So what do you think of Lance Armstrong now.
Well Lance Armstrong confessed. I always supported him through the " witch hunt " as I tended to believe his story. He was the most drug tested athlete, as that was said.
He admitted to doping. The field of riders in the day all doped.
SO it can be said he was the fastest rider back in the day all doped up ?
What do you do with your yellow wrist band now?
In your own head where do you slot him now?
I like the Armstrong foundation cause, who would not support cancer research/ patients, I have a hard time thinking about supporting it now because he lives off some of the funds for his own purposes. LA needs to get a job like the rest of us mere mortals.
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I believe people should be judged by the content of their character.
Yes, they were all doping. Yes, this means he was probably the best.
He also lied until there was absolutely nothing left to lose by being honest.
The apology is hollow, well beyond "day late dollar short".
I lost my yellow band a long time ago.
The good news is that there are many athletes in tri, AG and pro, men and women, who I could encourage my kids to look up to.
Lance isn't one of them.
I guess I'm the only one that is hoping he blows all of the cycling governing bodies apart. Clearly the UCI was complicit in all of this... This was clearly something wrong with the sport and it went very deep with all of the top riders of the era. I would guess if you were a Senior person in the UCI or any other cycling governing body or organization, I would be very nervous right now waiting for this Thursday "interview" with Oprah.
Heck, maybe LA will be humble and sorry and go out quietly, but somehow, I don't think he has that in him. If he's finally going to admit what he did, I'll be surprised if he doesn't take down the establishment with him... Probably long overdue.
Joanne and I have been invited to an Oprah Viewing Party on Thursday. Joanne is baking cookies, I'll bring some craft beers, and she will drive me home.
IMO the people with the clenched sphincters right now are all the people involved in US Postal back in the day. Being on the wrong side of the 'vs' if and when the US DOJ joins Floyd Landis' whistleblower/False Claims Act case seeking ~ $100MM in damages will not be fun at all. Bruyneel, and his whole investor group are going to be in the soup. Add to that the UCI and its leadership over the past decade. If the reports are true that LA will terstify to USADA and WADA about all of it (except against riders), then all team managers, owners, investors, doctors and sponsors from the mid 90s onward are in a tough spot.
Will be interesting and in many ways sad to watch it all play out. The worst is that I suspect LA doesn't even really care about saving anyone other than himself in all of this ...
He also created a fantastic organization which I continue to support. If you have had cancer, or a love one has had it, you understand how much support and motivation Livestrong provides. In addition they have fantastic site which provides outstanding guidance and motivation to all who go there, on nutrition, exercise etc., it is not just for cancer caregivers anymore.
I have met him and he is very personable and friendly and genuinely cares about cancer patients, care givers and their families.
At this point, he is a man with his back against the wall who is trying to rescue of his life what can be rescued. I want to hear his motives first before making a true judgement, but the admiration I once had has definitely been reduced substantially.
Here's how I feel about Lance:
BOOM
Sure - he was the best of the best, and everyone was cheating. So to me it's a level playing field again, and I honestly consider cheating to be a different argument. So it comes down to character - he only fessed up when things got to be desperate. To me, that is a hollow apology because its underpinning reasons are based on falsehood.
However, Livestrong is still a worthwhile foundation that does good things. So he's got that over Roger Clemens..
Do I think he doped, sure. Do I want him in triathlon, from a sporting side no, from a marketing side, yes. At the end of the day, there are still multiple Lance v Jans videos in my pain cave Youtube playlist. Doping or not, he got up dem hills crazy fast.
I don't like that Lance doped. I admired him (like most, I suppose). I even wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. I could live with some of his reputation as a bully in the sense that I knew he was also pretty driven for himself...though it didn't thrill me. I parsed many of his statements as "non-denial denials" that left room for him having doped. Things like "I've never failed a test" and even some of his other statements about what he didn't do left open plenty of illegal things that he might have done.
But the net of lies makes it very difficult to believe much of what he says any more. Which is really too bad...because whatever you think of all the other stuff, he was (is) pretty darn awesome, and probably would have been near the same place if the sport had been clean.
