaxing.
  • Carrie - that sucks about your flooding and flu issues. Hope all is resolved soon and that you had a good run.

    Question about Wednesday's run: I'm doing the intermediate plan and so my workout is 3 x 1/2 mi (3') + 1 x 1mi @ TP. Prior run training has all been mileage based, and while I'm willing to make the switch to a time-based approach, I find it difficult/confusing when the written wko is mixed mileage and recovery time. Last Sunday I did the 1/2 mile interval and then did a 1/2 mile recovery instead of the prescribed time. At my pace, it was probably a little more than the stated recovery time. To me, it's easier to keep track of that way (1/2 mile fast(er), 1/2 mile recovery), but am I not getting the full training effect if the recovery is a little longer?
  • The idea behind the threshold runs is that you run hard, and then get only a short recovery rather than an equal length recovery. You will see 1-1 work/recovery once we get to the VO2 run sections. If the combination of distance and time really confuses you, you could (a) estimate how far you will run during the recovery section and convert it to a distance/distance workout (.5 miles run, .25 miles easy); or (b) figure out how long the work interval should take you and run for that amount of time instead and do it as a time/time workout (4 minutes run, 3 minutes easy) -- I think Matt Aaronson uses this second approach.



    But, if you have a GPS watch, setting up the distance/time workout is pretty easy. You can create workouts on the watch, or you can simply go to a screen that has the current lap time and lap distance displayed. On the work sections, run until the lap distance hits the prescribed amount, hit the lap button and run easy until the lap time hits the prescribed rest interval and hit the lap button again.

  • Had a decent time on the brick today, but am terrible at pacing. Just kept looking to slow my self down. Enjoyed this run!
  • THIS FLU killed my lungs!! First run back. Ran 5.7 miles( was shooting for 7 miles but saw a creepy guy on the trail ahead and flipped it). Got home and planned to add on to make it 7 miles but my lungs were toast. I started coughing and could not stop- like bronchospasm type cough. UUUGGHH. I felt amazing in my legs. Not sure how long full recovery will take with this illness but I better be prepared that it could take a while.

    avg pace 8:04/mile. Happy with that. OOHHHH MY LUNGS!!!! UUGGHHH!

    CC

  • @Dave: The problem with doing the 1/2 mile hard and then 1/2 mile recovery is that the recovery will be too long. You are correct about the full training effect:

    The goal of active recovery is to be able to do your next interval at the goal pace without getting complete recovery. You're trying to raise your LT, and by allowing your body to completely recover, this isn't going to stress your body optimally (teaching it to buffer the lactate more efficiently).

    OTOH, if you are running speed intervals, you do want at least 1:1 recovery if not more, because you are not as concerned about LT, but trying to maximize your speed. (not something that is done a lot of in EN, since the utility of it for our races is pretty low)

    While it can look funny, recovering in small circles or out and back (I'm assuming the 1/2 mile is a marked, measured distance which is why you are using this) for the prescribed time works. And using time for recovery helps to keep the recovery constant. When I've not had a track or GPS for intervals, I've done what Michael has suggested, and run for a set time at a set effort. It has actually been fairly accurate when I do it this way (the pain of having run far too many intervals in my life)
  • brick run, post FTP work on the bike.

    but, brick run was 30' of deep water running (DWR)

    calf was very tender today after yesterday's 15' run on land.
  • Thanks all for the explanation on tomorrow's wko. I'll be on the treadmill, so I'm going to give the distance/time mix a try via a programmed workout on my garmin. Big thanks to Joe Matchette for setting those up for this week's workouts!
  • How much slower should the active recovery be between intervals? I tried slowing 1 min/mile, but I'm having a hard time making the 3-4 intervals. Is it better to slow active recovery to maintain pace of intervals, slow the pace ofintervals down to make the number of intervals, or some combo I haven't thought of? Ps couch to OS so I know some of this is to be expected.
  • When I'm doing Z4/Z5 intervals I'm walking for about 45-60sec and start then very slow jogging but with increasing speed to the end of the recovery time so I end up a little bit slower EP in the end.

    I will 4 sure need another pacing-device than my Edge500 because today I ran the 2xZ4 intervals much too hard/fast ...
  • Got the workout done on the mill. Hit all paces. Later gater.
  • Ran last night at 6 and this morning at 6:15. Wish I could have kept them 24 hrs apart, but hit all my times. Did the 10' WU with 4x30" strides, then got the MS in with and easy recovery cooldown after. Just under 55' for 6.25 miles.

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/...xOao.email

Sign In or Register to comment.