@ Roy: Per the Oprah Winfrey Network (which for the record, i've never watched!), the interview will be streamed LIVE on their website:
http://www.oprah.com/own-oprahs-nex...xt-Chapter
also note that due to its length the interview will be broadcast in TWO parts, Thursday and Friday 9 PM
On the other hand, cycling appears to have been very dirty at the time. So, I view him like Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens (who I would have put in the Hall of Fame if I had a vote), athletes who excelled at a time when a lot of people were cheating.
Cheaters bother me. All cheaters - tax cheats, athletic cheats. I don't like Bonds, Sosa, McGuire and those guys. The notion that "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" is anathema to me.
A true hero would have realized everyone was cheating and brought the house down, NOT joined in with them and done it better. Yes, there are unicorns and rainbows in my world.
The reason Lance is a dbag, however, is not that he cheated. It is how he treated anyone who suggested that he cheated. I'm thinking about Greg LeMond in particular. Armstrong virtually destroyed his life. Lemond? HE is the true cycling hero. Screw Lance Armstrong. Lance Armstrong is a pathetic cheating sack of shit.
How do we know that Lemond was clean?
I'm trying to think through a 2-stage EN Team Indoor Trainer TT challenge to coincide with the broadcast. Something like "riding starts at beginning of broadcast, Episode 1, and finishes at moment of signoff, episode 2. Greatest Distance covered over two stages is our TT winner."
Additional primes for higest mileage / sprint bonuses for :
-moment of first tears shed
-first use of the word 'Landis'
-First use of the word 'courage'
-First moment of Oprah nodding understandingly, arms crossed
I miss drinking games.
But, I do have a problem with the other aspects of this. This Mafia/Mob/Bully/Threatster mentality that is being reported, and the HUGE Open Book of Innocence that he sold us....the books, the commercials, etc. I would think that he could have dominated they way he did and then think twice about self promotion. I mean, his success would have been his own promotion. But, like always, rational thoughts go out the window at that level of arrogance.
And, like Al said, the whole story means nothing to me anymore.
You know what, now that I'm thinking about it.....one of my group rides is with a very successful youth development squad. Ralph starts these kids riding at about age 10. By 12, they're hanging on our 50 milers of moderate pace. I've been riding with him for several years now and I have NEVER thought to ask him what he tells these kids about this stuff. They're good, too. One just signed with UHC, for example. I know he teaches them everything from winning sprints to how to take the fall, but I've never even thought that these kids would need to be educated on this. Wow, naive, innocent kiddos. Hope they stay that way.
I wanted to come back to this thread to point this out as another reason why I still don't like him. Cheating is one thing (I don't care much, as I said before), lying is another - but even that I can understand to a certain extent (though he pushed those boundaries). If he wasn't such an ass to those who provided all the evidence tha the cheated, I might feel a tad bit of sympathy for him in a wrong place, wrong time kind of way.
ONe thing that makes people stand out in a crowd, are those that are willing to go against the grain and stand on what they believe is right. LA, just like all the other riders, had a choice about doping at some point in his career. He made his, ran with it 100% until he couldn't anymore. His upbringing, emotional drive and personal goals all helped set up that decision, for sure. But LA could've made a different choice. He may never have gained the fame he achieved by winning so much, but if he put the same effort into cleaning up the sport as did in accepting the status quo, coercing teammates and winning races, he probably could've made a great difference in the other direction. Think if he had won just one big race as a clean rider against all the dopers, as a cancer survivor no less - that would've been some good leverage and PR to work with. Instead he will be an asterik - just like Bond, Clemens, etc. A man of great talent, but another who couldn't bear the consequences of doing the right thing.
I never had a yellow bracelet - and - thinking about it now - LA may have survived cancer and created a positive foundation - but it seems to me, based on his own actions, he didn't learn much from his own cancer fight, which really makes for a shallow frontman.
http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2009/02/afternoon_aweso_77.html
I am and will remain a 100% supporter of Lance Armstrong.
I offer this...
sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-opr...49439.html
That I find one of the most disappointing things about this entire case. To dope, fine, to lie about it, fine. But to consistently dope after getting cancer is just plain stupid. What kind of message is that sending to the world...
I was a huge supporter of Lance. He is talented (even without Performance Enhancing Drugs). Check out him as a 15 year old racing against Dave Scott and Mark Allen, I believe, on YouTube. Up and coming star....
Following him in the Tours was so exciting.
And, for years, watching him on TV deny taking EPO, etc. I completely believed him. Probably because he seemed so believable. He appeared scandalized by the accusations made against him and he vilified those who questioned and/or spoke out against him.
Now the truth. What I see now is a narcissist. He is a liar and who, while having done great things with the LiveStrong Foundation, is a person with questionable character. He tweeted a picture of himself not long ago lounging in his home in front of his 7 Tour de France jerseys. The dude's shameless.
How can I parents my teenage kids about honesty, not lying about "where you were last night" and support this guy?Lance wants what Lance wants. And he's hoping to get it. He wants to race in triathlons again. He wants to hopefully gain back some sponsors. Maybe he wants to not be on 2012's Biggest Loser List (no, not the show).
Time for someone new. Bye Lance. And I really hope Rev 3 does not allow him to race with them.
Continue to do the good work in the oncology field. Stay there.
You have all replied overwhelmingly against his behavior. I agree he certainly is not a roll model anymore and has fallen out of grace with 99% of us.
The next two days should be interesting when he is scheduled to be on the O show. Let the drama continue....
Man you are all pretty fickle....did he fake cancer?...do you think he was doping when he finished 5th in his first IM back in the game?....do you think with all the EPO you can handle you could win 7 tour titles?....
I for one have no problem with what Lance did during his competitive days in cylcing....I believe they were the de facto rules of the road...and the primary people responsible for governing behavior were complicit ...turned a blind eye...and may have in fact encouraged it.....
I do have some consternation for his supposed "destroying" others....but only a little; in my world he has done far more for people than "destroyed"....The self-righteous cyclists who have come out and called his apologies self-serving...well duh?! ...most were confessed or caught dopers...those that confessed...did it for their own self serving purposes...and those that were caught and confessed or blew the whistle were doing the same.......so I say bugger off.
I ask ...who are your idols? and do you believe (as we all do) that they are above reproach?....
As my favorite TV personality is fond of say....Everyone Lies....Everyone.
I chose to not support a man who, by all accounts, is a sociopathic, narcisistic, DB asshat.
@Joseph -
I hear your point.
There is all kinds of research and evidence that most people lie.
The variation is in the degree to which people will take it.
Lance did not fake cancer, although it is not impossible that he brought it on with PEDs.
Lance did win a lot of races, and PEDs can not come close to accounting for that.
To win those titles took talent, skill, relentless training, relentless racing, grit...
Lance is not responsible for the culture of corruption in cycling.
I do not intend to indicate that I have never been dishonest. I can not say with any certainty that, had I been blessed with the talent and opportunity, I would not have injected along with the big boys. I do not advocate that we view Lance Armstrong as though we are morally superior, nor do I intend to cast stones.
That said, I am unclear where Lance Armstrong would draw a line - any line - based on principle. I can say with certainty that I would have come clean a long time ago, despite the cost, and that I would have not thrown people under the bus, because at some point I would not have been able to stomach my own hypocrisy. The capacity and temptation to lie lives within us all. However, I do not admire, nor do I encourage my kids to admire cheating, lying, stealing, people misrepresenting themselves or their achievements.
When people in visible positions lie and cheat, it weakens our society to the degree that it normalizes lying and cheating. Integrity is something we aspire to as much as we aspire to athletic achievement. We hold it up for ourselves and our kids because we believe in it. And we believe that principles are more important than coming in first.
There are many people in the world to admire. They are few and far between in professional sports, possibly because of the money involved, more likely because of the "win-at-any-cost" culture that we ask for through our attendance. From what I know, Lance Armstrong is not an admirable character.
Russel...I have no serious disagreements with you and I heartily bemoan the fact that we as a society have already 'normalized lying and cheating"...
People are free to draw their own conclusions about Lance...from what information they think know...my conclusion differs...I won't argure it further....c'est la vie.